Crazy starting issue

kd725 · Jun 20, 2016

Hi all, first post but I did search. Purchased a 12 Rubicom with 40k about 2 months ago. A few weeks back I drove 3 hours to see my son play ball. Parked the jeep, came back 2 hours later and it would only click once, wouldn't start. Several attempts were made to jump start no avail. Decided to call roadside assistance......5 or 6 hours go by with many many many attempts to start in between when roadside shows up and sure enough she started right up without him touching it. He checked the battery while he was there but basically thought I was a nut. Side note if I held the key in the run position it would click every 2 seconds but the radio clock resets every time.

Drove everyday with a 1 hour and 1 1/2 hour trip no issues.

Until today I drove 3 hours up parked it tried to leave hour later and.....click....pulled all relays....check battery connections tried it with car in neutral and in gear clutch in,out sideways etc. rocked back and forth etc etc key is being recognized in the ignition...borrow d my ex wife's car and went about my day with my son, again about 5 hours go by since it was parked and vroom it started right up. Drove 3 hours home.

Concern is that dealer won't be able to replicate the issue since it seems to only happen when driven 3 hours .....ideas??

WJCO · Jun 20, 2016

kd725 said:
Hi all, first post but I did search. Purchased a 12 Rubicom with 40k about 2 months ago. A few weeks back I drove 3 hours to see my son play ball. Parked the jeep, came back 2 hours later and it would only click once, wouldn't start. Several attempts were made to jump start no avail. Decided to call roadside assistance......5 or 6 hours go by with many many many attempts to start in between when roadside shows up and sure enough she started right up without him touching it. He checked the battery while he was there but basically thought I was a nut. Side note if I held the key in the run position it would click every 2 seconds but the radio clock resets every time.

Drove everyday with a 1 hour and 1 1/2 hour trip no issues.

Until today I drove 3 hours up parked it tried to leave hour later and.....click....pulled all relays....check battery connections tried it with car in neutral and in gear clutch in,out sideways etc. rocked back and forth etc etc key is being recognized in the ignition...borrow d my ex wife's car and went about my day with my son, again about 5 hours go by since it was parked and vroom it started right up. Drove 3 hours home.

Concern is that dealer won't be able to replicate the issue since it seems to only happen when driven 3 hours .....ideas??

Next time it does it, see if headlights work. This isn't the most accurate test, but if they do work, there's a good chance your battery is OK. You could also have a parts store test the battery. It sounds to me like a starter issue personally. Starter motors can cause intermittent issues. If it acts up again, tap on the starter with a hammer. This can free up a sticking motor sometimes.

tdougherty81 · Jun 20, 2016

kd725 said:
Hi all, first post but I did search. Purchased a 12 Rubicom with 40k about 2 months ago. A few weeks back I drove 3 hours to see my son play ball. Parked the jeep, came back 2 hours later and it would only click once, wouldn't start. Several attempts were made to jump start no avail. Decided to call roadside assistance......5 or 6 hours go by with many many many attempts to start in between when roadside shows up and sure enough she started right up without him touching it. He checked the battery while he was there but basically thought I was a nut. Side note if I held the key in the run position it would click every 2 seconds but the radio clock resets every time.

Drove everyday with a 1 hour and 1 1/2 hour trip no issues.

Until today I drove 3 hours up parked it tried to leave hour later and.....click....pulled all relays....check battery connections tried it with car in neutral and in gear clutch in,out sideways etc. rocked back and forth etc etc key is being recognized in the ignition...borrow d my ex wife's car and went about my day with my son, again about 5 hours go by since it was parked and vroom it started right up. Drove 3 hours home.

Concern is that dealer won't be able to replicate the issue since it seems to only happen when driven 3 hours .....ideas??

I have this issue every once in awhile. I put it in neutral and it starts right up. Maybe something with a parking position sensor.

frenchjk · Jun 20, 2016

You have a key problem. Try with your spare to confirm. If so have a new key made by your dealer. Happened to me last week.

mo0s3 · Jun 20, 2016

Yeah the Key may be the issue, mine has done it once but only briefly

Frydaddy · Jun 20, 2016

You have a key problem. Try with your spare to confirm. If so have a new key made by your dealer. Happened to me last week.

He already said the key is recognized. Besides, with an un-chipped key, it will start successfully, then turn off a few seconds later.

I have this issue every once in awhile. I put it in neutral and it starts right up. Maybe something with a parking position sensor.

The neutral safety switch on automatics sometimes gets a little corrosion on it and moving the shifter will help, but hes hinting that its a stick shift.

If the radio clock keeps resetting, i would suspect a major electrical short in the system to lose voltage like that. Where is the starter solenoid on those engines? Has the starter seen any water?

