Suspension help Please- Which Long Arm????

Vettethret

Vettethret

Member
So I am really wanting to start getting off road. You can see from my sig I am running a big lift (Rock Krawler 5.5") which netted me just over six inches of lift. I have never really been able to get the on road ride of my rig dialed in. I have had my Fox Resi's re-valved twice. The best way to describe the ride when going over bumps is as if you were sitting on a big block of Jell-O and somebody shook it. My rig oscillates over even smaller bumps. Its not terrible, but enough to bother me into getting long arms. I have been told by more than one shop I am running way to big of a lift to be running anything less than Long Arms.

M question is this- Since I have a complete Rock Krawler kit now, should I go with the Rock Krawler JK Triple Threat Long Arm Upgrade with 3-4 link or another manufactures' long arms? I've done a search and cant find much about the RK long Arm triple threat. I really would like a smoother more stable ride on road at this point. Next year I am cutting my fenders and going 40's so I am not looking to downgrade to shorter springs. Any suggestions or opinions on RK stuff?
 
N

NV-REX

New member
I have the 3.5" RK long travel on a 4dr JK Rubi with 35's and Fox res shocks. Its my daily driver as well. It handles like a dream on and off road. Nothing but good things to say about it.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Vettethret said:
So I am really wanting to start getting off road. You can see from my sig I am running a big lift (Rock Krawler 5.5") which netted me just over six inches of lift. I have never really been able to get the on road ride of my rig dialed in. I have had my Fox Resi's re-valved twice. The best way to describe the ride when going over bumps is as if you were sitting on a big block of Jell-O and somebody shook it. My rig oscillates over even smaller bumps. Its not terrible, but enough to bother me into getting long arms. I have been told by more than one shop I am running way to big of a lift to be running anything less than Long Arms.

M question is this- Since I have a complete Rock Krawler kit now, should I go with the Rock Krawler JK Triple Threat Long Arm Upgrade with 3-4 link or another manufactures' long arms? I've done a search and cant find much about the RK long Arm triple threat. I really would like a smoother more stable ride on road at this point. Next year I am cutting my fenders and going 40's so I am not looking to downgrade to shorter springs. Any suggestions or opinions on RK stuff?
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The problem with your ride is two fold. One, you really are sitting WAY TOO TALL for short arms and two, a majority of ride quality comes from your springs, NOT your shocks. A lot of people who are honest with themselves and prefer a softer ride will tell you that the RK coils really aren't anything to write home about:

http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?12243-Rides-like-a-tank-RK-3-5

Changing out your springs to something a little shorter and a little softer alone will provide you with a much better ride. If it were me, I might try going this route before spending a ton of money on a new long arm kit which would require you to cut off all your brackets and install new ones in order to make them work.
 
Vettethret

Vettethret

Member
wayoflife said:
The problem with your ride is two fold. One, you really are sitting WAY TOO TALL for short arms and two, a majority of ride quality comes from your springs, NOT your shocks. A lot of people who are honest with themselves and prefer a softer ride will tell you that the RK coils really aren't anything to write home about:

http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?12243-Rides-like-a-tank-RK-3-5

Changing out your springs to something a little shorter and a little softer alone will provide you with a much better ride. If it were me, I might try going this route before spending a ton of money on a new long arm kit which would require you to cut off all your brackets and install new ones in order to make them work.
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SHIT!! I was afraid of that! Being that I am moving up to 40's, for that sake I cant move down in lift height. Believe me, If I didn't need/want this amount of lift, I definitely would have already switched to EVO's plush ride in week 2.. In hind sight, I built this thing all wrong. If I had to do it over I would have gotten 20x10 slabs and Evo's bolt on Coil overs (Which in all reality I will probably do but it will take a year or so).

