rock krawler 3 link

just-lift-it · Nov 29, 2013

Hey guys,

Anyone running the Rock Krawler stuff in there 4 door jeep? witht he 3 Link rear end set up? looking for pics of it installed on a rig

Pros and Cons of it vs. say clayton rear long arm 4 link or evo rear long arm 4 link?

thanks for the help!

Bigtom · Nov 29, 2013

Not running out personally but the few I know have only complained about the rear sway bar hitting the stock and in one case aftermarket muffler. You need to move the sway bar back an inch or so and that's causing the issue

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

wayoflife · Nov 29, 2013

just-lift-it said:
Hey guys,

Anyone running the Rock Krawler stuff in there 4 door jeep? witht he 3 Link rear end set up? looking for pics of it installed on a rig

Pros and Cons of it vs. say clayton rear long arm 4 link or evo rear long arm 4 link?

thanks for the help!

There are lots of guys running it and I'm sure one of them will chime in. I'm sure that I even have a few pics that I've taken from shows in the past. Pros, none that I can think of being that it still retains a track bar. In the end, your flex will still be limited by the length of your shocks. Cons, you just have one upper control arm. If you break it or one of its mounts, you are up a creek without a paddle. This happened on the last JKX to a guy with this kit and the recovery was no fun. On the same trip, another guy broke a rear control arm on a standard 4-link setup and didn't even realize it until he got back home in southern California. It would be one thing if we were talking about a triangulated 4-link or even tri-link as that would get rid of your track bar but being that we're not, there's something to be said about redundancy. At least, in my opinion anyway.

just-lift-it · Nov 29, 2013

So would you say there are no binding issues with the 4 long arm system like clayton and evo which will utalize the upper arms outboard of the frame? vs a single upper inboard?

all three kits still use a trac bar or panhard

Its my understanding the only kit offered is Genright triangulated 4 link and looking at their numbers and such doesnt look like it would perform as well as people may think it is designed to fit a variety of peoples needs at an understandable manufacturing cost so they can make money...

Maybe there are other companies selling a triangulated 4 link kit complete with a new gas tank and such? assuming it would be well over $6k for everything. where the RK 3 link upgrade kit is $600

Just trying to look at all the kits from multiple view points to justify where to spend the money and what I will get for the money

wayoflife · Nov 29, 2013

just-lift-it said:
So would you say there are no binding issues with the 4 long arm system like clayton and evo which will utalize the upper arms outboard of the frame? vs a single upper inboard?

The Clayton long arm kit utilizes a radius arm design and there is all kinds of binding with it. The EVO long arm kit uses a standard 4-link setup but, unlike other long arm kits, utilizes johnny joints on both ends of the control arms to provide a significantly greater amount of bind free flex.

all three kits still use a trac bar or panhard

Yup, they do and that's my point. IF the RK kit utilized a watts link, tri-link or triangulated 4-link, you could get rid of the track bar and then you would at least have a real benefit worthy of the risks of having just one mount. Being that they don't, I don't really see the point.

Its my understanding the only kit offered is Genright triangulated 4 link and looking at their numbers and such doesnt look like it would perform as well as people may think it is designed to fit a variety of peoples needs at an understandable manufacturing cost so they can make money...

Maybe there are other companies selling a triangulated 4 link kit complete with a new gas tank and such? assuming it would be well over $6k for everything. where the RK 3 link upgrade kit is $600

Just trying to look at all the kits from multiple view points to justify where to spend the money and what I will get for the money

Yup, GenRight is the only one that has a triangulated 4-link setup but it is pricey and it does require you to replace your gas tank with a smaller relocated one. Rancho has a reverse tri-link but that has issues of its own and of course, they still utilize radius arms up front. Again, being that your ultimate limiting factor in how much flex you have is the length of your shocks, I would still put my money on 4-links if only for the redundancy. Of course, that's what I run now and with coil overs that offer 14" of vertical travel.

As you can see, having 4-links isn't limiting my flex.

Raceplayhavefun · Nov 30, 2013

I have the RK 3 link in my 2 door. I know you asked specifically about the 4 door, but I think my input is relevant. As wayalife indicated, having the 4th link definitely gives some safety margin that a 3 link does not. One of my complaints with the RK 3 link is that the geometry isn't what I would call great. The way the geometry is, the instant center ends up way too far forward. If you couple this with springs of a reasonable rate, it tries to rotate the trucks to the rear bumper constantly. Sucks on the road because it is constantly raising and lowering the front end on acceleration and deceleration. Off road it makes it climb poorly as it tries to lift the front end. It can be overcome with some custom bracket ray work, but why should you have to do that? Out of the 3 you listed, I feel the Evo setup is about as good as it gets.

