RamP
Member
Found a video of a closer look at the Metal cloak control arms. Looks interesting.
http://youtu.be/8dE_tFFvjfU
http://youtu.be/8dE_tFFvjfU
Metal cloak
- Thread starter RamP
- Start date
StrizzyChris
New member
I have a few problems with their marketing.
#1 The "Self Realignment" crap that they are talking about...I call that the terrain! If you are using a JJ or OEM or MC joints the ground with do all the alignment and the joint will only go with it until it binds at max fles. The image that they are trying to portray that the MC self realignment will recenter itself by moving a 7k pound vehicle is comical. Its pure marketing BS!
#2 They claim no wear surface with micro motion but claim full bind free movement with macro motion. Either they move or don't and both are ok but don't claim that they are the best of both worlds and the competition cant stack up in these two situations. A well serviced JJ will be just fine with its "wear surface", and an OEM joint will and often does last the life of the vehicle with their "micro motions".
#3 in the comparison with Johhny Joint, they are using only one and keeping the stock side an OEM. That end of the control arm shouldn't be used as comparison. If they are going to compare an arm with JJs then they should use an arm with JJs on both ends.
It is a neat concept, and I have been asking about it a lot over the past year. I still haven't heard anything bad about them, and the price point for an 8 arm short arm kit is right with RK, Currie, and Synergy +/- a hundred. I don't know if that's because people actually do like them or that they have the buyers commitment to their purchase decision that we have seen time and time again.
I like the design with the joint not contacting the OEM brackets, but I am not sure how much this really matters. There is not a Zerk fitting to grease the joint, and it appears you have to take the arm off and disassemble it every time you want to lube/service it with one specific type of grease, so that kinda sucks. I would like to hear more about how often you do need to service them. Also they boast their OEM style arm design to keep the joints in alignment. Its a great design, but I am not sure how much it effects the ROM in real life or if it has any effect on extending the life of the joint. :idontknow:
Lastly I have only seen them used with shock and coil setups so not sure how well the joints would hold up against a coilover set up. I know that with EVO's DTD front and rear lever kits, the use of limiting straps are needed to stop it at 14" of wheel travel and based on report the JJs are just fine.
I know that none of this gave you an answer, but its food for thought. Its still a company that I am considering to purchase my arms from once I get my lift installed, but no matter who is selling/marketing something to me, I always try to make sure weed out all the BS they are feeding me and look at the real life application of it.
#1 The "Self Realignment" crap that they are talking about...I call that the terrain! If you are using a JJ or OEM or MC joints the ground with do all the alignment and the joint will only go with it until it binds at max fles. The image that they are trying to portray that the MC self realignment will recenter itself by moving a 7k pound vehicle is comical. Its pure marketing BS!
#2 They claim no wear surface with micro motion but claim full bind free movement with macro motion. Either they move or don't and both are ok but don't claim that they are the best of both worlds and the competition cant stack up in these two situations. A well serviced JJ will be just fine with its "wear surface", and an OEM joint will and often does last the life of the vehicle with their "micro motions".
#3 in the comparison with Johhny Joint, they are using only one and keeping the stock side an OEM. That end of the control arm shouldn't be used as comparison. If they are going to compare an arm with JJs then they should use an arm with JJs on both ends.
It is a neat concept, and I have been asking about it a lot over the past year. I still haven't heard anything bad about them, and the price point for an 8 arm short arm kit is right with RK, Currie, and Synergy +/- a hundred. I don't know if that's because people actually do like them or that they have the buyers commitment to their purchase decision that we have seen time and time again.
I like the design with the joint not contacting the OEM brackets, but I am not sure how much this really matters. There is not a Zerk fitting to grease the joint, and it appears you have to take the arm off and disassemble it every time you want to lube/service it with one specific type of grease, so that kinda sucks. I would like to hear more about how often you do need to service them. Also they boast their OEM style arm design to keep the joints in alignment. Its a great design, but I am not sure how much it effects the ROM in real life or if it has any effect on extending the life of the joint. :idontknow:
Lastly I have only seen them used with shock and coil setups so not sure how well the joints would hold up against a coilover set up. I know that with EVO's DTD front and rear lever kits, the use of limiting straps are needed to stop it at 14" of wheel travel and based on report the JJs are just fine.
I know that none of this gave you an answer, but its food for thought. Its still a company that I am considering to purchase my arms from once I get my lift installed, but no matter who is selling/marketing something to me, I always try to make sure weed out all the BS they are feeding me and look at the real life application of it.
Strizz, they say it does move with Macro movement; but thats where the grease comes in to lube the surfaces. Im not championing any of this; im just saying.
I would like to see long term wear tests... I have never seen a rubber bushing that didn't eventually "pop" loose after a while.
I would like to see long term wear tests... I have never seen a rubber bushing that didn't eventually "pop" loose after a while.
