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View Full Version : MAKE SURE to be in MANUAL SHIFT when Wheeling in 4LO



wayoflife
04-04-2018, 02:04 AM
While wheeling out in Moab during the recent Easter Jeep Safari, Cindy and I discovered a rather odd if not troubling issue with the JL Wrangler's new 8-speed automatic transmission. Specifically, if you're in 4LO and have your transmission shifted to "D" or drive, you may experience a momentary loss of power while attempting an obstacle that requires a bit of throttle. This can cause you to loose the momentum you were needing and allow you to fall off your line. The first time I saw this happen was on JeepFan's JL and on this obstacle.

https://www.wayalife.com/photos/_data/i/upload/2018/03/31/20180331180348-07713727-me.jpg

I should note that I experienced this problem for myself while attempting a similar obstacle and I won't lie, it kind of spooked me. For a brief moment, it felt like my engine just cut out and for no good reason. Of course, the answer to this problem is to make sure you have your transmission shifted into the manual shift mode or what is also known as 'M-Gate'. Granted, it can be hard to remember at times especially when you're shifting into reverse and then back into drive again but so long as you're in M-Gate, this problem will not occur. Anyway, I know all this may seem obvious to some of you out there but it wasn't for me. Hopefully this information will be helpful to others.

JAGS
04-04-2018, 02:23 AM
Glad you posted this up as Iíve been meaning to go back and ask where you first mentioned it. And it was noted in another thread.

Iíll be honest and say in my JK I am hardly in manual shift mode. Usually I just donít even think about it, it being an automatic. And if I do, itís usually a first gear climb or maybe a geared decline down a large hill use and then back to auto.

All said, I donít honestly know if Iím even doing that right. LOL. Any hint on which gear to use for a particular situation if different than the above???

TrainWreck618
04-04-2018, 02:27 AM
That would definitely throw me off, crazy


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OverlanderJK
04-04-2018, 02:35 AM
Weird for sure. Canít say Iíve ever heard of that before. Thanks for the info!


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Exodus Jeeps
04-04-2018, 02:42 AM
Weird. Honestly before the LS I never messed with the manual shifting on the automatic, but now I do.


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MTG
04-04-2018, 02:50 AM
First to post that the JL isn't a real jeep and this is just another example of it. :crazyeyes:

scrhino
04-04-2018, 05:15 AM
Weird. Honestly before the LS I never messed with the manual shifting on the automatic, but now I do.


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With my LS Iíve had that happen to me so I use manual mode a lot.

Bear_JKU
04-04-2018, 05:22 AM
That would definitely be some major pucker factor depending on the obstacle.


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Coop
04-04-2018, 11:15 AM
My 2015 5 speed will do the same thing, shift from 1st to 2nd on a steep incline. My prep is the same, go to manual shift mode.


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Brute
04-04-2018, 01:24 PM
I use manual shift in 4lo with both the Brute & Jk6 often...especially on the rocks or steep descents, when compression braking is needed...

jeffj
04-04-2018, 02:20 PM
In my JK when Iím in 4lo, from park to drive it is actually in second gear. You have to tap shift it over to go in first. I thought it was something funky with my 2012 but, my 2014 does the same thing. I was wondering if it is that way on all jks


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wjtstudios
04-04-2018, 02:30 PM
Iíve run into that same issue on steep hill climbs in the dunes or on a muddy slope. Scary the first time it happens to you. Since then I will typically have it in 2nd for most or if itís really steep, Iíll preset in first.


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RockingK
04-04-2018, 02:45 PM
Good to know, when your counting on momentum to carry you over that critical break over and it defuels to shift could result in a loop or like ET sliding backwards on steep slick surface.

wayoflife
04-04-2018, 03:15 PM
Glad you posted this up as Iíve been meaning to go back and ask where you first mentioned it. And it was noted in another thread.

Iíll be honest and say in my JK I am hardly in manual shift mode. Usually I just donít even think about it, it being an automatic. And if I do, itís usually a first gear climb or maybe a geared decline down a large hill use and then back to auto.

All said, I donít honestly know if Iím even doing that right. LOL. Any hint on which gear to use for a particular situation if different than the above???