Wayalife, how about showing some pics of the rear? We can see the front works well, but you can't tell much about the rear in this pic. What length coil overs do you run?

wayoflife · Nov 30, 2013

Raceplayhavefun said:
I have the RK 3 link in my 2 door. I know you asked specifically about the 4 door, but I think my input is relevant. As wayalife indicated, having the 4th link definitely gives some safety margin that a 3 link does not. One of my complaints with the RK 3 link is that the geometry isn't what I would call great. The way the geometry is, the instant center ends up way too far forward. If you couple this with springs of a reasonable rate, it tries to rotate the trucks to the rear bumper constantly. Sucks on the road because it is constantly raising and lowering the front end on acceleration and deceleration. Off road it makes it climb poorly as it tries to lift the front end. It can be overcome with some custom bracket ray work, but why should you have to do that? Out of the 3 you listed, I feel the Evo setup is about as good as it gets.

That was well stated and about as honest as they come.

Wayalife, how about showing some pics of the rear? We can see the front works well, but you can't tell much about the rear in this pic. What length coil overs do you run?

Technically, I'm just running 8" coil overs but due to the EVO Lever design, get a full 14" of vertical travel. Here are a few poser shots that I took right after getting it installed. At the time, I was still running short arms too...

Here's a more recent shot...

I'll look for more if I can.

Rccrwlr · Nov 30, 2013

wayoflife said:
Diggin the uncut fenders!

--Rccrwlr

Click to expand...

Raceplayhavefun · Dec 1, 2013

Wayalife, thanks for the pics! What long arm do you have? I'm assuming the EVO hi clearance long arm? Did you notice any travel/flex difference from the short arm to long arm? I've got an EVO lever and hi clearance system coming for a 2013 2 door. I'm anxious to see how it compares to some of the other systems I've played with.

wayoflife · Dec 1, 2013

Rccrwlr said:
Diggin the uncut fenders!

LOL!! This was an old pic

Raceplayhavefun said:
Wayalife, thanks for the pics! What long arm do you have? I'm assuming the EVO hi clearance long arm? Did you notice any travel/flex difference from the short arm to long arm? I've got an EVO lever and hi clearance system coming for a 2013 2 door. I'm anxious to see how it compares to some of the other systems I've played with.

The first shots you see are of my Jeep back when we were just running Full-Traction short arms. We have gone through several different setups before ultimately going with EVO long arms with high clearance brackets. To be clear, long arms DO NOT improve your flex, they simply correct your suspension geometry and provide a much better ride.

Brankz · Dec 1, 2013

wayoflife said:
That was well stated and about as honest as they come.

Technically, I'm just running 8" coil overs but due to the EVO Lever design, get a full 14" of vertical travel. Here are a few poser shots that I took right after getting it installed. At the time, I was still running short arms too...

What's the name of that cage? With shocks under the rig? And what is it for?
So sorry I don't want to high jack the thread.

wayoflife · Dec 1, 2013

Brankz said:
What's the name of that cage? With shocks under the rig? And what is it for?
So sorry I don't want to high jack the thread.

You mean the EVO Lever? That's what EVO uses for their rear coil overs. It utilizes a cantilever system so that you can get an amazing 14" of vertical travel without leaving your coil overs hanging low and exposed to the rocks or having to cut into your tub. It's really an outstanding design.

Brankz · Dec 1, 2013

wayoflife said:
You mean the EVO Lever? That's what EVO uses for their rear coil overs. It utilizes a cantilever system so that you can get an amazing 14" of vertical travel without leaving your coil overs hanging low and exposed to the rocks or having to cut into your tub. It's really an outstanding design.

Cool thanks :thumps up:

just-lift-it · Dec 2, 2013

I understand radius arms setups are stricly just for packaging its simple to design and maufacture and sells for a reasonable price, i in no way shape or form want this design on my jk.

I am stricly looking for the rear of the jeep currently thats why im asking 4 link becasue i have been reading about all kinds of binding issues with having all 4 long arms on the outside of the frame at the rear but they need to be to avoid your gas tank?

Can you snap close up pics of your rear long arm mounts on the frame end? im not talking about amount of wheel travel or coil overs vs coils and shocks just strictly about long arm 3 link rear vs. 4 link rear given the amount of space to work with in the back of a JK

If i had it my way of course a traingulated 4 link rear with new fuel tank is the upmost best way to go but i want to keep my 2012 JKU looking like a nice new jeep inside and out and i want to not have to stop at every gas station because i have a 40L fuel cell vs a large stock tank...

Just trying to put into realization what my needs are for my right and what reality is what will work with the vehicle. I want to build it myself instead of buying a kit that was produced to sell. I understand no kit is perfect for every persons needs and every vehicle we all drive different and have different wants and needs.