StrizzyChris
New member
Actually they say/show/imply that it doesn't move with micro. Watch the video at the 3:05 mark. They state there is "no wear surface" which implies that no part of the joint is spinning within the cup/housing. The video also shows this at 3:11. Now watch the video at the 3:48 mark they show how the joint spins freely inside the cup/housing giving you free movement "with a large wear surface".
Like I said it may be an excellent product, and I may buy the product, but the marketing is deceiving. I am still eagerly awaiting the product test video of joints they did at EVO a month or so ago.
Like I said it may be an excellent product, and I may buy the product, but the marketing is deceiving. I am still eagerly awaiting the product test video of joints they did at EVO a month or so ago.
TheDuff
New member
Take it for what it's worth: I asked metal cloak at last year's offroad expo about joint wear and how often they need to be rebuilt. They said the had put almost 50k on the joints on their red jk and had not suffered a failure or showing any signs of wear.
I have no first hand experience, just telling you what I was told. If I'm not mistaken, these joints can replace a jj on a control arm... least that was what it sounded like on a thread I read about these joints somewhere else. If that is the case, then you could use them on other arms if you didn't like their arms for some reason.
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I have no first hand experience, just telling you what I was told. If I'm not mistaken, these joints can replace a jj on a control arm... least that was what it sounded like on a thread I read about these joints somewhere else. If that is the case, then you could use them on other arms if you didn't like their arms for some reason.
Sent from my LG-D800 using WAYALIFE mobile app
Yes I know that Strizz, you said Macro in your #2 rant. and I said macro in my reply. In this reply you say micro... one of us is confused, and I dont think its me this time
olram30
Not That Kind of Engineer
i dontlike to link threads to other forums out of respect to eddie, but is this a common problem with mc joints?
http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=516400&d=1386876049
http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=516400&d=1386876049
StrizzyChris
New member
Well actually I said both micro and macro :cheesy: BUT I did misread your post and thought you said/meant micro. outside of that re-read my #2 "rant"
If you have a lubed surface that provides you a completely "bind free movement" in one situation(macro movement) but claim it doesn't even slightly spin in the cup with micro movement then I am confused with how physics and the world works. Physics would dictate that binding created to not move within the cup with micro (that they state they can achieve) would then in turn be considered a level of bind in macro movement.
If you're going to link finish the story.... This is an issue but it has been a new installation issue. No one stated it has happened after it was fixed initially.
I agree it shouldn't happen, but the directions do say to check for this before install.
sent from my wiz-bang time killing machine
I got you Strizz. Ok It flexes the rubber in micro, but the coefficient of friction is too much to overcome for the joint to slip. In the macro it still flexes the rubber as in micro; but keeps going to overcome the friction and then it starts to slip. That is how they achieve both. At least that is how I understand it from the presentation given
I agree with this. I think the idea is that there is a level of rotation required before the (tight fitting) bushing rotates.
FWIW I will happily update to the joint longevity as I have a kit coming. I accept the points that have been made in countless threads, but after riding in several Jeeps with the arms and/or coils I decided to try them on my rig. Even if the joints need replaced I can get three for the price of one JJ type. The final push was the three joint failures I saw on fairly new arms this year, (two were RK). I figured if I was going to replace joints I might as well test new tech
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olram30
Not That Kind of Engineer
finish what story? looks like a failed bushing.. just asked if its a common thing with their bushings.
DunnyBunny
Member
I agree with this. I think the idea is that there is a level of rotation required before the (tight fitting) bushing rotates.
FWIW I will happily update to the joint longevity as I have a kit coming. I accept the points that have been made in countless threads, but after riding in several Jeeps with the arms and/or coils I decided to try them on my rig. Even if the joints need replaced I can get three for the price of one JJ type. The final push was the three joint failures I saw on fairly new arms this year, (two were RK). I figured if I was going to replace joints I might as well test new tech
sent from my wiz-bang time killing machine
Were the RK joints the new krawler joints or the old ones? And was it due to the person pushing the limits to far or not poor driving skills <-- no offense meant.
It isn't a failed bushing... It was a poorly installed retaining clip. It should only take 10 min to fix.
Did you read the thread your linking the image from?
sent from my wiz-bang time killing machine
I agree with this. I think the idea is that there is a level of rotation required before the (tight fitting) bushing rotates.
FWIW I will happily update to the joint longevity as I have a kit coming. I accept the points that have been made in countless threads, but after riding in several Jeeps with the arms and/or coils I decided to try them on my rig. Even if the joints need replaced I can get three for the price of one JJ type. The final push was the three joint failures I saw on fairly new arms this year, (two were RK). I figured if I was going to replace joints I might as well test new tech
sent from my wiz-bang time killing machine
I wonder if its possible to drill and thread a hole for a grease fitting. To shoot some of their proprietary grease in from time to time. I guess if it was needed the designers would have done it by now...
I thought about this, but you might need to do two (per joint). After looking at the joints in the video it looks like there are two grease grooves so one in the center wouldn't do much. I think I'm going to wait and see if it's an issue first.
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