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View Full Version : Lifted 2012 JK's - Skip the Y-Pipe & Just Get a 1310 Front Driveshaft



wayoflife
04-21-2012, 06:02 PM
I just wanted to post this up as a public service announcement as I get 2012 owners asking me this question all the time. If you lift your 2012 Jeep JK Wrangler more than 2.5", you will have issues with your factory front drive shaft making contact with the exhaust cross over. However, rather than wasting your money on a Y-Pipe kit that can cost upwards of $300, please do yourself a favor, spend the extra $150 and just upgrade your front drive shaft to a 1310 drive shaft like the kind that J.E. Reel or even Coast makes.

So you know, an aftermarket 1310 drive shaft or even 1350 drive shaft will be narrower in diameter, will not have a slip shaft boot and will not make contact with your JK's exhaust cross over as would be the case with a factory drive shaft. This is a shot of a factory drive shaft installed on a 2012 JK with 3.5" of lift and at a full droop...

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=268399

Now, this is a shot of our J.E. Reel 1350 front drive shaft installed on Rubicat with 12" coil overs, no exhaust modifications and at a full droop...

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=276710

As you can see, the shaft is not making any contact with the exhaust cross over and there is plenty of room to spare. Also, on the 2012 JK's, the taller you go, the more of an angle you will have at your output shaft CV joint. At just 3.5" of lift, this angle will be sever enough to cause the CV boot to fail prematurely and so, even if you were to install a Y-Pipe, you would still end up having to replace your front drive shaft sooner than later.

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=268401

Need I say, do yourself a favor, spend just a little more cash and do things right the first time around.

This has been a public service announcement from your WAYALIFE.com Administrator :cool:

zeddjb
04-21-2012, 07:50 PM
Awesome info. I spent about $75.00 re-routing my cross pipe further back toward the cross member armor brace (I needed something fast like hours rather than days). However, like you said, I should have just bought a different drive shaft in the first place.

I would highly recommend your option before mine and in fact, I'm in the process of buying a new drive shaft now.


Thanks for posting this info up!! :thumb:

JKRay
04-21-2012, 08:12 PM
Thanks for the service announcement! Haha but really thanks info was greatly appreciated. :D

piginajeep
04-21-2012, 08:33 PM
Thanks for the post. I've been preaching this from day one. But not a damn person listens...


FYI to anyone running shocks and not coil overs. 27.5" extended length shock is the max you can run with a 1310 driveshaft before hitting the exhaust.

Which is a good length for 3-4" kits.

nacho
04-23-2012, 12:46 PM
My coast drive shaft still hit ever so slightly at full flex. has a small silver ring around it from the paint being worn off. But the stock was horrible.

wayoflife
04-23-2012, 02:02 PM
Thanks for the post. I've been preaching this from day one. But not a damn person listens...


FYI to anyone running shocks and not coil overs. 27.5" extended length shock is the max you can run with a 1310 driveshaft before hitting the exhaust.

Which is a good length for 3-4" kits.

are those numbers from your JK? if so, you have a manual and the t-case sits further back. that number would be greater on an automatic.


My coast drive shaft still hit ever so slightly at full flex. has a small silver ring around it from the paint being worn off. But the stock was horrible.

interesting, you're the second person to say as much. do you have an manunal or auto? also, are you running short arms? we are running long arms and that would change the arc that the axle travels in. either way, slight contact like that is something i could live with.

piginajeep
04-23-2012, 03:07 PM
are those numbers from your JK? if so, you have a manual and the t-case sits further back. that number would be greater on an automatic.



interesting, you're the second person to say as much. do you have an manunal or auto? also, are you running short arms? we are running long arms and that would change the arc that the axle travels in. either way, slight contact like that is something i could live with.

Auto and 6 speed will work with these numbers, both are tight but work. I'll find some photo's....

wayoflife
04-23-2012, 03:10 PM
Auto and 6 speed will work with these numbers, both are tight but work.

well then, i guess the only difference in what we're seeing is based on the fact that we have long arms.

GCM 2
04-23-2012, 03:42 PM
My coast drive shaft still hit ever so slightly at full flex. has a small silver ring around it from the paint being worn off. But the stock was horrible.