Unlike the JK, when you shift into manual mode, the transmission will default to 2nd gear. If you want to go lower, you have to manually shift it to 1st. That being said, 2nd isn't a bad gear to be bumping up an obstacle like Slide Rock as you kind of need to move through it.


That would definitely throw me off, crazy

It'll not only throw you off, it'll prevent you from clearing a big obstacle. The crazy thing is, you don't even need to be giving a lot of throttle to make this happen.


Weird for sure. Canít say Iíve ever heard of that before. Thanks for the info!

Annoying or maybe even unpleasant is more the word I'd use but at least it can be dealt with and with ease.


Weird. Honestly before the LS I never messed with the manual shifting on the automatic, but now I do.

Up until recently, all my Jeeps have been manuals so the thought of using manual mode is something that I prefer to use. That being said, it's never been something I felt I "needed" to use especially on obstacles that I'm familiar with. Now I know it's necessary.

wayoflife
04-04-2018, 03:26 PM
First to post that the JL isn't a real jeep and this is just another example of it. :crazyeyes:

:cheesy:


With my LS Iíve had that happen to me so I use manual mode a lot.

Really? I can't say that I've ever experienced anything like sudden and complete power loss with my LS in full auto.


That would definitely be some major pucker factor depending on the obstacle.

Believe me, on an obstacle like Slide Rock, it is.


My 2015 5 speed will do the same thing, shift from 1st to 2nd on a steep incline. My prep is the same, go to manual shift mode.

I should note that unlike the JK, the transmission doesn't so much as shift - it just momentarily looses all power. It's like it wants to shift but then doesn't.


I use manual shift in 4lo with both the Brute & Jk6 often...especially on the rocks or steep descents, when compression braking is needed...

LOL!! And that's another rant I'll have to make. As much as I love the new 8-speed auto, it doesn't compression brake with a hill of beans. It just revs up the engine real loud and then lets go. I'm hoping there's a software fix for this in the future.

wayoflife
04-04-2018, 03:29 PM
In my JK when Iím in 4lo, from park to drive it is actually in second gear. You have to tap shift it over to go in first. I thought it was something funky with my 2012 but, my 2014 does the same thing. I was wondering if it is that way on all jks

Yup, 2nd is the default on the JL.


Iíve run into that same issue on steep hill climbs in the dunes or on a muddy slope. Scary the first time it happens to you. Since then I will typically have it in 2nd for most or if itís really steep, Iíll preset in first.

Honestly, I might be okay with the transmission actually shifting into a higher gear but on the JL, you just momentarily loose all power. I'm only "assuming" the problem is a shift issue being that you can mitigate it by putting the transmission into manual.


Good to know, when your counting on momentum to carry you over that critical break over and it defuels to shift could result in a loop or like ET sliding backwards on steep slick surface.

This had happened to both Tony and I. Not a pleasant feeling.

wjtstudios
04-04-2018, 03:38 PM
Yup, 2nd is the default on the JL.



Honestly, I might be okay with the transmission actually shifting into a higher gear but on the JL, you just momentarily loose all power. I'm only "assuming" the problem is a shift issue being that you can mitigate it by putting the transmission into manual.



This had happened to both Tony and I. Not a pleasant feeling.

It actually was the opposite. It would upshift going from 2nd to 3rd causing the rpms to drop and killing your momentum. If it were down shifting Iíd be all set!!


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longarmwj
04-04-2018, 07:00 PM
My WJ, WK2, and JKU all do/have done this. Good info though for those who may not know about it :thumb:

Bingobelle
04-04-2018, 07:31 PM
I use manual shift in 4lo with both the Brute & Jk6 often...especially on the rocks or steep descents, when compression braking is needed...

Iīm not sure if I know what a jk6 is but a brute I guess is a aev conversion of a jku?

Anyway, with the decline assist function in the jk you actually do not have to use the engine compression that is not very great on a petrol engine anyway. I think that there is a function on the decline assist that maybee some do knot know about.

When in 4low and descend assist activated, the speed that the breaks alow the jeep to go down depends on what gear you have choosen. when first gear is selected it goes very slowly and in second a little bit faster and so on. It does not matter what actuall gear the automatic is in but what you have choosen.

