Will cross caster affect "sticky steering"

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CrazyLarry

New member
Just recently messed around with my control arm lengths at an attempt to combat some radial pull to the right. I made my driver side control arm about 3 turn shorter than my passenger. Shortly after my steering wheel does not return to center just sort of sticks or is jerky when it attempts to come back to center. At full lock it does not budge unless I move it back to center manually. Could this be a result of the recent adjustments to control arms or something else ......ps pump, box, tie rod ends?
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Don't know where you would have gotten the idea to do this but, you do know that you have a SOLID front axle, right? While cross caster is something that you can adjust on an IFS, doing so on a solid axle will do little to nothing other than to put unwanted stress on your control arms, their mounts, their joints and the axle housing itself. I have personally seen control arm and mounts break due to it and, I would even go so far as to say that some of the early axle housing breaks we saw back in 2007 were a result of it too. If it were me, I would return your control arms back to where they were but then, that's just me.

Regarding your steering issue, if I could guess, it's unrelated and might be a result of your steering stabilizer sticking. If you've hit your tie rod recently, it could be slightly bent or bowed and enough to show itself in this manner. At least, it's something that's happened to me in the past and something I see all the time.
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
wayoflife said:
Don't know where you would have gotten the idea to do this but, you do know that you have a SOLID front axle, right? While cross caster is something that you can adjust on an IFS, doing so on a solid axle will do little to nothing other than to put unwanted stress on your control arms, their mounts, their joints and the axle housing itself. I have personally seen control arm and mounts break due to it and, I would even go so far as to say that some of the early axle housing breaks we saw back in 2007 were a result of it too. If it were me, I would return your control arms back to where they were but then, that's just me.


Regarding your steering issue, if I could guess, it's unrelated and might be a result of your steering stabilizer sticking. If you've hit your tie rod recently, it could be slightly bent or bowed and enough to show itself in this manner. At least, it's something that's happened to me in the past and something I see all the time.
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definitely noted on the cross caster. Originally my arms were set at 23 inches. I got the idea to shorten the drivers side by the teraflex instructions. They tell you to make the drivers side control arm length to 23 1/8 and the passenger side to 23 1/4

I have been running without a stabilizer for a while to try and figure this issue out and get my front end dialed in. When the stabilizer was on it is worse. I have not hit my tie rod lately but im sure the tie rod ends are starting to go. I have already replaced my draglink with a synergy which is when I first noticed at full lock turn my steering would stick.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
CrazyLarry said:
definitely noted on the cross caster. Originally my arms were set at 23 inches. I got the idea to shorten the drivers side by the teraflex instructions. They tell you to make the drivers side control arm length to 23 1/8 and the passenger side to 23 1/4
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I figured this is where you got the idea from and honestly, it dumbfounds me that a suspension manufacturer would actually recommend something so stupid. It really does frustrate me to no end because people listen to them if for no other reason than the fact that they should know what they're talking about. All I can tell you is that what you heard is a BAD idea and one that over the last 7 years has proven itself to be something that doesn't work and something you shouldn't do.

I have been running without a stabilizer for a while to try and figure this issue out and get my front end dialed in. When the stabilizer was on it is worse. I have not hit my tie rod lately but im sure the tie rod ends are starting to go. I have already replaced my draglink with a synergy which is when I first noticed at full lock turn my steering would stick.
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Is it safe to assume you have a gas charged stabilizer? That would make it worse for sure. If you are running without a stabilizer and still have this problem, I'd have to say that it really is just radial pull and, while it can be a bit annoying, it's not really a problem. Most big MT's have them with some pulling to the left and others pulling to the right.
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
I'm no longer concerned about the radial pull I'm just trying to get to the bottom on why my steering wheel no longer wants to self center itself. Not sure if it's from the new drag link, bad tie rod ends on my tie rod or something power steering related.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
CrazyLarry said:
I'm no longer concerned about the radial pull I'm just trying to get to the bottom on why my steering wheel no longer wants to self center itself. Not sure if it's from the new drag link, bad tie rod ends on my tie rod or something power steering related.
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Well, what is your caster setting at now? If it's less than +4°, that is most likely your problem.
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
These were my numbers before I made my drivers side arm two full turns shorter so I'm assuming its a lot lower now. been meaning to get new alignment numbers

ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1388516726.098174.jpg
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
Set my control arms back to the way they were which seemed to help a little but it's still not like it was. If my pump or box is damaged i guess I'll know sooner or later. Thanks for the help
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
CrazyLarry said:
These were my numbers before I made my drivers side arm two full turns shorter so I'm assuming its a lot lower now. been meaning to get new alignment numbers

View attachment 62109
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Looking at your numbers, it looks like you actually had +1 more degree of caster than stock and if anything, that should have helped. The 0.1° difference you see from side to side is what you would see stock as well and is further proof that attempting to added cross caster does nothing other than put strain on your control arms, their bushings and mounts.