Nacho, I know that exhaust tubing has a smooth radius, but just a word (and photo) of caution, beware of the small silver rings where paint has worn off!! Always better to have a little more clearance, than a little less :rock:

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h449/spf2342/JKX/IMG_0512.jpg

wayoflife
04-23-2012, 04:05 PM
Nacho, I know that exhaust tubing has a smooth radius, but just a word (and photo) of caution, beware of the small silver rings where paint has worn off!! Always better to have a little more clearance, than a little less :rock:

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h449/spf2342/JKX/IMG_0512.jpg

whoa! was that your drive shaft?? :clap2:

because of the exhaust cross over on a 2012 having been moved so far forward, clearing it is definitley a challenge. all the spacers and relocation kits are far from optimal solutions, some are quite pricey and, if you're running skids like what evo makes, will cause the cross over to make contact with them. running an aftermarket shaft is so far, the single best solution to the problem i've seen and, it comes with the added benefit of addressing the angle at the output shaft. based on the options available, i might be willing to settle with the "little less" clearance even though it may come with other risks. it's either that or, you'd have to run shorter shocks.

of course, if you're running long arms like us, it doesn't appear to be as much of a problem even with more droop. :cool:

GCM 2
04-23-2012, 04:50 PM
whoa! was that your drive shaft?? :clap2:

because of the exhaust cross over on a 2012 having been moved so far forward, clearing it is definitley a challenge. all the spacers and relocation kits are far from optimal solutions, some are quite pricey and, if you're running skids like what evo makes, will cause the cross over to make contact with them. running an aftermarket shaft is so far, the single best solution to the problem i've seen and, it comes with the added benefit of addressing the angle at the output shaft. based on the options available, i might be willing to settle with the "little less" clearance even though it may come with other risks. it's either that or, you'd have to run shorter shocks.

of course, if you're running long arms like us, it doesn't appear to be as much of a problem even with more droop. :cool:

Sorry, I was answering in the snorkel thread you and I are having fun with :crazyeyes: No that is not my drive shaft, but you do know him though, our jeeps get mistaken all the time, but he runs 42"s and has a sweet LJ ;) I did tow him off the trail though. his damage came from after market full skid plates, one of the more popular systems. My point to Nacho was that, although driveshafts (the main tube portions is what I am addressing, not U-joints, yokes, etc) are incredibly strong, they are only strong until something scores or dents that relatively thin wall/gauge tubing. Think of it like an empty beer can, seriously strong until you just barely crush or dent a side surface, then its integrity is ruined and it becomes seriously weak.

wayoflife
04-23-2012, 04:54 PM
Sorry, I was answering in the snorkel thread you and I are having fun with :crazyeyes: No that is not my drive shaft, but you do know him though, our jeeps get mistaken all the time, but he runs 42"s and has a sweet LJ ;) I did tow him off the trail though. his damage came from after market full skid plates, one of the more popular systems. My point to Nacho was that, although driveshafts (the main tube portions is what I am addressing, not U-joints, yokes, etc) are incredibly strong, they are only strong until something scores or dents that relatively thin wall/gauge tubing. Think of it like an empty beer can, seriously strong until you just barely crush or dent a side surface, then its integrity is ruin and it becomes seriously weak.

:cheesy:

ah, i remember when luai did that. as mentioned, the edge of the skid plate scored the shaft and most likely compromised its integrity. i could be wrong but, i would hope that the drive shaft making contact with the round heat shield of the exhaust cross over would not have the same effect. being that the exhaust is hung on rubber hangers, i would hope that it would also give a little as well but, i'm sure time will tell either way.

matt
04-23-2012, 07:09 PM
I had to pull my new Reel and have it balanced properly by a local shop. Ended up needing a lot more weight than when it shipped from reel. Vibed bad at 60+.

When I reinstall it this week I'll get a better idea of how much more clearance my 1310 needs. It does rub, just not sure how much it will need to clear.

I have the tf spacers but would rather not use them.

wayoflife
04-23-2012, 07:13 PM
I had to pull my new Reel and have it balanced properly by a local shop. Ended up needing a lot more weight than when it shipped from reel. Vibed bad at 60+.

