CONCRETE ARROW QUEST : Search for Transcontinental Airway Beacons

DELIVERANCE

Member
SWEET!! Great find and thank you for sharing what you found here. Were these in Colorado or in another state like Wyoming?

Actually I recently moved. My wife wanted to move back where she grew up and near her family so a couple months ago I brought my family to Idaho. That's where I found these arrows. Im a bit bummed though. I tracked these arrows down after noticing one of the arrows near a clients jobsite on Google Earth. Then today I found that the locations were already pin pointed on one of the websites that had a story about the postal beacons. So I guess they've already been discovered! Lol. But it was fun tracking them down. I had a good time. It's a good adventure. And I found out that I missed one in that same general area so I still get to go back and find one more. :)


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Navigating by those from the air had to suck in bad weather, and I would have hated to be the one who had to keep the snow off of them. Lol

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These were used only in good weather. Strictly visual navigation aids. Eventually radio beams were added for bad weather. We are still using this system today although it is slowly being phased out in favor of GPS
 
Not as often as you would think. They were very adept at both dead reckoning and weather forecasting. These beacons were farely close together as well. I think it's this thread that has a link to the whole system on a google map. My dad was a controller in the 70s and they still had some operational here in Florida. Personally I'm glad we use VORs now instead of the light beacons. They are how I learned to navigate, it's kinda sad to see them get phased out for GPS. The old fashioned pilots definitely had more skills than today. Without them they never would have made it.
 

Draconianwinter

New member
Not as often as you would think. They were very adept at both dead reckoning and weather forecasting. These beacons were farely close together as well. I think it's this thread that has a link to the whole system on a google map. My dad was a controller in the 70s and they still had some operational here in Florida. Personally I'm glad we use VORs now instead of the light beacons. They are how I learned to navigate, it's kinda sad to see them get phased out for GPS. The old fashioned pilots definitely had more skills than today. Without them they never would have made it.
Cool. And yeah but look at sailors too and how they used to navigate. Most people couldn't even begin if they ate given a chart and shown were to go if not for GPS navigation these days. I used to be able to read charts and plot courses going on just charts and stars. That was years ago though, back when I was a kid and lived on a boat. One the guys that also lived at the socks taught me how to do that. It was really fun to learn. Wish I had kept it in practice.

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Draconianwinter

New member
Yeah I only have the vaguest of notions on how to shoot the stars but pilots used to do it while flying. Crazy to think about.
Yeah it took me a while to learn. Thinking back on things and how things are going in this world I am beginning to think I should have kept better track of my sextant and kept up with practicing how to do that lol

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Draconianwinter

New member
Talking about the older pilot generations though. I remember seeing a documentary on pilots from WWI and WWII, and one of them had such good eyesight that they literally had to measure his seeing distance with radar. He could spot enemy plans several miles out and long before anyone else could see them without taking them with a radar

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Chris99

New member
Yeah it took me a while to learn. Thinking back on things and how things are going in this world I am beginning to think I should have kept better track of my sextant and kept up with practicing how to do that lol

You can still get one on Amazon. I occasionally think about getting one just to figure out how they work. I don't because it would most likely just end up on a shelf somewhere.


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Gadget

Caught the Bug
Flying by GPS has taken some of the challenge out of navigating, during my 135 check ride last year the examiner pulled out a chart and had me identify the different airspace and symbols on it, during the check ride I took last week the only chart we used was an RNAV approach plate. The old ways sadly are fading.


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wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
These were used only in good weather. Strictly visual navigation aids...