I have an end goal in mind as stated and just want to build the best design for my goal!

Thanks for all the input so far to help with my decision some more images of your rear long arm system on your jeep Eddie would be great!

wayoflife · Dec 2, 2013

just-lift-it said:
I am stricly looking for the rear of the jeep currently thats why im asking 4 link becasue i have been reading about all kinds of binding issues with having all 4 long arms on the outside of the frame at the rear but they need to be to avoid your gas tank?

Of course, what you are "reading" is coming from guys who actually run a 4-link long arm setup and are speaking from experience, right?

Can you snap close up pics of your rear long arm mounts on the frame end?

Shot of the arms at full bump - please notice how the mounts and lower arms sit above the frame rails...

im not talking about amount of wheel travel or coil overs vs coils and shocks just strictly about long arm 3 link rear vs. 4 link rear given the amount of space to work with in the back of a JK

If anything, a 3-link requires you to install a mount over the diff and one on a cross members and that takes up space that was free and open. For the most part, a 4-link utilizes the same area that was being taken up by your stock control arms. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish but based on personal experience of breaking a tri-link on my TJ, seeing someone with an RK 3-link break on the Rubicon this past summer, having personally broking multiple control arm mounts on my JK, I still stand by redundancy being a good thing and more valuable to have than whatever a 3-link with a track bar will pretend to offer. But, that's just me. :yup:

just-lift-it · Dec 2, 2013

Thanks for the clarification on the mounts! that makes more sense now as to that design.

So if i understand this correctly, there is only one "benefit" from that deisgn and thats one more upper link, it still uses a trac bar or panhard bar to keep the axle centers its basically a stock suspension with longer arms is this correct?

Out of the 3 link set ups you have personally seen fail over years of wheeling what part is it that you see failing? the mount or the arm?

I agree having two upper arms is better insurance incase one was to fail at the end of the day but i also can see building a kit 5 times stronger then any off the shelf kit and trusting it... i understand it is not apples to apples and everyone has their own opinions just like when it comes down to link material everyone says oh make it out of 2" .25 wall DOM because it looks better and it strong but then others opinion is 2x2 .25" square tube and when you do the math and engineering behind it yes the square tube isnt a pretty and flow with the jeep looks more backyard hack job but it is 2 times stronger

keep the information coming it is very helpful in my decision where to take my rear build this winter, 3 or 4 link

wayoflife · Dec 2, 2013

just-lift-it said:
Thanks for the clarification on the mounts! that makes more sense now as to that design.

So if i understand this correctly, there is only one "benefit" from that deisgn and thats one more upper link, it still uses a trac bar or panhard bar to keep the axle centers its basically a stock suspension with longer arms is this correct?

That's one way of looking at it but the way I see it, there is NO benefit from using a 3-link design that still retains a track bar to keep the axle centered - it's basically a stock suspension with just one upper arm. If anything, I would say that this is a "weakness".

Out of the 3 link set ups you have personally seen fail over years of wheeling what part is it that you see failing? the mount or the arm?

Most of the breaks occurred at the axle mount. There is a lot of stress placed on rear upper control arms just from the torque created from driving around town. Wheel hard and add BIG flex and you will place even more stress on them. This is why so many guys running coil overs on factory axles break factory upper control arm mounts. I personally have broken several. To reduce this to just one mount, basically a stock suspension with just one upper arm just doesn't make sense to me. But again, that's just me.

I agree having two upper arms is better insurance incase one was to fail at the end of the day but i also can see building a kit 5 times stronger then any off the shelf kit and trusting it.

It's not just a matter of insurance, it's without question, a stronger setup than a basically stock suspension with just one upper arm.

i understand it is not apples to apples and everyone has their own opinions just like when it comes down to link material everyone says oh make it out of 2" .25 wall DOM because it looks better and it strong but then others opinion is 2x2 .25" square tube and when you do the math and engineering behind it yes the square tube isnt a pretty and flow with the jeep looks more backyard hack job but it is 2 times stronger

keep the information coming it is very helpful in my decision where to take my rear build this winter, 3 or 4 link

You're right, that's far from an apples to apples comparison as you are just talking about looks and strength of two different tubes. For this discussion, we're talking about having one upper control arms versus two. There just is no comparison. Of course, that's just the way I see it.

just-lift-it · Dec 2, 2013

Eddie,

When it comes to the evo kit you show in the last picture there, do you have number for that design, instant center anti squat and stuff?

Being the mounting loaction on the frame end look to almost be in the same plane very little seperation vs the axle end on that kit from pictures i have seen probably 6-8" seperation also upper arm being 8" shorter then lower?

