Roof Rack + Snorkel = Overland?

[wayoflife]

According to the author of that article, any lift over about 2" is too much because it supposedly weakens the load-bearing capability of the vehicle itself while any tire larger than about 33"--especially if they're wider than, say 235mm could cause rubbing in the fender wells and limit the turning radius of the vehicle.

and this all seems just so crazy to me. loading up a stock JK with a roof rack, super heavy tent and a ton of gear will weaken the load-bearing capabilities of a stock vehicle and put an enormous strain on its drive train components. as far as rubbing of the fender wells go, he must be referring to vehicles other than a JK but even still, aftermarket wheels with proper back spacing will address that minor concern.

He also seems to either not know or ignore the capabilities of today's trail tires to run at 0psi on the trails with little to no damage to the tires themselves while emphasizing that every rig should have some form of tire inflation pump, acknowledging the need on occasion to reduce tire pressure for some of the more technical aspects of a trip. I, personally, don't consider 4" extreme when I see Jeeps and trucks riding as much as 12" of lift and still driving on the highways.

and, that's my point as well. what one can imagine is nice but, you can learn a lot more from real life expereince.

Addendum: I thought the Rubicon was the only #9 trail... guess I was wrong. It's the only #10 trail?

trail ratings are subjective to the people to rate them. the rubicon is NOT what i would consider a 9 or 10 on a scale of 1-10. more like a 6-7 at most and maybe a 10 if you were to take on specific obstacles like the soup bowl or the little sluice.

[mmccurdy]

but, based on what? if you were to tell me that this guy actually has years of experience running rigs that were significantly more modified and is now using the knowledge he's gained from that to base his so called pratical reasons, i might be more receptive to his opinions on the matter. however, it would appear that his explicit choices are not based on fact or experience but rather, imagined threats. granted, i don't know this guy from adam so, maybe i'm wrong here.

The fact that he's been able to get to all the places he's been without running a big build is exactly the point I'm trying to make. There are very few places you really can't go with even a stock Rubicon and a winch.

i've wheeled stock, mildly built, well built and highly built JK's and can tell you with out a doubt, as is, moby is more reliable today than it's ever been. it is way more comfortable getting there, way more stable and therefore, way more safe or, at least in my opinion. with the exception of high cost, i'm not sure where there tradeoff is.

Sure, but your personal experience with Moby is based on wheeling it way harder than would be required for "overland" wheeling, so the fact that it's more reliable for you is not surprising, since you've built it up to serve that purpose. Cost is a huge factor in all this, of course, and probably even the most compelling one for the "if you don't need it, why run it?" argument.

Beyond that, you don't need tons of experience personally running big lifts and tires to see the theoretical down-sides -- it's mostly just physics. Bigger tires, heavier axles, and decorative bumpers means more mass that has to be stopped, turned, and hauled over any obstacles. I'm not sure I completely see the "bigger contact patch = bad" argument personally, but whatever. That said, I think in practice these down-sides can be mitigated almost completely. That's where the real-world experience does come in. Having D60-sized brakes, for example, seems like a good strategy for stopping the 40's attached to them. Likewise, people act like if you run a roof tent your rig will instantly flip over, tumble down a ravine, and you'll die a horrible death. I can tell you from real-world experience that's absolutely true.

[wayoflife]

The fact that he's been able to get to all the places he's been without running a big build is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

hmmm, i guess i need to take some time to see where all he's been.

There are very few places you really can't go with even a stock Rubicon and a winch.

maybe, but that would be more than i would prefer. and again, it doesn't take much to make even the easiest destinations, one of those few places.

Sure, but your personal experience with Moby is based on wheeling it way harder than would be required for "overland" wheeling, so the fact that it's more reliable for you is not surprising, since you've built it up to serve that purpose. Cost is a huge factor in all this, of course, and probably even the most compelling one for the "if you don't need it, why run it?" argument.

well, if this is all about cost, i definitely see that as a valid argument. what i find funny is that a lot of this thread getting started was because of a conversation i was having with some guys who were trying to justify the need to buy over priced control arm relocation brackets and dual rate springs claiming, that when it came to doing overland builds right, cost shouldn't be a factor. but, i know this isn't the case with you.

Beyond that, you don't need tons of experience personally running big lifts and tires to see the theoretical down-sides -- it's mostly just physics. Bigger tires, heavier axles, and decorative bumpers means more mass that has to be stopped, turned, and hauled over any obstacles.

actually, big heavy axles and big heavy tires provide great "unsprung" weight and are a huge benefit in lowering your COG and providing stability. of course, the bigger axles will also be able to take the strain of moving that extra weight and so much more.

Likewise, people act like if you run a roof tent your rig will instantly flip over, tumble down a ravine, and you'll die a horrible death. I can tell you from real-world experience that's absolutely true.

you know i'm just razzin ya

[piginajeep]

. Likewise, people act like if you run a roof tent your rig will instantly flip over, tumble down a ravine, and you'll die a horrible death. I can tell you from real-world experience that's absolutely true.

I think its more dangerous when your drinking and trying to get into the roof top tent

[mmccurdy]

I think its more dangerous when your drinking and trying to get into the roof top tent

Yep, it's a problem. That's why I recommend you always travel with a buddy or two who can physically hoist you up there if needed.

[wayoflife]

I think its more dangerous when your drinking and trying to get into the roof top tent

[piginajeep]

Yep, it's a problem. That's why I recommend you always travel with a buddy or two who can physically hoist you up there if needed.

[wayoflife]

So, I've asked this before and I feel like it needs to be asked again, even if money is an issue, why wouldn't you want to make it a priority to install better components that have proven themselves to be superior to OEM. I mean, the factory front axle housing whether it be a Dana 30 or 44 really isn't that great. The end forgings are weak and prone to bend, the tubes are thin and there have clearly been examples of where they've broken even on stock setups, the ball joints are un-greasable and use plastic components that tend to fail prematurely and the shafts have yokes that only use C-clips. To me, investing in something like a Dynatrac Pro Rock 44 with chromoly shafts and Pro Steer ball joints is a worthy investment and one that will help ensure you will not suffer needless breakdowns on the trail.

As far as drive shafts go, the ones that come from the factory work well enough but, if you lift your Jeep at all, the front shaft will come into contact with your automatic transmission sump pan, tear off the slip shaft boot and will eventually cause a transmission leak. Of cousre, the greater angle that it gets placed in puts the CV boot in a constant state of pinch and, over time causes it to fail and that ultimately leads to the failure of the joint itself. Along those lines, Rzeppa joints aren't exactly something you can find at your local Napa autoparts store or even something that most local drive line shops can work on. 1310 u-joints can be found just about anywhere, for cheap and a standard u-joint style drive shaft is definitely something that you can have worked on anywhere. Of course, for those who will actually take the time to regear, all this is to say nothing about things like how really really small a 5.13 pinion is on a Dana 30 or 5.38 is on a Dana 44.

Even if you were to run just 33" or 35", for all the weight "overland" types likes to carry, I just don't understand why drivetrain upgrades never even make it onto the list of things you should invest in. Sure, things like limb risers and a Snow Peak kitchen set are nice and all but, to me, they would fall more under the category of "if you don't need it, why get it". But, that's just me.

[GCM 2]

Re-reading thru this thread, I have now lost all interest in offroading.

[wayoflife]

Re-reading thru this thread, I have now lost all interest in offroading.

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