CrazyLarry said:
Set my control arms back to the way they were which seemed to help a little but it's still not like it was. If my pump or box is damaged i guess I'll know sooner or later. Thanks for the help
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I checked your profile and see no specs on your Jeep. How about you tell us what all you have as that might help. Also, are you sure that your lower arms are actually set the same length now. If you have all 4 adjustable control arms up front, the lowers will control the position of the axle and the uppers will set caster. If the lowers are off, your axle could be sitting kinked over to one side and that will influence things.
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
Sorry about the profile haven't gotten around to that yet. I'm inly running adjustable front lowers. I also have an adjustable front trackbar. I'm running a teraflex 2.5 coil lift with a 1 inch body lift. The recent changes I made to my steering column was the control arm adjustments and a synergy drag link. I first noticed the steering getting "kinked" at full lock after installing the draglink. I did install synergy balljoints and chromoly front shafts about 8k miles ago
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
I forgot to add I made two adjustments to my driver side control arms at different times. The first adjustment was one full turn shorter. I was still experiencing pull but the steering was fine so I made the second adjustment of two full turns shorter for a total of three full turns. The other day I lengthened the arms back to two full turns. Attached is the alignment numbers before the first adjustment of one full turn shorter was made

ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1388775662.859639.jpg
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
Just wanted to add to my thread here still haven't tracked down the poor steering returnability I've been experiencing. I know poor caster generally has a lot to do with the steering wheel not correcting itself when turning but my caster numbers are above 5 on both sides. I installed a body lift and new draglink around the same time I started having these symptoms so I took a look at my steering shaft and snapped a few pics. Just wondering if this looks normal and is it contributing to the issue. I've already adjusted my lower control arms to the same length about 23 inches. Thanks
 
TheDuff

TheDuff

New member
The drag link you installed is a flip correct? Still using the factory track bar?
Do those 2 bars appear parallel? Does it feel like something is binding?
You could try repacking the steering joint that's under the hood.

Sent from my LG-D800 using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
TheDuff said:
The drag link you installed is a flip correct? Still using the factory track bar?
Do those 2 bars appear parallel? Does it feel like something is binding?
You could try repacking the steering joint that's under the hood.

Sent from my LG-D800 using WAYALIFE mobile app
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The drag link is being run in the stock position. Im only running 2.5 inches of lift. Steering Joint? Im assuming you mean the one in the pic? When I turn it turns smooth I don't feel any binding. Its the returnability that looks like its binding
 
jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
CrazyLarry said:
Sorry about the profile haven't gotten around to that yet. I'm inly running adjustable front lowers. I also have an adjustable front trackbar. I'm running a teraflex 2.5 coil lift with a 1 inch body lift. The recent changes I made to my steering column was the control arm adjustments and a synergy drag link. I first noticed the steering getting "kinked" at full lock after installing the draglink. I did install synergy balljoints and chromoly front shafts about 8k miles ago
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seems you've answered your issue "The recent changes ........... and a synergy drag link. I first noticed the steering getting "kinked" at full lock after installing the draglink."

why did you change your draglink? I'd start there....I know Synergy recommends not adjusting the draglink prior to installing, but did you take a measurement in comparison to your stock draglink?

also, you have nothing in your jeep profile still-are you running stock wheels? if you are, do you have the proper backspace? from Synergy: •Requires a maximum 4-3/4" backspace wheel or wheel spacer with factory wheel setup *********
 
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CrazyLarry

New member
jeeeep said:
seems you've answered your issue "The recent changes ........... and a synergy drag link. I first noticed the steering getting "kinked" at full lock after installing the draglink."

why did you change your draglink? I'd start there....I know Synergy recommends not adjusting the draglink prior to installing, but did you take a measurement in comparison to your stock draglink?

also, you have nothing in your jeep profile still-are you running stock wheels? if you are, do you have the proper backspace? from Synergy: •Requires a maximum 4-3/4" backspace wheel or wheel spacer with factory wheel setup *********
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I changed the draglink cause the tie rod ends were shot. I installed the new draglink out of the package with no adjustents made. Once installed I set the toe to 1/8 of an inch in. My wheels have 4.75 backspacing and wheel spacers are 1.5 for a total of 3.25 back spacing. My balljoints are synergys as well with 10k miles on them so they shoul be broken in.
 
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