When I reinstall it this week I'll get a better idea of how much more clearance my 1310 needs. It does rub, just not sure how much it will need to clear.

I have the tf spacers but would rather not use them.

what is your caster set at and what gear ratio are you running? post up a pic of your angle finder if you can so that we can be working off the same page.

MTG
04-23-2012, 07:16 PM
I had to pull my new Reel and have it balanced properly by a local shop. Ended up needing a lot more weight than when it shipped from reel. Vibed bad at 60+.

When I reinstall it this week I'll get a better idea of how much more clearance my 1310 needs. It does rub, just not sure how much it will need to clear.

I have the tf spacers but would rather not use them.

Isn't JE Reel "local" to you?

I'm with you, I'd skip the spacers if possible. I was fortunate and didn't need it.

wayoflife
04-23-2012, 07:28 PM
Isn't JE Reel "local" to you?

I'm with you, I'd skip the spacers if possible. I was fortunate and didn't need it.

funny, you have the 3.5" evo enforcer kit don't you? i remember you had posted up pics that clearly showed you didn't have any drive shaft/exhaust cross over clearlance issues either. :thinking:

MTG
04-23-2012, 07:40 PM
funny, you have the 3.5" evo enforcer kit don't you? i remember you had posted up pics that clearly showed you didn't have any drive shaft/exhaust cross over clearlance issues either. :thinking:

Yep. Plenty of clearance with the JE Reel 1310 DS.

http://www.jk-forum.com/jk-show-tell-33/new-evo-mfg-protek-skid-system-2012-jeep-jk-wranglers-198955/page29/

Post #290

nacho
04-23-2012, 11:52 PM
rock krawler short arms, evo plush ride springs and fox shocks. tons of travel.. Not to worry I have relocated my crossover. Long arms are the next suspension mod, but currently addressing the super strong factory axles :grayno:

matt
04-24-2012, 01:47 PM
what is your caster set at and what gear ratio are you running? post up a pic of your angle finder if you can so that we can be working off the same page.

Somewhere around 4.5 and 4:10s in rubi axles.

matt
04-24-2012, 01:53 PM
Isn't JE Reel "local" to you?

I'm with you, I'd skip the spacers if possible. I was fortunate and didn't need it.

Well not exactly local, but we are both in SoCal. It was cheaper to pay the $40 to have it rebalanced then to drive to reel or have to deal with shipping it. This way I get a second opinion and can sleep better at night.

wayoflife
04-24-2012, 02:03 PM
Somewhere around 4.5 and 4:10s in rubi axles.

where did you take that caster reading from? even if your drive shaft weren't balanced, i'd be hard pressed to believe that you'd be having vibrations with factory caster and 4.10 gears. also, just out of curiosity, if it were really so off, why didn't you just send the shaft back to have it re-balanced under warranty?

matt
04-24-2012, 05:28 PM
Had an alignment shop put it on the rack and give me a baseline to work with after I lifted it. $20 bucks.

I pulled the ds and vibes went a way. I haven't confirmed it's the ds yet, been too busy. So I'm in no way bashing reel, just throwing out what the driveline shop told me, and the amount of weight on it now vs when I took it to them. Even they said to run it to confirm before calling reel.

If the ds goes on and the vibe I got at 60+ is gone then I know the culprit. I took the 35's out of the picture, I'm running stock sra tires so its not the rubber causing the vibes. Might end up being something in the axle, who knows.

Reel is 50 miles away, the shop I took it to is 5. I wanted a second opinion on the ds.

I need to spend some time under the jeep to get things sorted as everyone issues are always a little different with so many variables.

I just wanted to jump in and share my 1310 rub since I was surprised as I read and was told that I won't have any issues.


--
Matt

wayoflife
04-24-2012, 07:05 PM
Had an alignment shop put it on the rack and give me a baseline to work with after I lifted it. $20 bucks.

I pulled the ds and vibes went a way. I haven't confirmed it's the ds yet, been too busy. So I'm in no way bashing reel, just throwing out what the driveline shop told me, and the amount of weight on it now vs when I took it to them. Even they said to run it to confirm before calling reel.

