Harsh ride with evo double throwdown suspension?

jeeper52

jeeper52

LOSER
Hey all! Still trying to dial in the dtd suspension on my jeep. I even shipped all the shocks back to king to have the coilovers and bypasses revalved for a softer ride. Got them back installed and it hardly changed a thing. Curious to see what other people are experiencing. King said to raise the ride height by 2" because they think im riding in the bump zone. I have about 4" of exposed shaft at ride height in the front and about 2" in the rear. Overall height of the jeep with 40's is sitting at about 78.5" to the top of the hard top. Trying to keep it as low as possible to maintain stability but yet have a good ride to. Let me know where your jeeps are sitting with the dtd kit. Thanks
 
highoctane

highoctane

Caught the Bug
Where do you have your coilover timing rings set at (how high above the slider at ride height)? What nitrogen pressures are you running? Have you tried adjusting the bypasses at all? What tire pressure do you run?


My coilovers are set about as low as they can go. I think mine is a similar height, just shy of 70". I have a rather firm ride, but mine also has no winch, no spare tire, and has less than 1k miles on it. Not enough to start tweaking things yet. I mounted my GoPro in away that it could film the coilovers in action and my timing rings were low enough that the sliders are hitting them on small bumps, making the spring rate higher. Waiting till I get the winch and tire/tire carrier installed to mess with the settings.
 
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jeeper52

jeeper52

LOSER
highoctane said:
Where do you have your coilover timing rings set at (how high above the slider at ride height)? What nitrogen pressures are you running? Have you tried adjusting the bypasses at all? What tire pressure do you run?


My coilovers are set about as low as they can go. I think mine is a similar height, just shy of 70". I have a rather firm ride, but mine also has no winch, no spare tire, and has less than 1k miles on it. Not enough to start tweaking things yet. I mounted my GoPro in away that it could film the coilovers in action and my timing rings were low enough that the sliders are hitting them on small bumps, making the spring rate higher. Waiting till I get the winch and tire/tire carrier installed to mess with the settings.
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Thanks for the reply octane, timing rings are about 2" above the slider at ride height. Tire pressure is 30psi on toyos, bypasses are wide open on rebound and compression, i think king set the nitrogen pressure to 150psi on everything.
 
NevadaZielmeister

NevadaZielmeister

Caught the Bug
I only have about 1,500 miles on my DTD system and am a total newb as well, so please take this with a grain of salt.

My ride was very harsh until about 1,000 miles into it. Also, after running the Rubicon, it is very nice and soft now. I am running 37 inch tires and normally run 28 psi. I only have 1/2 to 3/4 inch of threads showing above the timing ring, so it is pretty low. When I heard 2 and 4 inches, I wondered if that was right, but maybe so with the use of 40's. I agree with you, I would want the vehicle as low as possible.

The thing that bothers me is that you have compression and rebound dampening set to "wide open". I would want some compression in order to reduce the amount of vibrations and force coming into the vehicle. With the shocks wide open, then everything goes to the spring and the spring then applies force to the frame, end result, you feel a harsh ride. I would set the bypass shocks at half-way, which I believe is 20mm. Then, each adjustment needs to be made by itself. So add compression one turn to the front, then see how it feels. Then after rebound dampening one turn, see how it feels. Mel Wade spent 1,000's of hours doing this and really has a good setup.

Hope this helps.
 
highoctane

highoctane

Caught the Bug
jeeper52 said:
Thanks for the reply octane, timing rings are about 2" above the slider at ride height. Tire pressure is 30psi on toyos, bypasses are wide open on rebound and compression, i think king set the nitrogen pressure to 150psi on everything.
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Nitrogen pressures are where they should be. Have you tried running a lower tire pressure? 30psi might give you slightly better fuel economy, but 26psi seems to be the sweet spot for on road pressure with 40" Nittos. Another option would be to talk with Andrew and Evo Mfg (not to be confused with Drew at Offroad Evolution). The nice thing about the double throwdown system is that your tuning options are nearly infinite.

You also mention that all of the compression and rebound tubes are all the way open. The shortest compression tube on the bypass shock is what acts as your bump stop on the front suspension. If you have it all the way open, it greatly reduces its ability to act as a bump stop. The shock will bottom out on bigger bumps with nothing to slow it down. With all three full open, your bypass shocks are doing practically nothing at this point to control or dampen vertical suspension speed. Your are 100% relying on internal shock valving in the bypass shocks and coilovers.

I'm not an expert at shock tuning though so don't take my word on it. Call Evo Mfg technical support, they are the experts on this suspension since they are the ones who designed it, and have hundreds if not thousands of hours of tuning experience with it. I personally wouldn't make any changes without talking to them.
 
