Metal cloak coils?

Cjacks95

Banned
SO has anyone heard anything about metalcloak coils??? im looking to go from my 3.5inch RC lift to a 4" but i want a lift that wont settle too much.... Im pretty set on the Evo plush coils but i was looking around and saw the metalcloaks so thought id ask. anyone run them? hows the quality? do they settle a lot? hows the ride? you know.. basic lift questions haha. so if anyone has an opinion on them id love to hear it. also if you have a picture of your jeep on them id love to see them so throw the size in there too!

thanks
colby
 

bmwegr

New member
SO has anyone heard anything about metalcloak coils??? im looking to go from my 3.5inch RC lift to a 4" but i want a lift that wont settle too much.... Im pretty set on the Evo plush coils but i was looking around and saw the metalcloaks so thought id ask. anyone run them? hows the quality? do they settle a lot? hows the ride? you know.. basic lift questions haha. so if anyone has an opinion on them id love to hear it. also if you have a picture of your jeep on them id love to see them so throw the size in there too!

thanks
colby

Hey Colby,

I've got the 3.5 inch MetalCloak dual rate coils on my rig. With running the PSC Brawler lite and a winch there's no noticeable sag and has been on the Jeep for 1 year. The ride is great, pretty supple and not to harsh. This thread could explode with Jeepers debating the pro's and con's for dual rate versus single versus progressive, but in my limited experience in just running this coil I am happy. The extended length of the MetalCloak dual rate coil seams to be long enough to keep the spring seated under full articulation. This is just my input from my limited experience.

Here's a picture of the stance with the 3.5 inch dual rates in the front (the winch is going back on soon)...
20131228_154627.jpg
 

Cjacks95

Banned
Hey Colby,

I've got the 3.5 inch MetalCloak dual rate coils on my rig. With running the PSC Brawler lite and a winch there's no noticeable sag and has been on the Jeep for 1 year. The ride is great, pretty supple and not to harsh. This thread could explode with Jeepers debating the pro's and con's for dual rate versus single versus progressive, but in my limited experience in just running this coil I am happy. The extended length of the MetalCloak dual rate coil seams to be long enough to keep the spring seated under full articulation. This is just my input from my limited experience.

Here's a picture of the stance with the 3.5 inch dual rates in the front (the winch is going back on soon)...
View attachment 63746

Sick rig! Great lift height too. I'm debating on either the 3.5 for the 2dr (my springs are sitting at around a 2 3/4 lift) or just the 4dr 3.5 so I can get a 4. Have you ridden in jeeps with different lifts? If so how do they compare
 

bmwegr

New member
Sick rig! Great lift height too. I'm debating on either the 3.5 for the 2dr (my springs are sitting at around a 2 3/4 lift) or just the 4dr 3.5 so I can get a 4. Have you ridden in jeeps with different lifts? If so how do they compare


Thanks, I've ridden in another JKU with a 4 inch Mopar performance lift, the ride was good, I think the springs were a little soft and that was certainly reinforced by the amount of sagging that the lift had. To varying degrees, shocks, valving, tire size and tire air pressure all affect the ride, so take feedback understanding it's all a little subjective.

Regarding lift height, keeping it low is always desirable from a COG and handling standpoint and is even more important in the 2 door. However, it's all about your rig and happiness. Metalcloak also offers a 2.5 inch lift spring for those who want to keep things a little lower.
 

meep97

New member
I have the 2.5" coils and love them. I'm running them with TF 9550 shocks and the ride is pretty perfect. (to me at least) I've only had them on for about 2 months but they're one of my better purchases. No sagging as yet and don't expect them to sag either. I have also read very good reviews about the plush coils too. Either way, I don't think you'd be disappointed with either one. Maybe get the plush if you're looking for the really comfortable DD.
 

Cjacks95

Banned
I have the 2.5" coils and love them. I'm running them with TF 9550 shocks and the ride is pretty perfect. (to me at least) I've only had them on for about 2 months but they're one of my better purchases. No sagging as yet and don't expect them to sag either. I have also read very good reviews about the plush coils too. Either way, I don't think you'd be disappointed with either one. Maybe get the plush if you're looking for the really comfortable DD.

Yeah I'm thinking the plush coils but I'm open to suggestions!!!! Thought id get some info on them incase they're great but so far no bad reviews!