If a year down the road I do switch to the EVO bolt on coil overs, being that I want to do long arms regardless of lift, would you go with the RK long arms with the 3 link (In other words do you like their long arm set up)? I plan on keeping the same lift height when I do switch to coil overs and since I am keeping the same height, I think it makes sense to start with the long Arms before the Coil Overs, so I can maybe get some benefit out of them now with the RK coils until I do switch over to Coil overs?.
 
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Jiffy05

Jiffy05

New member
I don't think you need that much lift just to run 40's. I believe you can run that size tire with 4.5" lift.
 
10frank9

10frank9

Web Wheeler
Jiffy05 said:
I don't think you need that much lift just to run 40's. I believe you can run that size tire with 4.5" lift.
Click to expand...

This is what I believe Eddie runs on Moby (His white 4-door Jeep) and does so just fine with flat fenders. :thumb:
 
Vettethret

Vettethret

Member
Jiffy05 said:
I don't think you need that much lift just to run 40's. I believe you can run that size tire with 4.5" lift.
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Understood, but how many 4.5" lifts actually give you 4.5" of lift? Most will give you 5+. I know Moby Runs Coil overs as well so I don't know what he's got it set at. Personally, I have always liked taller lifts, which unless my thinking is wrong, is a good reason for long arms. My main curiosity is if I should stick with the RK triple threat LA or go with another manufacturer.
 
Canvas JK

Canvas JK

-
Well you must ask yourself how much are you wanting to spend?

Rock Krawler X Factor Plus Long arm upgrade is $1799.00 which is the 3 link front and rear.
Rock Krawler Triple Threat Long Arm upgrade is $1999.00 which is the 3 link front and 4 link rear.
EVO Extreme High Clearance Long Arm kit is $2299.99, which I believe Eddie is running with the EVO Double Throwdown Coilovers
EVO Double D bolt on Long Arm upgrade is $2299.99 which can be run with coilovers.
EVO 4 inch plush ride coils are $379.98 for the set of front and rear coils.

There is not too much of a price difference from the Triple Threat and EVO's long arm upgrade.

I believe if you are running 40's with cut fenders the limiting factor at full stuff will be the settings on your bump stops, which can be adjusted.

Again this is from my research so you may find something else which is more to your liking.

R/
Will
 
cozdude

cozdude

Guy with a Red 2-Door
I would go with a 4 link set up like what EVO has and stay away from a 3 link. If you look at what happened at this years jkx there were a few control arm breaks. The 3 link set up that broke took forever to fix Eddie said and one of the guys on here also had a break on his 4 link (stock arms) and didn't even know till he got home. As Eddie said before the 4 link is better cause if one arm fails you have 3 more to hold the axel in place. If one of the 3 links breaks you SOL.

Stay with a 4 link and you will be happier in the end.



Sent from my iPhone
 
bl17z90

bl17z90

New member
cozdude said:
I would go with a 4 link set up like what EVO has and stay away from a 3 link. If you look at what happened at this years jkx there were a few control arm breaks. The 3 link set up that broke took forever to fix Eddie said and one of the guys on here also had a break on his 4 link (stock arms) and didn't even know till he got home. As Eddie said before the 4 link is better cause if one arm fails you have 3 more to hold the axel in place. If one of the 3 links breaks you SOL.

Stay with a 4 link and you will be happier in the end.



Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...

Not to be "that guy" but I'm pretty sure the stock setup is actually a 5 link system as it counts the track bar. A 4 link setup is only 4 control arms with brackets mounted in such a way that the control arms keep the axle centered. I have no idea how a 3 link setup would work.


Everything I said could be totally wrong so who knows :crazyeyes:



But whether I have the terms right or not you would do well to stay with 4 arms and a track bar as that is much safter and with the right joints will still allow for big flex.
 
noroad

noroad

New member
bl17z90 said:
Not to be "that guy" but I'm pretty sure the stock setup is actually a 5 link system as it counts the track bar. A 4 link setup is only 4 control arms with brackets mounted in such a way that the control arms keep the axle centered. I have no idea how a 3 link setup would work.


