drag link end failure? flip kit and death wobble

desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
so i developed a death wobble in my rig a few months ago and i have been slowly but surely fixing things that were causing/instigating it. One of the shops i had take a look at it pointed out something that i hadnt noticed in my search. The drag link end that connects to the knuckle appears to be popping in and out of the joint (as shown in the video below. i apologize for the crap cell vid quality but its the best i could get tonight, take my word for it it is definitely moving up and down like the ball joint has gone to crap). Im no expert but it seems to me like the drag link end shouldnt be hopping up and down like that. With that said i figured this would be a good opportunity to upgrade my drag link and do a flip kit, BUT in my search for death wobble causes i found that my stock track bar mount bolt hole was a bit warped so i had washers welded up to it to better hold it in place. now let the questions flow.... Is the hopping up and down of my drag link a problem that could be instigating my steering/death wobble issues? Drag link flip kits come with a track bar relocation bracket, will that work with my welded on washers or would i need to grind them off? Can i flip the drag link w/out using the track bar relocation bracket? (i understand that this wouldnt totally correct the steering geometry) Or is my best bet to buy something like the synergy drag link that is an upgrade from the stock one and just leave it mounted in the stock location and deal with the geometry being off and suck it up like i have for the last 30k miles i put on my jeep?



 
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olram30

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
I'd go with a drag link flip. And yes, you need to use the track bar bracket with a flip. Not sure about the washers or how they were welded.
And make sure everything is torqued to specs
 
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desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
olram30 said:
I'd go with a drag link flip. And yes, you need to use the track bar bracket with a flip. Not sure about the washers or how they were welded.
Click to expand...

its just 2 grade 8 washers with a dab of mig around on the front side of the mount. should be able to grind it off if i have to but i would rather not plus the reason why they are welded on there is because the stock hole is a little warped so if the new relocation mount uses the same mounting hole its not gonna be as sturdy as it could be w/out the washers
 
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jkuone

jkuone

New member
If the stock tracbar bracket is beat up, you might think about just doing a new weld on
Raised one with the flip kit....
 
ridg3runner

ridg3runner

-
In any case, you need to retorque your front suspension, especially the track bar after each episode of DW. If you don't you'll just be chasing your tail. Also, make sure your tires aren't wearing goofy and that they are balanced. And for the love of God, don't run out and buy a new steering stabilizer, IT WILL NOT FIX DEATH WOBBLE..
 
olram30

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
For example on a raised track bar bracket, mine uses a bunch of bolts, u strap with extra bolts there and should be welded. I forgot exactly how many bolts, but it's on good. Not sure exactly how bad your factory bracket is.
 

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desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
olram30 said:
Warped or ovaled? Anyways, a new bracket has new track bar holes
Click to expand...

ovaled from all the vibrations in my front suspension

ridg3runner said:
In any case, you need to retorque your front suspension, especially the track bar after each episode of DW. If you don't you'll just be chasing your tail. Also, make sure your tires aren't wearing goofy and that they are balanced. And for the love of God, don't run out and buy a new steering stabilizer, IT WILL NOT FIX DEATH WOBBLE..
Click to expand...

so here is the deal when i did my lift originally i didnt get the alignment right and i started right off the bat with crappy worn tires that never wanted to wear correct again. the alignment is long been since fixed. when the DW stuff started happening i got my tires balanced again since they were getting some cupping (that helped a little). My caster angle was off so i fixed that (didnt really notice a change). My track bar had some play when i turned the steering wheel back and forth on the ground turns out the hole was a little ovaled out so i had washers welded up to keep in in place (helped a ton). I know my ball joints need to be replaced and those are coming up next along with the drag link stuff.

Id rather not go over all the things that would be causing DW i have been over and over all the threads about that and my whole front suspension is recently all re torqued and 95% of DW is gone im just more concerned about what to do with my drag link?
 
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desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
olram30 said:
For example on a raised track bar bracket, mine uses a bunch of bolts, u strap with extra bolts there and should be welded. I forgot exactly how many bolts, but it's on good. Not sure exactly how bad your factory bracket is.
Click to expand...

yeah i definitly see that its held on in multiple places im just concerned about that main big bolt through the stock hole that is now 2 washers thicker on mine that im assuming would need to go to fit that mount. the hole wasnt terrible but it was bad enough for me to want to do something about it and it made a noticeable difference i the oscillation in my front suspension
 
olram30

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
desertrunner said:
yeah i definitly see that its held on in multiple places im just concerned about that main big bolt through the stock hole that is now 2 washers thicker on mine that im assuming would need to go to fit that mount. the hole wasnt terrible but it was bad enough for me to want to do something about it and it made a noticeable difference i the oscillation in my front suspension
Click to expand...

Hard to say. I personally don't think they would be needed anymore.
 
ridg3runner

ridg3runner

-
desertrunner said:
Id rather not go over all the things that would be causing DW i have been over and over all the threads about that and my whole front suspension is recently all re torqued and 95% of DW is gone im just more concerned about what to do with my drag link?
Click to expand...

Why create a thread about DEATH WOBBLE if you don't really want any help. Your drag link is the very least of your worries, but I'm sure you already know this since you don't really need anyone's help.
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
ridg3runner said:
Why create a thread about DEATH WOBBLE if you don't really want any help. Your drag link is the very least of your worries, but I'm sure you already know this since you don't really need anyone's help.
Click to expand...

the mention of DW was to give background on why my drag link may have failed and why i have washers welded to my track bar mount my question is not about death wobble my question is has my stock drag link failed and what can i do about it? if i remember right the title is drag link end failure? DW is mentioned later so dont know where you think i stared a thread about death wobble
 
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jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
your track bar should not be flopping like that. You should be ok doing a drag link flip kit or getting another stock track bar (I'd invest in the flip kit)

The track bar bracket will probably fit as it does have some room - don't know how thick a washer you used, but you can always grind it more flat is necessary to preserve the hole.