^^^^What he said. I love mine!!!

You have the 3" right? On a 2dr?? Could you post up some pics

Dual rate, enough said. Get the EVO coils.

But 3 or 4?! Can't decide!

Thanks, I've ridden in another JKU with a 4 inch Mopar performance lift, the ride was good, I think the springs were a little soft and that was certainly reinforced by the amount of sagging that the lift had. To varying degrees, shocks, valving, tire size and tire air pressure all affect the ride, so take feedback understanding it's all a little subjective.

Regarding lift height, keeping it low is always desirable from a COG and handling standpoint and is even more important in the 2 door. However, it's all about your rig and happiness. Metalcloak also offers a 2.5 inch lift spring for those who want to keep things a little lower.

Yeah I don't want to be huge but I want to run 37s so I'm feeling like a (true)3.5 would be perfect. Thanks for the input!
 

StrizzyChris

New member
But 3 or 4?! Can't decide!



Yeah I don't want to be huge but I want to run 37s so I'm feeling like a (true)3.5 would be perfect. Thanks for the input!

If you're going to have an aftermarket front and rear bumper, a full size spare, a winch, etc. Then I'd do the 4" coils if you are going with EVO plush ride.
 

hinrichs

Caught the Bug
3" plush rides on 37s
 

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wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
I've got the 3.5 inch MetalCloak dual rate coils on my rig. With running the PSC Brawler lite and a winch there's no noticeable sag and has been on the Jeep for 1 year.

And, that is the benefit of dual rate coils. The downside is that they will limit the amount of stuff you could have if you were running a standard coil and, once the soft rate gets used up carrying things like more weight, you're left riding on the firm side of the coil.

The ride is great, pretty supple and not to harsh.

"great" is relative. You're basing this compared to what? A 4 inch Mopar performance lift? Which one? The one that was built off of a Superlift coil or RE?

...the ride was good, I think the springs were a little soft and that was certainly reinforced by the amount of sagging that the lift had.

I'm sorry but I call total BS on this. Softer riding tall lift coils are kind of a holy grail and you make it sound like it's a bad thing. By all means, please elaborate and explain to us how you came to this conclusion and why what you were feeling wasn't being caused by suspension/steering geometry or maybe even low tire pressure.

This thread could explode with Jeepers debating the pro's and con's for dual rate versus single versus progressive

LOL!! And you make this sound like a bad thing too. I would think that anyone interested in buying anything would want to hear legitimate pros and cons of different options.

...but in my limited experience in just running this coil I am happy.

And really, that's all that should matter.

The extended length of the MetalCloak dual rate coil seams to be long enough to keep the spring seated under full articulation. This is just my input from my limited experience.

You'll forgive me but, your shocks being sized correctly are what keep your coils seated under full articulation - NOT, your coil length.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
If you're going to have an aftermarket front and rear bumper, a full size spare, a winch, etc. Then I'd do the 4" coils if you are going with EVO plush ride.

Agreed. The downside to single rate coils is that they will loose the height they provide when loaded up. This can be addressed by going with a taller coil or, by installing 1" spacers. Having said that, the upside to single rate coils especially ones like EVO plush rides is that they will offer a more comfortable ride. The question one must ask is, what's more important? The way my Jeep "looks" or the way it "rides"? Of course, as mentioned, ride quality is 100% subjective and I have no doubt there are people who will swear by their firm ride.
 
I think the MC coils are a single rate at ride height aren't they? The "soft" rate is designed to be completely compressed at ride height and only come into play at a large droop. (This is the way I'm understanding the pictures on their website anyway)

If I am right about this then then they really shouldn't be compared to a dual rate that is designed to use some of the soft part at ride height and on the road. :thinking:

IMO the "ride quality" that everyone judges has more to do with the shocks and joints they are running than the springs. Please don't get me wrong, I know they play a factor, but most people comment on pot-holes and speed bumps and how the vehicle reacts to them. This has more to do with shock valving and bushing isolation than the springs. Hell, tire pressure has a massive impact too! This is however just my opinion. I am not an expert here and don't want to pretend to be, just my thoughts

I do believe in the opinions of the masses however, and I read consistent praise of ride quality from both MC and EVO coil users. Almost all other brands have lovers and haters.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
I think the MC coils are a single rate at ride height aren't they? The "soft" rate is designed to be completely compressed at ride height and only come into play at a large droop. (This is the way I'm understanding the pictures on their website anyway)

If I am right about this then then they really shouldn't be compared to a dual rate that is designed to use some of the soft part at ride height and on the road. :thinking:

If you are right about this, that is the stupidest design for a coil I have ever seen.

