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BONDSY
10-26-2012, 01:00 AM
I'm not to sure if you can call it a rumor, or if the political silly season has brought these details to light. But here is the news story, judge for yourself.
It would be a sad day though, if the ICONIC and LEGENDARY Jeep brand were to ship production overseas. I had read prior, Jeep maybe building some models in Italy, but China??????

http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-production-to-china/article/2511703#.UIndJsXA_8m

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html


6230

Prime8
10-26-2012, 01:13 AM
Well, thank the unions...

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 01:14 AM
Really? Here too? I had hopes this forum was above this political crap. They are reopening a plant in China to keep up with increasing demand in China, the worlds largest auto market. The are considering expanding to all of their models not to take away from US production but to be able to offer more product overseas.

It is a story of the success of the Jeep brand internationally twisted by the Washington Examiner, a free newspaper owned by a far right wing billionaire to try to smear the President in Ohio.

Sharkey
10-26-2012, 01:14 AM
That sucks for sure. :Sad:

Maybe there is a bright side though. Maybe the Chinese Jeeps will come stock with Tom Woods drive shafts and those super duty gold chinese u-joints.

piginajeep
10-26-2012, 01:25 AM
its kinda False,,, Read this article...



http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/no-jeep-isn-t-moving-factories-production-china-205828426.html


There's no bigger challenge to writing about complex topics than making sure words mean what one wants them to. Today's exhibit comes from a story quoting a Jeep executive on the company's plans for getting back into China which, through the power of a clumsly misreading, has morphed into a charge that Jeep "is considering giving up on the United States and shifting production to China." It's not -- but many people suffering from election fever will want to believe it anyway.



The story began with this Bloomberg piece, where Jeep chief Mike Manley talks about the prospects for the Jeep Wranger and Grand Cherokee in China. Chrysler had built the older-generation Jeep Cherokee in China decades ago, but lost the plant en route to bankruptcy, and has been seeking ways back into the world's largest market for new cars since. "We're reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity" Manley told Bloomberg, as well as "should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio."



That quote led Paul Bedard of the Washington Examiner to assume Jeep was ready to pack up its Toledo plant and sail west. "It appears that the taxpayer bailed-out Chrysler is looking back and now considering cutting costs by shifting production of all Jeeps to China, which has a strong desire for Jeeps," Bedard wrote today. That story quickly gained traction in political circles, fueled by the continuing political sparring over the bailouts of Chrysler and General Motors that's become a staple of the presidential election.



The problem: Bedard's flat wrong. "Localizing" as Manley said means building versions of Jeep models in China, just as all major automakers tweak their products for Chinese production, safety rules and local tastes. China has yet to become an exporter of vehicles to the United States, and only one automaker imports vehicles from China to the United States today -- the start-up electric car builder Coda, which finishes its cars in California and has sold only a handful to date.



In fact, Chrysler has sunk its roots deeper in Toledo, committing last year to spend $500 million on the factory complex and add 1,100 workers, based on plans to eventually build a variety of models at one of the two plants there. The Toledo Jeep Wrangler plant has been running at full-tilt this year, as has the Detroit plant that builds the Grand Cherokee. Moving either anywhere would cost Chrysler billions of dollars in costs and lost sales -- and both make huge profits for the automaker.



To be fair, this misreading was fueled by President Barack Obama's comment in the last debate that absent his administration's rescue of GM and Chrysler, "we'd be buying cars from China instead of selling cars to China." In truth, Chinese automakers had a chance to buy Jeep and any other part of Chrysler from its private equity owners in February 2008 before its bankruptcy, but passed. Even if a Chinese buyer had carved out Jeep, the finances of shifting output over the Pacific would have been even worse.



People inside the auto industry knew what Manley meant, but stripped of all context, and with no background the phrase could be used to create a political ghost story. Election day can't get here soon enough.

BONDSY
10-26-2012, 01:26 AM
It is a story of the success of the Jeep brand internationally twisted by the Washington Examiner, a free newspaper owned by a far right wing billionaire to try to smear the President in Ohio.