If the ds goes on and the vibe I got at 60+ is gone then I know the culprit. I took the 35's out of the picture, I'm running stock sra tires so its not the rubber causing the vibes. Might end up being something in the axle, who knows.

Reel is 50 miles away, the shop I took it to is 5. I wanted a second opinion on the ds.

I need to spend some time under the jeep to get things sorted as everyone issues are always a little different with so many variables.

I just wanted to jump in and share my 1310 rub since I was surprised as I read and was told that I won't have any issues.


--
Matt

no sweat off my back even if you were trying to bash reel, just trying to help and i just didn't think it sounded right to me. even if it weren't balanced just right, 4.10's shouldn't have enough spin to cause a vibration unless your caster were pretty off. still, i guess you've gotta start somewhere if you really want to find the culprit. hopefully that's all it was.

matt
05-11-2012, 05:10 AM
Finally got around to working on this tonight. The axle clearance problem was minimal, removed the heat shield and all is well in droop land. Its close, but doesn't rub, about 1/8+ from the pipe.

The DS feels much better now that it was re-balanced.

So ya, skip the y-pipe. :thumb:

Polarbear
05-15-2012, 12:19 AM
What about both the y-pipe and the shaft?

wayoflife
05-15-2012, 12:23 AM
Finally got around to working on this tonight. The axle clearance problem was minimal, removed the heat shield and all is well in droop land. Its close, but doesn't rub, about 1/8+ from the pipe.

The DS feels much better now that it was re-balanced.

So ya, skip the y-pipe. :thumb:

glad to hear you got it fixed.


What about both the y-pipe and the shaft?

it's your money and you're free to spend it on whatever you want, even if it's on things that you don't need :yup:

Polarbear
05-16-2012, 03:51 AM
I was just wondering if it would give you more room, if it's even necessary.

wayoflife
05-16-2012, 02:22 PM
I was just wondering if it would give you more room, if it's even necessary.

yes, it would but, it would cause your exhaust cross over to make contact with any aftermarket skid plate you might install.

Polarbear
05-17-2012, 12:54 AM
I see, thanks for the info. I sure do appreciate it.

sempermarc
09-25-2013, 03:45 AM
What's your caster angle? I have not measured my caster yet but I am willing to be it is in the negative now. I just installed a 1350 front DS and I am within 1 deg of 0 on the pinion and DS angle but now at highway speeds it gets a little hairy as she gets pretty flighty when I hit some grooves in the pavement. I know this can be fixed by clocking the inner "C"s or buying an aftermarket axle assembly. How did you deal with it or did you? Thanks for any input you might have.



I just wanted to post this up as a public service announcement as I get 2012 owners asking me this question all the time. If you lift your 2012 Jeep JK Wrangler more than 2.5", you will have issues with your factory front drive shaft making contact with the exhaust cross over. However, rather than wasting your money on a Y-Pipe kit that can cost upwards of $300, please do yourself a favor, spend the extra $150 and just upgrade your front drive shaft to a 1310 drive shaft like the kind that J.E. Reel or even Coast makes.

So you know, an aftermarket 1310 drive shaft or even 1350 drive shaft will be narrower in diameter, will not have a slip shaft boot and will not make contact with your JK's exhaust cross over as would be the case with a factory drive shaft. This is a shot of a factory drive shaft installed on a 2012 JK with 3.5" of lift and at a full droop...

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=268399

Now, this is a shot of our J.E. Reel 1350 front drive shaft installed on Rubicat with 12" coil overs, no exhaust modifications and at a full droop...

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=276710

As you can see, the shaft is not making any contact with the exhaust cross over and there is plenty of room to spare. Also, on the 2012 JK's, the taller you go, the more of an angle you will have at your output shaft CV joint. At just 3.5" of lift, this angle will be sever enough to cause the CV boot to fail prematurely and so, even if you were to install a Y-Pipe, you would still end up having to replace your front drive shaft sooner than later.

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=268401

Need I say, do yourself a favor, spend just a little more cash and do things right the first time around.