I know all this electronic gismoz can be a bit noobish but it actually works really great.

SDG
04-04-2018, 09:56 PM
With my LS Iíve had that happen to me so I use manual mode a lot.
Voldemort flopped his jeep in a hot tub a couple years ago and had it in auto with an LS and it switched gears as they were coming out.

Whoops

Brute
04-04-2018, 10:29 PM
:cheesy:



Really? I can't say that I've ever experienced anything like sudden and complete power loss with my LS in full auto.



Believe me, on an obstacle like Slide Rock, it is.



I should note that unlike the JK, the transmission doesn't so much as shift - it just momentarily looses all power. It's like it wants to shift but then doesn't.



LOL!! And that's another rant I'll have to make. As much as I love the new 8-speed auto, it doesn't compression brake with a hill of beans. It just revs up the engine real loud and then lets go. I'm hoping there's a software fix for this in the future.

Compression braking can be a big deal on a real long steep descent...otherwise brake fade as things get real hot is an issue

Edwrds
04-04-2018, 11:26 PM
If Iím reading this correctly Iíve had something similar happen to me in my 2016 rubicon. I was going up a large sand hill and it just lost power and motor turned off. I was under the impression that it had to do with the traction control.


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ScoobyCarolanNC
04-05-2018, 01:29 AM
I had asked about this in another thread! Iím assuming the computer is miscalculating what is happening & itís more shift happy now w/ 8 gears while the JK would have stuck it out because the next gear was so much taller. Was it like a stall or the torque converter was slipping? Iíve taken mine out once & while it was no moab I just didnít feel like it was in the right gear while in auto.

wayoflife
04-05-2018, 02:53 AM
Compression braking can be a big deal on a real long steep descent...otherwise brake fade as things get real hot is an issue

Oh, I agree. I think that maybe Jeep thinks you should be using the hill assist instead. Of course, that uses the brakes :crazyeyes:


If Iím reading this correctly Iíve had something similar happen to me in my 2016 rubicon. I was going up a large sand hill and it just lost power and motor turned off. I was under the impression that it had to do with the traction control.


It is momentary but during that moment, there is a complete loss of power.


I had asked about this in another thread! Iím assuming the computer is miscalculating what is happening & itís more shift happy now w/ 8 gears while the JK would have stuck it out because the next gear was so much taller. Was it like a stall or the torque converter was slipping? Iíve taken mine out once & while it was no moab I just didnít feel like it was in the right gear while in auto.

I was like a governor kicked in and for a moment, there simply was no power.

BdugJK
04-05-2018, 02:48 PM
Man this was a good thread. Being newer to this I never knew and I will be shift my auto to "manual" mode more often now.

wayoflife
04-05-2018, 02:57 PM
Man this was a good thread. Being newer to this I never knew and I will be shift my auto to "manual" mode more often now.

I should note that I NEVER experienced this on our 2012 JK which has an automatic. That being said, using manual on harder obstacles is a good idea.

jorgelrod
05-01-2018, 10:15 AM
Has there been any new developments?

wayoflife
05-01-2018, 02:59 PM
Has there been any new developments?

I'm not sure Jeep is willing to acknowledge this is a problem. Fortunately, being in manual mode will prevent the power cut out from happening.

JMFK
05-01-2018, 05:09 PM
I'm not sure Jeep is willing to acknowledge this is a problem. Fortunately, being in manual mode will prevent the power cut out from happening.

Glad to know there is an ďissuesĒ with the JL. After reading this my fear of missing out on the JL is gone and you saved me $50k.[emoji51]

Or maybe I will just buy one anyway... It is just money after all. [emoji6]


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Zstairlessone
05-02-2018, 12:28 AM
I'm not sure Jeep is willing to acknowledge this is a problem. Fortunately, being in manual mode will prevent the power cut out from happening.

I noticed that in your latest video. Good catch and check, this will help everyone with an automatic JL


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JAGS
05-02-2018, 02:40 AM
I should note that I NEVER experienced this on our 2012 JK which has an automatic. That being said, using manual on harder obstacles is a good idea.


I'm not sure Jeep is willing to acknowledge this is a problem. Fortunately, being in manual mode will prevent the power cut out from happening.