Next time it does it, see if headlights work. This isn't the most accurate test, but if they do work, there's a good chance your battery is OK. You could also have a parts store test the battery. It sounds to me like a starter issue personally. Starter motors can cause intermittent issues. If it acts up again, tap on the starter with a hammer. This can free up a sticking motor sometimes.

This can help confirm the electrical short theory, And I've never done the starter tap trick, but it has happened before.

jeeeep · Jun 20, 2016

sounds more like the crankshaft position sensor.
it does everything you've described when it's faulty.
east to replace and around $15

frenchjk · Jun 21, 2016

Frydaddy said:
He already said the key is recognized. Besides, with an un-chipped key, it will start successfully, then turn off a few seconds later.

The neutral safety switch on automatics sometimes gets a little corrosion on it and moving the shifter will help, but hes hinting that its a stick shift.

If the radio clock keeps resetting, i would suspect a major electrical short in the system to lose voltage like that. Where is the starter solenoid on those engines? Has the starter seen any water?

This can help confirm the electrical short theory, And I've never done the starter tap trick, but it has happened before.

when I had my problem, the key with a problem was a fluctuating problem -was able to drive to the dealership- then stalled again (lucky). Would start run and stall or would not even start at all. At first I also thought I had an electrical short or something but turned out it was the key after all........(also is a manual and did have a reported sensor problem on the stick that solved itself?! go figure.)

kd725 · Jun 22, 2016

Thank you everyone for your responses! For future thread readers, Dealer just called and they are replacing the starter and pigtail.

WJCO · Jun 22, 2016

kd725 said:
Thank you everyone for your responses! For future thread readers, Dealer just called and they are replacing the starter and pigtail.

Good to hear. Hope it gets fixed.

kd725 · Jul 9, 2016

Well I guess the dealer didn't fix it by replacing the starter/pigtail. it didn't start again the other night after a short ride but very hot day. Parked it at 5pm went to leave at 10pm and click....I tried to mess with it for an hour but got fed up and went home. Started right up the next morning...getting really tired of this. It is a 6 speed so its not the neutral switch...I also tried using the ground jumper cable from battery to body and that didn't work (read somewhere about bad ground) Battery is good and I tried both keys

frenchjk · Jul 10, 2016

kd725 said:
Well I guess the dealer didn't fix it by replacing the starter/pigtail. it didn't start again the other night after a short ride but very hot day. Parked it at 5pm went to leave at 10pm and click....I tried to mess with it for an hour but got fed up and went home. Started right up the next morning...getting really tired of this. It is a 6 speed so its not the neutral switch...I also tried using the ground jumper cable from battery to body and that didn't work (read somewhere about bad ground) Battery is good and I tried both keys

There is a switch on the manual....might be useful to run a test on that. Take it to a stealership to have the keys checked (x2) and the detection module checked. How good is the battery should have at least 12.3 Volts minimum...

Drdiesel1 · Jul 11, 2016

kd725 said:
Well I guess the dealer didn't fix it by replacing the starter/pigtail. it didn't start again the other night after a short ride but very hot day. Parked it at 5pm went to leave at 10pm and click....I tried to mess with it for an hour but got fed up and went home. Started right up the next morning...getting really tired of this. It is a 6 speed so its not the neutral switch...I also tried using the ground jumper cable from battery to body and that didn't work (read somewhere about bad ground) Battery is good and I tried both keys

Did they replace the starter as part of the repair ? If it clicks, it's not a theft system fault, so don't bother with the keys.
It could be the starter relay or high resistance in the circuit. My bet is the starter itself or the relay. They've also had
a lot of problems with the TIPM too. The only way to known would be to monitor the input voltage to the starter solenoid
when the problem happens. You could also monitor the output voltage to the starter motor from the solenoid and verify what is really happening.

I just went thought this on a 2002 C1 Chevy pickup. It came in with the TD DTC, so we fixed the TD system, but the starter
was acting up when it got hot after driving for 30 minutes. Only it would not even click, so I had to monitor the voltage output
from the relay and to the solenoid to verify it was the starter. PITA!
A voltage drop test would be a quick and easy test, but it's best to monitor the system when the fault is present.
That eliminates and doubts of WTF is happening.

frenchjk · Jul 11, 2016

Drdiesel1 said:
Did they replace the starter as part of the repair ? If it clicks, it's not a theft system fault, so don't bother with the keys.
It could be the starter relay or high resistance in the circuit. My bet is the starter itself or the relay. They've also had
a lot of problems with the TIPM too. The only way to known would be to monitor the input voltage to the starter solenoid
when the problem happens. You could also monitor the output voltage to the starter motor from the solenoid and verify what is really happening.