Just curious how it reacts under acceleration and breaking and hil climbs vs competitor design, since i dont have actual measurement of the evo stuff i cant just toss the number in a calculator!

As stated i am not set on either design 3/4 link i am mearly seeking everyones opinions from experience!

I realize your 4 link long arm vs RK 3 link doesnt dictate the amount of flex im sure with no shocks both would flex the same amount from what i see in pictures its just a matter of handling between the two distinct designs and the strength of having two uppers vs 1 upper!

Evo design is very much the same as Clayton design with the only real difference your upper arm is shorter and lower arm is longer to keep it all tucked up tidy they have there lower mounted on bottom of frame directly below the upper mount both designs would perform the same from the looks of it only thing that comes down to is the numbers then gotta look at the math

wayoflife · Dec 2, 2013

just-lift-it said:
When it comes to the evo kit you show in the last picture there, do you have number for that design, instant center anti squat and stuff?

:cheesy: What? I just run the kit just like I have many before it, I didn't design it and certainly don't concern myself with numbers, just how well it works or doesn't.

Being the mounting loaction on the frame end look to almost be in the same plane very little seperation vs the axle end on that kit from pictures i have seen probably 6-8" seperation also upper arm being 8" shorter then lower?

As I said, the shot in question was taken at a full bump. You know, as in the axle was making full contact with the bump stops above. I took it while doing a cycling test. Also, I should reiterate that this kit was installed using high clearance frame brackets and even axle mounts on the lower control arms. You've never "seen" anything else like before because there's nothing else like it out there.

Just curious how it reacts under acceleration and breaking and hil climbs vs competitor design, since i dont have actual measurement of the evo stuff i cant just toss the number in a calculator!

You have numbers from other manufacturer that you can toss into a calculator and will actually tell you how well they will react under acceleration and breaking and hill climbs? Can you post them up? Seriously, I would love to have them as well as the calculations. Up until now, I've just been going off of experience, how things feel and what I've actually seen work or not.

As stated i am not set on either design 3/4 link i am mearly seeking everyones opinions from experience!

And, as stated, that's all I'm sharing with you, my experiences based on what I've tested and physically seen. You can come up with your own opinions based on it. :yup:

I realize your 4 link long arm vs RK 3 link doesnt dictate the amount of flex im sure with no shocks both would flex the same amount from what i see in pictures its just a matter of handling between the two distinct designs and the strength of having two uppers vs 1 upper!

You really can be so sure of that just from pictures you've seen? You're way better at this than me.

Evo design is very much the same as Clayton design with the only real difference your upper arm is shorter and lower arm is longer to keep it all tucked up tidy they have there lower mounted on bottom of frame directly below the upper mount both designs would perform the same from the looks of it only thing that comes down to is the numbers then gotta look at the math

Not even close. Maybe with the EVO Double D kit as it has a traditional under the frame rail lower control arm mount but really, that's about it. With a really tall lift, this is the better way to go as at that point, it'll help restore your suspension geometry to be closer to stock. The kit I have, the one with high clearance brackets were made to have an distinct advantage on the rocks. You just can't install them on any JK as it requires custom high clearance axle mounts as well. If you've got "numbers" that can mathematically tell you how well something will perform, please share them as the only way I've been able to determine how well things work is the old fashioned and antiquated, get in the Jeep and test it out.

2007 JKU · Dec 2, 2013

Well I'll get jumped on but here what I've gleaned from reading many posts on other Forums..

To the gentleman in the 2 door experiencing Torque steer, what sway bars do you have? If you do not have an OEM front on the street and a Currie HD bar on the rear, you will probably experience some torque steer. I have a 1" Currie rear with a Swayloc in the front and love it on and off-road. NO Torque steer.

I would bring up the fact that JP magazine and many others stated the Independent 3 Link with Track Bar was the best suspension design ever created for Wranglers. All Ultra 4 rigs with steering boxes use them exclusively, even some without, like Shannon Cambell. Suspension without natural binding points is the smoothest on the road as well as the best off-road.

If someone is looking for systems with the most available articulation possible, check out the new Off-Road Pro Systems by RK. Double Johnny Jointed arms like EVO are limited to +/- 30 degrees per arm. The Off-Road Pro Systems are limited to +/- 60 degrees per arm!

Weld's braking on 1 JK doesn't condemn all welds. Shit happens and if that concern is a issue for you then be prepared as if you wheel in the rocks suspension components will fail.

Yes I like RK and run their 3 link. I choose them after reading many forum's and the owners of JKU's that have ran many different suspension systems.

I likely will upgrade to their new Desert kit along with Prorocks this spring after sorting out the LS swap.

rock krawler 3 link

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