This has been a public service announcement from your WAYALIFE.com Administrator :cool:

wayoflife
09-25-2013, 05:39 AM
My caster? It's at +4 as it should be. Unlike your rear drive shaft, you MUST put a priority on caster over pinion angle. Assuming you have a drive shaft that is balanced well, you shouldn't have any drive line vibrations with this setup.

sempermarc
09-25-2013, 04:08 PM
Thanks. I was worried about pinion angle. JE Reel says 0 deg and I was concerned it could bind and grenade my transfer case. I will adjust it tonight.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using WAYALIFE mobile app

wayoflife
09-25-2013, 04:10 PM
Thanks. I was worried about pinion angle. JE Reel says 0 deg and I was concerned it could bind and grenade my transfer case. I will adjust it tonight.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using WAYALIFE mobile app

On a JK front axle, 0 measured at the pinion = +4 of caster. If you were to take a reading on top of your ball joint, this is what you would see. Again, up front, your front drive shaft should NOT be in line with your pinion.

sempermarc
09-25-2013, 04:21 PM
Does it matter that it's a double CV driveshaft?

wayoflife
09-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Does it matter that it's a double CV driveshaft?

That's the only kind of aftermarket shaft you really can use up front.

kyleolson
09-26-2013, 03:08 AM
This is what I did!!! Love it...

texas05
01-08-2014, 04:16 PM
Finally got around to working on this tonight. The axle clearance problem was minimal, removed the heat shield and all is well in droop land. Its close, but doesn't rub, about 1/8+ from the pipe.

The DS feels much better now that it was re-balanced.

So ya, skip the y-pipe. :thumb:

I have a 1310 installed and still make slight contact with the exhaust heat shield. I installed exhaust spacers to get more clearance but don't like how low the crossover gets. If I cut off the heat shield it will fix the clearance issue.

How easy did the heat shield come off? Did you use a grinder?

Question for the larger audience, Any need for the heat shield with the stock rubber boot not there now? I would like to remove the spacers.

wayoflife
01-08-2014, 04:34 PM
I have a 1310 installed and still make slight contact with the exhaust heat shield. I installed exhaust spacers to get more clearance but don't like how low the crossover gets. If I cut off the heat shield it will fix the clearance issue.

How easy did the heat shield come off? Did you use a grinder?

Question for the larger audience, Any need for the heat shield with the stock rubber boot not there now? I would like to remove the spacers.

LOL!! Give it some time and the shield will break off all on it's own :crazyeyes:

Seriously, you can just grind off the tack welds and it should come off pretty easy. Having said that, I don't know if the shield is there more for the slip shaft boot or to help prevent heat from translating to the sump pan or both.

texas05
01-08-2014, 04:49 PM
LOL!! Give it some time and the shield will break off all on it's own :crazyeyes:

Seriously, you can just grind off the tack welds and it should come off pretty easy. Having said that, I don't know if the shield is there more for the slip shaft boot or to help prevent heat from translating to the sump pan or both.

I'm thinking it's only there for the rubber boot protection because the heat shield does not extend under the transmission pan. The only concern might be heat transfer to the new driveshaft.

wayoflife
01-08-2014, 04:57 PM
I'm thinking it's only there for the rubber boot protection because the heat shield does not extend under the transmission pan. The only concern might be heat transfer to the new driveshaft.

Really?

63621

Or, is it that you have a manual?

texas05
01-08-2014, 05:14 PM
Really?

63621

Or, is it that you have a manual?

Great question, 99% certain but I had to go and verify. I have a 14 auto it does not extend under the pan. I also checked my sons Sport and it's the same (yes we bought another and now have 2; the Sport is a 2 door softtop). Here is a picture, is this different than previous years?

Thanks

wayoflife
01-08-2014, 05:45 PM
Great question, 99% certain but I had to go and verify. I have a 14 auto it does not extend under the pan. I also checked my sons Sport and it's the same (yes we bought another and now have 2; the Sport is a 2 door softtop). Here is a picture, is this different than previous years?

Thanks

Sorry, I see what you're saying, the shield doesn't extend under the pan. Yeah, you're right, maybe you'd be okay without it then.

texas05
01-08-2014, 05:56 PM
Sorry, I see what you're saying, the shield doesn't extend under the pan. Yeah, you're right, maybe you'd be okay without it then.