Actually, this is not correct at all. In order to make the Transcontinental Air Mail service a success, pilots were required to fly at night AND in inclement weather. In fact, at the threat of congress cutting funds for the program, the first night time flight spanning Omaha to Chicago was done on February 21, 1921 by Jack Knight and in one of the worst snow storms recorded. Back then, there weren't any beacons established and so post office workers along the route parked their cars every 15 miles and left their headlights on to help show him the way. It's really an amazing story! :yup:
 
Actually, this is not correct at all. In order to make the Transcontinental Air Mail service a success, pilots were required to fly at night AND in inclement weather. In fact, at the threat of congress cutting funds for the program, the first night time flight spanning Omaha to Chicago was done on February 21, 1921 by Jack Knight and in one of the worst snow storms recorded. Back then, there weren't any beacons established and so post office workers along the route parked their cars every 15 miles and left their headlights on to help show him the way. It's really an amazing story! :yup:

Sorry as a pilot when I said good weather I meant Visual Flight Rules(VFR) meaning you could still see. I simply meant they wouldn't be used if you were in the clouds or Instrument Meterolocical Conditions (IMC) the whole time. What we consider good weather is different than most people. Rain or snow not a big deal if we can see through it. Beacons will show a long way in those conditions or at night. Fog or low lying clouds and these beacons are useless and most planes would have been grounded back then anyway. Sorry for the confusion I created.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry as a pilot when I said good weather I meant Visual Flight Rules(VFR) meaning you could still see. I simply meant they wouldn't be used if you were in the clouds or Instrument Meterolocical Conditions (IMC) the whole time. What we consider good weather is different than most people. Rain or snow not a big deal if we can see through it. Beacons will show a long way in those conditions or at night. Fog or low lying clouds and these beacons are useless and most planes would have been grounded back then anyway. Sorry for the confusion I created.

LOL!! It's all good. I just wanted to make sure others understood just how tough these guys were. When Jack Knight landed, they pulled the mail out of his plane and the proceed to cut him out as his flight jacket had frozen to the seat. Crashes were very common as was the need to make multiple landings in a stretch just to make adjustments to their engines. Of course, the pilots called them "landings" but by all accounts, many of them would have been considered crashes by today's standards. Still, they had a 98% success rate in the delivery of mail, in the dark, in an open cockpit and without radios or GPS. :yup:
 

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
LOL!! It's all good. I just wanted to make sure others understood just how tough these guys were. When Jack Knight landed, they pulled the mail out of his plane and the proceed to cut him out as his flight jacket had frozen to the seat. Crashes were very common as was the need to make multiple landings in a stretch just to make adjustments to their engines. Of course, the pilots called them "landings" but by all accounts, many of them would have been considered crashes by today's standards. Still, they had a 98% success rate in the delivery of mail, in the dark, in an open cockpit and without radios or GPS. :yup:

In the dark, cold, open cockpit, no radios. Sounds like one of your runs when my CB goes out and it was supposed to be a day trip. :bleh:


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Yeah we never crash, we may make a forced or off field landing but never crash ;) They had a ton of skill and were a little crazy but, definitely weren't the insane cowboys of the movies.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah we never crash, we may make a forced or off field landing but never crash ;)

"We"? As in, you were a Transcontinental Airmail Pilot?? I honestly didn't think any of you were still alive - mad props to you for what you did way back then! :thumb:

They had a ton of skill and were a little crazy but, definitely weren't the insane cowboys of the movies.

Don't know of any movies made about these pilots but I'd sure love to see one if you can recommend one. I guess we all have our own idea of what an insane cowboy might be. Some of the stories I've read about you guys like Hal Collison, Slim Luis and Jack Knight sure seem a bit insane to me especially when some of these guys had to fly over land they've never flown over before, at night, in the snow, following headlights of cars parked along the railroad and using map a guy gave to you at the last stop. :crazyeyes:
 
"We"? As in, you were a Transcontinental Airmail Pilot?? I honestly didn't think any of you were still alive - mad props to you for what you did way back then! :thumb:

I meant pilots in general. I know guys that won't use the word ever because they consider it bad juju

Don't know of any movies made about these pilots but I'd sure love to see one if you can recommend one. I guess we all have our own idea of what an insane cowboy might be. Some of the stories I've read about you guys like Hal Collison, Slim Luis and Jack Knight sure seem a bit insane to me especially when some of these guys had to fly over land they've never flown over before, at night, in the snow, following headlights of cars parked along the railroad and using map a guy gave to you at the last stop. :crazyeyes:

Airmail by John Ford from 1932 is good if you can find it. Not about airmail pilots but Howard Hughes's Hell's Angels is really good as well. They seem that way but they were dedicated professionals that took considered risks.
 
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