Well thank-you for helping me "JUDGE FOR YOURSELF" as I stated in my initial post. And I included two stories so people could make that determination, for themselves. Thanks for the BIO on the washington examiner though, I did not know that.:crazyeyes:

MTG
10-26-2012, 01:32 AM
Isn't there a thread on Jk-forum for this? ;)

BONDSY
10-26-2012, 01:32 AM
That sucks for sure. :Sad:

Maybe there is a bright side though. Maybe the Chinese Jeeps will come stock with Tom Woods drive shafts and those super duty gold chinese u-joints.

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy: Can you say Gold Seal.......:thumb:

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 01:34 AM
Well thank-you for helping me "JUDGE FOR YOURSELF" as I stated in my initial post. And I included two stories so people could make that determination, for themselves. Thanks for the BIO on the washington examiner though, I did not know that.:crazyeyes:

You are welcome.

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 01:35 AM
Isn't there a thread on Jk-forum for this? ;)

No, not one, more like 8. Must have been front page on the Drudge Report today. ;)

BONDSY
10-26-2012, 02:20 AM
No, not one, more like 8. Must have been front page on the Drudge Report today. ;)

The story may be half truth, I don't see them pulling up roots and relocating to china. The sad story though would be the outsourcing of jobs,
investment capitol, and resources. If china/asia wants the Jeep Brand vehicles, just import them from us.

JKAnimal
10-26-2012, 02:23 AM
That's what happens when the USA has the highest Corporate tax rates in the entire WORLD! :icon_crazy:

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 02:30 AM
The effective tax rate in the US is much lower than most industrialized nations.



6231

When you say import them from us I'm assuming you mean Chrysler and Fiat? An international company not controlled by the US Government? It costs them $10,000 less to produce a Rubicon in China, where would you build? If they did export to China and adding on to the ten grand is the 8.8% tariff China levied making the Jeep product noncompetitive in that market Chrysler looses money and no one wins. It would be great if we could wave a magic wand and make them buy from us but I think Chrysler has their reasons for producing Chinese Jeeps in China, like the fact that they already have the factories there perhaps?

BONDSY
10-26-2012, 03:39 AM
The effective tax rate in the US is much lower than most industrialized nations.





When you say import them from us I'm assuming you mean Chrysler and Fiat? An international company not controlled by the US Government? It costs them $10,000 less to produce a Rubicon in China, where would you build? If they did export to China and adding on to the ten grand is the 8.8% tariff China levied making the Jeep product noncompetitive in that market Chrysler looses money and no one wins. It would be great if we could wave a magic wand and make them buy from us but I think Chrysler has their reasons for producing Chinese Jeeps in China, like the fact that they already have the factories there perhaps?

Your putting word's in my mouth, and besides that, for dissing this forum for allowing political threads you sure are arguing alot. What I simply was stating, Jeeps are built in the USA, if our fellow beloved human beings want to buy a Jeep, they should be buying one produced in America. Of course I understand Chryslers objective in building a product for less to increase profit, I'm all for capitalism, But the fact is, the US/Canada government did have ownership, US tax payers did bail them out, the auto workers still do have partial ownership and the the argument of "outsourcing" a product that by all means could be produced here and exported.......well it just bugs me a bit.

Sharkey
10-26-2012, 04:13 AM
I think you are missing the point Skirmish. There are certain products, unfortunately not so many these days, that are so iconic in American culture that the very thought of them being produced overseas (for any reason) is tough to swallow. Statistics and charts don't change that, nor do discussions of the finer points of global economies or international markets. I get it, I have degrees in finance and accounting as well as a law degree and you know what, I don't care about the numbers...Jeeps should be built in the USA by the men and women of this great country.

Just because something can be made cheaper in China doesn't mean it should be.