I'm cutting it off. I talked to Bill at Coast and others have done the same thing. Heat is not an issue right there with the driveshaft.

texas05
01-08-2014, 06:49 PM
Done. Now I don't have to worry about it. Also you can see how the crossover is parallel to the crossmember now and above it. Skid install won't be an issue now.

JayKay
01-08-2014, 07:18 PM
So the maximum shaft diameter is the same between the 1310 and 1350, correct? Is it worth going to a 1350 if a PR44 or newer equivalent with the next 4-5 years:( I only do minor wheeling at the time, mostly highway driving and some light trails. I just want to upgrade the front shaft and get rid of the exhaust extensions because is don't like how they put the hangers and the rest of the exhaust system under stress by having everything pushed back .

JK_Dave
01-08-2014, 09:08 PM
So the maximum shaft diameter is the same between the 1310 and 1350, correct? Is it worth going to a 1350 if a PR44 or newer equivalent with the next 4-5 years:( I only do minor wheeling at the time, mostly highway driving and some light trails. I just want to upgrade the front shaft and get rid of the exhaust extensions because is don't like how they put the hangers and the rest of the exhaust system under stress by having everything pushed back .

The shaft diameter is smaller on a 1310 than a 1350. I can't recall how much, but that may differ from one manufacturer to another.

What size tires are you planning to run? That's your primary question to answer to determine which one is right for you. This is a 1350 compared to the stock d/s.

63652

JayKay
01-09-2014, 12:28 AM
The shaft diameter is smaller on a 1310 than a 1350. I can't recall how much, but that may differ from one manufacturer to another.

What size tires are you planning to run? That's your primary question to answer to determine which one is right for you.

If I go with a J.E. Reel 1350, it'll clear the crossover, right? Pretty sure it should since Eddie says it will, I think he knows his stuff;) I plan to run 37s max once I get a PR44, but the PR44 won't be for a few years as I said earlier. Anything bigger than 37s would be overkill for what I plan on doing and for the trails here in MO, unless I was building a rock bouncer. Just curious if a 1350 would be overkill or not.

wayoflife
01-09-2014, 01:36 AM
If I go with a J.E. Reel 1350, it'll clear the crossover, right? Pretty sure it should since Eddie says it will, I think he knows his stuff;) I plan to run 37s max once I get a PR44, but the PR44 won't be for a few years as I said earlier. Anything bigger than 37s would be overkill for what I plan on doing and for the trails here in MO, unless I was building a rock bouncer. Just curious if a 1350 would be overkill or not.

Technically, a 1310 is weaker than a factory shaft as the one u-joint it has is actually a 1330. For most people, a 1310 will get the job done but if you're going to run 37's, I personally would recommend getting a 1350. Oh, and yes, my JE Reel clears.

JayKay
01-09-2014, 01:52 AM
Technically, a 1310 is weaker than a factory shaft as the one u-joint it has is actually a 1330. For most people, a 1310 will get the job done but if you're going to run 37's, I personally would recommend getting a 1350. Oh, and yes, my JE Reel clears.

Hoping you'd say that. I'd rather get the 1350 and have it be more than I truly need, than to go with the 1310 and not really upgrade from the stock, other than clearing the exhaust. Last I looked the 1350 isn't much more $$ than the 1310 anyway

JK_Dave
01-09-2014, 05:17 PM
Hoping you'd say that. I'd rather get the 1350 and have it be more than I truly need, than to go with the 1310 and not really upgrade from the stock, other than clearing the exhaust. Last I looked the 1350 isn't much more $$ than the 1310 anyway

Well, while you are clearing the exhaust easier, you're really upgrading to replace the factory CV joint for a double cardan with u-joints. That's your main benefit. For just an extra $200, it's worth it IMO.

JayKay
01-09-2014, 05:25 PM
Well, while you are clearing the exhaust easier, you're really upgrading to replace the factory CV joint for a double cardan with u-joints. That's your main benefit. For just an extra $200, it's worth it IMO.

Yup, that's the way I look at it. As Eddie's OP stated, you're killing two birds with one stone. I'm sure that I'm like others with a '12+ JK, never thought about changing the shaft after a lift is installed, just looked at ways to modify the exhaust to clear the OE shaft.