Everything I said could be totally wrong so who knows :crazyeyes:



But whether I have the terms right or not you would do well to stay with 4 arms and a track bar as that is much safter and with the right joints will still allow for big flex.
Click to expand...

I do not think that the track bar counts as it only keeps the axle center to the body, by 4 link it is just the control arms and i still have a track bar on my 4 link for that reason on keeping the axle centered. I could be wrong but i really dont think it counts at all.
 
cozdude

cozdude

Guy with a Red 2-Door
bl17z90 said:
Not to be "that guy" but I'm pretty sure the stock setup is actually a 5 link system as it counts the track bar. A 4 link setup is only 4 control arms with brackets mounted in such a way that the control arms keep the axle centered. I have no idea how a 3 link setup would work.


Everything I said could be totally wrong so who knows :crazyeyes:



But whether I have the terms right or not you would do well to stay with 4 arms and a track bar as that is much safter and with the right joints will still allow for big flex.
Click to expand...

noroad said:
I do not think that the track bar counts as it only keeps the axle center to the body, by 4 link it is just the control arms and i still have a track bar on my 4 link for that reason on keeping the axle centered. I could be wrong but i really dont think it counts at all.
Click to expand...


from what i just read (a little google research) it is a 4 link + trackbar so we are all right in a way. shall we call it a 4 1/2 link set up then? :idontknow::cheesy:

the track bar keeps it centered side to side while the arms keep it centered ,and at the right angle, front to back. a set up link the EVO Lever (from my understanding) makes it a "true" 4 link but till simulates the stock set up.
 
bl17z90

bl17z90

New member
cozdude said:
from what i just read (a little google research) it is a 4 link + trackbar so we are all right in a way. shall we call it a 4 1/2 link set up then? :idontknow::cheesy:

the track bar keeps it centered side to side while the arms keep it centered ,and at the right angle, front to back. a set up link the EVO Lever (from my understanding) makes it a "true" 4 link but till simulates the stock set up.
Click to expand...

I like that 4 and a half :yup:
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Vettethret said:
Understood, but how many 4.5" lifts actually give you 4.5" of lift? Most will give you 5+. I know Moby Runs Coil overs as well so I don't know what he's got it set at. Personally, I have always liked taller lifts, which unless my thinking is wrong, is a good reason for long arms. My main curiosity is if I should stick with the RK triple threat LA or go with another manufacturer.
Click to expand...

I have run Moby as tall as 6" with standard coils but now run him at 4.5" of lift. Big and tall was all the rage back in the 1980's but on the trail, it's a liability. If you're just into the "tall look", long arms will help you to have a better ride. Having said that, you CANNOT effectively make a standard coil give you more lift without making is stiffer as well. It is necessary to do to keep it from bowing under the weight. Of course, with a taller stiffer coil, you're gonna get a rougher ride.

David1tontj said:
It's an inch guys..... He already said he likes taller lifts.. 1" is not a big deal...
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Being that we're talking about a vehicle that weighs about 6000 lbs, pushing a good portion of that weight 1" higher seems like a big deal to me. There is a reason why the best Ultra4 race rigs are so amazingly low. I myself have tested out my JK at over 6" of lift but now purposefully run it at 4.5" and have done whatever I could to make it possible. We even went to greater measures to do get our Vengeance build even lower.

cozdude said:
I would go with a 4 link set up like what EVO has and stay away from a 3 link. If you look at what happened at this years jkx there were a few control arm breaks. The 3 link set up that broke took forever to fix Eddie said and one of the guys on here also had a break on his 4 link (stock arms) and didn't even know till he got home. As Eddie said before the 4 link is better cause if one arm fails you have 3 more to hold the axel in place. If one of the 3 links breaks you SOL.

Stay with a 4 link and you will be happier in the end.
Click to expand...

