JK Unlimited Rubicon/Wrangler Suspension - Fitment Question - Control Arms?

TheDude73

New member
A few questions (they're at the end after my novel if you prefer not reading) - I have a 2010 JK Unlimited Rubicon with the AEV 3.5 DS SC lift installed. I just bought this used in February with only 31,000 miles, and have started the task of replacing bushings and bolts, not only for the reasons that the bushings look like crap already (dry rotting is common here in Colorado), and that I've already had one bout of DW, but for peace of mind. So far, this is what I've done:

-Replaced bushings (Energy Suspension) and bolts (9/16" grade 8) in front and rear track bars.
-Replaced front & rear sway bar end links with JKS (bushings were shot, and the end link lock and jam nuts wouldn't torque all the way onto the upper sway bar junction, resulting in essentially loose links).
-Tightened all other nuts on suspension to proper specifications.
-Replaced very soft and exhausted Bilstein steering stabilizer with new OME unit.
-Analyzed the entire AEV lift kit for proper install per their most recently-published instructions (earlier versions, pre-2014, had the end links flipped to in-board install rather than stock outboard, but Jan 2014 edition states they should remain outboard on the rear and inboard on the front). Only found a couple of things - the rear track bar bolt (AEV's kit supplies a new track bar and tower for rear) on the driver side was installed incorrectly - inserted from rear to front - which had the end of the bolt rubbing on the coil spring and causing a funny squeaking/honking-type sound. Turning the bolts around the other direction (front to rear), stopped the rubbing, and the noise.
-Confirmed the drag link flip kit was installed, and control arm drop brackets included with AEV kit were present (they were, but they appear to have also used cam bolts, which I hear isn't the best approach).
-Boots on the rear Bilstein 5100s were completely off due to zip ties dry rotting. Reinstalled all with clamps instead of zip ties.

What I will be doing this weekend to finalize the clean up:

-Installing new 35x12.50x17 BFG KMRs to replace the current stock BFGs. Will retain stock wheels (already have 1.5" spacers installed). Unrelated to suspension work, part of my weekend to-do list entails Dupli-color lining of the stock rims.
-Replacing other nuts/bolts with 9/16" grade 8 (control arms mainly).

In the near future:

-Possibly remove AEV control arm brackets and replace stock arms with aftermarket adjustable. Not sure on this - I've read mixed opinions with this AEV lift kit, and am not worried about gaining what little additional clearance would be had from this option. May just weld on control arm skid plates and keep the stocks as they are pretty cheap to replace.
-Re-gear to 5.38s: shop locally does the entire Rubicon re-gearing for $875 out the door (a bit more if bearings and seals get replaced, which I would have him do while he was in there anyway).
-Remove wheel spacers and replace stock wheels with black AEV Pintlers.

And if you've made it this far, here are my questions:

I ordered replacement bushings for all 8 control arms from Energy Suspension. I understand that they apparently result in a less-smooth ride, and some have advised that for the price ($160 for front and rear bushing kits), I could easily find control arm take-offs and slap them in there to retain the stock feel and ride.

I have found a guy locally here in Denver that has what he claims to be the full set of control arms for sale off of his 2015 "JK Wrangler". His photo shows only six arms - four lower, and two upper.

Question 1) He says "full set", but only shows 6 in the photo. Aren't there four lower and four upper for a total of 8? Or do newer models or non-Rubicon styles have only 6 rather than 8?

Question 2) Is there a difference in quantity and/or quality between the JK Wrangler and the JK Rubicon, and 2015 vs. 2010, or are the CAs all the same regardless of body style and model year?

Question 3) Assuming he does have 8, and they are identical in design and quality to Rubicon (if his isn't a Rubi model), should there be a fitment concern when pulling from a 2015 and bolting to a 2010?

Question 4) Loctite on suspension bolts or no? If so, which ones? I've seen some use it everywhere, and some only in places. Specifically the track bars, end links and control arms?

He's asking $100 or best offer and just yanked them off of his 2015 with only 300 miles, so this is quite a bit cheaper and less effort than bushing replacement.

Thanks in advance for your help! Happy to be back on a Jeep forum (this is my 4th Wrangler, but it's been a while!).
 