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OverlanderJK

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
It has nothing to do with your coilovers. You need to learn what a triple bypass shock is and what each tube does. You need to adjust your compression and rebound and it'll drive better.
 
ttfhell

ttfhell

New member
OverlanderJK said:
It has nothing to do with your coilovers. You need to learn what a triple bypass shock is and what each tube does. You need to adjust your compression and rebound and it'll drive better.
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What this guy says. 30psi on rigid toyos isn't going to help either.
 
jeeper52

jeeper52

LOSER
highoctane said:
Nitrogen pressures are where they should be. Have you tried running a lower tire pressure? 30psi might give you slightly better fuel economy, but 26psi seems to be the sweet spot for on road pressure with 40" Nittos. Another option would be to talk with Andrew and Evo Mfg (not to be confused with Drew at Offroad Evolution). The nice thing about the double throwdown system is that your tuning options are nearly infinite.

You also mention that all of the compression and rebound tubes are all the way open. The shortest compression tube on the bypass shock is what acts as your bump stop on the front suspension. If you have it all the way open, it greatly reduces its ability to act as a bump stop. The shock will bottom out on bigger bumps with nothing to slow it down. With all three full open, your bypass shocks are doing practically nothing at this point to control or dampen vertical suspension speed. Your are 100% relying on internal shock valving in the bypass shocks and coilovers.

I'm not an expert at shock tuning though so don't take my word on it. Call Evo Mfg technical support, they are the experts on this suspension since they are the ones who designed it, and have hundreds if not thousands of hours of tuning experience with it. I personally wouldn't make any changes without talking to them.
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Ok, i will drop the tire pressure down to 25psi and run the rebound and compression tubed back to where they were at about half way and see what happens.
 
jeeper52

jeeper52

LOSER
For all you guys running the double throwdown how many inches of shaft are showing on the front bypasses? Maybe i need to raise the ride height?
 
mackey

mackey

Member
OverlanderJK said:
It has nothing to do with your coilovers. You need to learn what a triple bypass shock is and what each tube does. You need to adjust your compression and rebound and it'll drive better.
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Just curious why you say the coilovers have nothing to do with it? The timing ring location on the front coilover can greatly affect your ride quality. Mine was raised only 1/2 inch. I felt every bump big time on the road. King recommended it should be raised 4-5 inches and said it would definitely soften the ride when going over speed bumps, etc. I raised it and definitely noticed a difference.
 
SDG

SDG

Caught the Bug
mackey said:
Just curious why you say the coilovers have nothing to do with it? The timing ring location on the front coilover can greatly affect your ride quality. Mine was raised only 1/2 inch. I felt every bump big time on the road. King recommended it should be raised 4-5 inches and said it would definitely soften the ride when going over speed bumps, etc. I raised it and definitely noticed a difference.
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Because if the bypasses are all screwed up, you will pretty much negate any setting on the coilover.

Think of the front shock on a mountain bike. Usually have 3 settings... lockout, trail, and downhill. If bypass is set to super dampen any movement it will ride like utter shit (lockout) regardless of timing ring settings etc, all the coilover will do is set ride height, open them up way too much and all the ride is put on the springs as they wont dampen shit and its super sloppy... sweet spot and they ride great. The 2 have to work together.
 
mackey

mackey

Member
SDG said:
Because if the bypasses are all screwed up, you will pretty much negate any setting on the coilover.

Think of the front shock on a mountain bike. Usually have 3 settings... lockout, trail, and downhill. If bypass is set to super dampen any movement it will ride like utter shit (lockout) regardless of timing ring settings etc, all the coilover will do is set ride height, open them up way too much and all the ride is put on the springs as they wont dampen shit and its super sloppy... sweet spot and they ride great. The 2 have to work together.
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I totally agree everything has to be tuned properly in order to make it work as intended. If the bypasses are dialed in but your timing ring is too low, you will still have a rough ride in the front of your Jeep. There is a lot to the DTD to learn to get the ride quality and performance it is capable of. However I would hate to tell someone the coilovers have nothing to do with their ride quality when they actually do. I would suggest anyone with issues call King as they have a fantastic customer service department with people who specialize in shock and coilover tuning.

When I called King and told them the front of my Jeep was super stiff and I felt every bump, the first thing they asked was where my timing rings were located. They recommended I adjust (raise) the timing rings before I attempt to tune the bypasses myself. King also has different locations in CA where you can go and have them tune your shocks and coilovers to your liking.
 
ttfhell

ttfhell

New member
mackey said:
I totally agree everything has to be tuned properly in order to make it work as intended. If the bypasses are dialed in but your timing ring is too low, you will still have a rough ride in the front of your Jeep. There is a lot to the DTD to learn to get the ride quality and performance it is capable of. However I would hate to tell someone the coilovers have nothing to do with their ride quality when they actually do. I would suggest anyone with issues call King as they have a fantastic customer service department with people who specialize in shock and coilover tuning.