To be clear, I am not opposed to a triagulated 4-llink system or even a tri-link as both will allow you to get rid of your rear track bar and offer you real benefits on the trail that makes the risk of break a bracket worth considering. But even at that, I should point out that I have run a tri-link setup on my old TJ and have broken it before on the trail - NOT FUN. The RK 3-link kit is weird to me as it still retains a rear track bar and because of it, doesn't really provide you with any real benefits. Ultimately, the amount of flex you have will still be limited to the length of your shock and in the mean time, you are at the mercy of that single rear upper control arm. From personal experience and from what I have seen on the JKX, redundancy is a good thing. As mentioned, I have broken multiple control arm brackets on my JK's and none of them have left me high and dry.
 
cozdude

cozdude

Guy with a Red 2-Door
wayoflife said:
To be clear, I am not opposed to a triagulated 4-llink system or even a tri-link as both will allow you to get rid of your rear track bar and offer you real benefits on the trail that makes the risk of break a bracket worth considering. But even at that, I should point out that I have run a tri-link setup on my old TJ and have broken it before on the trail - NOT FUN. The RK 3-link kit is weird to me as it still retains a rear track bar and because of it, doesn't really provide you with any real benefits. Ultimately, the amount of flex you have will still be limited to the length of your shock and in the mean time, you are at the mercy of that single rear upper control arm. From personal experience and from what I have seen on the JKX, redundancy is a good thing. As mentioned, I have broken multiple control arm brackets on my JK's and none of them have left me high and dry.
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yep thats why i was saying the 4 link would be better would be better all around.

follow up question- does the evo lever make it a triagulated for link? or does it keep it a "5 link"? the lever is a master peice but this makes me wonder now what above setup it utilizes
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
cozdude said:
yep thats why i was saying the 4 link would be better would be better all around.

follow up question- does the evo lever make it a triagulated for link? or does it keep it a "5 link"? the lever is a master peice but this makes me wonder now what above setup it utilizes
Click to expand...

The EVO Lever is just a system designed to allow you to run coil overs in the rear. You could probably run it with any suspension system but, for the purposes of the EVO long arm kit, it still utilizes 4-links and a track bar.
 
cozdude

cozdude

Guy with a Red 2-Door
wayoflife said:
The EVO Lever is just a system designed to allow you to run coil overs in the rear. You could probably run it with any suspension system but, for the purposes of the EVO long arm kit, it still utilizes 4-links and a track bar.
Click to expand...

awesome thanks eddie. i figured it kept the trackbar but wasnt 100% sure. :beer:
 
David1tontj

David1tontj

New member
wayoflife said:
Being that we're talking about a vehicle that weighs about 6000 lbs, pushing a good portion of that weight 1" higher seems like a big deal to me. There is a reason why the best Ultra4 race rigs are so amazingly low. I myself have tested out my JK at over 6" of lift but now purposefully run it at 4.5" and have done whatever I could to make it possible. We even went to greater measures to do get our Vengeance build even lower.
.
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And I agree.. Lower is better-for race trucks and hardcore off-roaders... But in his original post, and the posts that followed, he said he did not want to change to shorter springs, and that he liked taller rigs.... It's his personal taste... I looked in his profile and can't find any favorite trail/etc that would lead me to believe he's "hardcore" either.. So that is why I said "it's just an inch" I know it's not ideal, but without variety, it's like there is just a bunch of cookie cutter jk's running around that look the exact same...

Also side note: what did you have to do to make the 40's clear with 4.5" lift? You said "but now purposefully run it at 4.5" and have done whatever I could to make it possible" just curious since everyone on here thinks you can clear the 40's with 4.5" lift. I never hear about Any extras. (4.5" lift and...., and....)

Not trying to start anything, just wondering why 1" is such a big deal on an average truck.

Ps.. I love the vengeance build and would totally go that route if I had the money!


05 Tj, long arm, one ton, lockers, winches, 39.5" Iroks
 
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