Depending on the track bar bracket, it may come with a spacer for the bolt to fit thru; if not, the other bolts will help keep it in place - just be sure to torque everything properly.

the issues you are now experiencing are from what you indicated, not properly correcting the issue to begin with but it's not the end of the world and you can still do a flip kit. Just be sure to fix or keep a close eye on the other mentioned issues before they get worse. If you can swing it, I'd take care of the ball joints at the same time.

Edit - in answer to additional questions, I would skip the synergy track flip kit, I have it and not happy with it. I'd go with the EVO or similar that uses a stock RHD drag link and bracket. And yes, the bracket is a must or you'll introduce a whole new batch of issues.
 
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desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
jeeeep said:
your track bar should not be flopping like that. You should be ok doing a drag link flip kit or getting another stock track bar (I'd invest in the flip kit)

The track bar bracket will probably fit as it does have some room - don't know how thick a washer you used, but you can always grind it more flat is necessary to preserve the hole.

Depending on the track bar bracket, it may come with a spacer for the bolt to fit thru; if not, the other bolts will help keep it in place - just be sure to torque everything properly.

the issues you are now experiencing are from what you indicated, not properly correcting the issue to begin with but it's not the end of the world and you can still do a flip kit. Just be sure to fix or keep a close eye on the other mentioned issues before they get worse. If you can swing it, I'd take care of the ball joints at the same time.
Click to expand...

Already have the ball joints sitting in my cart online i was just waiting for a little help on what to do with the drag link before i clicked checkout. Thanks for the insight. :thumb:
 
olram30

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
As said above, hard to say, depends on the track bar bracket. The drag link looks like there's some play. Not sure how bad your ball joints are. Not sure if your bolts are torqued to spec. But with a 3.5" lift, you'd benefit from a flip in other ways also. Can you feel clunking on the drag link if someone else turns the wheel?
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
olram30 said:
As said above, hard to say, depends on the track bar bracket. The drag link looks like there's some play. Not sure how bad your ball joints are. Not sure if your bolts are torqued to spec. But with a 3.5" lift, you'd benefit from a flip in other ways also. Can you feel clunking on the drag link if someone else turns the wheel?
Click to expand...

torque specs should all be good but doest hurt to check again. My mind is on synergy for the drag link and bracket mostly for cost and the HD drag link ends unless for some reason the synergy stuff sucks and i havent read about it yet??? and thats a good question i havent had someone else turn the wheel with me holding on to the DL so ill check that out tomorrow
 
dchew

dchew

Caught the Bug
It might be worth finding out why the drag link is loose. Either the joint is worn or the hole in the knuckle has worn larger. I'm not familiar with the Synergy but the EVO flip requires you to drill out the hole and add a sleeve. If by chance your knuckle hole is worn, that drilling exercise would help your situation. Of course that knuckle is like an inch thick, and your video makes it look like a worn joint, but hard to tell.

When I installed mine a few years ago, I had a new kit but used old instructions (my fault - not EVO's) which required drilling a slightly larger hole. I drilled the hole too big and had a loose drag link just like that. No DW, but the Jeep did have a slight wander to it just driving straight down the road. I was constantly steering as a result. I tried adding washers to seat it farther, but that didn't work. Eventually EVO helped me with an old drawing so I could make a sleeve to the old spec, which solved everything.

Dave
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
dchew said:
It might be worth finding out why the drag link is loose. Either the joint is worn or the hole in the knuckle has worn larger. I'm not familiar with the Synergy but the EVO flip requires you to drill out the hole and add a sleeve. If by chance your knuckle hole is worn, that drilling exercise would help your situation. Of course that knuckle is like an inch thick, and your video makes it look like a worn joint, but hard to tell.

When I installed mine a few years ago, I had a new kit but used old instructions (my fault - not EVO's) which required drilling a slightly larger hole. I drilled the hole too big and had a loose drag link just like that. No DW, but the Jeep did have a slight wander to it just driving straight down the road. I was constantly steering as a result. I tried adding washers to seat it farther, but that didn't work. Eventually EVO helped me with an old drawing so I could make a sleeve to the old spec, which solved everything.

Dave
Click to expand...

Thats a good point i havent pulled the drag link to see if the knuckle is worn out at all. I am just worried if the joint is worn out and i pull it off to see and the joint falls apart on me, my jeep is my DD and i need it to get to work so before i pull it i would kinda like a new one ready to go haha.

Does the EVO flip kit come with the HD end only on the knuckle side then you retain the stock end at the pitman arm? My thought on the synergy one was it has 2 new ends and if my knuckle end joint failed whats stopping the other end from failing too??? but im assuming EVO wouldnt sell it that way if that issue hadnt been thought of
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
reading around on a bunch of the other threads about flips kits it sounds like the drag link shouldnt really take that much abuse and it isnt all that necessary to upgrade to a HD one. Sounds like as long as my drag link is not itself bent i can get away with buying a new end from crown, a synergy knuckle sleeve, raised track bar bracket and call it a day. (as mentioned by Strizzy in this thread http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?24572-High-steer-kits&highlight=drag+link)

could save some money and help out with my problem of the knuckle end being shot? any thoughts?
 
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