Cambolt installation

BumblebeeZA

BumblebeeZA

New member
Tonight Im installing my Rubicon Express cambolts.
I have been suffering with DW for about 3-4weeks now and Ive had enough.
Ive checked all joints, bolts alignment balancing etc. As soon as I take the lift out, DW disappears, so we have come to the conclusion it must be caster related.

I ordered cambots (the cheap and "easy way") to get as much of my caster back to normal as possible.
I only have a 2" spacer lift with Fox shocks (I had it at 2.5" but the DW really made me poop my pants).

My current caster angle is 3.5deg.

My question... Does it take long to grind out the slot for the cambolts, I want to do it tonight after work.
I only need to grind the rear side of the front axle holes to push my axle forward so a total of 4 grinding holes.

I was thinking of drilling a pilot hole first then grinding the rest out.
I have one of those die grinders and carbide burrs/bits to do the grinding.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
I 100% guarantee you that these stupid cam bolts WILL NOT fix your death wobble. All you will be left with are mounts with slots for holes and once your death wobble kicks in again, it'll loosen up the cam bolts and make things worse. Caster or the lack thereof can only help to "instigate" death wobble - NOT cause it.
 
ERAUGrad04

ERAUGrad04

Caught the Bug
^^ 100% agree. You have something going on and cam bolts *might* mask the problem (the DW goes away temporarily), however, it's going to come back. Not having enough caster can cause flighty steering, but not DW. Something is going on and it's not your caster. The low caster might help "trigger" the DW, but it ultimately is not the cause, hence not the fix.

Troubleshooting these issues can be a pain, but stick with it. Are you still running the stock trackbar and are you sure they are torqued to 125ft/lbs? Are bolt holes for the TB ovaled out? How about all of your control arms? Torqued to spec?
 
BumblebeeZA

BumblebeeZA

New member
I installed my cam bolts tonight (I know you guys said dont do it, but im desperate!)
Retorqued everything test drove and still got death wobble, drove around a corner and hit a small bump and my tyres went MAD left right left right left right! Can actually hear them screeching

Anyway, drove home slowly. removed my steering stabilizer to check it out.
Everyone tells me a steering stabilizer has got nothing to do with DW.
When I took the 1 bolt out, I could now test the resistance, now there is resistance but at certain lengths its got like 3cm of play, its loose loose loose.

Im gonna order a new Fox steering stabilizer and hope for the best.

Last week end I stripped all the steering components(joints) to check for play in the joints, and there is NOTHING, no play anywhere!
My steering wheel has quite some play, but thats coming from the steering box... well I think, I get my wife to turn the wheel and I check for play, now the only play is before the steering box, as soon as the pitman arm turn the wheels turn.
 
OverlanderJK

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
BumblebeeZA said:
I installed my cam bolts tonight (I know you guys said dont do it, but im desperate!)
Retorqued everything test drove and still got death wobble, drove around a corner and hit a small bump and my tyres went MAD left right left right left right! Can actually hear them screeching

Anyway, drove home slowly. removed my steering stabilizer to check it out.
Everyone tells me a steering stabilizer has got nothing to do with DW.
When I took the 1 bolt out, I could now test the resistance, now there is resistance but at certain lengths its got like 3cm of play, its loose loose loose.

Im gonna order a new Fox steering stabilizer and hope for the best.

Last week end I stripped all the steering components(joints) to check for play in the joints, and there is NOTHING, no play anywhere!
My steering wheel has quite some play, but thats coming from the steering box... well I think, I get my wife to turn the wheel and I check for play, now the only play is before the steering box, as soon as the pitman arm turn the wheels turn.
Click to expand...

Reading is not a strong point of yours is it?
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
BumblebeeZA said:
lol nope :doh: , but I really needed to try it, I can always weld the holes up.
I have checked everything and Im desperate :(
Click to expand...

When you say you checked "everything", what's everything and how did you check them?? Instead of throwing money at the problem, I think you should first isolate what the real problem IS. Adding a steering stabilizer is the LAST thing you want to do as it will only MASK the real problem at hand.

So again, DID YOU CHECK your ball joints WITH a dial indicator? Did you check your unit bearings with one too? You CANNOT just move it with your hands and give it a look with your eyes and call it checked.
 
BumblebeeZA

BumblebeeZA

New member
wayoflife said:
When you say you checked "everything", what's everything and how did you check them?? Instead of throwing money at the problem, I think you should first isolate what the real problem IS. Adding a steering stabilizer is the LAST thing you want to do as it will only MASK the real problem at hand.