I can barely remember to listen to my spotter....now I need to remember to be in manual mode, which gear, and to know what is a ďharderĒ obstacle. [emoji51] I realize this isnt a huge deal, but I got an auto for a reason.

Iím not a total noob, but still close and this is something I hope Jeep does acknowledge and maybe even resolve.

wayoflife
05-02-2018, 02:45 PM
I can barely remember to listen to my spotter....now I need to remember to be in manual mode, which gear, and to know what is a ďharderĒ obstacle. [emoji51] I realize this isnt a huge deal, but I got an auto for a reason.

Iím not a total noob, but still close and this is something I hope Jeep does acknowledge and maybe even resolve.

:cheesy: Funny you should say as much but having to remember all this is a lot like wheeling a manual only, the later is a lot easier for me being that it's second nature. Jeep is aware of the problem but whether or not they'll do anything about it is another issue all together.

JAGS
05-02-2018, 04:45 PM
:cheesy: Funny you should say as much but having to remember all this is a lot like wheeling a manual only, the later is a lot easier for me being that it's second nature. Jeep is aware of the problem but whether or not they'll do anything about it is another issue all together.

Iíve never driven a manual as a daily, let alone on the trail. Certainly wonít be second nature for a while, especially since this wasnít needed in my JK. Iíll just need to get used to it quick.

jesse3638
05-02-2018, 04:55 PM
Iíve never driven a manual as a daily, let alone on the trail. Certainly wonít be second nature for a while, especially since this wasnít needed in my JK. Iíll just need to get used to it quick.

Trade you for a week so you can learn..haha. You can choose my JK or my new Sentra. The Sentra will net you and average combined fuel economy of 32-33 mpg..;)

JAGS
05-02-2018, 04:58 PM
Trade you for a week so you can learn..haha. You can choose my JK or my new Sentra. The Sentra will net you and average combined fuel economy of 32-33 mpg..;)

Ha ha. 32-33 [emoji33] thatís great. But weíll see what kind of mileage it gets off road. [emoji23]

jesse3638
05-02-2018, 05:08 PM
Ha ha. 32-33 [emoji33] thatís great. But weíll see what kind of mileage it gets off road. [emoji23]

Smooth dirt roads (NV super highways) I'm sure I can average the same...haha.

Geronimo
05-08-2018, 10:23 PM
I first heard of this shifting issue while watching the Moab videos that Cindy and Eddie made (absolutely excellent by the way). I was wondering if most folks "wheel" in 4LO drive. The only time I'm ever in 4LO drive is if there happens to be a fairly long flat area from A to B then I'm usually back in manual mode. I've just always preferred having that control, and as mentioned it is a second nature thing after while. Have not taken delivery of our JLUR yet (supposed to be this week) but I was thinking I may never have noticed this "anomaly" in 4LO drive.

justin mazzon
05-08-2018, 11:24 PM
Not sure if I'm doing if right but I'm always in 2wd as long as I can then 4hi and then 4lo when I need it. When I was first learning to off road my teacher was always in 4lo on the dirt. I personally thought that was over kill. I have noticed where a lot of people are in 4hi I can still do those sections of trail in 2wd. I do use the manual mode in my JK a lot on the trail. Maybe because this is my first 4x4 with an automatic.

jesse3638
05-08-2018, 11:35 PM
Not sure if I'm doing if right but I'm always in 2wd as long as I can then 4hi and then 4lo when I need it. When I was first learning to off road my teacher was always in 4lo on the dirt. I personally thought that was over kill. I have noticed where a lot of people are in 4hi I can still do those sections of trail in 2wd. I do use the manual mode in my JK a lot on the trail. Maybe because this is my first 4x4 with an automatic.

Sure you can do trails in 2wd that others do in 4hi. Problem is trail damage. A lot of times, not always, you spin the wheels in 2wd where as in 4hi you won't. It gives you better traction and more control with out unnecessarily tearing up the trail . 4lo gives you even more control. Rule of thumb I use is 4hi where I need traction and momentum ie..sand and mud and I use 4lo where I need traction but with more precise control ie..rocks, recovery (self or others).