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wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
LOL!! That's a quick question??

You'll have to give me a bit while I read through all this :crazyeyes:
 

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
there is no difference between models on control arms. i guess go check the out. also crown automotive sells replacement arms for 30 bucks each. brand new.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
:cheesy: You're kidding me, right?

For the love of god, save your money and stop throwing it at your Jeep. NONE of it is going to help and in some cases, make things worse! There is nothing wrong with your bushings and you're kidding yourself if you think that just by being in Colorado that they will dry rot more than a place like the Nevada desert, you know, the DRIEST place in the United States.

IF you really insist on replacing your bushings with squeaky and harsh polyurethane ones, knock yourself out. As far as your bolts go, can I have your factory ones? I will pay to have them shipped to me :yup:
 

07JKSahara

New member
. As far as your bolts go, can I have your factory ones? I will pay to have them shipped to me :yup:

This was a great way to start the day for me!!! Hilarious!

OP, it's been proven many times that factory hardware is plenty good to run on any jeep. That's were we can save you some money.
 

TheDude73

New member
I guess I need to preface a bit - while I've had a few Jeeps over the past 20 years, DIY suspension-specific work on them is new to me, and what little experience I do have consisted of only a few basic things on a TJ Rubicon years ago.

However, I'm trying to get the best information from the more experienced so that I have some semblance of the correct approach and don't overspend, or over task myself with unnecessary work.

This is the first of all of the forums I've visited over the past month or so that has this stance on hardware replacement. And the bushings - I've read probably 30 different forums spanning from 2009 to 2015 on death wobble diagnosis and shoring up older suspension - all of them state that bushing replacement should be of top priority. Again, this is the first that also laughs at that idea. As an engineer, I have my own opinions, but being new here and knowing how discussions / debates with highly-experienced and confident natives tends to turn out, I'll just keep it as my personal opinion and go from there.

Regarding the dry rotting of bushings and other rubber components - it's pretty common here, even tires dry rot a bit faster than in other areas. If you could see the bushings on my Jeep, you'd probably agree that they indeed need replacing. Is it worse than Nevada? I've no idea - most likely not. But I wasn't stating that Colorado was the worst place on earth for dry rot - I was stating that it's common here and mine definitely are dry rotted and loose.

Thanks for the info on Crown for replacements - had no idea that place was around. And thanks for the answers on the other questions.
 

Rccrwlr

New member
I guess I need to preface a bit - while I've had a few Jeeps over the past 20 years, DIY suspension-specific work on them is new to me, and what little experience I do have consisted of only a few basic things on a TJ Rubicon years ago.

However, I'm trying to get the best information from the more experienced so that I have some semblance of the correct approach and don't overspend, or over task myself with unnecessary work.

This is the first of all of the forums I've visited over the past month or so that has this stance on hardware replacement. And the bushings - I've read probably 30 different forums spanning from 2009 to 2015 on death wobble diagnosis and shoring up older suspension - all of them state that bushing replacement should be of top priority. Again, this is the first that also laughs at that idea. As an engineer, I have my own opinions, but being new here and knowing how discussions / debates with highly-experienced and confident natives tends to turn out, I'll just keep it as my personal opinion and go from there.

Regarding the dry rotting of bushings and other rubber components - it's pretty common here, even tires dry rot a bit faster than in other areas. If you could see the bushings on my Jeep, you'd probably agree that they indeed need replacing. Is it worse than Nevada? I've no idea - most likely not. But I wasn't stating that Colorado was the worst place on earth for dry rot - I was stating that it's common here and mine definitely are dry rotted and loose.

Thanks for the info on Crown for replacements - had no idea that place was around. And thanks for the answers on the other questions.

A few words here. Pictures, pictures, pictures. We can't see what you are seeing. If your new to all of this then post a few pics of the bushings so those that know can help you.
 

piginajeep

The Original Smartass
I guess I need to preface a bit - while I've had a few Jeeps over the past 20 years, DIY suspension-specific work on them is new to me, and what little experience I do have consisted of only a few basic things on a TJ Rubicon years ago.

However, I'm trying to get the best information from the more experienced so that I have some semblance of the correct approach and don't overspend, or over task myself with unnecessary work.

