Evo drag link flip or no?

Apologies if this has ever been covered, but I looked for a couple days for different aspects of my issues and haven't found answers...

Here's my question and issue, leading into dilemma... have my take off springs (17/59) and rubi shocks which netted me 2" at each corner, then finally installed 1.75" coil spacers (holding me over until I get the 3" enforcer kit I want, evetually).

With that, I have no idea how to figure out what my actual lift height would be considered now either since technically the springs aren't a "lift", correct? My issue is with the springs only I noticed a slight difference in steering with the "flighty" feeling but when I installed the spacers, huge difference in steering and not in a good way. Posted a while back that I picked up the drop brackets (free) to see if they would help at all. Not so much with steering but with brake dive a bit. I was going to hold out on the adj LCA's until I picked up the enforcer kit, but which would help more (or both maybe): the drag link flip kit, adj LCA's, or both? Would one make more difference over the other? If the drag link flip kit is for 3", would that work with my set up? Other than what I've mentioned, the only other difference from stock is the sway bar end links within suspension.

Any assistance with this would be phenomenal. Been trying to figure out which would be more beneficial now and what can wait. The enforcer is NOT in the cards yet, that's for damn sure... (unfortunately)

What is your caster? That will let you know how much you "need" LCAs.

Also measure your actual lift

If you use that chart and have 3+" of lift and decide to do the drag link flip, which I would suggest you do to get back to factory steering geometry, make sure you have 3" bump stops up front also

mds22 said:

What is your caster? That will let you know how much you "need" LCAs.

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I will have to do this check again since my dumbass forgot to write it down last time I checked it. I can tell you it definitely didn't look right if at stock it should equal 6° (pretty sure), 4.2° caster and 1.8° pinion, but correct me if that's not accurate please. With the drop brackets, I was still around 1-1.5° on the pumpkin but on the flange was like 2°. My driveway is about 1° slope which I did my best to factor in when measuring. Like I said, I'll do it again tomorrow and make sure these figures are correct. But I remember thinking I did it wrong because the numbers were so far off. But nope, they were right.

mds22 said:

Also measure your actual lift View attachment 158018

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This I will do tomorrow as well. I remember seeing this diagram once before, but of course couldn't find it when I needed it. Thank you for that! More to follow when I measure.

JKbrick said:

If you use that chart and have 3+" of lift and decide to do the drag link flip, which I would suggest you do to get back to factory steering geometry, make sure you have 3" bump stops up front also

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Good call. If I do measure that high, I will add that to the list. I figure if I get the DL flip kit now, I can take that off my wishlist from the enforcer kit. Eventually I'll get back to just the kit without the extras I think. It's going to be probably a year before I can realistically plan on purchasing so I need to figure this steering out for the time being. If I get the flip kit first (assuming I'm 3+") and then get adj LCA's I should be good until I can budget the kit.

Last time I looked at bumpstops there were so many options I wasn't sure which way to go and haven't thought about asking until now. Thoughts or recommendations? Also not trying to break the bank on these either. I don't do enough hard wheeling to justify mamma jamma bumpstops but effective is good. Thanks in advance

mds22 said:

Also measure your actual lift

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Took the measurements of my "actual" lift this morning and these are the numbers I came out with (measured twice to be sure):

Shock height: 21.25"

Coil height: 12.125"

Compared to stock height for both I am .25" shy of 3" actual lift, correct? With that in mind, would the flip kit still be an option at the moment? This is what I don't understand... The stock springs I originally had (14/55) that came with my JK were replaced with the 17/59 springs off a 4 dr hardtop with MTP. That netted me 2". So technically I was "lifted" 2", right? When I added the 1.75" coil spacers (BB), plus the SB end links, CA drop brackets, and brake line relo brackets, the steering was MUCH more noticeably "flighty". Although I figured the drop brackets wouldn't be a great solution (as read on the forum), I had hoped they helped at least a bit with steering, but only notice a slight difference with the brake dive... either way not much improvement. So does this all mean the springs are compressed a bit more with the spacers installed? It would appear that way to me, but I suppose I'm just looking for some kind of validation to what I'm merely assuming is the case. Understanding that may be difficult without actually seeing it, however majority of folks here have much more experience than I do with this.

Reason I was thinking about trying to do the drag link flip kit now was because that is an add-on item for the evo enforcer, but the adjustable LCA's are included in the kit. So if the possibility exists that the DL flip kit will help with the caster/steering geometry problem, I would rather go that route rather than the LCA's even though the LCA's are cheaper by themselves... Does that makes sense? If not, someone slap me.

joshuaj21 said:

Took the measurements of my "actual" lift this morning and these are the numbers I came out with (measured twice to be sure):

Shock height: 21.25"

Coil height: 12.125"

Compared to stock height for both I am .25" shy of 3" actual lift, correct? With that in mind, would the flip kit still be an option at the moment? This is what I don't understand... The stock springs I originally had (14/55) that came with my JK were replaced with the 17/59 springs off a 4 dr hardtop with MTP. That netted me 2". So technically I was "lifted" 2", right? When I added the 1.75" coil spacers (BB), plus the SB end links, CA drop brackets, and brake line relo brackets, the steering was MUCH more noticeably "flighty". Although I figured the drop brackets wouldn't be a great solution (as read on the forum), I had hoped they helped at least a bit with steering, but only notice a slight difference with the brake dive... either way not much improvement. So does this all mean the springs are compressed a bit more with the spacers installed? It would appear that way to me, but I suppose I'm just looking for some kind of validation to what I'm merely assuming is the case. Understanding that may be difficult without actually seeing it, however majority of folks here have much more experience than I do with this.

Reason I was thinking about trying to do the drag link flip kit now was because that is an add-on item for the evo enforcer, but the adjustable LCA's are included in the kit. So if the possibility exists that the DL flip kit will help with the caster/steering geometry problem, I would rather go that route rather than the LCA's even though the LCA's are cheaper by themselves... Does that makes sense? If not, someone slap me.

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I doubt the spring swap netted you 2", that would mean 2.5 up front and 1.5 in the rear. You probably didn't measure correctly in the beginning. My experience stock springs add between .25" and .5" per spring number. But I've only dealt with 4 doors so who knows.
With 2.75" of lift up front now w/ a 1.75 spacer means you only got 1" from the coil swap.

I personally would not spent the money on the flip. Spend $$ to loose 1/4 inch of up travel( 3" bumpstops w/2.75 of lift) but it's your money. Take a pic off your track bar/drag link, are they parallel?

Did you get a caster reading? W/ 2.75 of lift and no LCAs I'm sure you need to correct your caster more than flip your drag link

mds22 said:

I doubt the spring swap netted you 2", that would mean 2.5 up front and 1.5 in the rear. You probably didn't measure correctly in the beginning. My experience stock springs add between .25" and .5" per spring number. But I've only dealt with 4 doors so who knows.
With 2.75" of lift up front now w/ a 1.75 spacer means you only got 1" from the coil swap.

I personally would not spent the money on the flip. Spend $$ to loose 1/4 inch of up travel( 3" bumpstops w/2.75 of lift) but it's your money. Take a pic off your track bar/drag link, are they parallel?

Did you get a caster reading? W/ 2.75 of lift and no LCAs I'm sure you need to correct your caster more than flip your drag link

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I suppose I should have clarified earlier... When I first did the coil swap, I took two measurements, first with a carpenter's angle with a level measured from center of each wheel to the bottom of the fender flare before and after spring swap. I don't remember what the measurements were, but I do remember that I was 2" higher in front and just under 2" rear, but all four measurements were the same. That confused me a bit considering there was no leveling kit installed at the time, but didn't think much of it because I was happy to finally do 'something' to my JK for the first time since we bought it. The other measurement was from the diagram, but that was the first time I'd seen/done that, probably didn't do it correctly and have no idea what they measured now. Measured again today, but from the springs/shocks only as you mentioned. That is what I will go off from now on as it is clearly a more accurate method. The previous method was mentioned in the forum when I first started reading about mods, tech, etc... So much info, so little brain space. (lol)

Don't get me wrong, I am definitely not trying to say that what I netted was right, just what I thought was right due to my own ignorance. I'm still learning a lot of the "in between" stuff that seems to be common knowledge here and I appreciate all the feedback and corrections from everyone. No issues admitting I'm wrong, believe me, just ask my wife... Anyway, I will take a pic of the TB/DL in a few minutes and post it up. Not sure if they are parallel or not, but will let you know. Hey man, I'm all about spending wisely. No sense on spending $$ on something right now that isn't going to solve my current problem. The only reason I asked about the two was mostly a lack of understanding of what all the benefits were of the DL flip kit vs adj LCA's and which would be a more effective solution. I suppose I could always just get a straw and suck it up until I can afford to throw down the moola for the Enforcer kit, but hey patience is a virtue that gets tested from time to time...

I will take pics of a new caster reading when I get home and see again what the exact measurements are again. More to follow on that... Don't laugh, but does the steering geometry have anything to do with caster or vice versa? I understand the DL flip kit does a lot for the steering geo, but does it correct any of the feeling I'm getting at the moment with how it handles or how does that work? Similar with the LCA's, would the adj arms have any affect on geo if they are correcting negative caster? It seems like it would change the angle of the pinion if it is rolled back up, even slightly? Or am I really over thinking this? I think I just went cross-eyed.

Question with another question... I've read/heard about the whole axle offset with a lift and re-centering the axle is, if I understand this correctly, more of a personal preference, correct? Just asking because I happened to notice a slight offset this morning when I measured the lift and had just read something that Eddie said recently. At least I think that's what he was getting at? Point is, I'm just curious if that has any effect on how it drives or handles and if it needs to be corrected (eventually) or doesn't matter?

Here's a shot of the undercarriage.

joshuaj21 said:

Here's a shot of the undercarriage.

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Looks parallel to me. I wouldn't change a thing. At 2.75 I would def center my axle with an adj track bar up front and prob a track bar bracket in the rear.

If you are 100% getting an Enforcer kit in the future, but can't afford it now, you have 3 options
1) do nothing. Wheel it how it is until you buy the whole thing.
2) remove your spacers, run the higher rated springs that leveled you out until you buy the EVO Kit
3) start pricing together the Enforcer kit with what your budget allows. LCAs, front track bar, rear bracket, break lines, bumpstops, coils, etc... Just buy as you can afford until you have it all.

Me... I would loose the spacers, solve my problems, save for an Enforcer

Option 2 sounds like the smart thing to do... I like the ride height but it hardly seems worth losing the handling for less than 2"... besides, I will be chopping my fenders before the summer is over so that should make it a bit more aesthetically pleasing as well. Thanks for the advice on all this. Much appreciated!

Have you done an alignment? Also keep in mind that the 3" enforcer will put you at or over 4" of lift on a 2 door. So you will need to be looking at driveshafts and rear upper control arms.

Big b said:

Have you done an alignment? Also keep in mind that the 3" enforcer will put you at or over 4" of lift on a 2 door. So you will need to be looking at driveshafts and rear upper control arms.

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Only gone thru the alignment write-up from Eddie a while back after I first installed the springs but haven't noticed any issues with alignment since. Could that be a related issue? And thanks for the heads up with the enforcer. Hadn't figured that into the build, but have now! I've read about folks installing new driveshafts but the general consensus seems to be drive it til it breaks then replace as needed. So with that any suggestions for drive shafts? Would it be necessary to replace both front and rear or one or the other? How does that work? Much appreciated!