So again, DID YOU CHECK your ball joints WITH a dial indicator? Did you check your unit bearings with one too? You CANNOT just move it with your hands and give it a look with your eyes and call it checked.
Click to expand...

I tool the trackbar, drag link and tie rod off.
I removed the joints there around the wheel hub.
Basically everything that has a joint I took it off.

I physically felt for movement, and if anything, there was a 1/4 of a hair of movement withing a joint or 2.
Before my lift, I never has this issue, I felt a slight shimmy for a second when hitting a bump but that was it.
 
JRied

JRied

New member
That sucks to see your going thru that. I was scared of DW when installing my lift because I'm still new to installing parts. Redid all arms, coils, tracbar mount, flipped the drag link, and thankfully no wobble. I did lengthen the lower front control arms to 23" but idk if that saved me anything or not
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
BumblebeeZA said:
I tool the trackbar, drag link and tie rod off.
I removed the joints there around the wheel hub.
Basically everything that has a joint I took it off.

I physically felt for movement, and if anything, there was a 1/4 of a hair of movement withing a joint or 2.
Before my lift, I never has this issue, I felt a slight shimmy for a second when hitting a bump but that was it.
Click to expand...

To be clear, you DID replace your ball joints? These are the joints that connect your knuckles to you axle end forgings or "C"? Also, you did NOT replace your unit bearings or check anything with a dial indicator as I said you NEED to do?
 
Sharkey

Sharkey

Word Ninja
Seriously OP, stop, take a deep breath, and listen to the advice you are being given before you waste a lot of time and money hiding what is causing your issue. It's obviously too late for you to listen about the cam bolts (trust us, you will be back complaining about them sooner rather than latter but such is life), but a steering stabilizer is going to do nothing to solve the problem and will potentially make the problem worse because it could hide what is really happening with your front end.
 
CJW

CJW

New member
BumblebeeZA said:
I installed my cam bolts tonight (I know you guys said dont do it, but im desperate!)
Retorqued everything test drove and still got death wobble, drove around a corner and hit a small bump and my tyres went MAD left right left right left right! Can actually hear them screeching

Anyway, drove home slowly. removed my steering stabilizer to check it out.
Everyone tells me a steering stabilizer has got nothing to do with DW.
When I took the 1 bolt out, I could now test the resistance, now there is resistance but at certain lengths its got like 3cm of play, its loose loose loose.

Im gonna order a new Fox steering stabilizer and hope for the best.

Last week end I stripped all the steering components(joints) to check for play in the joints, and there is NOTHING, no play anywhere!
My steering wheel has quite some play, but thats coming from the steering box... well I think, I get my wife to turn the wheel and I check for play, now the only play is before the steering box, as soon as the pitman arm turn the wheels turn.
Click to expand...

Not saying this is the only problem your jeep is having but, if you found an issue with your steering box why aren't you focusing on that? Again, not that this is your main issue but I would work on the broken parts first.
 
Jk909

Jk909

New member
I don't get why some people experience this problem and others don't. I have a 3" lift without adjustable control arms and mine handles great. I'll eventually order them but I'm in no rush
 
JKbrick

JKbrick

Active Member
Jk909 said:
I don't get why some people experience this problem and others don't. I have a 3" lift without adjustable control arms and mine handles great. I'll eventually order them but I'm in no rush
Click to expand...

Probably because caster does not cause death wobble I don't think. I have 3.5" of lift with a steering flip kit and stock arms and have never had an issue either. Just a touch flighty. I recently purchased Currie arms from Northridge because I know I need them to be correct.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Jk909 said:
I don't get why some people experience this problem and others don't. I have a 3" lift without adjustable control arms and mine handles great. I'll eventually order them but I'm in no rush
Click to expand...

EVERYONE with a solid front axle regardless of vehicle make is prone to get death wobble IF you have loose or worn out suspension/steering components. It's just the nature of the beast and even stock vehicles can get it. Running bigger tires and wheels with less back spacing will speed up the wear of your components. Installing a lift and not tightening your bolts to the proper torque spec will lead to death wobble as well.
 
BumblebeeZA

BumblebeeZA

New member
Thanks guys!

Ok just to get everyone on the same page and how I got to where I am re the DW.

