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View Full Version : DEATH WOBBLE : What it is, What it isn't and What You Can Do to Fix it



wayoflife
01-05-2012, 08:42 PM
There are few things more terrifying than experiencing "death wobble" in your Jeep for the very first time. More times than not, it'll happen out of the blue soon after hitting a bump in the road or a pot hole, driving over a rough set of rail road tracks or even after driving over rhythmic sections of expansion joints in a concrete laid highway. The sensation is unbelievably violent and so much so that it can feels as if your whole Jeep is about to tear itself apart. You literally feel as if you're about to die and the only way to get it to stop is to bring your Jeep to a stop. Unfortunately, some people become so traumatized by death wobble that they become reluctant to drive their Jeep again and others go so far as to sell it.

What is Death Wobble?
Death wobble is a violent, uncontrollable shaking of your entire Jeep caused by extreme oscillation of your front axle. This is NOT to be confused with a vibration or even a "really bad shimmy" in the steering wheel. The later would be a common problem associated with tires that are out of balance. If you're not sure if you have death wobble, I can almost guarantee you don't. Experience it once and you'll know for sure.

Common Causes of Death Wobble?
FRONT TRACK BAR:
Death wobble is a condition that can occur when you have loose or worn out suspension and/or steering components. The most common cause of death wobble is a loose front track bar bolt, worn out track bar bushing, a failing track bar mount and sometimes even a track bar that is physically bending or flexing. If you've just come off the trail and now have death wobble, there is a good chance your front track bar bolt has worked itself loose and re-tightening these bolts to 125 ft. lbs. may be all you need to do to fix it.


http://youtu.be/mLfjnVMsVLQ

BALL JOINTS:
The second most common cause of death wobble are worn out ball joints. Unfortunately, the factory ball joints contain components made of plastic wear out quickly especially if you're running much larger tires on wheels with a lot less back spacing. Also, these components are susceptable to heat and can melt if you fail to remove them prior to having C-Gussets welded onto your front axles end forging.

OTHER CAUSES:
For the most part, the only things that I have found to allow death wobble to occur are problems associated with a front track bar and/or ball joints. Other loose, worn out or damaged suspension and steering components can allow it to occur as well but, they aren't as common. Now, there are a host of things that can help instigate or trigger death wobble and the most common of these are tires that are out of balance. The rythmic shimmying of unbalanced tires will put a strain on suspension and steering components and can easily work bolts loose. Left unchecked, this additional movement will eventually compound and be exaggerated until it results in death wobble. Other things I have seen that can instigate death wobble include a toe-in setting that was drastically off, a caster setting that was significantly less than the factory +4.2 and I have even seen where one front shock that wasn't valving properly trigger death wobble as well. But again, most of these things cause the wearing out of components and/or the loosening of bolts and once that occurs to something like your front track bar, death wobble can ensue.

Common Myths About Death Wobble
STEERING STABILIZER - The most common myth about death wobble is that it can be caused by a damaged, worn out or missing steering stabilzer or that it can be "fixed" by installing a new heavy duty unit. Assuming your suspension and steering components are in good shape, installed properly, dialed in and tightened to the correct torque setting, a steering stabilizer shouldn't even be needed to operate your Jeep safely. Yes, having one is nice but, it's far from something you "need". Will a steering stabilizer help prevent death wobble from occuring? Yes, it can "help" but, at best, all it'll do is hide or mask the real cause of your problem.

TOE-OUT - While a Jeep does have 4 wheel drive capabilities, it is for the most part considered, a rear wheel drive vehicle. Because of it, the front wheels are designed to have a toe that is set inward ever so slightly. As you move forward, your front tires will get pushed outward, will be more parallel and, in addition to providing improved tracking, it will help ensure better tire wear as well. While setting your toe outward can help prevent death wobble (it's actually something I would even recommend as a bandaid to get you home), it WILL NOT be a "fix" for whatever is causing your death wobble. Like a steering stabilizer, setting your toe out will only serve to mask the real problem at hand.

Steps You Can Take to Fix Death Wobble
Before I start, I need to state for the record that I am not an expert on suspension nor would I pretend to be. Any advice I can offer is solely based on my experience working on our JK's, wheeling them and driving them everywhere both on and off pavement. Unlike some, we do not trailer any of our Jeeps and since 2007, have racked up well over 110,000 miles on our White 4-door JK, over 50,000 miles on our 2009 Sunburst Orange 4-door JK before selling it, over 15,000 miles on our 2007 Silver 2-door JK and have even put on close to 20,000 miles on our new 2012 Dozer 4-door JK. To date, we've had the unpleasant pleasure of having death wobble on all but our 2012 JK. However, I am happy to say that we have been able to successfully fix it on all of them. Having said all that, the below information are steps that I've been able to take to find and fix every instance of death wobble that we've had. With any luck, they'll be able to help you too.

1. GET YOUR TIRE BALANCED:
Getting big off road tires balanced is hard to do and it's not uncommon to need 2-3 visits to get them on right. Even if you've had them balanced recently, I would still recommend that you do it again before proceeding. While unbalanced tires will not "cause" death wobble, they can instagate it and, if they are still off, it will make it harder to identify the actual source.

2. SET YOUR CASTER:
You ever get a shopping cart at the grocery store with a bum wheel? You know, the kind that wobbles all over the place even though you're going straight. This occurs because for whatever reason, the wheel in question has very little to no positive caster on it. Likewise, a Jeep with little to no possitive caster can instigate death wobble as well. Lifting a Jeep will effect your caster and it is important that you have it set as close to the factory +4.2į as possible. Having more is better but, that can cause driveline vibrations and that's not something you'd want to have.

3. REMOVE YOUR STEERING STABLIZER:
Because a steering stablizer will dampen movement in your front axle, leaving one in place will make it difficult to locate the actual source of your death wobble. Removing it will cause your death wobble to occur more consistantly and more predictably and that'll not only help you to find the source of your problem, it'll help you to know it's actually fixed.

4. CHECK YOUR FRONT TRACK BAR:
Wheeling is hard on your suspension and steering components and having a bolt come loose on your front track bar is very common. More times than not, re-tightening your track bar bolts to 125-130 ft. lbs. of torque is all that is needed to fix death wobble. If your bolts check out, carefully examine the bushings and mounts for signs of cracking, tearing or fatigue on both the axle and frame especially if you have a relocation bracket that is not reinforced installed. The added height of a relocation bracket can act as a lever and over time, can cause your weak factory mounts to fail through metallurgy. Some will suggest that you also check the mounts for any signs of wallowing of the bolt holes and if they are, they would recommend that you have a plate or washer welded on to tighten things up or, install a new larger diameter bolt to help make up the difference. However, torque is what is important and ultimately what holds everything together like a vice - NOT bolt size. You can read all about replacing factory bolts with grade 8 shouldered bolts here: Jeep JK Wrangler Grade 8 Replacement Bolts - Do I Really Need Them? (http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?21036-Jeep-JK-Wrangler-Grade-8-Replacement-Bolts-Do-I-Really-Need-Them)

Last but not least, check your track bar to see if there's any flexing in it. This is something I have seen with JKS track bars and a few other aftermarket units and you can see it happening just by having someone turn your steering wheel back and forth while you give it a look.

5. CHECK YOUR BALL JOINTS:
There are two different types of movements you will see in your ball joints, the first is called RADIAL (shifting side to side) and the other is AXIAL (up and down). The amount of radial movement you see should not exceed 0.060" (1.5mm) and axial movement should not exceed 0.050" (1.25mm). Because it doesn't take a whole lot to be off, the best way to measure ball joint play is with a dial indicator. Here are steps you can use to check them:


1. From the axle, use a good floor jack to lift one of your tire off the ground. If you don't have a good floor jack, set your axle on a jack stand to hold it up securely in place.
2. From the side, place a long pry bar under the tire and have someone lift it up and down while you watch the lower ball joint for axial (up and down) movement. Any movement more than 0.050" is too much and would indicate that your ball joint is bad. Of course, if you can see this movement with your eyes, it's definitely bad.
3. Next, grab the tire at the 12 and 6 o'clock position and try to rock it back and forth while you have someone watch the upper joint for any movement. Any radial (side-to-side) movement more than 0.060" is too much. Again, if you can see the movement with your eyes and without any dial indicator, it's probably bad as well.

If they check out, I would check your unit bearings as well.

6. RE-TIGHTEN YOUR BOLTS:
Death wobble is so violent that it can and often does work bolts loose with each episode you experience. In other words, if you have an episode occur while going through this checklist, take some time to re-torque everything again. Yes, it's a pain, but in the long run, it'll help you to find and fix the actual cause of your death wobble a lot faster.

Useful Links & Diagrams
Torque specs on every bolt your Jeep JK Wrangler has can be found on this link:

Jeep JK Wrangler Torque Spec Sheet (http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-write-ups/jeep-jk-wrangler-torque-settings)

The diagram below will help you to identify all of your front end suspension and steering components.

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=49336

Again, the information and steps outlined above are just what I've used in the past to find and fix every instance of death wobble that we've had on our JK's. With any luck, they'll be able to help you out as well. If you have any questions, please feel free to post them up here.

Centaurus
05-30-2013, 03:18 PM
Just FYI for anyone experiencing the issue but their front end components appear to be fine (also posted as a comment to the Article):

I had the issue of the shimmy slowly/progressively getting worse until it was bad enough to start a death wobble on my [stock] 2007 Wrangler Unlimited a few years after I bought it. My wobble would only occur if I was going around 55 mph and there was the right kind of bump or dip in the road to start the oscillation. The front end components were fine and it turned out to be a balancing issue.

Turned out that the service stations I was taking it to for convenience (Goodyear and Sears) were not good enough to balance the Jeep correctly. I ended up going to a 4x4 specialist and they did a Road Force Balance which corrected the issue. When it's this kind of issue, besides taking it to a good mechanic, rotating the tires with EVERY oil change as well as replacing the tires when due will help keep the issue away.

wayoflife
05-30-2013, 03:26 PM
Just FYI for anyone experiencing the issue but their front end components appear to be fine (also posted as a comment to the Article):

I had the issue of the shimmy slowly/progressively getting worse until it was bad enough to start a death wobble on my 2007 Wrangler Unlimited a few years after I bought it. My wobble would only occur if I was going around 55 mph and there was the right kind of bump or dip in the road to start the oscillation. The front end components were fine and it turned out to be a balancing issue.

Turned out that the service stations I was taking it to for convenience (Goodyear and Sears) were not good enough to balance the Jeep correctly. I ended up going to a 4x4 specialist and they did a Road Force Balance which corrected the issue. When it's this kind of issue, besides taking it to a good mechanic, rotating the tires with EVERY oil change as well as replacing the tires when due will help keep the issue away.

As you will note, Step #1 in my list of things to do to help address death wobble is to GET YOUR TIRES BALANCED. Road force balancing is the best way to do this. Having said that, tires not being balanced alone shouldn't be enough to allow death wobble to occur. I would still make sure you make sure your front track bar bolts are tightened to the proper torque specs, verify that the joints are in good shape and make sure the mounts are not failing and, last but not least, have your ball joints checked with a dial indicator. There should be no "appear to be fine" about this - it should be absolute.

Centaurus
05-30-2013, 03:51 PM
^ Thanks, I had read through all your steps - I'll recheck everything under the front again. I had never heard of the road force balancing before I went to the 4x4 specialist. Yes, it was weird, the shop checked everything in the front before doing the rfb and said all the steering and suspension looked good and everything has been fine since the rfb. They did point out that they had to take some weights off of the tires when re-balancing itÖ

sean.m.adams33
05-30-2013, 03:57 PM
Great write up. I have not experienced death wobble yet and hope I never do. But I feel more confident now knowing your tips.

jhires
05-30-2013, 04:39 PM
I'd like to add how important it is to get your tires balanced first.

When my wife and I were still dating, her TJ began to experience the death wobble.
When she took it into Les Schwab, the immediately told her it was the track bar and the whole front suspension needed needed somewhere north of $2k of work without inspecting it. She told me about this, I told her to tell the tech to check the tire balance first. They wouldn't do it. So told her to leave.

We took it to Discount, who balanced the tires for for free. Front left tire was way out of balance. Once balanced, the wobble went away.

Tire balance not always the case, but is the best place to start. Most of the time, it is a free check, so nothing is lost if that is not the cause.

TonkaJK1031
06-29-2013, 07:36 PM
This is a really good thread I've heard of death wobble but never really knew what is was

mcgee149
07-02-2013, 04:47 PM
mine ended up being two shot drag link tre

keno4x4
08-04-2013, 08:36 PM
I just checked the front ball joints on my 2008 JK. Had enough movement to hear the parts "clank" :doh: when the pry bar lifted and dropped the tire. Will be ordering a set of Synergy ball joints on Monday!!!

MacCleev
08-05-2013, 08:06 PM
thanks! had death wobble start a lot lately and couldn't understand why it was coming up so suddenly after running the same set up for a while. it was exactly what that video showed!

but also from experience, i had a wobble issue when i put on 35" goodyears with 17" pro comp wheels. i had the tries balanced and all of the suspension components looked at and it came down to the so claimed lug-centric wheels actually not being so, and i needed a custom set of hub rings made in order to stop the wobble. fixed it completely. you might want to take a look at this if all else fails!

Devallee
08-17-2013, 07:28 PM
Could a drag link be the problem? I noticed I'm hearing the same "clank" when the jeep is stationary and I move the wheel back and forth as I am when the actual death wobble is happening. Narrowed it down to the drag link. It also has about 2 inches of play when I move it up and down. Is that normal? Any input is helpful. I'm on my last straw I'm just gonna take it to the shop in a few weeks when I'm back from school if the drag link isn't the problem

Markymark420
08-17-2013, 08:50 PM
Yes, the draglink could very well cause deathwobble. Any component in the front end that exhibits any type of "undesigned" movement could be contribute to death wobble.

bl17z90
08-17-2013, 08:52 PM
The draglink should move in a twisting motion just like the tie rod since thy both have ball joints at the end of them.

Before you go messing with all of your steering components check and see if your track bar mountig holes are egged out at all.

keno4x4
08-17-2013, 10:35 PM
Well I replaced the old ball joints and as of today, no more Death Wobble.
44731

I have driven over roads that would start the initial movement and all is smooth. I also checked with the pry bar under the tire and NO movement! 👍

Hope that was it! 😁

bl17z90
08-18-2013, 12:57 AM
Hope it works out for you. And if not check your track bar mount holes front and rear frame and axle to make sure they arn't egged out a d make sure neither bar is loose.

pastorwug
08-18-2013, 01:12 AM
This is just the kind of great info I come here for, thanks! :clap2:

Devallee
08-18-2013, 03:50 AM
The draglink should move in a twisting motion just like the tie rod since thy both have ball joints at the end of them.

Before you go messing with all of your steering components check and see if your track bar mountig holes are egged out at all.

Well now I feel stupid..I didn't know there were ball joints on each end. That has to be the problem because I can't find any other problem. The track bar is perfect and tight and no problem with the mounting holes. This is the only thing I can narrow it down to. That clank sound is coming from the lower end so I'm assuming the ball joint is blown. Gonna see what it costs to get some new ones and hopefully that'll do the job. Thanks for the help guys! :thumb:

Devallee
08-18-2013, 03:54 AM
Well before I go too fast...is it even possible to just replace the drag link ball joints? Or do I need to buy a whole new drank link all together..if so I'm assuming I might as well get the EVO drank link flip kit? Is that a complete kit or is there anything else I would need to get my baby back on the road again? Sorry if these sound like newb questions, I'm learning something new everyday!

Edit: drag*

bl17z90
08-18-2013, 04:37 AM
Actually ball joints is the wrong term i think. But your drag link or tie rod could be shot but that is not one of the more common causes of death wobble.

DVS1
09-08-2013, 06:47 PM
I have had my jeep to the shop many times , they cant find anything wrong .. I have had it to a club who members know of this problem , they too can find anything loose ..
They did make some suggestions and they suggest to change the track bar & trailing arms ... I have a Rough country 3.5 lift 2.0 shocks ..

I replace trailing arms with so called better ones, (Skyjacker's) and track bars both front and rear (Skyjacker's) This did affect my DW now I get a shimmy at about 60 MPH to 63 mph, after that it goes away . . but at 75 plus if I hit a pot hole it goes to shaking (DW) . .

I have spent a lot of money trying to fix it .. I bought the jeep 2010 JK Rubi new and put the lift on at 5,000 mile (23,00 now) .. I have even sent it to dealer.. who tells me it all good and they cant find a problem with suspension . . They are a Mod friendly Jeep Dealer . .
tires have been balance three times .. I have rip off weights once and had them do it again , still have DW ??

We cant figure it out .... any suggestion ....


I'm thinking of ripping it all out and selling lift !!!!!!

Sharkey
09-08-2013, 07:00 PM
I'd put it back to stock and if it has no problems, I'd spend the money to get a better and more complete lift.

bl17z90
09-09-2013, 12:08 AM
I dont think the lift kit would cause dewth wobble. The most common problem is the track bar mouting holes are egged out (front and rear this can happen) and it's a very easy thing to not notice when trying to disgnose dewth wobble.

Sharkey
09-09-2013, 12:52 AM
Correct, the kit itself shouldn't but if its not installed well or has crappy joints and bushings, I'd go back to stock. Eliminate the possibilities, then get a lift by a manufacturer who primarily works with Jeeps.

DVS1
09-09-2013, 03:53 AM
Hey Thanks guy for the speedy replies . . . I've been looking at the long arm kit . . . my gut tells me I should have gotten it in the first place , now that I have spent all this money on BS ... yes I should have did that / a better kit . some of my friends have lifted jeeps, they too went the cheaper way . . they deny any problems but I bet you money they have them too, and it appears I'm not alone whit this problem ...

well I might do just that remove the lift sell it and buy a complete long arm kit ..


Again Thank you ... I love this site . . Keep up the good work people .. you have a great tool here .. again thank you..


:rock: :thumb: :standing wave:

bl17z90
09-10-2013, 01:40 AM
Best of luck to you sir just do some research on long arm kits before you buy one. Ask on here if you want everyone has information and all information is usefull.

DVS1
09-10-2013, 09:57 PM
Best of luck to you sir just do some research on long arm kits before you buy one. Ask on here if you want everyone has information and all information is usefull.

Well then I guess the next question would be ... would it help with my problem .. if not then best to go Stock !!

I did the short arm because I thought it would be Ok , but I'm hating myself for not going long arm .. but then again .. maybe that to is not a good Idea for a daily drive .. yes I spend a lot of time in the swamp or should say off road and bad trails .. :thinking: ..

mgmavant
10-03-2013, 08:58 PM
I was starting to get death wobble quite a bit - usually started around 60 mph, but it didn't happen all the time. When it started to happen more frequently, I decided to replace my ball joints (I knew they were bad because of the movement). After replacing the ball joints, I didn't have death wobble. I have an 08 JKU-R with about 95k miles on it. I suspect the ball joints have been bad for some time.

GIJK
10-14-2013, 12:11 AM
Are all of you guys replacing the ball joints yourself or having someone do it? I watched a YouTube video and it looks like a big job. I also have death wobble and haven't been able to correct it. It's been sitting in the driveway for two weeks now. I have a rock krawler steering system and a fox ATS on the way but this is really only so I can drive it to a 4x4 shop for tire balancing. It's been very frustrating

wayoflife
10-14-2013, 01:18 AM
Are all of you guys replacing the ball joints yourself or having someone do it? I watched a YouTube video and it looks like a big job. I also have death wobble and haven't been able to correct it. It's been sitting in the driveway for two weeks now. I have a rock krawler steering system and a fox ATS on the way but this is really only so I can drive it to a 4x4 shop for tire balancing. It's been very frustrating

If you're worried about doing the job yourself, just take your Jeep to a shop and have them do it.

mgmavant
10-14-2013, 02:03 AM
It was a big job for sure. It took me about 9 hours to do it myself. The first side was a real pain to figure everything out, but once I did it the other side wasn't bad at all. I'm glad I did because I now know how it's all put together - not to mention the $$$ saved by doing it myself. I ended up breaking a speed sensor, and that was a real pain to drill it out and clean it up and running to the dealer for a new sensor. If you do decide to do it, I would recommend disconnecting the speed sensor as opposed to pulling the sensor out.

I had death wobble as well and it got to the point where I couldn't go over 55mph. Replacing the ball joints fixed it. I have an 08 with about 95k mile an I've been running 35" for the past 40k miles.

Good luck with it whatever you decide to do.

Sent from my MB886 using WAYALIFE mobile app

hdawgn40
11-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Death wobble can be made up of many things.....first not having your axel centered under your jeep can cause death wobble, bad ball joints can cause death wobble negative caster in upper and lower control arms can cause it, bad tires; some people think they can save a quick buck by buying used tires, but if they're worn unevenly they can contribute to death wobble. Unfortunately when your doing it yourself it's trial and error. With those kinda miles it could be anything. Best solution is to fix one at a time out correct all of those and your problem should go away.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using WAYALIFE mobile app

Pilgrim55
11-05-2013, 03:53 AM
When I took my 2012 jeep in for alinement they told me that they want to replace one ball joint to correct camber and caster. I have a 3 1/2 inch lift with 35 BF Goodrich tires. I did not want to replace just one so I am waiting during my wait I hit a bump and my jeep started to death wobble only done this once. I want and check all my steer joint only found some play in the drag link. When I jack up the jeep and pry up the tires I notice that the ball joints have a little movement in them the axle shaft move up and down when I do this. I guess my question is and my original plan before all the death wobble started was to replace all my ball joint and replace my lower ball joint with offset ball joints. Will this help with the death wobble? I figure it won't hurt. My second question is has anyone know about moog ball joint are they any good and should I put offset ball joint on it. What other brand of ball joint do you recommend? thanks for any help that you could send my way.

wayoflife
11-05-2013, 02:33 PM
Death wobble can be made up of many things.....first not having your axel centered under your jeep can cause death wobble...

Sorry but, this simply isn't true. Fact of the matter is, your axle will almost always be off center depending on how much weight you have on board or lack there of. It's just the way a solid axle works and it being off WILL NOT cause death wobble.


...negative caster in upper and lower control arms can cause it

Negative caster can make it a lot easier to occur but ultimately, you would need to have a loose or worn out suspension or steering components to make it happen. Also, caster can be set by either your upper or lower control arms but they themselves will not have any. Hope you understand that I just wanted to make this clear for anyone else reading this thread. :yup:


When I took my 2012 jeep in for alinement they told me that they want to replace one ball joint to correct camber and caster. I have a 3 1/2 inch lift with 35 BF Goodrich tires. I did not want to replace just one so I am waiting during my wait I hit a bump and my jeep started to death wobble only done this once. I want and check all my steer joint only found some play in the drag link. When I jack up the jeep and pry up the tires I notice that the ball joints have a little movement in them the axle shaft move up and down when I do this. I guess my question is and my original plan before all the death wobble started was to replace all my ball joint and replace my lower ball joint with offset ball joints. Will this help with the death wobble? I figure it won't hurt. My second question is has anyone know about moog ball joint are they any good and should I put offset ball joint on it. What other brand of ball joint do you recommend? thanks for any help that you could send my way.

Bad ball joints will cause death wobble and are a common culprit. Moog joints are pretty affordable and will get the job done but, I might recommend a set of Dynatrac ProSteer's if you can afford it. They are pricy but will be the last set you will ever need. Crown HD joints (same as Synerygy and Alloy USA) are a decent option as well. I would also double check your unit bearings as them being bad will create a similar condition and can cause death wobble as well.

hdawgn40
11-07-2013, 11:18 PM
Well what would be the cause of death wobble on a brand new jeep with a rough country 3.25 lift ? Did some research even spoke with Dennis woods of teraflex bought a adjustable track bar and my problem was solved I don't know call it magic......lol

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wayoflife
11-07-2013, 11:27 PM
Well what would be the cause of death wobble on a brand new jeep with a rough country 3.25 lift ? Did some research even spoke with Dennis woods of teraflex bought a adjustable track bar and my problem was solved I don't know call it magic......lol

Easy, your front track bar most likely had a mounting bolt that wasn't tightened to the proper torque spec - a common problem after installing a new lift. This would allow for enough movement to cause death wobble. It's sad to hear that Dennis chose to sell you something you didn't need instead of just offering you some good advise.

hdawgn40
11-07-2013, 11:37 PM
Lol ....They were tighten to the proper specs and so was the new one I put in.........I guess your right you are the professional .....I know m my work ethics and I always double check my work and never deviate from the instructions, but that's why I'm on here now so that you can show me the way (no joke) thanks Eddie just know imma be bugging the heck out of you about all my jk issues.....lol

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bl17z90
11-07-2013, 11:43 PM
Sometimes even the torque specs in the instructio s arn't enough....happened to me :naw:


Sent from my phone?

wayoflife
11-07-2013, 11:47 PM
Lol ....They were tighten to the proper specs and so was the new one I put in.........I guess your right you are the professional .....I know m my work ethics and I always double check my work and never deviate from the instructions, but that's why I'm on here now so that you can show me the way (no joke) thanks Eddie just know imma be bugging the heck out of you about all my jk issues.....lol

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LOL at professional!! All I do is run a website and share what I know. Being that I wasn't the one who worked on your Jeep or the one who checked your work, I can't say one way or another what was done or if things were done right. Were you still using the factory track bar or were you using one made by Rough Country? If the later, could it be possible that the Rough Country track bar could of had issues? Let me ask you this, if it's so critical to have your axle centered under your Jeep to prevent death wobble, why is it that TeraFlex would sell a 2.5" lift kit that yields well over 3" and without an adjustable track bar? Fact of the matter is, a Jeep with a solid front axle will ALWAYS have an axle that is off center as soon as you load it up with a ton of gear and passengers or remove them. It's just the nature of the beast and how a track bar works. Please understand that I'm not saying you did anything wrong here - I'm just annoyed that a company like TeraFlex would SELL you something instead of helping you resolve a problem with accurate information. Of course, if your track bar was bad, had bad busing or was bending (something I have seen on some new track bars), maybe a new track bar was what you needed.

hdawgn40
11-08-2013, 12:01 AM
Well you were one for one with my evo skid and muffler issue so I do hold your advice in the highest regard......everyday I learn something new about these jk's and pass my knowledge on to others and I want my information to be correct I'm in no way, shape our form saying that your info is not accurate I was convinced that that was the issue until you left that message it made me go out and look at my suspension on my new jeep lol

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hdawgn40
11-08-2013, 12:04 AM
Btw wasn't being sarcastic about you being a professional.

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wayoflife
11-08-2013, 12:04 AM
Well you were one for one with my evo skid and muffler issue so I do hold your advice in the highest regard......everyday I learn something new about these jk's and pass my knowledge on to others and I want my information to be correct I'm in no way, shape our form saying that your info is not accurate I was convinced that that was the issue until you left that message it made me go out and look at my suspension on my new jeep lol

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LOL!! Well, I'm glad you didn't take what I was saying the wrong way as that it wasn't my intent. It's tough for me especially being at a place like SEMA like I am now where I get to talk to all these manufacturers and know the kind of BS they pull. A times, it can make it real hard for me to do it with smile.

Tackerdown
11-08-2013, 12:20 AM
I just wanted to throw this out there. My son bought a 4" RC lift and already had to replace his track bar and shocks after less than 2 years and maybe 5 times wheeling and I'm talking easy trails. Maybe harsh parking lots also.

Tom

devwil68
11-23-2013, 06:07 AM
I am getting some wobble now after about 14k miles and a week long trip to CO and Moab. I have torqued everything to 125 and no correction and replaced my bolts with 9/16 during the lift install. I have a synergy high steer kit going in this weekend to hopefully help.

Any additional advice? Going to see if I can get a good alignment soon if nothing else helps me.

RobSims
11-30-2013, 07:42 PM
First off, thanks for sharing this insightful knowledge about resolving and providing an understanding of the death wobble issue. Without this direction I would have spent thousands at a shop to get it fixed.

I have a 2006 Jeep Wrangler TJ. It has 33" tires, 4" suspension lift and a 1.25" body lift. I use it for light trails occasionally getting a little wild. I hit the mud pit once, first and last time as clean up was a bear and you can't see whats under the mud.

So, at some point at 40-50 the death wobble started. I believe it was after mudding and hitting a hole that jacked my alignment up, and so I had the dealer re-align. Still the death wobble. Now, when I say death wobble it is the wobble that violently shakes from the front of the vehicle to the back so much so that my rear shock mount ripped off the rear axle, there was no powering through it that time. I have powered through 40-50 to get me home but it's sketchy to say the least.

So, this thread listed check the track bar and look for anything shiny on the front suspension. Sure enough, the lift kit has this drop mount of the driver side frame for the track bar to connect to, it looked solid, but there was shiny metal on the outside where the sway bar is.
I had my son turn the steering wheel left and right, and sure enough the 3 bolts while super tight, there was play about 1/4" in the track bar. Easy fix was to weld it to the frame. By the way, first pass was to weld the rear bracket to the frame as well which reduced the wobble from 100% to 85%, no longer tearing off shock mounts. After welding the front mount onto the frame the death wobble reduced to 15% of a death wobble, I will call it a slight wobble coming from the front right manifesting the feel in the steering wheel. The next approach was to change to a slightly toe out alignment,
which made the 15% or even 10% wobble go to 0% wobble at 40mph to 50mph. Awesome feeling. I went from wanting to part ways with the jeep to being stoked about it again. Without this article giving some direction this fix was not possible so thank you!

Another note, I tried messing with the caster angle making it more positive ( by measurement from a chart ) but that seemed to have no effect on the wobble.

So, the originator is spot on. The front suspension must be tight. Look for a shiny tell and fix it. While the toe out is supposed to be a work around to hide something else that is loose, I will take it as now the Jeep is a perfect ride at any speed.



Robert Sims

wayoflife
11-30-2013, 07:52 PM
To be clear, setting your toe-out is something that I recommend as a bandaid to get you home but is far from a fix. A Jeep is primarily a rear wheel drive vehicle and because of it, needs to have it's toe-IN as that will provide optimal tire wear. Toe out will help stabilize you for sure but, only at the cost of poor tire wear. If you are still having a wobble, I would double check your ball joints and bearings as they could easily go bad from each episode of DW that you had. Hope that helps.

Devallee
12-20-2013, 11:02 PM
I didn't know where else to find the info I need and I didn't wanna start a new thread for this but... I've been having trouble with death wobble and when I put the evo drag link flip kit on it took care of about 90% of the problem, but I still get a death wobble every once in a long while but it's much more of just a consistent shimmy now with the occasional death wobble. I just found out my steering stabilizer is completely shot. I was planning on ordering the evo lower control arms to correct my caster as my next step to curing my DW completely, but could the SS be the problem? I know a worn SS won't CAUSE DW but if it's just occasional DW, could it be the culprit? Or should I get the lower control arms along with a new SS anyways? I'm thinking a new SS first since that's much cheaper, and seeing how it drives, and putting off the control arms til I get the evo DD long arm. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

wayoflife
12-20-2013, 11:22 PM
I didn't know where else to find the info I need and I didn't wanna start a new thread for this but... I've been having trouble with death wobble and when I put the evo drag link flip kit on it took care of about 90% of the problem, but I still get a death wobble every once in a long while but it's much more of just a consistent shimmy now with the occasional death wobble. I just found out my steering stabilizer is completely shot. I was planning on ordering the evo lower control arms to correct my caster as my next step to curing my DW completely, but could the SS be the problem? I know a worn SS won't CAUSE DW but if it's just occasional DW, could it be the culprit? Or should I get the lower control arms along with a new SS anyways? I'm thinking a new SS first since that's much cheaper, and seeing how it drives, and putting off the control arms til I get the evo DD long arm. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

Take off your SS and I can guarantee you that you will have the same sensation only, you'll most likely get DW more frequently.

Since you say that you have a consistent shimmy, I would start by having your tires balanced. A lot of what you are feeling is most likely coming from them and that can be enough to instigate DW. I would then have your suspension and steering bolts checked again for proper torque. Each episode of DW will be enough to loosen everything up. I would then double check that your track bar bushings are in good shape and that it's mounts do not show any signs of cracking or tearing. You said that installing the drag link flip helped? Well, a lot of that could be because your factory mount on the axle was tearing and now the new relocation bracket has stiffened things up. However, if the factory mount underneath is failing, it will let you know. If that checks out, be sure to check the frame side mount as it could not be failing due to the new stronger axle side mount. If all that checks out, have your ball joints and unit bearing checked as they are a BIG source of DW.

Hope that helps.

Devallee
12-21-2013, 02:11 AM
Take off your SS and I can guarantee you that you will have the same sensation only, you'll most likely get DW more frequently. Since you say that you have a consistent shimmy, I would start by having your tires balanced. A lot of what you are feeling is most likely coming from them and that can be enough to instigate DW. I would then have your suspension and steering bolts checked again for proper torque. Each episode of DW will be enough to loosen everything up. I would then double check that your track bar bushings are in good shape and that it's mounts do not show any signs of cracking or tearing. You said that installing the drag link flip helped? Well, a lot of that could be because your factory mount on the axle was tearing and now the new relocation bracket has stiffened things up. However, if the factory mount underneath is failing, it will let you know. If that checks out, be sure to check the frame side mount as it could not be failing due to the new stronger axle side mount. If all that checks out, have your ball joints and unit bearing checked as they are a BIG source of DW. Hope that helps.

I just had my tires balanced not too long ago and I remember still having the shimmy right after balancing although it did help a great deal. The track bar bushings are good I just checked those maybe a few hundred miles ago when I put the drag link flip on and the mounts seem like they're in fair shape. The bushings on my old track bar were shot which is what I think was causing most of the DW. However I have not checked for the proper torque on suspension and steering bolts recently so I will get on that ASAP as well as having the ball joints and unit bearings checked. Thanks for the help!

wayoflife
12-21-2013, 02:16 AM
I just had my tires balanced not too long ago and I remember still having the shimmy right after balancing although it did help a great deal. The track bar bushings are good I just checked those maybe a few hundred miles ago when I put the drag link flip on and the mounts seem like they're in fair shape. The bushings on my old track bar were shot which is what I think was causing most of the DW. However I have not checked for the proper torque on suspension and steering bolts recently so I will get on that ASAP as well as having the ball joints and unit bearings checked. Thanks for the help!

You should know that it's difficult to balance large off road tires and it's not uncommon to need multiple balancings to get it right. Some tires are a lot worse than others such as Goodyear MTR's. That is really where you should start but, I would definitely have the ball joints and unit bearing properly checked which means, using a dial indicator.

sirion
02-25-2014, 10:38 PM
I had been fighting DW for a few months recently and finally traced it to a bad drag link TRE after finding Planman's posts on JKF. Ended up replacing the entire thing with Napa / Moog hardware until I can justify installing a heavy duty high steer kit and tie rod all at once. At least I have zerks on those joints now.

Here's a video I made of the bad drag link end:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVADsxPHKxc

OverlanderJK
02-26-2014, 12:17 AM
I had been fighting DW for a few months recently and finally traced it to a bad drag link TRE after finding Planman's posts on JKF. Ended up replacing the entire thing with Napa / Moog hardware until I can justify installing a heavy duty high steer kit and tie rod all at once. At least I have zerks on those joints now.

Here's a video I made of the bad drag link end:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVADsxPHKxc

That guys a dumbass.

wayoflife
02-26-2014, 12:57 AM
That guys a dumbass.

But, he's a financial advisor that trailers his Jeep and only wheels 2 times a year in Moab. I mean, he's gotta be a Jeep guru :cheesy:

Wizard
02-26-2014, 08:58 AM
All good advice.

After hearing about the dreaded death wobble, but never previously experiencing it, it was a hell of shock when it happened. I limped home, making sure to stay well below the speed I thought brought the problem on, although it did happen 3-4 more times in that distance.

Sure enough when I got underneath and did a bit of an inspection, there was a loose track bar bolt just as described. I blame myself for maybe not tightening this bolt up enough when I fitted a new adjustable track bar a few month previously.

This track bar bolt is now tightened up to spec (plus a bit), and a full check of all other bolts under the vehicle, and today I had all tyres/rims balanced, and a full wheel alignment also, just to be sure all was in order.

sirion
02-26-2014, 04:16 PM
But, he's a financial advisor that trailers his Jeep and only wheels 2 times a year in Moab. I mean, he's gotta be a Jeep guru :cheesy:

Well, whatever his story is, I'm relatively new to doing my own front end work and his vids helped me immensely.

sirion
02-26-2014, 04:23 PM
That said, I've been fighting track bar torque issues since the first time I ever wheeled in my 2011 JK. By the time I solved it the drag link TREs were probably ruined and I didnt understand what to look for.

wayoflife
02-26-2014, 04:24 PM
Well, whatever his story is, I'm relatively new to doing my own front end work and his vids helped me immensely.

Glad to hear it but, the question you should be asking yourself is whether or not the information he provides is actually any good? But hey, what do I know.

wayoflife
02-26-2014, 04:26 PM
That said, I've been fighting track bar torque issues since the first time I ever wheeled in my 2011 JK. By the time I solved it the drag link TREs were probably ruined and I didnt understand what to look for.

How do you know your draglink TRE's were ruined and how did that cause track bar torque issues?

sirion
02-26-2014, 05:10 PM
Sorry, let me back up. This all started when I lifted my JK. The factory 14mm bolt on the lower track bar absolutely refused to stay torqued. Before I noticed it, it had very slightly wallowed out the bracket and would rattle on turns and on the highway coming home from wheeling. I'd torque it to spec at home and after another weekend out wheeling I'd be back at the same result. Over a year it developed into a shimmy every time it loosened, but not yet DW.

Last summer I hit the highway with my wheels packed with clay/mud and a (probably, as usual) loose track bar and got hit with a BAD shake going 60 MPH. I know this was caused due to unbalanced muddy wheels, but after pulling over, thoroughly cleaning out the wheels it never went away. Soon after that I had full on DW every time I got over 40.

I re-balanced the tires, checked the torque on ALL the suspension bolts, replaced the track bar, replaced the factory hardware with 9/16" grade 8 (which incidentally solved the track bar loosening up). But the DW persisted.

It wasn't until I learned how to test the ball joint on the TRE ends (yes, from planman) that I determined it was the OEM drag link. If you watch that vid I posted (which is ME, not planman) you can see the passenger side drag link end kicking a good 1/4" every time my lovely assistant turned the wheels. The pitman TRE was in the same condition. As soon as I replaced the drag link the DW was resolved. I am on 35s now and all is well.



I've always done my own general maintenance, but never front end work. I'm learning as I go and I meant no offense when I cited another source. TBH I registered here in 2011 and never really visited much. I stuck to old habits and old resources and didn't really rediscover you until a few days ago. Again, sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers.

Jim

OverlanderJK
02-26-2014, 05:23 PM
I didn't read that whole thing but if you let your issue fester for a year of course you won't get it to torque properly. The bolt is supposed to have a little room in the hole.

Army_Vet
02-26-2014, 05:31 PM
If you let your track bar bolt loose that long you prob need new mounts also due to the hole getting egg shaped. Can't hurt to check it

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sirion
02-26-2014, 05:37 PM
I didn't read that whole thing but if you let your issue fester for a year of course you won't get it to torque properly. The bolt is supposed to have a little room in the hole.

In hindsight I did let it fester. I just re-torqued and didn't address the root cause and the symptoms got worse each subsequent time it occurred. I didn't check until after each wheeling trip so it's even possible that bolt backed off even in city driving. I can't say. I now check all the suspension components at each oil change, plus after wheeling. Hopefully that's enough.

cozdude
02-26-2014, 05:39 PM
If you let your track bar bolt loose that long you prob need new mounts also due to the hole getting egg shaped. Can't hurt to check it

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that happened to mine. my tack bar hole got egg shaped. had it fixed by welding on a washer on either side to clean it up

wayoflife
02-26-2014, 05:40 PM
Sorry, let me back up. This all started when I lifted my JK. The factory 14mm bolt on the lower track bar absolutely refused to stay torqued. Before I noticed it, it had very slightly wallowed out the bracket and would rattle on turns and on the highway coming home from wheeling. I'd torque it to spec at home and after another weekend out wheeling I'd be back at the same result. Over a year it developed into a shimmy every time it loosened, but not yet DW.

Okay, let's take a step back and look at what the real problem might have been. Looking at your profile, I see that the lift you installed was the RC Series II 3.5" kit. Is it safe to assume you installed the front track bar relocation bracket that came with the kit too? I looked at your video but you were just focused on your draglink TRE.


Last summer I hit the highway with my wheels packed with clay/mud and a (probably, as usual) loose track bar and got hit with a BAD shake going 60 MPH. I know this was caused due to unbalanced muddy wheels, but after pulling over, thoroughly cleaning out the wheels it never went away. Soon after that I had full on DW every time I got over 40.

Wheels that unbalanced can cause bolts to loosen up. Loose bolts can cause DW. Let it happen long enough and mounting holes will wollow out.


I re-balanced the tires, checked the torque on ALL the suspension bolts, replaced the track bar, replaced the factory hardware with 9/16" grade 8 (which incidentally solved the track bar loosening up). But the DW persisted.

Just to prove a point here, the 9/16" grade 8 bolt that the financial advisor recommends made NO DIFFERENCE.


It wasn't until I learned how to test the ball joint on the TRE ends (yes, from planman) that I determined it was the OEM drag link. If you watch that vid I posted (which is ME, not planman) you can see the passenger side drag link end kicking a good 1/4" every time my lovely assistant turned the wheels. The pitman TRE was in the same condition. As soon as I replaced the drag link the DW was resolved. I am on 35s now and all is well.

As I have already stated, loose or worn out suspension/steering components can instigate DW. Vertical movement in your TRE's is a clear sign of a worn out joint. The question you should be asking is, why did it wear out so quickly?

sirion
02-26-2014, 05:44 PM
If you let your track bar bolt loose that long you prob need new mounts also due to the hole getting egg shaped. Can't hurt to check it

Sent from my XT907 using WAYALIFE mobile app

It's been addressed. I welded my Rancho stabilizer's mounting plate to the bracket, which overlays the front hole, and I have a thick grade 8 washer welded to the back side where the flag nut used to be. I'm watching it closely. Eventually I'll be replacing it all with a new weld-on track bar bracket when I finally upgrade the lift. With my limited budget (3 kids) it's a slow process.

sirion
02-26-2014, 05:51 PM
Okay, let's take a step back and look at what the real problem might have been. Looking at your profile, I see that the lift you installed was the RC Series II 3.5" kit. Is it safe to assume you installed the front track bar relocation bracket that came with the kit too? I looked at your video but you were just focused on your draglink TRE.

Wheels that unbalanced can cause bolts to loosen up. Loose bolts can cause DW. Let it happen long enough and mounting holes will wollow out.

Just to prove a point here, the 9/16" grade 8 bolt that the financial advisor recommends made NO DIFFERENCE.

As I have already stated, loose or worn out suspension/steering components can instigate DW. Vertical movement in your TRE's is a clear sign of a worn out joint. The question you should be asking is, why did it wear out so quickly?

I didn't use the relo bracket or drop pitman arm. Opted instead for an adjustable track bar.

The suggestion to replace the bolts came from other sources including JKF. I must have missed where he suggested it. All Im saying is I learned how to check for slop in the ball joints from his vid. I'm a visual guy. I never intended to cause a stir here :doh:

wayoflife
02-26-2014, 07:00 PM
I didn't use the relo bracket or drop pitman arm. Opted instead for an adjustable track bar.

3.5" is enough lift that you really would benefit from some kind of steering correction. The steep angle that your drag link has been sitting at is what most likely caused it to fail prematurely. Likewise, it could have contributed to your track bar bolt coming loose as well.


The suggestion to replace the bolts came from other sources including JKF. I must have missed where he suggested it. All Im saying is I learned how to check for slop in the ball joints from his vid. I'm a visual guy.

Oh, I realize that. There's been a lot of 'hype' about replacing bolts and he's just one of many that have been promoting it. As far as ball joints go, the only thing you need to know is that rotational movement is normal. Up and down or side to side shifting is not.


I never intended to cause a stir here :doh:

LOL!! No stir was caused - planman is just kind of a butt of a joke is all.

sirion
02-26-2014, 07:19 PM
It's all good.

High steer kit is definitely next on the list.

wayoflife
02-26-2014, 07:36 PM
It's all good.

High steer kit is definitely next on the list.

No need to waste your money on overpriced orange knuckles and steering arms. I can guarantee you that you will still hit your tie-rod. You'd be better off buying an HD tie-rod like what Currie makes and get a drag link flip/front track bar relocation kit. That'll get your steering geometry corrected and get you a tie rod that can take a beating.

olram30
02-26-2014, 07:38 PM
i should have bought stock on 9/16 grade 8 bolts. i'd be rich.

sirion
02-26-2014, 09:00 PM
No need to waste your money on overpriced orange knuckles and steering arms. I can guarantee you that you will still hit your tie-rod. You'd be better off buying an HD tie-rod like what Currie makes and get a drag link flip/front track bar relocation kit. That'll get your steering geometry corrected and get you a tie rod that can take a beating.

Thanks, I used the wrong term :) I've been looking at the Currie setup with the Synergy bracket, though the Ruff Stuff DIY kit is interesting.

toxicwaste29
03-10-2014, 09:51 PM
I have a 2012 jk that was totaled with 4k miles (http://www.daveysjeeps.com/repairables/R105420.html). I had the axle, frame, and body straightened since they were all bent. I installed a RK 2.5" lift and about 10k miles later I was going down the highway and hit a bump going about 60 and my first experience with death wobble occurred. This was about two months ago. I replaced the drag link with an RK and MOOG ends, the driver side hub assembly since it seemed to have play (the new one also seems to be making a slight noise now). I put a different SS on since my stock was blow and I was ordering stuff anyways. The front end was aligned and now roughly 2k miles later (today) I received death wobble again. The front end was checked 2k ago when everything originally happened and the ball joint appeared okay. The jeep currently only has 28k miles. Can someone please help me? I am a college kid and don't have the money for all these parts and it seems like every 2-5k miles something else needs replaced. I included the link to the original pictures if that will help any. I have yet to replace the tie rod or entire axle in case it somehow re-bent itself (it was straightened by a guy who does drag cars and usually builds rends from scratch).

ridg3runner
03-10-2014, 10:02 PM
When was the last time you balanced your tires? Also, they "straightened" your axle?

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toxicwaste29
03-10-2014, 10:27 PM
When was the last time you balanced your tires? Also, they "straightened" your axle?

Sent from my DROID4 using WAYALIFE mobile app

Ya. the housing was bent not allowing the axle to rotate freely on the passenger side so the end of it was cut from the housing separating them then it was straightened and re welded. I am still on my stock tires and rims so I haven't balanced any of them. It only happens when hitting a bump going about 60. If I go 60 or more and hit no bumps it drives and tracks light a perfectly normal car/truck.

ridg3runner
03-10-2014, 10:34 PM
I would suggest getting the tires balanced before spending money on parts that may not even need to be replaced. Its quick, cheap and easy. Also, you should retorque the front end again as it can and will loosen up with each episode of DW.

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toxicwaste29
03-26-2014, 12:10 PM
After waiting for a track bar bushing to arrive from RK since I thought that was the issue, it finally arrived and I noticed thread grooves starting to get cut into the original metal bushing sleeve. I replaced both track bar ends with 9-16" grade 8 hardware; this was all on Monday. Ill also add I only unbolted the track bar and rebolted it; I didn't mess with any of the settings with it (jam nuts etc.). Tuesday I drove it to work fine. Today (Wednesday) I was on the highway and I heard a chime and looked at the dash; the abs, brake, and tc light came on and the mph gauge dropped down then shot right back up to my speed. The tc light remained on and the other two went away. About 5 minutes later there was another chime and the same abs, brake, and tc light came on. During this one the mph gauge also dropped down then back up right away (the background of the instrument cluster was flickering also which Im assuming is from all the lights being on at one). I finished driving it to work and the tc light is still on. The steering wheel isn't off centered and all I did was replace the original 14mm hardware with 9/16" which seems to have fixed the wobble but now this happened today. This happened in the past before but with only the tc light, the steering wheel wasn't centered at that time and since I have gotten a front end alignment. Any ideas what might be the problem?

wayoflife
03-26-2014, 03:16 PM
Did you happen to turn or allow your steering wheel to turn at all while you were working on your track bar? If so, you could have damaged your clock spring.

toxicwaste29
03-26-2014, 04:36 PM
Did you happen to turn or allow your steering wheel to turn at all while you were working on your track bar? If so, you could have damaged your clock spring.

While hooking it back up I had to have someone get inside and turn the steering wheel to line the hole on the frame side with the track bar hole. Is this not how it should be done? Also I just got in it for lunch and the tc light is off. Could it have just been a freak thing?

wayoflife
03-26-2014, 04:40 PM
While hooking it back up I had to have someone get inside and turn the steering wheel to line the hole on the frame side with the track bar hole. Is this not how it should be done? Also I just got in it for lunch and the tc light is off. Could it have just been a freak thing?

No, you would have wanted to do it like that and it would have only been a problem if the steering wheel got clocked. Maybe just a freak thing, hard to say for sure. If you still have lights on, disconnect your batter for 20 mins, reconnect it and see if it goes away.

toxicwaste29
03-26-2014, 09:31 PM
No, you would have wanted to do it like that and it would have only been a problem if the steering wheel got clocked. Maybe just a freak thing, hard to say for sure. If you still have lights on, disconnect your batter for 20 mins, reconnect it and see if it goes away.

It happened again on the way home. It chimed and the mph gauge went dead even though I was on the highway; the right side of the panel is flickering; and the abs/ tc/ and brake light are on. You can see the mph gauge jumping on its own. Is this a bad clock spring?


http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/rorrerjp/media/VID_20140326_171418_245_zps2760841b.mp4.html

toxicwaste29
03-26-2014, 09:35 PM
^let me know if you would like it uploaded to youtube instead so that it can be seen in better quality.

NM2012CherryJK
03-27-2014, 03:11 PM
Are the Track bar bolt 21 mm?? When talking about swapping 14 mm to 9/16 bolt are you talking about the control arms or track bar?? I am in the process of replacing my track bar and the 21 mm bolt seems to be a little small for the hole was thing to use a 22 mm bolt? Thanks for the help.

wayoflife
03-27-2014, 03:27 PM
It happened again on the way home. It chimed and the mph gauge went dead even though I was on the highway; the right side of the panel is flickering; and the abs/ tc/ and brake light are on. You can see the mph gauge jumping on its own. Is this a bad clock spring?


http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/rorrerjp/media/VID_20140326_171418_245_zps2760841b.mp4.html

I know it's unrelated to what you just did but, check your battery connections. Looks like one might be loose. Also, check the ground connections on the sides of your front fenders.

wayoflife
03-27-2014, 03:31 PM
Are the Track bar bolt 21 mm?? When talking about swapping 14 mm to 9/16 bolt are you talking about the control arms or track bar?? I am in the process of replacing my track bar and the 21 mm bolt seems to be a little small for the hole was thing to use a 22 mm bolt? Thanks for the help.

The socket you need to use is not the same thing as the diameter of the bolt itself. So long as you make sure your bolt is tightened to the proper torque spec as a part of routine maintenance, it will be fine. If you allow it to float around loose, it will wollow out your mount hole.

NM2012CherryJK
03-27-2014, 04:40 PM
The socket you need to use is not the same thing as the diameter of the bolt itself. So long as you make sure your bolt is tightened to the proper torque spec as a part of routine maintenance, it will be fine. If you allow it to float around loose, it will wollow out your mount hole.

Okay cool that's what I was thinking my drag link was bad and the local shop told me to change that out I was getting a bad death wobble.. The track bar looked good super tight and no movement was at 125 ft lbs so I'm replacing my steering components had some extra cash an taking to get rebalanced and an alignment..

jkmohican
03-31-2014, 04:27 AM
This is what kind of throws me off on the diagnosis of death wobble. After immense research and work that ive done to get rid of my death wobble, I learned that the only way true death wobble can be set on will be with a worn track bar, wallowed holes or bad bushings withint the track bar mounts. The reason for this is because considering the track bar is what is in charge of keeping the axle center, how could the axle oscillate to the point of death wobble with a properly maintained trackbar? I cant imagine it could. What throws me off is reading people who say ball joints or tie rod ends can cause death wobble, where in reality, they are just incharge of different steering componets that wont effect the position of the axle, so how are there so many stories of people with bad tie rod ends and ball joints causing death wobble when its really the track bar that can be the only culprit due to the fact that its the only component that can allow play in the axle position? Im most certainly not here to challenge anyone, I just want to know if someone understands where im coming from. By the way, great write up Eddie :thumbup:

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just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 01:40 PM
ive been dealing with a wobble for about 6 months now i have basically given up and keep considering just getting out of jeeps because of how annoying this is...

mines a 2012 with brand new 4" evo coils bilstien shocks

Parts so far replaced in last 6 months or 10,000km ;

Syngergy trac bar with sector brace and track bar brace
Staangs high steer kit with Hiem joints and DOM tube
Artec axle weld on track bar mount (1/4" thick) design for high steer kit
Evo knuckle gussets
MOOG balljoints
Mopar wheel bearings
new steering box
Currie control arms (lowers only)
new 38" toyo tires and rims


So you add all that crap up im in like 6000$ worth of stuff and yet i still get a wobble lucky me....

Not one mechanic can figure it out they all just say meh your tires are big what do you expect? like are you kidding me? look at a transport truck there tires are huge and they drive fine....

My last idea is a full PSC hydro assist kit theres another 2500$ dropped in front end crap and to me thats just a bandaid i should be able to go down the road fine with outit and not get a shimmy

It not a full on DW it just shimmys when going down the highway or on uneaven roads doing about 60km/h

Caster is +4.5 degree and Toe in is 1/8"

I have removed the front drive shaft a while ago to see if that played a role in it so the front end is all free now. I have read every article on wayalife and on jkowners and tried everything and it still have this problem so for those who are frustrated i know how you feel i hate driving my jeep just because of this problem i wish there was a place like EVO on ontario that would have an idea because they build lots of custom jeeps, no regular shop has any idea what half the stuff under my jeep even does or why its there!!

wayoflife
04-01-2014, 02:14 PM
ive been dealing with a wobble for about 6 months now i have basically given up and keep considering just getting out of jeeps because of how annoying this is...

You said it - what you're feeling isn't a "full on DW" and so I would have to say that's not what you're experiencing. A speed related shimmy is almost always caused by a tire balancing issue or issue with one of your wheels. If you've already had them balanced, I would have them balanced again. It's not uncommon to need more than one balancing to get really big off road tires on.

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 02:26 PM
Just dropped it off again getting road force balanced this time pressures checked again and tossing it back on laser alignment rack to double check everything yet again goodbye another 250$ probably haha damn it never ends!

wayoflife
04-01-2014, 02:29 PM
Just dropped it off again getting road force balanced this time pressures checked again and tossing it back on laser alignment rack to double check everything yet again goodbye another 250$ probably haha damn it never ends!

Is there nobody you know in your neck of the woods that will allow you to just swap wheels/tires for an hour? It would be free to do and would help you to determine if your tire are in fact your problem.

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 02:34 PM
I got a buddy on 33s I could probably swap in... Haven't asked haha

I'm pretty sure the problem is my steering box I have a clunk in the steering but this is my second box under warrenty it has like 20,000km on it and I have sector brace on it but I have about an inch of play in steering wheel thus why I'm leaning towards PSC kit


Funny thing is I put these 38s on a month it so ago and it drove amazing for a while and now I'm make to wobbles when nothing was changed... So just double checking everything.




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wayoflife
04-01-2014, 02:43 PM
I got a buddy on 33s I could probably swap in... Haven't asked haha

That's where I would start and have been able to determine it was my tires in the past. Again, it's free to do too.


I'm pretty sure the problem is my steering box I have a clunk in the steering but this is my second box under warrenty it has like 20,000km on it and I have sector brace on it but I have about an inch of play in steering wheel thus why I'm leaning towards PSC kit

Loose steering box will NOT cause a shimmy. Regarding your play, are you running a dropped pitman arm?


Funny thing is I put these 38s on a month it so ago and it drove amazing for a while and now I'm make to wobbles when nothing was changed... So just double checking everything.

Did you go wheeling between the time you got them installed and you starting having a shimmy?

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 02:46 PM
Have not done any wheeling (winter up here all trails are closed for sleds) nothing is open till May :(

I run a stock pitman arm with synergy brace and trac bar

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/01/y7yzezuh.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/01/tugebame.jpg

That's the set up currently last week everything is new


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wayoflife
04-01-2014, 02:56 PM
Okay, just wanted to cover the bases. All things being equal, I would check the torque on your pitman arm nut and verify that there is no movement there. To be clear, this is for the loose steering you feel. Regarding your shimmy, I would do a tire swap just to see if it makes a difference. Both are free to do.

OverlanderJK
04-01-2014, 03:42 PM
Are you sure it's a shimmy or is it driveline vibrations? If you've never had either the driveline vibrations could feel the same.

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 03:58 PM
I removed the front dirve shaft 3 weeks ago after reading that stuff haha the joints were blown anwyays...

the shimmy is in the wheel the sterring wheel shakes side to side about an inch but it does NOT drive me off the road and it WILL straighten out over time.. it comes and goes..

Pitman arm nut was checked 2 weeks ago its at 180ft/lbs

but if the jeep is running sitting on concrete my buddy turning the wheel inside the jeep the input shaft from firewall to steering box move about 1/2 revolution before sector shaft moves pitman arm.

To me with what little understanding i have so far would mean the gears inside the box have to much backlash and its new 20,000km never seen a trail and im not going to go back to the dealer and complain because they installed it when it was actually out of warrenty so they did me a favor..

I have read some people adjust the backlash on the box but i also understand that messes with the preload on the bearings and stuff so it can ruin the box but hell if its already worn out clearly its shot so adjusting it wont make it any worse! haha

waiting on the shop to get back to me this afternoon on tires balance and alignment spec to see how good i got it following the write up on here with the magnet protractor on pinion ;)

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 03:59 PM
Also thought i would say even with the new Artec trac bar mount designed for steering flip i still get a lot of bump steer...

I often wonder if the bump steer instigates the shimmy then i just power through it and it straightens out..

OverlanderJK
04-01-2014, 04:09 PM
I removed the front dirve shaft 3 weeks ago after reading that stuff haha the joints were blown anwyays...

the shimmy is in the wheel the sterring wheel shakes side to side about an inch but it does NOT drive me off the road and it WILL straighten out over time.. it comes and goes..

Pitman arm nut was checked 2 weeks ago its at 180ft/lbs

but if the jeep is running sitting on concrete my buddy turning the wheel inside the jeep the input shaft from firewall to steering box move about 1/2 revolution before sector shaft moves pitman arm.

To me with what little understanding i have so far would mean the gears inside the box have to much backlash and its new 20,000km never seen a trail and im not going to go back to the dealer and complain because they installed it when it was actually out of warrenty so they did me a favor..

I have read some people adjust the backlash on the box but i also understand that messes with the preload on the bearings and stuff so it can ruin the box but hell if its already worn out clearly its shot so adjusting it wont make it any worse! haha

waiting on the shop to get back to me this afternoon on tires balance and alignment spec to see how good i got it following the write up on here with the magnet protractor on pinion ;)

Have you looked into the rear driveshaft?

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 04:11 PM
I have not yet no, how would a rear drive shaft cause my steering wheel to shake back and forth? i could ask a friend to swap our shafts for a test drive if there is a reason for such a problem!!

Also should note that when its windy i am ALL over the road if i pass a transport truck it almost blows jeep in other lane pretty sure because of loose steering the tires kinda do what they want before it gets up to the steering wheel then i always over correct it..

OverlanderJK
04-01-2014, 04:15 PM
I have not yet no, how would a rear drive shaft cause my steering wheel to shake back and forth? i could ask a friend to swap our shafts for a test drive if there is a reason for such a problem!!

Also should note that when its windy i am ALL over the road if i pass a transport truck it almost blows jeep in other lane pretty sure because of loose steering the tires kinda do what they want before it gets up to the steering wheel then i always over correct it..

If it's a driveline vibration it could be your rear shaft. All you have to do is pull the rear shaft and drive in 4 high. If you don't have the shimmy it's probably your rear shaft.

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 04:17 PM
well i dont have a front shafts to do that haha because im waiting on northridge its been 4 weeks they still arnt sure when maybe 4 more to get me a coast front shaft there sold out so all i have is 2wd for next month :(

just-lift-it
04-01-2014, 08:56 PM
Just got it on the rack now these are the numbers all the techs took it for a drive and said this thing is messed it's all over the road and yet again no answers ugh there stumped

I think it needs more caster on the drivers side probably off by one turn on my currie arm hard to get them exact with a tape measure haha


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/02/vemejuga.jpg


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just-lift-it
04-02-2014, 01:28 PM
An update,

After getting is checked on alignment rack and road force balancing my tires yesterday a total of $500 ugh thats a ncie drive shaft money right there haha the jeep is driving a lot better then before but still isnt perfect.

I think the only sensations i am feeling now is bump steer causing the wheel to turn on me when hitting bumps but no more shimmy on the highway or blowing me around it drives straight and true

The tires were WAY off they guys were showing me before road force they were asking for like 10-12oz on some of them the dismounted the tires spun them to correct orientation on the rim to make it easier to balance i think the worst tire took 7oz on inside bead and 3oz on outside bead got the jeep up to 140km/h for about half a mile on the highway quick just to check for vibe smooth as a whistle

So now i need to adress the little bit of bump steer i have or maybe just live with it?? im not sure what others do about it

wayoflife
04-02-2014, 02:38 PM
An update,

After getting is checked on alignment rack and road force balancing my tires yesterday a total of $500 ugh thats a ncie drive shaft money right there haha the jeep is driving a lot better then before but still isnt perfect.

I think the only sensations i am feeling now is bump steer causing the wheel to turn on me when hitting bumps but no more shimmy on the highway or blowing me around it drives straight and true

The tires were WAY off they guys were showing me before road force they were asking for like 10-12oz on some of them the dismounted the tires spun them to correct orientation on the rim to make it easier to balance i think the worst tire took 7oz on inside bead and 3oz on outside bead got the jeep up to 140km/h for about half a mile on the highway quick just to check for vibe smooth as a whistle

So now i need to adress the little bit of bump steer i have or maybe just live with it?? im not sure what others do about it

Glad to hear it really was something as simple as a tire balancing issue, just like I thought.

Regarding your steering, is it safe to assume you do not have a draglink flip/front track bar relocation bracket installed?

just-lift-it
04-02-2014, 02:41 PM
Yeah thanks Eddie!

As for the steering i have both if you look back a few posts i added photos of my front end set up.

Its a custom made DOM tube with hiem joints high steer kit with stock pitman arm
Followed by a Artec weld on trac bar mount on axle designed for high steer flip kits!

when sitting flat on stop concrete floor the trac bar axle mount is still about 1" lower then my drag link mount on the knuckel... thats why i think i have bump steer still its only an inch but hey that could be causing different arc paths through suspension cycle

just-lift-it
04-02-2014, 02:44 PM
I run a stock pitman arm with synergy sector shaft brace and trac bar with custom drag link

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/01/y7yzezuh.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/01/tugebame.jpg

That's the set up currently last week everything is new


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

wayoflife
04-02-2014, 02:45 PM
Yeah thanks Eddie!

As for the steering i have both if you look back a few posts i added photos of my front end set up.

Its a custom made DOM tube with hiem joints high steer kit with stock pitman arm
Followed by a Artec weld on trac bar mount on axle designed for high steer flip kits!

when sitting flat on stop concrete floor the trac bar axle mount is still about 1" lower then my drag link mount on the knuckel... thats why i think i have bump steer still its only an inch but hey that could be causing different arc paths through suspension cycle

Sorry, must have missed the post and yes, if your track bar and drag link are not parallel to each other, it WILL jack up your handling. This is the reason why I don't recommend mixing and matching steering kits.

just-lift-it
04-02-2014, 02:47 PM
Im contemplating doing a little more custom mods to it to try and overcome this scenario but other then what i think im feeling is bump steer it seems ok!

I do still have the notorious clunk in the steering box so i know the backlash in there is bad which is giving a lot of play at the steering wheel but i dont have $2600 for PSC kit at the moment... maybe someday i know its needed seeing as this is my second steering box in a year haha

wayoflife
04-02-2014, 02:49 PM
Im contemplating doing a little more custom mods to it to try and overcome this scenario but other then what i think im feeling is bump steer it seems ok!

I do still have the notorious clunk in the steering box so i know the backlash in there is bad which is giving a lot of play at the steering wheel but i dont have $2600 for PSC kit at the moment... maybe someday i know its needed seeing as this is my second steering box in a year haha

Is there a reason why you haven't just tried making an adjustment to the box?

just-lift-it
04-02-2014, 02:53 PM
I have adjusted that little screw type thing on the top to tighten it up but after doing that i read a ton of threads on multiple 4x4 forums saying if you touch that screw you ruin the steering box..

my thoughts were hell if its already fawked and full of play what could it hurt?

I was going to call PSC and ask if i can get just their proted box for now then upgrade it later with the rest of the kit so its not a big hit all at once in my pocket and atleast get it tight for on the street i know it wont help offroad at all...

Slappy32
04-26-2014, 07:02 PM
Are the 9/16" Grade 8 shoulder bolt replacements for track bars and control arms silly, necessary or somewhere in the middle?

MTG
04-26-2014, 07:11 PM
Are the 9/16" Grade 8 shoulder bolt replacements for track bars and control arms silly, necessary or somewhere in the middle?

The first one. :yup:

But so I can beat wayoflife to it, if you decide to replace yours will you send me your factory ones? I'll pay for shipping.

BigBlue1872
05-04-2014, 05:12 AM
Edited

Helped me fix mine. Changed inner drag link (main problem), tie rod, and balljoints.

OverlanderJK
05-04-2014, 05:15 AM
edited

Helped me fix mine. Changed inner drag link (main problem), tie rod, and balljoints.

Sorry but your link has been edited out. That individual has shown hatred toward Wayalife and the forum and is not welcomed here. Hope you'll understand.

swinscoet
07-04-2014, 09:14 PM
I had a bad case. Could not see anything obvious. I changed the bolts on the track bar and tightened to spec. Still had it. Two Jeep dealerships mentioned my tires were cheep and could be the problem. I bought new tires (Duratrac) and poof! Gone!

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turbineguy
07-16-2014, 08:37 PM
I've been having some sporadic wobble issue.... usually around 30 -40 MPH. It's not violent (I had a loose track bar once that gave me violent wobble), but more like rhythmic wobble that I have to slow down to get out of. It's only happened twice, and seems to need the exact right combination issues. I had a reputable shop go through everything (ball joints, bolts, unit bearing, steering box, etc...), and they found nothing. They re-torqued everything to spec and checked all bushings and bolt holes.

It still happened, though less often.

I am going to have all new synergy steering components installed next week (raised welded on track bar bracket, track bar, frame side bracket, drag link with flip, sector shaft reinforcement).

I am also going to have my 37 MTR's rebalanced and rotated tomorrow.

My question is this... today I noticed that my drag link clamps weren't aligned with my drag link adjustor sleeve seam (see this thread for details http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?18411-Drag-Link-Adjustments-after-Wheeling)

I fixed it, re-tightened up the clamps and went for a little drive. I swear my steering feels a bit tighter, and I couldn't induce any wobble.

Is it possible that this was the cause of my wobble?

Note: I am still going to have the other stuff done if it was, but wanted to check.

cozdude
07-16-2014, 08:48 PM
I've been having some sporadic wobble issue.... usually around 30 -40 MPH. It's not violent (I had a loose track bar once that gave me violent wobble), but more like rhythmic wobble that I have to slow down to get out of. It's only happened twice, and seems to need the exact right combination issues. I had a reputable shop go through everything (ball joints, bolts, unit bearing, steering box, etc...), and they found nothing. They re-torqued everything to spec and checked all bushings and bolt holes.

It still happened, though less often.

I am going to have all new synergy steering components installed next week (raised welded on track bar bracket, track bar, frame side bracket, drag link with flip, sector shaft reinforcement).

I am also going to have my 37 MTR's rebalanced and rotated tomorrow.

My question is this... today I noticed that my drag link clamps weren't aligned with my drag link adjustor sleeve seam (see this thread for details http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?18411-Drag-Link-Adjustments-after-Wheeling)

I fixed it, re-tightened up the clamps and went for a little drive. I swear my steering feels a bit tighter, and I couldn't induce any wobble.

Is it possible that this was the cause of my wobble?

Note: I am still going to have the other stuff done if it was, but wanted to check.


it could just be a balance issue. try and get them road force balanced when you do and not a static balance. it iwll be more expensive but worth it.

turbineguy
07-16-2014, 08:59 PM
it could just be a balance issue. try and get them road force balanced when you do and not a static balance. it iwll be more expensive but worth it.

check. thanks.

DCTomlin19
12-27-2014, 06:43 PM
So I just experienced the death wobble yesterday and it's definitely something I do not want to happen again. I just lifted my JKU with a 3.5 RK lift and have had some annoying bump steer. So I am sure I am in need of a drag link flip and raised track bar bracket. Anybody have experience with the synergy kit? http://www.northridge4x4.com/synergy-mfg-jk-front-steering-correction-kit-8011
Also do you think this will stop the death wobble?

OverlanderJK
12-27-2014, 06:51 PM
So I just experienced the death wobble yesterday and it's definitely something I do not want to happen again. I just lifted my JKU with a 3.5 RK lift and have had some annoying bump steer. So I am sure I am in need of a drag link flip and raised track bar bracket. Anybody have experience with the synergy kit? http://www.northridge4x4.com/synergy-mfg-jk-front-steering-correction-kit-8011
Also do you think this will stop the death wobble?

It will not stop your death wobble. You probably have a loose track bar bolt.

crowrb29
03-02-2015, 02:59 AM
So I had some wobble/shimmy Pop up last week Sunday. Been attacking different things all week. Tightened every Susp. Checked my ball joints and Unit bearings. It has gotten better but it still pops up around 40-50 mph. I've rotated and rebalanced the tires and done my own alignment and an alignment at a shop. Driven it with and without the steering stabilizer.... I can't think of anything else to try to tweak. Ball and U joints are good. Kind of at a loss right now. It's semi drivable but I don't want my wife or anyone other than me to be driving and have them feel like the whole jeep is falling apart(this only happened the first day I noticed it).

wayoflife
03-02-2015, 03:01 AM
So I had some wobble/shimmy Pop up last week Sunday. Been attacking different things all week. Tightened every Susp. Checked my ball joints and Unit bearings. It has gotten better but it still pops up around 40-50 mph. I've rotated and rebalanced the tires and done my own alignment and an alignment at a shop. Driven it with and without the steering stabilizer.... I can't think of anything else to try to tweak. Ball and U joints are good. Kind of at a loss right now. It's semi drivable but I don't want my wife or anyone other than me to be driving and have them feel like the whole jeep is falling apart(this only happened the first day I noticed it).

So, when you say it pops up at about 40-50 MPH, what pops up? Are you saying that your Jeep starts to shake so violently that you have to come to a near stop to make it stop? Or, are you saying that you just have a bad shimmy in the steering wheel at that speed? When you say that you checked your ball joints and unit bearings, did you use a dial indicator?

crowrb29
03-02-2015, 03:33 AM
So, when you say it pops up at about 40-50 MPH, what pops up? Are you saying that your Jeep starts to shake so violently that you have to come to a near stop to make it stop? Or, are you saying that you just have a bad shimmy in the steering wheel at that speed? When you say that you checked your ball joints and unit bearings, did you use a dial indicator?

Last week it was like the jeep was doing the Harlem Shake down the highway. Ripped the steering wheel from my hand and had to stop and limp back home. The frame side track bar bolt was a tiny bit loose as well as the drivers side LCA on both ends. I tightened both and checked everything else to TQ spec and everything is good now. Still shimmying. Sometimes just bump steer sometimes it feels like the beginnings of DW but now I can either, usually, slow down or speed through it. I haven't used a micrometer or dial indicator, but I will be if I can't nail this thing down before the end of the week.I'd go earlier but the place I can borrow one at doesn't open back up until Wednesday. I did check the tie rod ends with a pair of channel locks and there was some up/down play.

wayoflife
03-02-2015, 03:57 AM
Last week it was like the jeep was doing the Harlem Shake down the highway. Ripped the steering wheel from my hand and had to stop and limp back home. The frame side track bar bolt was a tiny bit loose as well as the drivers side LCA on both ends. I tightened both and checked everything else to TQ spec and everything is good now. Still shimmying. Sometimes just bump steer sometimes it feels like the beginnings of DW but now I can either, usually, slow down or speed through it. I haven't used a micrometer or dial indicator, but I will be if I can't nail this thing down before the end of the week.I'd go earlier but the place I can borrow one at doesn't open back up until Wednesday. I did check the tie rod ends with a pair of channel locks and there was some up/down play.

Regarding your ball joints, here's what you do:
1. From the axle, use a good floor jack to lift one of your tire off the ground. If you don't have a good floor jack, set your axle on a jack stand to hold it up securely in place.
2. From the side, place a long pry bar under the tire and have someone lift it up and down while you watch the lower ball joint for axial (up and down) movement. Any movement more than 0.050" is too much and would indicate that your ball joint is bad. Of course, if you can see this movement with your eyes, it's definitely bad.
3. Next, grab the tire at the 12 and 6 o'clock position and try to rock it back and forth while you have someone watch the upper joint for any movement. Any radial (side-to-side) movement more than 0.060" is too much. Again, if you can see the movement with your eyes and without any dial indicator, it's probably bad as well.

It doesn't take much for a ball joint to be bad. Same is true of your unit bearings.

OverlanderJK
03-02-2015, 04:00 AM
This is what a bad unit bearing looks like.

https://instagram.com/p/zJJDQ5rPW-/

wayoflife
03-02-2015, 04:01 AM
This is what a bad unit bearing looks like.

https://instagram.com/p/zJJDQ5rPW-/

LOL!! That thing is beyond bad. :cheesy:

OverlanderJK
03-02-2015, 04:02 AM
LOL!! That thing is beyond bad. :cheesy:

Haha.

128007

Moochie
03-02-2015, 04:36 AM
This is what a bad unit bearing looks like.

https://instagram.com/p/zJJDQ5rPW-/

Here's my clip of a destroyed unit bearing.

http://youtu.be/XDZ2beE5odQ

10frank9
03-02-2015, 04:37 AM
Here's my clip of a destroyed unit bearing.

http://youtu.be/XDZ2beE5odQ

Were you running racing slicks too? :cheesy:

crowrb29
03-02-2015, 05:46 AM
Thanks!!! I should be able to get my hands on a dial indicator later this week. All the write ups on the forum are always so helpful. Saved me a lot of $$$ and helped me get a whole lot more intimate with the inner workings of my jeep.

onebuilder
03-19-2015, 04:08 PM
I also am chasing DW on my '13 JKR with 3.5 AEV lift on 35 KM2 and 14,000 miles. How much up and down movement in the upper ball joint is acceptable?

USMC Wrangler
03-19-2015, 04:31 PM
I also am chasing DW on my '13 JKR with 3.5 AEV lift on 35 KM2 and 14,000 miles. How much up and down movement in the upper ball joint is acceptable?

Looks like more than 0.060" in the uppers is too much..


Regarding your ball joints, here's what you do:
1. From the axle, use a good floor jack to lift one of your tire off the ground. If you don't have a good floor jack, set your axle on a jack stand to hold it up securely in place.
2. From the side, place a long pry bar under the tire and have someone lift it up and down while you watch the lower ball joint for axial (up and down) movement. Any movement more than 0.050" is too much and would indicate that your ball joint is bad. Of course, if you can see this movement with your eyes, it's definitely bad.
3. Next, grab the tire at the 12 and 6 o'clock position and try to rock it back and forth while you have someone watch the upper joint for any movement. Any radial (side-to-side) movement more than 0.060" is too much. Again, if you can see the movement with your eyes and without any dial indicator, it's probably bad as well.

It doesn't take much for a ball joint to be bad. Same is true of your unit bearings.

onebuilder
03-19-2015, 06:08 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, aren't the uppers suppose to have some up and down movement? Just not side to side

Stepsride
04-08-2015, 08:44 PM
So if I have a slight clicking in the Steering box or even a little play in the sector shaft this will not cause a shimmy in the steering wheel. I want to clarify and hopefully save some $$$$. I have a shimmy (Shimmy defined as: at 50-55mph on smooth roads it is fine. Any irregularities will cause the steering wheel to get a vibration and if I hit RR tracks it will rock back and forth sometimes 3-4x and settle back down, Rocking from 1 to 11 oclock)

I was ready to buy a new steering box today but not sure anymore from this comment below. I have a 3.5X factor RK kit with steering correction. I have torqued everything down, Tie rod ends have a little up and down play when I squeeze them with channel locks. When sitting there is very little up and down motion when I turn the steering wheel when parked. (Tie rods ends and drag link) 35 inch BFG tires are balanced and running 25PSI. Replaced ball joints with new metal on metal NOT oem

Any thoughts? Never had this before and want to get rid of it without just throwing parts at it ie Sector shaft new Tie rod with ends ....



That's where I would start and have been able to determine it was my tires in the past. Again, it's free to do too.



Loose steering box will NOT cause a shimmy. Regarding your play, are you running a dropped pitman arm?



Did you go wheeling between the time you got them installed and you starting having a shimmy?

Highpockets
04-14-2015, 03:55 PM
I have an 08 unlimited and a case of the dreaded DW.. Had upper and lower ball joints on both sides replaced with moogs and was good for a couple weekend then yesterday BOOM💥.. It's back.. Moving on to replace the track bar now..

theprospect13
04-27-2015, 11:42 PM
2 weeks after I bought the heep with 32k on it I got death wobble! Dealership said it was the stabilizer and they wanted to charge me for it. Told them to shove it, took it to a 4x4 shop, they sold me a stabilizer (skyjacker) happened 5 minutes down the road from the shop. Went back, They said I needed ball joints. I then went home and ordered a ball joint press kit and did it myself. 75k later guess what's back! Note to self, don't replace oem parts with oem parts! Just bought new bj's should be installing this weekend.

BlackHabuJKU12
05-07-2015, 11:25 AM
Two days ago, my DW got substantially worse after I rotated my tires.

I had my tires balanced yesterday, asking for a Road Force Balance, I was told the balancer could not balance my tires because the coned shaped nut wouldn't fit on due to the ring on my bead locker PS wheels. So I got the standard balance, anyone have recommendations around that problem.

Has anyone used or recommend Magnum Balance Plus?

DW is still their. So I checked track bar for play, I did not see any when turning wheel from left to right. But I did see a lot of flexing and bending in this JKS adjustable track bar. I also re-torqued (9/16 grade 8 bolts) my track bar to 125 lbs.

Dumb question: I thought I read, the track bar is not supposed to bend and flex. Am I right? If so...this all started after I installed this crap thinking I was upgrading to a heavy duty TB. Since then I've been chasing ghosts, probably progressively making other parts fail.

cozdude
05-07-2015, 11:33 AM
Two days ago, my DW got substantially worse after I rotated my tires.

I had my tires balanced yesterday, asking for a Road Force Balance, I was told the balancer could not balance my tires because the coned shaped nut wouldn't fit on due to the ring on my bead locker PS wheels. So I got the standard balance, anyone have recommendations around that problem.

Has anyone used or recommend Magnum Balance Plus?

DW is still their. So I checked track bar for play, I did not see any when turning wheel from left to right. But I did see a lot of flexing and bending in this JKS adjustable track bar. I also re-torqued (9/16 grade 8 bolts) my track bar to 125 lbs.

Dumb question: I thought I read, the track bar is not supposed to bend and flex. Am I right? If so...this all started after I installed this crap thinking I was upgrading to a heavy duty TB. Since then I've been chasing ghosts, probably progressively making other parts fail.

I would loo for another shop that can do road force balancing. They should be able to do it even with the ring.

As far as the trackbar I would switch back to the stock one. If you have 3" of lift or over I would get the evo drag link flip kit.

BlackHabuJKU12
05-10-2015, 02:25 PM
I would loo for another shop that can do road force balancing. They should be able to do it even with the ring.

As far as the trackbar I would switch back to the stock one. If you have 3" of lift or over I would get the evo drag link flip kit.

Here's the results of my trouble shooting. Removed the JKS track bar, because it was bowing/flexing when steered LH/RH, found the bushing looking like they were starting to dry rot. Installed the factor track bar. Sill DW. Rotated the back LH tire to the front, still DW. Found lots of bolts that required re-torqued. Found the two from control arms bushing worn out. Temp fixed the bushing with tape to close the gap. They are the Skyjacker three piece from what I gather not the best style bushing, and 3 yrs old. Anyways, it definitely help the situation. There's barely any shake now. New bushings are ordered. I'm considering ordering new bushings for everything.

BlackBandit
09-11-2015, 05:53 AM
Well the parts that are causes of death wobble are the trackbar, steering linkages, wheel berrings, upper and lower balljoints, upper and lower control arms and some times big tires tend to give a shakey feeling in the wheel because they have more weight and tend to wonder on the road. A steering stablizer fixes that. When I had death wobble I did all of the above and it fixed it. It was a combo of old and retarded parts. It's all moog now ;p

OverlanderJK
09-11-2015, 06:43 PM
Well the parts that are causes of death wobble are the trackbar, steering linkages, wheel berrings, upper and lower balljoints, upper and lower control arms and some times big tires tend to give a shakey feeling in the wheel because they have more weight and tend to wonder on the road. A steering stablizer fixes that. When I had death wobble I did all of the above and it fixed it. It was a combo of old and retarded parts. It's all moog now ;p

Most of that is not true.

wayoflife
09-11-2015, 06:45 PM
Most of that is not true.

What he said ^^^^^^^

ERAUGrad04
09-11-2015, 07:57 PM
Well the parts that are causes of death wobble are the trackbar, steering linkages, wheel berrings, upper and lower balljoints, upper and lower control arms and some times big tires tend to give a shakey feeling in the wheel because they have more weight and tend to wonder on the road. A steering stablizer fixes that. When I had death wobble I did all of the above and it fixed it. It was a combo of old and retarded parts. It's all moog now ;p

A steering stabilizer never fixes anything rather it just merely masks a bigger problem. Find the problem and you can fix death wobble. Mask the problem and it will only be worse next time it rears its ugly head.

Soup6029
11-06-2015, 08:17 PM
Great thread. I have been away from Jeeps for about 13 years. I bought a 2012 JK in August, and started getting the DW about a month ago. Balanced the tires, still there. Checked the ball joints and they were bad. Replaced them last night and had a new alignment this morning, took the jeep for a good long ride on my lunch break, and it drives like new.

WJCO
11-06-2015, 08:21 PM
Great thread. I have been away from Jeeps for about 13 years. I bought a 2012 JK in August, and started getting the DW about a month ago. Balanced the tires, still there. Checked the ball joints and they were bad. Replaced them last night and had a new alignment this morning, took the jeep for a good long ride on my lunch break, and it drives like new.

Good deal. Hope it stays fixed for you. DW sucks.

bonedaddy
11-19-2015, 01:09 AM
First forgive my inexperience and if this is a stupid question ... So I measured and it seems that after my 2.5 TF spring lift and Trackbar install my axle if off about 1/4 in more on the drivers side than the passenger side... Not having the axle centered would that cause DW? I just put an adjustable TF monster Trackbar on I got off a friend and after putting it on I was taking measurements so see if it was off with how ever he had it adjusted... I will be taking it into the shop for an alignment this week, I am sure I am having tire issues as well but I know the issues in the rig are a combo deal ... I was just wondering as I try to educate myself on the geometry of my JKU ... Rig only has 21k on it and the lift and 35's have been on for maybe a month and a half so I wouldn't think my ball joints would be an issue even though I know the stock ones will go quick under strain ... I have had the wheel balance about 4 times now , but wonder if the KM2's being on the stock wheels and how they call for at least an 8.5" rim might not be helping the situation ... I

I have been trying to read and learn about as much of this shit as I can...

Thanks in advance for the info...

cozdude
11-19-2015, 01:16 AM
First forgive my inexperience and if this is a stupid question ... So I measured and it seems that after my 2.5 TF spring lift and Trackbar install my axle if off about 1/4 in more on the drivers side than the passenger side... Not having the axle centered would that cause DW? I just put an adjustable TF monster Trackbar on I got off a friend and after putting it on I was taking measurements so see if it was off with how ever he had it adjusted... I will be taking it into the shop for an alignment this week, I am sure I am having tire issues as well but I know the issues in the rig are a combo deal ... I was just wondering as I try to educate myself on the geometry of my JKU ... Rig only has 21k on it and the lift and 35's have been on for maybe a month and a half so I wouldn't think my ball joints would be an issue even though I know the stock ones will go quick under strain ... I have had the wheel balance about 4 times now , but wonder if the KM2's being on the stock wheels and how they call for at least an 8.5" rim might not be helping the situation ... I

I have been trying to read and learn about as much of this shit as I can...

Thanks in advance for the info...

Being that jks have a solid axle there really isn't much you can do about your axle being off center. As soon as you put weight in your jeep it will shift again anyway. Also this will not cause death wobble.

What will cause death wobble is your tires being out of balance, bad ball joints, loose bolts in your trackbar/steering, geometry, etc. for tire balance I HIGHLY suggest a road force balance over a static balance. Also for an alignment you can do it yourself in the driveway for free.

Trailjunkies
11-21-2015, 03:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncTgYl7P_TE&feature=youtu.be

RoughRider
11-21-2015, 04:12 PM
This made me laugh 174578

WJCO
11-21-2015, 06:18 PM
This made me laugh 174578

Just get the gusset kit and be done with it.

legaleli
12-16-2015, 10:33 PM
The cause of mine was too neutral a caster angle and also likely geometry changes after I installed a 3 inch lift. I just installed a geometry correction kit and now she's rolling like a top.

WJCO
06-07-2017, 04:16 AM
I'm posting this here because I think it will be seen here the most. Eddie is constantly reminding members to use a torque wrench and thank God he is. Here's a perfect example of why. I installed a new axle with new track bar bolts. And new track bar bushings and bushing sleeves. For the last 500 miles or so, I have a slight shimmy and a lot of wandering. I tracked it down to a loose lower track bar bolt. Tightening it fixes both issues for a short time. I've tightened it about 10 times and within twenty miles or so, it loosens back up. Today, I decided to replace the bolt as I'm getting tired of this. And I found that right where the nut torqued down, the threads are flat and stretched. I never used a torque wrench and overtightened the nut and damaged the bolt threads. So with the new bolt I used a torque wrench. Drives awesome! 2nd tightest thing I've ever felt. Good learning lesson for me, every bolt has a torque spec for a reason.

262291

TRLJNKY
06-07-2017, 04:43 AM
Glad you found your issue. A very good lesson learned to share. Im guilty of using my impact on my track bar also. Now I got to check mine out lol. Thx for sharing

It's half past f'it with the CAPS lock on!

JKDream
06-07-2017, 04:18 PM
2nd tightest thing I've ever felt.

:brows:
lol

ADA OZ
07-07-2017, 04:00 PM
And now I'm doing all the recommended checking as I have developed DW ...


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Lasvegasdenny
08-12-2017, 06:46 PM
I was having a slight steering wobble after putting in a 2.5Ē budget boost. After reading this write-up, I found all my control arms and lower trackbar hardware out of torque specs. Havenít gone for a test ride yet but everything is tight now. Thanks for the info...


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AlStew
03-23-2018, 09:57 PM
I have had a few death wobble experiences since TDS this year. Thanks for making these Eddie, they're always helpful.

AlStew
03-24-2018, 01:54 AM
297150
Frame side track bar bushing was so bad


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DaveO
04-04-2018, 12:45 PM
I was out in New Mexico, Utah, Colorado this past January and February and started experiencing Death Wobble. Got back home and had it looked at, thinking it was wheel bearings. Was told the whole steering assembly was toast. $900 later, a new steering assembly. Drove it around town for a couple weeks and no Death Wobble.

Yesterday morning I was heading back out to Colorado, in a driving rainstorm I might add, pulling my TCTeardrop trailer. About 30 miles down the road BAM, Death Wobble. A couple miles later, again and then again and again. Finally got off the Interstate and headed back home. Talked to a tire shop that does all the 4WD work in town. And learned painfully there is no clear cause but a lot of things that might cause it.

Well, the steering was ruled out but they suggested ball joints and getting the tires balanced. I'm real close to needing new tires in the front too. I have an appointment in the morning to have it looked at. Then hopefully back on the road and headed to Colorado.

THANK YOU so much for this post and all the replies. A wealth of information here. I'm passing it on to my brother in law, he and I looked at a lot of things yesterday to try and tell what was going on.

OverlanderJK
04-04-2018, 01:14 PM
I was out in New Mexico, Utah, Colorado this past January and February and started experiencing Death Wobble. Got back home and had it looked at, thinking it was wheel bearings. Was told the whole steering assembly was toast. $900 later, a new steering assembly. Drove it around town for a couple weeks and no Death Wobble.

Yesterday morning I was heading back out to Colorado, in a driving rainstorm I might add, pulling my TCTeardrop trailer. About 30 miles down the road BAM, Death Wobble. A couple miles later, again and then again and again. Finally got off the Interstate and headed back home. Talked to a tire shop that does all the 4WD work in town. And learned painfully there is no clear cause but a lot of things that might cause it.

Well, the steering was ruled out but they suggested ball joints and getting the tires balanced. I'm real close to needing new tires in the front too. I have an appointment in the morning to have it looked at. Then hopefully back on the road and headed to Colorado.

THANK YOU so much for this post and all the replies. A wealth of information here. I'm passing it on to my brother in law, he and I looked at a lot of things yesterday to try and tell what was going on.

Welcome to Wayalife. What all was included in the ďsteering assemblyĒ and who did the work? Sounds like you got fed a load of crap from the shop and they screwed you. There usually IS a clear cause of death wobble.


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Jeep-N-Jeffy
06-22-2019, 07:50 PM
I have not experienced the dreaded DW, but I have recently purchased and lifted a 2015 Wrangler JK with less than perfect tread on 35's. As of yesterday the jeep has a 3.5 Rubicon Express Sport Lift and a new dampener shock as well. I do not have the additional cash for a new set of tires and decided not to balance them because I will buy new tires in a couple of months. I cannot justify spending the cash on balancing, but should I? Thanks in advance for your advice :yup:

danford.lau
06-22-2019, 08:06 PM
Yep just went through this. Check tie rod ends, drag link ends, track bar bushings, bolts to the track bar bracket, ball joints, and unit bearings . Doubt itís tires unless balance is way off . DW sucks good luck


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TrailHunter
07-03-2019, 03:35 AM
Well it's official... I have DW. Coming off the trail last weekend I felt it when hitting potholes on the fire road. When I connected the swaybar it went away but it still felt like it kind of wanted to. This week I have checked all the bolts and everything seems fine. I replaced the drag link joints on both ends but I still get DW when I hit a bump on one side while the sway bar is disconnected. Everything felt solid before the Trail run.... and the Jeep only has 15,000 miles on it. Ball Joints? Track Bar Bushings are damaged? I'm trying to figure out my next move.

OverlanderJK
07-03-2019, 03:36 AM
Probably the shit track bar that comes on the new ones. I threw that shit away shortly after my lift years ago. Shit bushing in it.


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TrailHunter
07-03-2019, 03:38 AM
Probably the shit track bar that comes on the new ones. I threw that shit away shortly after my lift years ago. Shit bushing in it.


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I down to swap it out as my next step.... Whats a solid replacement?

OverlanderJK
07-03-2019, 03:42 AM
I down to swap it out as my next step.... Whats a solid replacement?

Factory. Just make sure it has the old style bushings. 2011 and prior.


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TrailHunter
07-03-2019, 03:48 AM
Factory. Just make sure it has the old style bushings. 2011 and prior.


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Hmm... that might be hard to find... maybe synergy or Rancho?

OverlanderJK
07-03-2019, 03:55 AM
Hmm... that might be hard to find... maybe synergy or Rancho?

Pretty sure the crown replacements come with the good bushings.


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BaddestCross
07-03-2019, 05:59 AM
I down to swap it out as my next step.... Whats a solid replacement?What Adam said, but if you're looking for more, I can't say enough good things about the Currie Currectlync steering setup.



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TrailHunter
07-03-2019, 06:25 AM
Pretty sure the crown replacements come with the good bushings.


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What Adam said, but if you're looking for more, I can't say enough good things about the Currie Currectlync steering setup.



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Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407

Iíll see what I can find local tomorrow.

Seahawkfan
07-03-2019, 09:03 AM
Hmm... that might be hard to find... maybe synergy or Rancho?

Have one sitting in my garage. I'm not home now and won't be for awhile. If I can get my son to find it , maybe we can work out a way of getting it to you. We're talking 2011 track bar correct?

TrailHunter
07-03-2019, 12:24 PM
Have one sitting in my garage. I'm not home now and won't be for awhile. If I can get my son to find it , maybe we can work out a way of getting it to you. We're talking 2011 track bar correct?

I appreciate that, but I need to find one today, and Iím cool with picking up a new one. Thank you.

rubiDave
07-03-2019, 12:37 PM
I appreciate that, but I need to find one today, and Iím cool with picking up a new one. Thank you.Are you sure it's the track bar? Did you diagnose it as such? Have you burned the raised trackbar bracket to the axle yet?

In my case it was the pitman end of the draglink causing wobble. It barely had any play in it, but once replaced the wobble went away.

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cozdude
07-03-2019, 12:41 PM
Factory. Just make sure it has the old style bushings. 2011 and prior.


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Hmm... that might be hard to find... maybe synergy or Rancho?


Pretty sure the crown replacements come with the good bushings.


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What Adam said^^ the crown factory replacement has the old style bushing in it. I recently replaced mine and can confirm.

https://www.quadratec.com/products/56013_0006.htm

TrailHunter
07-03-2019, 12:44 PM
Are you sure it's the track bar? Did you diagnose it as such? Have you burned the raised trackbar bracket to the axle yet?

In my case it was the pitman end of the draglink causing wobble. It barely had any play in it, but once replaced the wobble went away.

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The bolts are tight, but Iím going to weld it when I get a chance... and I replaced both ends of the drag link... a new track bar is the next logical move.

rubiDave
07-03-2019, 12:46 PM
The bolts are tight, but Iím going to weld it when I get a chance... and I replaced both ends of the drag link... a new track bar is the next logical move.Check your LCA adjuster pinch bolts too if you haven't already. Mine loosened up after the 1st wheeling trip.

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Seahawkfan
07-03-2019, 02:10 PM
I appreciate that, but I need to find one today, and Iím cool with picking up a new one. Thank you.

No problem. Hope you get it all sorted out.:beer:

TrailHunter
07-04-2019, 02:12 AM
Update: Since the new Drag link ends didn’t help much, I got a new Synergy track bar installed. Worked out good because I was able to center the Axle better. The stock Track Bar definitely seems worn at the frame end. I went back (disconnected sway bar & no stabilizer) and hit the same pot hole 5 times and it never went into full death Wobble like before... But It did seem like it wanted to a little though.... So I’m Not 100% satisfied. Tomorrow I will weld the track bar bracket to the axle.... if that doesn’t tighten it up, I’ll be ordering Ball Joints.

330152

TrailHunter
07-04-2019, 03:42 AM
So I jacked up each side of the axle and put a lever under the tire. There is definitely play in the ball joint up and down.. I'd say a good 1/16" on all 4... I could see easily see the ball joint and the axle shaft moving up & down.... at 12&6 there it feels pretty solid. Is that normal? Would that cause DW?

WJCO
07-04-2019, 04:26 AM
So I jacked up each side of the axle and put a lever under the tire. There is definitely play in the ball joint up and down.. I'd say a good 1/16" on all 4... I could see easily see the ball joint and the axle shaft moving up & down.... at 12&6 there it feels pretty solid. Is that normal? Would that cause DW?

Spec is .055 I believe. So yeah, they're probably bad.

BaddestCross
07-04-2019, 04:35 AM
So I jacked up each side of the axle and put a lever under the tire. There is definitely play in the ball joint up and down.. I'd say a good 1/16" on all 4... I could see easily see the ball joint and the axle shaft moving up & down.... at 12&6 there it feels pretty solid. Is that normal? Would that cause DW?If you can see it move they're bad. [emoji23]



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TrailHunter
07-04-2019, 04:46 AM
Spec is .055 I believe. So yeah, they're probably bad.


If you can see it move they're bad. [emoji23]



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That's what I figured.... I'm about to order up some ProSteers.

OverlanderJK
07-04-2019, 01:26 PM
That's what I figured.... I'm about to order up some ProSteers.

Are you sure itís ball joints and not unit bearings?


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TrailHunter
07-04-2019, 01:45 PM
Are you sure itís ball joints and not unit bearings?


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No but it seems pretty solid when pushing at 12 & 6. There is definite play up & down.

TrailHunter
07-05-2019, 11:53 PM
ProSteers Installed, Death Wobble Gone. Feels like new again. [emoji1417]

330249

rubiDave
07-06-2019, 12:01 AM
ProSteers Installed, Death Wobble Gone. Feels like new again. [emoji1417]

330249You mean it isn't too stiff?

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TrailHunter
07-06-2019, 12:12 AM
You mean it isn't too stiff?

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Feels great to me. Maybe slightly tight which is expected... Every new Ball Joint is a little tight at first... but handles fine.

wjtstudios
07-06-2019, 12:12 AM
ProSteers Installed, Death Wobble Gone. Feels like new again. [emoji1417]

330249

Damn, you knocked that out. Congrats


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 Jeep Scrambler

TrailHunter
07-06-2019, 12:20 AM
Damn, you knocked that out. Congrats


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 Jeep Scrambler

Thanks! I had the day off... wanted that shit done! Lol

wjtstudios
07-06-2019, 12:34 AM
Thanks! I had the day off... wanted that shit done! Lol

The right tools and experience go a long way


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 Jeep Scrambler

TrailHunter
07-06-2019, 12:36 AM
The right tools and experience go a long way


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 Jeep Scrambler

Probably the best tool investment Iíve ever made a few years ago... the Snap on Ball Joint kit.... makes it effortless.

330253

HighwayTrout
07-06-2019, 12:59 AM
Tottaly. [emoji106][emoji106]BJP1
Everyone that says how much of a pain ball joints are are using a press that is flexing causing the bj to bind.

WJCO
07-06-2019, 01:06 AM
ProSteers Installed, Death Wobble Gone. Feels like new again. [emoji1417]

330249

Nice :thumb:

TrailHunter
07-06-2019, 01:06 AM
Tottaly. [emoji106][emoji106]BJP1
Everyone that says how much of a pain ball joints are are using a press that is flexing causing the bj to bind.

^^ This. 100%.... Not only that... all the adapters snap in place making set up and alignment a piece of cake.

A.J.
07-06-2019, 01:14 AM
Best ball joint press there is IMO works really good for u joints also.


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red84cj7
08-05-2019, 07:07 PM
I've been reading and hearing about death wobble for years but I have never personally experienced it until this morning on the way to work. That shit is nasty!

I removed a dropped pitman arm and installed a Synergy drag link flip about a week and a half ago. No issues there. I have read that if the steering is set up properly, a steering stabilizer is not necessary so yesterday I removed the dual stabilizer set up that was on it because I plan to add Synergy's tie rod this weekend and wanted to see if I could get away without a stabilizer. I drove it for a bit afterwards including through town, intentionally hitting bumps and holes. There was some slight wobble through the steering wheel but nothing too bad. I even got up to highway speeds and crossed some railroad tracks at speed, still no issues. Then this morning on the way to work, at maybe 35mph, it just went nuts! I guess I'll be putting the dual stabilizer back on tonight and spring for the stabilizer brackets from Synergy along with a new stabilizer.

I just can't believe how violent DW is. It reminds me of the scene in The Hangover when Mr. Chow jumps out of the trunk of the car and starts whooping ass and afterwards they say, "He's so MEAN!" DW is so MEAN!

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WJCO
08-05-2019, 07:10 PM
I've been reading and hearing about death wobble for years but I have never personally experienced it until this morning on the way to work. That shit is nasty!

I removed a dropped pitman arm and installed a Synergy drag link flip about a week and a half ago. No issues there. I have read that if the steering is set up properly, a steering stabilizer is not necessary so yesterday I removed the dual stabilizer set up that was on it because I plan to add Synergy's tie rod this weekend and wanted to see if I could get away without a stabilizer. I drove it for a bit afterwards including through town, intentionally hitting bumps and holes. There was some slight wobble through the steering wheel but nothing too bad. I even got up to highway speeds and crossed some railroad tracks at speed, still no issues. Then this morning on the way to work, at maybe 35mph, it just went nuts! I guess I'll be putting the dual stabilizer back on tonight and spring for the stabilizer brackets from Synergy along with a new stabilizer.

I just can't believe how violent DW is. It reminds me of the scene in The Hangover when Mr. Chow jumps out of the trunk of the car and starts whooping ass and afterwards they say, "He's so MEAN!" DW is so MEAN!

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I moved your post here and highly suggest reading this thread. Whatever is causing your death wobble, your stabilizer is HIDING it. You should fix whatever is causing it rather just re-installing the stabilizer to hide the symptom.

red84cj7
08-05-2019, 09:35 PM
I moved your post here and highly suggest reading this thread. Whatever is causing your death wobble, your stabilizer is HIDING it. You should fix whatever is causing it rather just re-installing the stabilizer to hide the symptom.Educational and enlightening reading. Thank you.

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jesse3638
08-05-2019, 09:48 PM
If everything is tight check ball joints. That's what was causing mine. Once I swapped them out, good to go. I realized at that point they had been worn out for a long time...haha.

USMC Wrangler
08-05-2019, 11:40 PM
Although my wobble wasnít bad yet, I did replace my front trackbar because the bushings were shot at 80,000 miles. It resolved my issue.

https://youtu.be/srXVswE9IfU

red84cj7
08-06-2019, 02:11 AM
Is this axial movement too much? Pry bar under the tire, lifting straight up. Not getting any radial movement by grabbing at 6 and 12, but with the axial I can hear the clunking as the knuckle lifts and lowers on the ball joint. Slightly more pronounced on the driver's side than passenger but visible movement on both sides for sure.

https://youtu.be/5foJ5V52w3Q

https://youtu.be/YNA339ukZBo

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USMC Wrangler
08-06-2019, 02:13 AM
Is this axial movement too much? Pry bar under the tire, lifting straight up. Not getting any radial movement by grabbing at 6 and 12, but with the axial I can hear the clunking as the knuckle lifts and lowers on the ball joint. Slightly more pronounced on the driver's side than passenger but visible movement on both sides for sure.

https://youtu.be/5foJ5V52w3Q

https://youtu.be/YNA339ukZBo

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Yep. Those are done.

red84cj7
08-06-2019, 02:43 AM
Thank you.
Yep. Those are done.

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red84cj7
08-06-2019, 02:45 AM
How about track bar bushings? Frame side seems shot for sure.

https://youtu.be/qbt7039bp0U

https://youtu.be/DPxZPTpISRI

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USMC Wrangler
08-06-2019, 02:53 AM
How about track bar bushings? Frame side seems shot for sure.

https://youtu.be/qbt7039bp0U

https://youtu.be/DPxZPTpISRI

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Yep. Done as well.

red84cj7
08-06-2019, 03:25 AM
My CFO is NOT gonna be happy with me.
Yep. Done as well.

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USMC Wrangler
08-06-2019, 03:34 AM
My CFO is NOT gonna be happy with me.

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Ha ha! I know the feeling.

I just installed this OE style replacement. The bushings appear to be beefier and canít really beat the price.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Automotive-52059982AD-CAS52059982AD-FRONT-TRACK-BAR-LHD/193414423

As far as ball joints, I went Dynatrac. Not the cheapest, but give Exodus Jeeps a look for those.

Swift_Rubi
08-09-2019, 03:45 PM
2014 JKUR
37x12.5r17 cooper stt pro
Battleborn gatekeepers
3.5Ē? Rockkrawler Spingarn
Teraflex adjustable CAs all around
bolstering shocks
Synergy tie rod and drag link flip
Teraflex monster track bar
Tim Ken wheel bearings.
Mood ball joints
Redneck ram hydro assist

Ok so Iíve been fighting off DW for years. Comes and goes as I upgrade. Well as you can see everything is upgraded. Only thing to note is that the CAs I got used so could potentially be a little worn out

Been wheeling twice in a couple weeks and now itís damn near undriveable. Typically it would happen between 40-45. Now itís happening between 40-55 and I even got it going 80 today on the highway. That was not fun

Just looking for anyone with some input on what could be wrong. Everything seems tight and right. Im going for another alignment tomorrow morning. Iím just at a loss at what could be making it this bad.

Any help is great appreciated. Thanks in advance

Kyle




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Swift_Rubi
08-09-2019, 03:48 PM
Holy auto correct.
Moog balljoints.
Rockrawler coils
Bilstein shocks
Timken bearings.

Another thing to note. 10 ounces beads per tire


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WJCO
08-09-2019, 03:59 PM
2014 JKUR
37x12.5r17 cooper stt pro
Battleborn gatekeepers
3.5Ē? Rockkrawler Spingarn
Teraflex adjustable CAs all around
bolstering shocks
Synergy tie rod and drag link flip
Teraflex monster track bar
Tim Ken wheel bearings.
Mood ball joints
Redneck ram hydro assist

Ok so Iíve been fighting off DW for years. Comes and goes as I upgrade. Well as you can see everything is upgraded. Only thing to note is that the CAs I got used so could potentially be a little worn out

Been wheeling twice in a couple weeks and now itís damn near undriveable. Typically it would happen between 40-45. Now itís happening between 40-55 and I even got it going 80 today on the highway. That was not fun

Just looking for anyone with some input on what could be wrong. Everything seems tight and right. Im going for another alignment tomorrow morning. Iím just at a loss at what could be making it this bad.

Any help is great appreciated. Thanks in advance

Kyle




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Merged your post here. Lots of good info. Have you checked all of the bolt torques yourself? Especially the track bar? Also, have you had someone move the steering wheel back and forth while you look for any play in the steering? What track bar bracket are you running and is it bolted on or welded on?

Swift_Rubi
08-09-2019, 04:05 PM
Merged your post here. Lots of good info. Have you checked all of the bolt torques yourself? Especially the track bar? Also, have you had someone move the steering wheel back and forth while you look for any play in the steering? What track bar bracket are you running and is it bolted on or welded on?

Yes I just checked everything very recently. Checked torque on the track bar numerous times. Itís a bolt on track bar bracket on the axle tube (synergy)


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WJCO
08-09-2019, 04:09 PM
Itís a bolt on track bar bracket on the axle tube (synergy)


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Have you had someone turn the steering wheel while you watch that bracket and bolts to make sure it's not moving?

red84cj7
08-09-2019, 05:47 PM
Aside from properly torqued bolts, check bushings too.
Have you had someone turn the steering wheel while you watch that bracket and bolts to make sure it's not moving?

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DESH
08-13-2019, 01:10 AM
Cause of Jeep Wrangler 'death wobble' found, automaker says, promising free fix

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/jeep-wrangler-death-wobble-fix

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.

Nice article on root cause of death wobble. Fact or fiction?


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Lojo
08-13-2019, 03:54 AM
Cause of Jeep Wrangler 'death wobble' found, automaker says, promising free fix

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/jeep-wrangler-death-wobble-fix

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.

Nice article on root cause of death wobble. Fact or fiction?


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Hmmmmmm seems questionable.


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fiend
08-13-2019, 05:01 AM
Last week I wheeled Rubicon and then Fordyce. A pretty tough week for the Jeep. After those two, I started experiencing DW, in the usual situation (35-40 mph, going straight over rough road, expansion joints, train tracks, etc.). I also got it sometimes while braking. Track bar bolts tight. Ball joints and unit bearings show no excessive movement. I did a five tire rotation and low and behold, almost all the DW was gone. Still feel it starting once in a while, mostly while braking. Bottom line, it seems there can be a number of disparate causes of DW.


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danford.lau
08-13-2019, 05:47 AM
Last week I wheeled Rubicon and then Fordyce. A pretty tough week for the Jeep. After those two, I started experiencing DW, in the usual situation (35-40 mph, going straight over rough road, expansion joints, train tracks, etc.). I also got it sometimes while braking. Track bar bolts tight. Ball joints and unit bearings show no excessive movement. I did a five tire rotation and low and behold, almost all the DW was gone. Still feel it starting once in a while, mostly while braking. Bottom line, it seems there can be a number of disparate causes of DW.


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Dang . Hate not being able to pin it down .


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Edwrds
08-13-2019, 02:08 PM
Ha ha! I know the feeling.

I just installed this OE style replacement. The bushings appear to be beefier and canít really beat the price.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crown-Automotive-52059982AD-CAS52059982AD-FRONT-TRACK-BAR-LHD/193414423

As far as ball joints, I went Dynatrac. Not the cheapest, but give Exodus Jeeps a look for those.

You know if that fits a 2016



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USMC Wrangler
08-13-2019, 03:39 PM
You know if that fits a 2016



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Crown says it does...

https://www.crownautomotive.net/Track-Bar-Front/52059982AD.html