This is the first of all of the forums I've visited over the past month or so that has this stance on hardware replacement. And the bushings - I've read probably 30 different forums spanning from 2009 to 2015 on death wobble diagnosis and shoring up older suspension - all of them state that bushing replacement should be of top priority. Again, this is the first that also laughs at that idea. As an engineer, I have my own opinions, but being new here and knowing how discussions / debates with highly-experienced and confident natives tends to turn out, I'll just keep it as my personal opinion and go from there.

Regarding the dry rotting of bushings and other rubber components - it's pretty common here, even tires dry rot a bit faster than in other areas. If you could see the bushings on my Jeep, you'd probably agree that they indeed need replacing. Is it worse than Nevada? I've no idea - most likely not. But I wasn't stating that Colorado was the worst place on earth for dry rot - I was stating that it's common here and mine definitely are dry rotted and loose.

Thanks for the info on Crown for replacements - had no idea that place was around. And thanks for the answers on the other questions.

Lol, you do realize that 99% of the morons on the internet read and repeat right?
 

TheDude73

New member
A few words here. Pictures, pictures, pictures. We can't see what you are seeing. If your new to all of this then post a few pics of the bushings so those that know can help you.

I will update tomorrow and/or Friday evening with photos as needed - at work now and don't typically take photos of these things for my own personal library.

I will also hold off on the bolt replacement and stick to just keeping the torque wrench with me in the Jeep, but for peace of mind I will still probably just get the take off control arms from the guy here locally and return the expensive Energy Suspension poly bushings.

Any other advice - namely the Loctite question? Do or don't on suspension components?

Thanks again.
 

TheDude73

New member
:cheesy:You're kidding me, right?

I'm not sure I understand this reply. Kidding you how? I asked a question seeking responses and advice from those obviously more experienced in DIY Jeep suspensions than myself. I did not expect mockery right out of the gate, particularly from the main guy.

For the love of god, save your money and stop throwing it at your Jeep. NONE of it is going to help and in some cases, make things worse!

So your advice is that nothing I stated having done or plan to do will help anything? And might make things worse? Given your expertise, I'd have hoped for some elaboration on this. Or just point me somewhere if the questions seem too absurd to you to take the time to answer.

There is nothing wrong with your bushings and you're kidding yourself if you think that just by being in Colorado that they will dry rot more than a place like the Nevada desert, you know, the DRIEST place in the United States.

I kid myself because I stated that things dry rot here and that my bushings (and tires) are indeed suffering because of it? I didn't say this is the worst on earth, and never mentioned Nevada. I didn't even imply that bushings rot faster in CO than other places. Just that they are known to dry rot here, and that mine are clearly troublesome.

Looking at a few of my bushings, they're pretty rough and cracked. So with your expertise, cracked, dry-looking track bar, end link and control arm bushings are probably just fine. I suppose I should provide photos because apparently there are varying levels of "cracking" that would deem a bushing to be bad enough for replacement. I'll save myself the trouble of posting photos and tell you that the cracks are bad enough that on the track bar and two of the lower control arm bushings, I can see light - through the bushing, and lightly poking at them with a flat-tipped screwdriver results in dry rubber particulate falling out. The end link boots/bushings have crumbled into pieces. But apparently, there's nothing at all wrong with this scenario, and the 99% of those on the internet that think dry rotted, crumbling bushings should be replaced are just mindless, information-regurgitating idiots that should be ignored.


IF you really insist on replacing your bushings with squeaky and harsh polyurethane ones, knock yourself out. As far as your bolts go, can I have your factory ones? I will pay to have them shipped to me :yup:

You have an interesting way of delivering advice. I am not insisting on replacing them - in fact, one of my questions was - is it best to not replace them with the polyurethane and just get take-off or new stock CAs with stock rubber bushings? Pretty straight forward and in no way was I trying to insist the poly replacement approach was the best.

Guess if I'm going to ask for advice around this place, I'd better thicken the skin. I just hope one day down the road when I've packed up years of DIY Jeep experience, and am asked by new Jeepers to provide advice from that experience, that I stay humble and remember that I haven't always known it all and had to start somewhere myself.

Thanks again for the help.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
This is the first of all of the forums I've visited over the past month or so that has this stance on hardware replacement. And the bushings - I've read probably 30 different forums spanning from 2009 to 2015 on death wobble diagnosis and shoring up older suspension - all of them state that bushing replacement should be of top priority. Again, this is the first that also laughs at that idea.

So do yourself a favor and have faith in whatever you've read on all the other forums. :yup:

As an engineer, I have my own opinions, but being new here and knowing how discussions / debates with highly-experienced and confident natives tends to turn out, I'll just keep it as my personal opinion and go from there.

:cheesy: Oh come on, you can just put something like that out there and then throw in how you'll just keep your personal opinions to yourself. By all means, being that you're an engineer, you should be a man with some facts to back up what you seem to believe. Please do enlighten us and maybe we can learn a thing or two from you. :yup:

Regarding the dry rotting of bushings and other rubber components - it's pretty common here, even tires dry rot a bit faster than in other areas. If you could see the bushings on my Jeep, you'd probably agree that they indeed need replacing. Is it worse than Nevada? I've no idea - most likely not. But I wasn't stating that Colorado was the worst place on earth for dry rot - I was stating that it's common here and mine definitely are dry rotted and loose.

Never said that Colorado was the worst place on earth for dry rot - I was merely trying to make the point that you most likely are NOT in need of replacing your bushings but hey, what do I know. It's your Jeep and you should throw all the money at it that you want :yup:
 

JK_Dave

Caught the Bug
I can't see how Loctite would be a bad idea, but I'd still hit the bolt heads with some paint pen lines so you can quickly monitor torque settings without breaking out your wrench.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure I understand this reply. Kidding you how? I asked a question seeking responses and advice from those obviously more experienced in DIY Jeep suspensions than myself. I did not expect mockery right out of the gate, particularly from the main guy.

:cheesy: Of course you don't understand. You're just guy who's been on 30 different forums spanning from 2009 to 2015, just happens to signs up here to ask questions to answers he already thinks he has the answer and to people he claims is "obviously more experienced" and then acts surprised at the responses he gets. :crazyeyes:

So your advice is that nothing I stated having done or plan to do will help anything? And might make things worse? Given your expertise, I'd have hoped for some elaboration on this. Or just point me somewhere if the questions seem too absurd to you to take the time to answer.

My advice to you is to do what you want based on the knowledge you seem to think you already have from your engineering background and the 30 different forums you've been reading from 2009 to 2015.

I kid myself because I stated that things dry rot here and that my bushings (and tires) are indeed suffering because of it? I didn't say this is the worst on earth, and never mentioned Nevada. I didn't even imply that bushings rot faster in CO than other places. Just that they are known to dry rot here, and that mine are clearly troublesome.

So you say. I know plenty of people in Colorado and you're the first to ever make this claim. But hey, I'm no engineer. :cool:

Looking at a few of my bushings, they're pretty rough and cracked. So with your expertise, cracked, dry-looking track bar, end link and control arm bushings are probably just fine. I suppose I should provide photos because apparently there are varying levels of "cracking" that would deem a bushing to be bad enough for replacement. I'll save myself the trouble of posting photos and tell you that the cracks are bad enough that on the track bar and two of the lower control arm bushings, I can see light - through the bushing, and lightly poking at them with a flat-tipped screwdriver results in dry rubber particulate falling out. The end link boots/bushings have crumbled into pieces. But apparently, there's nothing at all wrong with this scenario, and the 99% of those on the internet that think dry rotted, crumbling bushings should be replaced are just mindless, information-regurgitating idiots that should be ignored.

Never said they weren't in need of replacing, just that more than likely, they are not and only based off of everything else you've said in your long winded quick question.

You have an interesting way of delivering advice. I am not insisting on replacing them - in fact, one of my questions was - is it best to not replace them with the polyurethane and just get take-off or new stock CAs with stock rubber bushings? Pretty straight forward and in no way was I trying to insist the poly replacement approach was the best.

And you have an interesting way of asking a quick question. Absolutely nothing straight forward about it to me but hey, what do I know.