I just went thought this on a 2002 C1 Chevy pickup. It came in with the TD DTC, so we fixed the TD system, but the starter
was acting up when it got hot after driving for 30 minutes. Only it would not even click, so I had to monitor the voltage output
from the relay and to the solenoid to verify it was the starter. PITA!
A voltage drop test would be a quick and easy test, but it's best to monitor the system when the fault is present.
That eliminates and doubts of WTF is happening.

possible but have the theft system checked...I had the exact same syndrome with mine: the theft system kicks in only after 30' or so so the starter can click even start the engine and the whole shebang dies on you as if a fuel cut...or doesn't start at all or clicks and doesn't click any more etc etc etc...(that whats it feels like with the diesel). Dr diesel could also be right........however the only people to contact would be either the dealer or a qualified auto electrician.

kd725 · Jul 13, 2016

Well the dealer is looking at it now, so we will see. Drdiesel they did replace the starter and the pigtail two weeks ago. My biggest concern is that they will not be able to replicate the problem and send it on it's way, leaving me stranded this weekend when I drive to NY. It always starts after 5 or 6 hours but I really don't want to wait for it or be afraid to turn it off.

Drdiesel1 · Jul 14, 2016

kd725 said:
Well the dealer is looking at it now, so we will see. Drdiesel they did replace the starter and the pigtail two weeks ago. My biggest concern is that they will not be able to replicate the problem and send it on it's way, leaving me stranded this weekend when I drive to NY. It always starts after 5 or 6 hours but I really don't want to wait for it or be afraid to turn it off.

Sounds like the TIPM is failing due to under-hood temperatures.

kd725 · Jul 27, 2016

Just a quick follow up, they replaced the TIPM seems to be fixed....so far

Mr.Reacher · Jul 27, 2016

I have an 08 Rubi and I was/am having very close similar issue. I changed the starter and it still occasionally happens. Seems when I make sure the shifter (Automatic) is in park and the key is fully inserted and I push in and turn she starts up no problem. Hasn't happened since me doing this little ritual. [emoji23] however I did notice Drdiesel1 since you mentioned the TIPM failing due to under-hood temp that the other day i drove home from work stuck in traffic in 100 degree weather for over an 1hr got home shut her down for about 1 min and went to restart to leave again and no cigar.

tried it 3 other times and she fired right back up. My temperature gage shows she isn't running hot but when I lift up the hood she's HOT. I have read at least with my year they run HOT but is there any way to help with the TIPM so it doesn't fail?

frenchjk · Jul 28, 2016

Mr.Reacher said:
I have an 08 Rubi and I was/am having very close similar issue. I changed the starter and it still occasionally happens. Seems when I make sure the shifter (Automatic) is in park and the key is fully inserted and I push in and turn she starts up no problem. Hasn't happened since me doing this little ritual. [emoji23] however I did notice Drdiesel1 since you mentioned the TIPM failing due to under-hood temp that the other day i drove home from work stuck in traffic in 100 degree weather for over an 1hr got home shut her down for about 1 min and went to restart to leave again and no cigar. 樂 tried it 3 other times and she fired right back up. My temperature gage shows she isn't running hot but when I lift up the hood she's HOT. I have read at least with my year they run HOT but is there any way to help with the TIPM so it doesn't fail?

Icepack:brows:

Drdiesel1 · Jul 29, 2016

Mr.Reacher said:
I have an 08 Rubi and I was/am having very close similar issue. I changed the starter and it still occasionally happens. Seems when I make sure the shifter (Automatic) is in park and the key is fully inserted and I push in and turn she starts up no problem. Hasn't happened since me doing this little ritual. [emoji23] however I did notice Drdiesel1 since you mentioned the TIPM failing due to under-hood temp that the other day i drove home from work stuck in traffic in 100 degree weather for over an 1hr got home shut her down for about 1 min and went to restart to leave again and no cigar. 樂 tried it 3 other times and she fired right back up. My temperature gage shows she isn't running hot but when I lift up the hood she's HOT. I have read at least with my year they run HOT but is there any way to help with the TIPM so it doesn't fail?

Relocation, but that's not a simple task by any means. The engine produces a lot of heat and it's trapped up under the hood.
The TIPM is located high in the engine bay and heat rises. The TIPM will take a beating over time and the cheap relays will
start to go south. Buying a vented hood might help, but your temp gauge isn't gonna help you monitor the under hood temperature.

The engine block, radiator and exhaust manifolds produce a lot of heat and it causes under hood temps to stay elevated,
especially with high ambient temps.

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