I never had it before the lift, I felt a sliiiiggghhht shimmy going over a bump and that was it.
I then got a 2.5" spacer lift (spacers only, no other bits and pieces)
I installed the spacers and the DW started.

I took them out and no more DW, I then machined them down 20% to get a 2" lift.
DW wobble gone only the slight shimmy as before the lift.
Day 3 and DW came back.

I then got FOX performance 2.0 shocks 1.5"-3.5" lift
DW wobble gone only the slight shimmy as before the lift.
Day 3 and DW came back.

I now installed the Cambolts, and it has help nothing.

Last night I checked my steering stabilizer and noticed it was shot, it has 3cm of play in it.
Now I know you say the steering stabilizer has nothing to do with DW, but Im sure it will certainly help getting a new one in my case.
I will be sending my Jeep in for another check, I just dont trust our dealers here in South Africa, and dont feel comfortable leaving it with the "Jeep specialists" either.

I had 255/75R17 GY Wrangler AT tyres on, I took them off and put 245/75R17 GY Wrangler AT tyres on on to see if that will help, and no it never helped.
My DW is most prone when going around a corner over any size bumps and almost any speed above 50km/h (31mph).
This is where I noticed the SS has the most play too, when extending the stabilizer in or out it has play at a certain length, either way.

My steering box, I dont think is worn out, the play I have seems normal reference to other pre 2012 models.
My Jeep is a 2008 JKUR, 76 000km's (47 000 Miles)

I deflated my front tyres down from 2.4 bar to 2.2bar this morning to hopefully dampen the DW a bit. I drove too slow to work this morning to NOT trigger DW and will drive slow back home tonight, DW is just making me change my underwear to much now :cheesy:
 
Last edited:
olram30

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
You were told can bolts would do nothing, you've been told your steering stabilizer would do nothing. Why you're so persistent on believing that the ss is going to fix anything is amazing.
You have worn out and, or lose parts on your jeep. Bottom line..
Are you using a torque wrench?
Have you checked ball joints, tie rod end, track bar bushings, hubs?
There are technical things like scrub angle and kpi, but I'm not going to fill your brain with this.
You've been given great advice on how to fix your jeep, but you're not listening. I really wish I or other members could help you, but we can't if you don't listen. Good luck fixing this. I wish you luck.
 
BumblebeeZA

BumblebeeZA

New member
olram30 said:
You were told can bolts would do nothing, you've been told your steering stabilizer would do nothing. Why you're so persistent on believing that the ss is going to fix anything is amazing.
You have worn out and, or lose parts on your jeep. Bottom line..
Are you using a torque wrench?
Have you checked ball joints, tie rod end, track bar bushings, hubs?
There are technical things like scrub angle and kpi, but I'm not going to fill your brain with this.
You've been given great advice on how to fix your jeep, but you're not listening. I really wish I or other members could help you, but we can't if you don't listen. Good luck fixing this. I wish you luck.
Click to expand...


I hear you.
I installed the cam bolts as that is what the "Jeep Specialist" said I must do first before he want to tackle the rest.
I did it and never helped, trust me, last night I was fighting real hard not to install them.

If I could ship my Jeep to you guys to sort out, Id do it, as I trust you guys know what you doing.
Here, the guys wont touch it until you've done what they've asked first.

Im not saying that the steering stabilizer is going to fix it, Im just saying it is shot, and needs replacement.
Im sending my Jeep in on Monday to get all the joints professionally checked as recommended here.

I am using a torque wrench yes.

Lower control arms, 125ft lbs
Trackbar, 125 ft lbs
 
HighwayTrout

HighwayTrout

Hooked
Why on earth do people think a steering stabilizer will fix death wobble?

I own three vehicles with solid front axles. My JK being the only one of the three that has a SS. Only because it came with one from the factory. They are NOT a necessary part to help align or prevent lateral movement!
Guess what is though.. A track bar. Hmmmm


OP needs to follow the advice that was given.
 
BumblebeeZA

BumblebeeZA

New member
HighwayTrout said:
Why on earth do people think a steering stabilizer will fix death wobble?

I own three vehicles with solid front axles. My JK being the only one of the three that has a SS. Only because it came with one from the factory. They are NOT a necessary part to help align or prevent lateral movement!
Guess what is though.. A track bar. Hmmmm


OP needs to follow the advice that was given.
Click to expand...


Agreed, Ill take a deep breath and start over :blush:

Tonight, Ill check my track bar again.
Then next week Im getting the joints and bearings checked professionally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom