77 cj-7

hirschdalejeep

hirschdalejeep

New member
Hey guys , new to the jeep world and trying to learn.Trying to make my cj 7 to be really nice ride on the street and do well off road . Has a rough country 4" on it now with 33's and its bad everywhere so I was reading up on the yj spring over with stock springs all around , what do you think , or something better? I do drive down the hwy all the time so it must drive well , (drive's good now just to stiff). Thanks
 
Draconianwinter

Draconianwinter

New member
I have heard some say it is a very good ride with the conversion and some say it's not. First thing I would do is get rid of that lift kit, and change it out with an OME lift kit. I know rocky road carrier their lifts for the cj models as well as a cj to yj spring conversion kit. That's who I also got my shackles from. Down side to them is it takes for damn ever to get the parts in so keep that in mind.

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RockyJk

RockyJk

Active Member
Pretty sure the YJ springs push the axle back like an inch or two and going spring over axle is like a 4" lift if I remember correctly so you might have to factor in new front and rear drive shafts

Edit: you already have a 4" lift probably won't need the driveshafts

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Draconianwinter

Draconianwinter

New member
RockyJk said:
Pretty sure the YJ springs push the axle back like an inch or two and going spring over axle is like a 4" lift if I remember correctly so you might have to factor in new front and rear drive shafts

Edit: you already have a 4" lift probably won't need the driveshafts

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Click to expand...
You are correct the yj spins will move the axles 1 inch further out. And doing the spring over is supposedly the same as a 4 inch lift. The I had forgotten the axles would move since I hadn't looked at doing this in good while now. The spring over does give lift, but I don't ever recommend it. I was researching that idea a few years ago and saw many people having issues with that type of set up. Usually involving springs being damaged. In every case I saw a reply as to why it was always the same. The springs were not designed to be over the axles and therefore the torque on from the axles wasn't being transferred properly to the springs or something like that.

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hirschdalejeep

hirschdalejeep

New member
So if I stay spring under omu only has a 2.5" lift springs I think. I would like to stay at 4", how about skyjacker or rubicon express springs ? and stay under.
 
Draconianwinter

Draconianwinter

New member
hirschdalejeep said:
So if I stay spring under omu only has a 2.5" lift springs I think. I would like to stay at 4", how about skyjacker or rubicon express springs ? and stay under.
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Honestly it will ultimately depend on what you plan to do with it. Both of those are Chinese made. Personally if it were me I would go with bds for the lift springs. Don't get their socks though. As for the spring over also keep in mind that like anything it can be very subjective. Idk how hard they were wheeling or if they just didn't know what they were doing. I just know several issues worth the spends being twisted around due to the spring over. That said just as many or more have not ever had an issue. But without knowing what brand of springs they used is hard to say what the ultimate cause of failure was. Now personally I am pretty damn picky so I have never been one to use inferior products on my old jeeps I had. But the bds isn't going to be cheap either and not sure what your budget is. But if want to keep your costs down I would say get their leaf springs in the hight you want and only deal with it once. They make damn good springs. Had them on my first cj7 was going to lift my last cj7 but never needed too do so our it would have had their springs as well. Just like I said don't get their shocks. I had them at first and got rid of them a couple weeks after I put the lift on and went with ome I think. Been years ago lol. One thing I will tell you is no matter who you go with make damn sure they are using a full military wrap on the springs.
Now what you can also do and I would personally advise it is get heavy duty shackle hangers and shackles the gamers will give about .75" of lift get a 2" longer than stock shackles something nice and beefy that will give you another 1 inch. That's 1.75 inches already add to that a 2 and you will be just below the 4 inch mark. But if you plan to use it definitely get better shackles and hangers that can take the stress. I have broken hangers and I can promise you it sucks.

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Draconianwinter

Draconianwinter

New member
Cheek out rocky road. That was where I got my hangers and shackles from. They are well made, and i never broke one of theirs. The down side to them is they take their sweet ass time getting things to you.

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holliewood61

holliewood61

New member
First off, ditch the rough country springs. The 4" springs are exactly the same as their 2.5" springs, just arched more, so im sure your shackle angles are horrible. You may look into the superlift soft ride springs. The ome springs are great, but spendy. As far as the yj conversion goes, i would recommend keeping it sua. The benefit of the yj conversion is the wider front springs, and you dont have to go soa to take advantage of that. Going soa isnt a simple task, and it opens a giant can of worms if not fully researched, and fully committed to doing it correctly. Do not, and i repeat do not buy the rocky road bolt on soa kit. It is junk, literally not worth the box they ship it in. If you step down to 2.5" springs. With your tire size, and intended use you will be very happy. 4" of lift, with narrow trac axles is just a poor combination. As far as steering goes. Flipping the tie rod and drag link to the top of the knuckles with a flip kit from goferit and a stock pitman arm will yeild great results. Adding a steering box brace from m.o.r.e. will really stiffen up the steering by reducing frame deflection caused by the larger tires. Adding a 1 piece steering box mount would help immensely as well. Other than that, make sure your tie rod and drag link ends are in good shape, and that your shackle bolts arent over tightened and youll be good to go.

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Breer

Breer

Caught the Bug
holliewood61 said:
First off, ditch the rough country springs. The 4" springs are exactly the same as their 2.5" springs, just arched more, so im sure your shackle angles are horrible. You may look into the superlift soft ride springs. The ome springs are great, but spendy. As far as the yj conversion goes, i would recommend keeping it sua. The benefit of the yj conversion is the wider front springs, and you dont have to go soa to take advantage of that. Going soa isnt a simple task, and it opens a giant can of worms if not fully researched, and fully committed to doing it correctly. Do not, and i repeat do not buy the rocky road bolt on soa kit. It is junk, literally not worth the box they ship it in. If you step down to 2.5" springs. With your tire size, and intended use you will be very happy. 4" of lift, with narrow trac axles is just a poor combination. As far as steering goes. Flipping the tie rod and drag link to the top of the knuckles with a flip kit from goferit and a stock pitman arm will yeild great results. Adding a steering box brace from m.o.r.e. will really stiffen up the steering by reducing frame deflection caused by the larger tires. Adding a 1 piece steering box mount would help immensely as well. Other than that, make sure your tie rod and drag link ends are in good shape, and that your shackle bolts arent over tightened and youll be good to go.

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x2 on this IMHO. I have the tie rod flip from goferit on my CJ. It's a great product and will definitely help with steering issues. And can't beat the price considering the benefit.

Also agree on SOA, bad stuff. Hard to get right, usually costs more in the long run than a well setup SUA lift. It causes tons of issues and it's a setup most people run on trail rigs that aren't driven on the street much.

Old jeeps are never going to have the best road manners though, doesn't mean something is wrong. Something I have seen help especially with narrow track are wheel spacers. My narrow track fights between ruts in the road, spacers can help with that.


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Draconianwinter

Draconianwinter

New member
Just to make sure no one misunderstood me. The only thing I got from them was the shackles and shackle hangers wich I did put on both my jeeps. Which is why I recommended them from rocky road. I personally wouldn't do a soa from well anyone ever. There are a lot of things manufactures could do better in most cases, but I think they did what was safest in this case with the spring under axle. Oh also never ever do a shackle reverse kit. Seen people do this and claim it gave them better articulation. All I saw it do was cause them to wreck. Just mentioned that incase you met someone who tries to tell you a shackle reversal kit will be a good idea. So two things to avoid. Soa and shackle reversal. And what shackle reversal is ,in case you are not aware, is where they take the shackles from their original mounting and put them at the other end meaning they take them from the front end and rear end and mount them on the inner spring hangers. Very very bad idea.

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hirschdalejeep

hirschdalejeep

New member
Thanks for all the info. guy's , I have been doing leg work online and under the new jeep as well. Turns out it has widetrac axles on it , 4.11 gears , welded tubes and trussed rear ,(amc 20) , and the shackles are gold , about 6" long and look beefy , hangers look stock. The steering , draglink goes to the passenger side knuckel on top and the tie rod sits on top as well. Research tells me that the trans , (t-18) and the case ,(dana 20) are out of a j-10 pickup. The draglink and tie rod look tiny so I think I need to do something there. Anyway so no shackle reverse and it sounds like I need to stay spring under , (I like where it sits right now anyway). So off to springs for the best ride , on and off road. I was thinking of maybe getting as low as spring rate as possible and then running a big swaybar with disconnect's for good street manner's , and a sterring box brace , like you guys said. Bds springs sound good (usa made) , I will look into those and look into yj springs , still under axle. I am not freaking out on budget , just want a safe , nice driving cj that does well off road. Thinking even an ox locker for the rear maybe. Thanks again.
 
Draconianwinter

Draconianwinter

New member
hirschdalejeep said:
Thanks for all the info. guy's , I have been doing leg work online and under the new jeep as well. Turns out it has widetrac axles on it , 4.11 gears , welded tubes and trussed rear ,(amc 20) , and the shackles are gold , about 6" long and look beefy , hangers look stock. The steering , draglink goes to the passenger side knuckel on top and the tie rod sits on top as well. Research tells me that the trans , (t-18) and the case ,(dana 20) are out of a j-10 pickup. The draglink and tie rod look tiny so I think I need to do something there. Anyway so no shackle reverse and it sounds like I need to stay spring under , (I like where it sits right now anyway). So off to springs for the best ride , on and off road. I was thinking of maybe getting as low as spring rate as possible and then running a big swaybar with disconnect's for good street manner's , and a sterring box brace , like you guys said. Bds springs sound good (usa made) , I will look into those and look into yj springs , still under axle. I am not freaking out on budget , just want a safe , nice driving cj that does well off road. Thinking even an ox locker for the rear maybe. Thanks again.
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You're most welcome. Ox makes a great locker had them on my first cj

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Breer

Breer

Caught the Bug
I was doing some head scratching with the narrow trac thing. Cj7's were all wide trac I thought. So at least you have the wider axles starting off.

The AMC 20 can be setup with one piece axles and be plenty strong if your looking to go for bigger tires one day, I would double check that it hasn't been done since it seems a lot of work has been done to it.

The shackles being 6 inches long doesn't seem like a huge shackle lift, I believe stock ones are around 4 inches long and shackles only give you half of the actual lift. So a if it's 2 inches longer than the stock shackles, it will yield 1 inch of total lift for the jeep.


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Draconianwinter

Draconianwinter

New member
Breer said:
I was doing some head scratching with the narrow trac thing. Cj7's were all wide trac I thought. So at least you have the wider axles starting off.

The AMC 20 can be setup with one piece axles and be plenty strong if your looking to go for bigger tires one day, I would double check that it hasn't been done since it seems a lot of work has been done to it.

The shackles being 6 inches long doesn't seem like a huge shackle lift, I believe stock ones are around 4 inches long and shackles only give you half of the actual lift. So a if it's 2 inches longer than the stock shackles, it will yield 1 inch of total lift for the jeep.


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Click to expand...
Not all of them. If I remember the 76 to 81 cj7 were narrow track from the factory. May have been an option fir a wide track, but not sure. In 82 was when it was standard fir the wide track

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hirschdalejeep

hirschdalejeep

New member
The axles are 1 piece and say moser on them. The front end has to be later model because I had to put longer rubber brake lines on , read up on it and I went with stock chevy half ton lines. They said the 70's jeeps you needed 70's chevy lines (7/16) bolts I think , I got them and they were wrong. Went back and got 80's chevy lines ,(metric bolt size) and they fit perfect and like 4" longer for the lift
 
hirschdalejeep

hirschdalejeep

New member
IMG_0191.jpg IMG_0202.jpg IMG_0209.jpg

pictures of the 360 swap , went through the t-18 , welded up the broken bell housing , twin stick , all new mounts , (more) , new headers and more coming !!!!!!!!!!!

:thumb::thumb::thumb:
 
holliewood61

holliewood61

New member
Looking good, if you plan on wheeling it the fender exit headers are a bad idea. I put them on mine, and they take a beating. Ive broken the pipe off the collector several times.

You can see how bent up they are here


Aaand thats a side pipe strapped to the spare tire.


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holliewood61

holliewood61

New member
Learn from me and dont be "that guy" it makes for a long day for you and everyone in your group listening to a v8 coming straight off the header if you break a pipe off

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