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 04:26 AM
I understand how it could bug you and sure it would be great if every Jeep was made here and if it were economical for for them to do it I'm sure they would. It was a business decision made in the 80's to build the plant to take advantage of an emerging market, they closed it during the recession and I think it is great for the Jeep brand that they want to reopen the factory.

What bugged me about your original post is that you started with an article from a paper that you probably never heard of before today and finished with a picture of the President. Most people won't bother to read the first article let alone the second. A lot of those will just assume that Obama is shipping jobs overseas when he is fighting the Chinese on their duty charged to prevent American cars from being profitable there. The other forums have been over run lately with anti Obama threads. When I view new posts usually one in ten is political. I didn't see that here and felt it was a very nice change of pace. I find those threads to be toxic to the forums and nothing gets solved.

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 04:30 AM
I think you are missing the point Skirmish. There are certain products, unfortunately not so many these days, that are so iconic in American culture that the very thought of them being produced overseas (for any reason) is tough to swallow. Statistics and charts don't change that, nor do discussions of the finer points of global economies or international markets. I get it, I have degrees in finance and accounting as well as a law degree and you know what, I don't care about the numbers...Jeeps should be built in the USA by the men and women of this great country.

Just because something can be made cheaper in China doesn't mean it should be.

The point is, US Jeeps will remain in production to be sold in the US as well as other countries. Chinese Jeeps that were in production from 1983 until 2009 will once again be produced in China to be sold in the Asian market, as the have been in the past. They aren't new factories or jobs being shipped out, it is an increase in demand that they are meeting with existing resources.

Sharkey
10-26-2012, 04:37 AM
...and again, I say who cares. I'm sure it would be cheaper to make Chinese Jack Daniels for sale in China than it is to make it here and ship it over. I don't care about the economics; I would be sad to hear it was being made in China.

CALIJK
10-26-2012, 05:09 AM
I just read through this whole thread and only figured out two things:

1. You are all smarter than me;

2. Obama does not wheel, so I'm not voting for him! (Romney may not either, but at least he wears cowboy boots once in a while.)

Done. Try to top that!:thumb:

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 05:13 AM
Charlie doesn't surf!

CALIJK
10-26-2012, 05:19 AM
Charlie doesn't surf!

Touche - no he did not!

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 05:34 AM
He also doesn't have a cover for his trunk cubby to fit a 2 gallon air tank under. Well neither do I yet but I'm working on it. :)

6240

Skirmish
10-26-2012, 05:45 AM
Chrysler's official response

http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=1932

Jeep in China
by Gualberto Ranieri
October 25, 2012 4:24 PM
There are times when the reading of a newswire report generates storms originated by a biased or predisposed approach.

On Oct. 22, 2012, at 11:10 a.m. ET, the Bloomberg News report “Fiat Says Jeep® Output May Return to China as Demand Rises” stated “Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley (President and CEO of the Jeep brand) referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.”

Despite clear and accurate reporting, the take has given birth to a number of stories making readers believe that Chrysler plans to shift all Jeep production to China from North America, and therefore idle assembly lines and U.S. workforce. It is a leap that would be difficult even for professional circus acrobats.

Let’s set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China. It’s simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world’s largest auto market. U.S. Jeep assembly lines will continue to stay in operation. A careful and unbiased reading of the Bloomberg take would have saved unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments

10frank9
10-26-2012, 05:58 AM
Is this the"Official pissing contest" thread? Wait a second, which forum am I on again?

Hightower
10-26-2012, 06:06 AM
Question. Is the Chinese plant a assembly plant or does it build the parts as well? Two if its an assembly plant where are the pieces of the Jeeps made that is plant will assemble into Jeeps.

Prime8
10-26-2012, 10:55 AM
I don't care about the numbers...Jeeps should be built in the USA by the men and women of this great country.

Just because something can be made cheaper in China doesn't mean it should be.

So you're saying that your finance and accounting degrees are worthless because emotion is far more important than the actual numbers...? Well, hope you are ready for higher and higher vehicle costs then.