When I called King and told them the front of my Jeep was super stiff and I felt every bump, the first thing they asked was where my timing rings were located. They recommended I adjust (raise) the timing rings before I attempt to tune the bypasses myself. King also has different locations in CA where you can go and have them tune your shocks and coilovers to your liking.
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Where are their other locations in California besides Garden Grove? Do they tune it on the street or do they have a dirt track at each of these locations? Can't see them doing a bunch off road shock tuning on the asphalt but then again I only thought they had the Garden Grove location. I've seen them do shock tuning at races for King users though.

I also think if you spent the coin on a DTD then had it tuned for the pavement you spent your money poorly lol.
 
mackey

mackey

Member
ttfhell said:
Where are their other locations in California besides Garden Grove? Do they tune it on the street or do they have a dirt track at each of these locations? Can't see them doing a bunch off road shock tuning on the asphalt but then again I only thought they had the Garden Grove location. I've seen them do shock tuning at races for King users though.

I also think if you spent the coin on a DTD then had it tuned for the pavement you spent your money poorly lol.
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Call King and they will give you the dates and locations. If I did not live so far away, I'd definitely go. They said all of the testing locations are off road. They have a selected course / dirt road they use for the testing and tuning which has whoops, ruts and bumps. King also stated they are usually at all the Ultra 4 races offering tuning at the race locations. They were extremely helpful when I called. There is a fee to have them tune your rig. If you can afford the DTD, I hope you can afford the $300 to have it professionally tuned by King 👍👍👍
 
highoctane

highoctane

Caught the Bug
Raising the timing rings made mine ride smoother. Like I mentioned, with the GoPro I could see the sliders hitting the timing rings on small bumps, raised them to about 3 1/2" above the slider. Made the ride much better. DTD has 250lb upper and lower springs, making the overall spring rate 125lb. Every time the slider hits the timing ring the spring rate will double from the 125lb overall rate, to the 250lb rate of the lower spring. If you are hitting the timing rings on street driving, that is sure to give you a rough ride. On the bypass tubes, adjusting the compression tubes open = more oil flow though the bypass tube (softer ride/less compression resistance) and running them in = less oil flow through the bypass tube and a firmer ride/more compression resistance.
 
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utiadam

utiadam

LOSER
Every jeep is going to be different in the settings and where the timing rings should be. I set my timing rings about .5" more than the coil bind height of my top springs. By doing this my jeep always rides on the softer springs on the road until I hit a big dip or when flexing. It is possible to have your timing rings too low and when you flex out the suspension you will make the lower spring go coil bind. Once they go coil bind they lose their rated weight capability and need to be replaced. I ruined my stock king springs by doing that and had to replace all 8 springs.
 
Irish JK

Irish JK

Caught the Bug
What size bypasses did you go with? That can certainly make a difference in the ride. I run my 40" Toyos at about 23-24 around town and 26-28 highway.

Someone mentioned that with the bypass tubes all the way backed out there is no more compression or rebound in the bypass which is not true. Also a lot of talk about timing rings.....

Is your ride crappy slow speed, high speed?
 
jeeper52

jeeper52

LOSER
Irish JK said:
What size bypasses did you go with? That can certainly make a difference in the ride. I run my 40" Toyos at about 23-24 around town and 26-28 highway.

Someone mentioned that with the bypass tubes all the way backed out there is no more compression or rebound in the bypass which is not true. Also a lot of talk about timing rings.....

Is your ride crappy slow speed, high speed?
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I have 2.5" bypasses front and rear. Its mainly higher speeds. When you hit a pot hole which are every couple miles here in Colorado it jars the hell out of you especially in the rear.
 
jeeper52

jeeper52

LOSER
I still would like to see where other guys are at in ride height and how much uptravel they are running. Like i said earlier i have about 4" up travel in the front and about 2" in the rear. Seems a little low but maybe not?
 
Irish JK

Irish JK

Caught the Bug
jeeper52 said:
I have 2.5" bypasses front and rear. Its mainly higher speeds. When you hit a pot hole which are every couple miles here in Colorado it jars the hell out of you especially in the rear.
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So are you hitting/blowing through the bump stops? If so you need to add some compression (and some rebound) back into the bypasses. If it's just small chatter harshness try backing the tire pressures down.
 
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