Guess if I'm going to ask for advice around this place, I'd better thicken the skin. I just hope one day down the road when I've packed up years of DIY Jeep experience, and am asked by new Jeepers to provide advice from that experience, that I stay humble and remember that I haven't always known it all and had to start somewhere myself.

If you haven't learned even a little Jeep experience in the 20 years you've owned Jeeps and being that you're an engineer, I think it'll be a while longer for you. :crazyeyes:
 

TheDude73

New member
I can't see how Loctite would be a bad idea, but I'd still hit the bolt heads with some paint pen lines so you can quickly monitor torque settings without breaking out your wrench.

Thanks for the (tactful) advice - I hadn't thought about the paint pen idea. Good plan.
 

10frank9

Web Wheeler
Why is it that engineers have a history of coming here and spewing the same "I'm smarter than you" rhetoric? Dude.....
 

TheDude73

New member
Why is it that engineers have a history of coming here and spewing the same "I'm smarter than you" rhetoric? Dude.....

That's not what I was doing. I was laying it out there so that the responses would be non-laymen in content. I said I have my own opinions on the bolt replacement, but didn't feel this was the place to share it given my uncertainty that my opinion is even accurate.

I'm interested in advice from people that have more experience than I do. Stating that I've seen 20+ others say the opposite with regards to bolt / hardware replacement in the suspension was in no way a jab at those on this forum. It was an attempt to understand if in fact people here had some bit of knowledge that somehow hadn't weeded its way to other forums. Perhaps I didn't word it properly, but that was my intent.

Some people are so defensive and jump to conclusions that everyone is out to attack their knowledge. That couldn't be more wrong in this case. I'm respectful of people that have this experience, which is why I came here to begin with. I noticed the FAQ had a quick jab at the bolt/hardware replacement running around the Jeep community, and since this was the first I'd heard of this viewpoint, I felt like this might be a better place to get answers to questions prior to my weekend garage time.

I originally joined to use the For Sale forum to track down replacement control arms, but after seeing so many differing opinions all over the web from people claiming just as much "expertise" as pretty much anyone else on the web, I felt it was best to ask the questions directly.

At any rate, I'm hoping to continue visiting and extracting advice from those of you with experience.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
That's not what I was doing. I was laying it out there so that the responses would be non-laymen in content. I said I have my own opinions on the bolt replacement, but didn't feel this was the place to share it given my uncertainty that my opinion is even accurate.

As an engineer, you of all people should know that when it comes to bolts, there are FACTS to back up what you need and how they should be used. OPINIONS are for people who don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

I'm interested in advice from people that have more experience than I do. Stating that I've seen 20+ others say the opposite with regards to bolt / hardware replacement in the suspension was in no way a jab at those on this forum. It was an attempt to understand if in fact people here had some bit of knowledge that somehow hadn't weeded its way to other forums. Perhaps I didn't word it properly, but that was my intent.

Some people are so defensive and jump to conclusions that everyone is out to attack their knowledge. That couldn't be more wrong in this case. I'm respectful of people that have this experience, which is why I came here to begin with. I noticed the FAQ had a quick jab at the bolt/hardware replacement running around the Jeep community, and since this was the first I'd heard of this viewpoint, I felt like this might be a better place to get answers to questions prior to my weekend garage time.

LOL!! Let's be clear and state for the record that what you've read in that thread is FACT and not just some kind of "viewpoint" that you can find on 30 other forums filled with self-proclaimed internet smart guys.

I originally joined to use the For Sale forum to track down replacement control arms, but after seeing so many differing opinions all over the web from people claiming just as much "expertise" as pretty much anyone else on the web, I felt it was best to ask the questions directly.

At any rate, I'm hoping to continue visiting and extracting advice from those of you with experience.

If you really are having death wobble issues, have you taken the time to check your ball joints or unit bearings?
 

TheDude73

New member
If you really are having death wobble issues, have you taken the time to check your ball joints or unit bearings?

I did not even think about ball joints until I read your FAQ this morning. I will be utilizing the method you suggest there.

Thanks.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
I did not even think about ball joints until I read your FAQ this morning. I will be utilizing the method you suggest there.

Thanks.

Outside of a loose track bar, bad ball joints are literally the next biggest reason why people get death wobble.
 
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