Prime8
10-26-2012, 10:59 AM
I just read through this whole thread and only figured out two things:

1. You are all smarter than me;

2. Obama does not wheel, so I'm not voting for him! (Romney may not either, but at least he wears cowboy boots once in a while.)

Done. Try to top that!:thumb:

He also wears magic underpants and supports people who give women no rights over their bodies. A vote for Romney is a vote for ignorance, plain and simple.

You've been topped...

JeepFan
10-26-2012, 12:46 PM
Let's keep it that way!:yup:

624562466247624862496250

Sharkey
10-26-2012, 04:25 PM
So you're saying that your finance and accounting degrees are worthless because emotion is far more important than the actual numbers...? Well, hope you are ready for higher and higher vehicle costs then.

Not worthless at all. They add to the value of my services for certain types of cases, which translates into a premium that clients are willing to pay. I gladly pay more for certain products that are made in the USA and I would pay a reasonable premium to ensure Jeeps continued to be built here on American soil.

BONDSY
10-27-2012, 01:58 AM
http://247wallst.com/2012/04/26/chrysler-helped-by-lack-of-overseas-operations/

Oh no, if I'm reading this right, it Clearly states investing in overseas is a bad idea.


"Ford (NYSE: F) and GM (NYSE: GM) release earnings in the next several days. Overseas sales, particularly in Europe, will weigh their earnings down."


"Chrysler has almost no sales in China either. Overall car sales for all manufacturers in the world largest, and up until recently the most attractive, market have stalled."


"As it turns out, the efforts of Chrysler’s rivals to hold and expand international sales have damaged them."

So my question would be, why would Chrysler invest in a zero market that has harmed their competitors?

piginajeep
10-27-2012, 03:45 AM
Let's keep it that way!:yup:

<img src="http://wayalife.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6245"/><img src="http://wayalife.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6246"/><img src="http://wayalife.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6247"/><img src="http://wayalife.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6248"/><img src="http://wayalife.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6249"/><img src="http://wayalife.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6250"/>

Justin Beiber called he wants his hair cut back

MTG
10-27-2012, 03:48 AM
Justin Beiber called he wants his hair cut back

Ouch!

I was going to ask if that was Tony next to el honcho.

piginajeep
10-27-2012, 03:52 AM
Ouch!

I was going to ask if that was Tony next to el honcho.

Haha, I couldn't resist.

Love the J10 and CJ5,,

Miramontes
10-28-2012, 11:12 PM
I originally purchased a Jeep because it was built in THE USA. Otherwise I might of just got a Toyota.

Skirmish
10-29-2012, 12:08 AM
http://247wallst.com/2012/04/26/chrysler-helped-by-lack-of-overseas-operations/

Oh no, if I'm reading this right, it Clearly states investing in overseas is a bad idea.

So my question would be, why would Chrysler invest in a zero market that has harmed their competitors?

They already made the investment in the 80's when the plant was built. There was a rush to get into China as an emerging market and their partnership with the Beijing Jeep Corp didn't go well for a long time. The crash in Europe destroyed their market there so the closed the plant on 2009. They are now reopening it because of increased demand in China.

RDE2ROK
10-31-2012, 08:38 AM
It doesn't matter if Jeep is built in China like everything else! We buy them,strip them down,and replace the crap parts with TOP OF THE LINE USA PARTS! Dynatrac, Off Road Evolution,Advance Adapters,OR-FAB,and on and on...That's what makes our jeeps "JEEPS" and our money for the parts and labor stays HERE!:rock::beer:

JeepFan
11-01-2012, 01:00 PM
Justin Beiber called he wants his hair cut back

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:


Ouch!

I was going to ask if that was Tony next to el honcho.

Yes, that's me!


Haha, I couldn't resist.

Love the J10 and CJ5,,

The J10 was a money pit, but the CJ7 was awesome! Wish I had them today! :thumb:

This message was made in America!!! :clap2:

Jersey_Devil
11-02-2012, 08:51 PM
Ceo of Chrysler already came out and said it's a lie, their not shipping to China