IMO the "ride quality" that everyone judges has more to do with the shocks and joints they are running than the springs. Please don't get me wrong, I know they play a factor, but most people comment on pot-holes and speed bumps and how the vehicle reacts to them. This has more to do with shock valving and bushing isolation than the springs.

Honestly, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Hell, tire pressure has a massive impact too! This is however just my opinion. I am not an expert here and don't want to pretend to be, just my thoughts

This is absolutely true but have you ever asked yourself why? A tire with a lower psi alone will provide a nicer ride because it will absorb bumps in the road just like a "spring".

I do believe in the opinions of the masses however, and I read consistent praise of ride quality from both MC and EVO coil users.

LOL!! You'll forgive me but, forgetting name brands here for a moment, there is NO COMPARISON between a dual rate coil or one that is partially solid at ride height and a coil over. I will agree that I RARELY come across a person who's just thrown thousands of dollars at their Jeep have anything but the highest praise for what they've chosen to buy. Of course, more times than not, most of these people have ZERO experience installing or running anything else at the same level.

Almost all other brands have lovers and haters.

When it comes to blind brand loyalty, you're right, you'll always have lovers and haters. When it comes to things like design, engineering and testing, you have facts and opinions based on experience.
 
If you are right about this, that is the stupidest design for a coil I have ever seen.

ss2001-What-is-Dual-Rate-Updated-1.gif



Honestly, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Well I did say it was just my opinion :yup:;)


LOL!! You'll forgive me but, forgetting name brands here for a moment, there is NO COMPARISON between a dual rate coil or one that is partially solid at ride height and a coil over. I will agree that I RARELY come across a person who's just thrown thousands of dollars at their Jeep have anything but the highest praise for what they've chosen to buy. Of course, more times than not, most of these people have ZERO experience installing or running anything else at the same level.

I wasn't comparing springs to coil-overs. I should of been more clear. I was referring to the Plush-Ride Coils springs. I agree with the comments and people's perspective on their purchase. So, even a few negative comments on a brand from personal experience speaks volumes to me. This is where my comments were derived. I have read negatives from personal experience on every make I can think of with exception to the MC and EVO coil springs. (I'm not saying they aren't out there, just that I haven't read them.)



Edit to add this is why they claim this design to be good. ??? Again I don't claim to be an expert here.
Metalcloak 3.png
 
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NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
Ride quality is almost impossible to measure unless you only ask one person. We all have a different perception of "ride quality." Comparing lift to lift yields skewed results without a constant, ie the OEM ride of a Sahara (which can be used as a baseline feel.)

As for dualrate vs single rate, a dual rate doesn't HAVE to have inferior road feel than a single rate. If you look at that coil pic of the Metalcloak spring, you can see the large portion of the spring is the road rate (the stiffer rate) and a small section is the soft rate for offroad use and flex. Now, on the road (unless you are slamming NYC quality potholes) you generally are not compressing the "stiffer rate" section of the spring to where the coils touch. Same goes on a single rate coil....you wouldn't compress the entire thing on the road anywhere but the craziest potholes.

So, lets say just regular road driving uses 50% of the spring's "bounce" (compression.) Without knowing the actual spring rate of the "road rate" part of the coil, it would be hard to compare a single rate vs a dual rate. Hell, the evo and the MC coils could offer exactly the same ride on the road if their spring rate (road rate part on the MC) was the same. The flex rate coils are dormant and are generally not used on the road (unless again, you slam a pothole or something.)

Now, I will agree with Eddie that dual rate coils are more complex and harder to get right. Most of the time (not saying this about MC, I have no experience with them) suspension companies do things to just fit and that's it. There isn't real engineering behind them. A dual rate coil *could* be fantastic, provided it was properly engineered.

Just my opinion.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member

:cheesy: Now that is just silly!! I admit, I had not seen this diagram before. Even if droop were the only thing that mattered when it came to flex, this is still a stupid idea and a waste. Thanks for the good laugh.

Well I did say it was just my opinion :yup:;)

Yes, you did. :D I challenge you to ride in a Jeep with stiff leaf springs and with the best shocks money can buy and a Jeep with nice soft coils and the worst shocks money can buy. I can assure you, most of ride quality come from your springs - not shocks.

I wasn't comparing springs to coil-overs. I should of been more clear. I was referring to the Plush-Ride Coils springs. I agree with the comments and people's perspective on their purchase.

No, it think the mistake was mine. I looked at what you said again and you did just say "coil" and not, "coil over". Sorry for the misunderstanding.

So, even a few negative comments on a brand from personal experience speaks volumes to me. This is where my comments were derived. I have read negatives from personal experience on every make I can think of with exception to the MC and EVO coil springs. (I'm not saying they aren't out there, just that I haven't read them.)

To be fair, I wasn't making any negative comments regarding a specific "brand", just dual rate coils. Having said that, I will make negative comments about the diagram you just posted up :D
 
I challenge you to ride in a Jeep with stiff leaf springs and with the best shocks money can buy and a Jeep with nice soft coils and the worst shocks money can buy. I can assure you, most of ride quality come from your springs - not shocks.

Fair point, I have and agree. This said, If comparing similar suspension designs (coil-sprung to coil-sprung) I'm not so sure. I formed this opinion after riding in two JKUs with the same springs (brand and length). One had FOX and the other... well I don't remember :idontknow:... but I remember getting out of the FOX Jeep and thinking to myself, "damn I'm not getting those things". They felt extremely harsh. Every bump was like being hit in the a$$ with a hammer. To your point(s) though they had different bumpers, different tires, and I think different arms too. So there could have been more at play.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Ride quality is almost impossible to measure unless you only ask one person. We all have a different perception of "ride quality." Comparing lift to lift yields skewed results without a constant, ie the OEM ride of a Sahara (which can be used as a baseline feel.)

I totally agree that ride quality IS 100% subjective but, it is totally possible to determine what a "firm" ride is vs. a "soft" ride. Of course, one person may prefer one over the other but, that doesn't change the facts.

As for dualrate vs single rate, a dual rate doesn't HAVE to have inferior road feel than a single rate.

You're right, it doesn't. But, the people who tend to buy dual rate coils typically do so because they like to load up their Jeep to the point where the softer rate is used up and they end up just riding on the firm side.

If you look at that coil pic of the Metalcloak spring, you can see the large portion of the spring is the road rate (the stiffer rate) and a small section is the soft rate for offroad use and flex.

To be clear, the small section is NEVER used. Sure, it'll extend when at a full droop but aside from that, it does NOTHING. Contrary to what MC will try and sell people on, there is more to good flex than a lot of droop.

Now, on the road (unless you are slamming NYC quality potholes) you generally are not compressing the "stiffer rate" section of the spring to where the coils touch. Same goes on a single rate coil....you wouldn't compress the entire thing on the road anywhere but the craziest potholes.

Actually, if you were to compress an entire coil, it will have gone "solid" and that is a bad thing. If you do that even when hitting the biggest pothole or flexed out, you will have over-compressed your coil. In other words, you will have compressed it to the point where it does not return to its original height. This is the primary reason why you need to install bump stop extensions and at a height that is relatively equal to the amount of lift you just installed.

The flex rate coils are dormant and are generally not used on the road (unless again, you slam a pothole or something.)

According to the diagram, the "flex rate" coils are NEVER used, they simply extend when your axle is drooped out enough. To suggest they get used would mean that they actually do something to offer a better ride.

Now, I will agree with Eddie that dual rate coils are more complex and harder to get right.

The thing is, you can never get it right for everyone as everyone has a different idea of what right is.

Most of the time (not saying this about MC, I have no experience with them) suspension companies do things to just fit and that's it. There isn't real engineering behind them.

But, to get a coil to provide a specific amount of lift does take engineering. You need to account for weight of the vehicle, thickness of the wire to make the coil and how many winds you'll need to get you to the desired height. Depending on these factors, you will get different results.

A dual rate coil *could* be fantastic, provided it was properly engineered.

But they do make one and it's called a "coil over". Just because they incorporate a shock through the middle of them doesn't mean they don't have 2 different coils with 2 different spring rates of your choice. The real benefit of them is that they use much longer coils for both and allow you to set the timing on them so that you can determine when the heavier coil kicks in.
 
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