MetalCloak GC and Evo Drag Link Flip?

JK_Dave · Jan 13, 2014

Couple of questions to throw out there -

1) Anyone with the MetalCloak Game Changer not running a Drag Link flip of some kind? What are your experiences with the steering feel?
2) Anyone with the MC GC kit that did relocate their drag link, what brand did you use? If anyone knows of any interferance issues with any bracketry from the Evo kit, please let me know.

Many thanks

jnabird333 · Jan 13, 2014

JK_Dave said:
Couple of questions to throw out there -

1) Anyone with the MetalCloak Game Changer not running a Drag Link flip of some kind? What are your experiences with the steering feel?
2) Anyone with the MC GC kit that did relocate their drag link, what brand did you use? If anyone knows of any interferance issues with any bracketry from the Evo kit, please let me know.

Many thanks

I am in the beginning stages of installing a 3.5" GCL of sorts. (Bilstein 5160 shocks instead of OME). I do not plan to initially run a D-Link flip as both Will and Matson at MC highly suggested not to. This is a concern of mine though so my plan be will be to add a Synergy or EVO should there be any issues.

My thoughts are that this is more important on a 2-door than 4 at only 2.5 to 3.5" of lift. If I had a 2-door I would likely ignore MC and do one anyway.

The thing I labored over is loosing the up-travel on the passenger side.... I will let you know how mine comes out.....

OverlanderJK · Jan 13, 2014

jnabird333 said:
I am in the beginning stages of installing a 3.5" GCL of sorts. (Bilstein 5160 shocks instead of OME). I do not plan to initially run a D-Link flip as both Will and Matson at MC highly suggested not to. This is a concern of mine though so my plan be will be to add a Synergy or EVO should there be any issues.

My thoughts are that this is more important on a 2-door than 4 at only 2.5 to 3.5" of lift. If I had a 2-door I would likely ignore MC and do one anyway.

The thing I labored over is loosing the up-travel on the passenger side.... I will let you know how mine comes out.....

The angle of the drag link would be the same from 2 door to 4 door. It is suggested that you run one over 3" of lift.

jnabird333 · Jan 13, 2014

OverlanderJK said:
The angle of the drag link would be the same from 2 door to 4 door. It is suggested that you run one over 3" of lift.

Completely agreed. My comment was directed at the fact that most complain of bump-steer when a flip isn't done. The longer wheel-base should help control this or at least make it less dramatic.

wayoflife · Jan 13, 2014

jnabird333 said:
My comment was directed at the fact that most complain of bump-steer when a flip isn't done.

Really? Like who? Please post up a link to their complaint as I would like to get a better understanding of what you've been hearing.

The longer wheel-base should help control this or at least make it less dramatic.

Really? How so?

JK_Dave · Jan 13, 2014

jnabird333 said:
I am in the beginning stages of installing a 3.5" GCL of sorts. (Bilstein 5160 shocks instead of OME). I do not plan to initially run a D-Link flip as both Will and Matson at MC highly suggested not to. This is a concern of mine though so my plan be will be to add a Synergy or EVO should there be any issues.

My thoughts are that this is more important on a 2-door than 4 at only 2.5 to 3.5" of lift. If I had a 2-door I would likely ignore MC and do one anyway.

The thing I labored over is loosing the up-travel on the passenger side.... I will let you know how mine comes out.....

I might have to call them and see what their logic is not to run one. I'm like you in that not running one is a bit of a concern and since mine is more a DD than a trail rig, I'd be less concerned about any up travel.

Let me know your thoughts once you get it installed and I'll do the same.

wayoflife · Jan 13, 2014

JK_Dave said:
I might have to call them and see what their logic is not to run one. I'm like you in that not running one is a bit of a concern and since mine is more a DD than a trail rig, I'd be less concerned about any up travel.

Let me know your thoughts once you get it installed and I'll do the same.

They are correct. If you are installing a 2.5" lift, a drag link flip/track bar relocation kit can potentially over correct your steering geometry.

JK_Dave · Jan 13, 2014

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the quick feedback. I ended up calling them and speaking to Matson just so I could hear it from the "horse's mouth" so to speak. He essentially said the same thing. He did mention that from an up-travel perspective, it shouldn't hurt anything with the ARB edition (which is what I have) to flip the drag link. But from the way they designed it, it shouldn't be necessary unless I was experiencing issues.

I suppose at this point, I'll carry on with the install without it and evaluate it once it's on the road.

jnabird333 · Jan 13, 2014

wayoflife said:
Really? Like who? Please post up a link to their complaint as I would like to get a better understanding of what you've been hearing.

Really? How so?

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass but a Google search will yield hours of reading on this... Here is an article from AEV that discusses it though. http://www.extremeterrain.com/wrangler-jeep-bump-steer-explained.html

To your second question, the longer wheelbase helps control the moment. Longer wheel-bases want to stay straight on the road. The shorter 2-door doesn't have the length on its side so they are often more flighty when the front suspension gets knocked around. There is no doubt that the poor geometry has the same effect on both the 2 and 4-door's front suspension. But the resulting "feel" will be vastly different.

wayoflife · Jan 13, 2014

jnabird333 said:
I'm not trying to be a smart-ass but a Google search will yield hours of reading on this... Here is an article from AEV that discusses it though. http://www.extremeterrain.com/wrangler-jeep-bump-steer-explained.html

Not trying to be a smart-ass but reading an article written by AEV that you found doing a Google search is far from what I would consider to be a "complaint".

...will yield hours of reading on this

Apparently all that reading you've done hasn't taught you much or you're just not very good at paying attention to the details.

To your second question, the longer wheelbase helps control the moment. Longer wheel-bases want to stay straight on the road. The shorter 2-door doesn't have the length on its side so they are often more flighty when the front suspension gets knocked around. There is no doubt that the poor geometry has the same effect on both the 2 and 4-door's front suspension. But the resulting "feel" will be vastly different.

I suppose you read about this too.

jnabird333 · Jan 13, 2014

wayoflife said:
I suppose you read about this too.

Nope, I've experienced this first hand and it's one of the primary reasons I got a 4-door.

OverlanderJK · Jan 13, 2014

I have a 2 door with 4.5 inches of lift and do not have a drag link flip and have never had bump steer. But I don't wheel or drive all that much. :crazyeyes:

wayoflife · Jan 13, 2014

jnabird333 said:
Nope, I've experienced this first hand and it's one of the primary reasons I got a 4-door.

Sorry, I didn't know you used to have a lifted 2-door JK. I've had one with about 4" of lift and no drag link flip and never had bump steer. I've had a couple of 4-doors with 4" of lift or more without a draglink flip and never had bump steer on them either. But hey, what would I know - I don't do a whole lot of google searches.

wayoflife · Jan 13, 2014

OverlanderJK said:
I have a 2 door with 4.5 inches of lift and do not have a drag link flip and have never had bump steer. But I don't wheel or drive all that much. :crazyeyes:

LOL!! You need to do a google search on this and you'll know that's not possible!

jnabird333 · Jan 13, 2014

I never stated that ALL lifted 2-Doors have bump steer I only pointed out that is will be more dramatic on a shorter wheelbase.

I know many on this forum have had lots of first-hand experience, but it is sometimes assumed that others don't. I find it hard to believe that you have NEVER experienced bump steep since in an inherent issue with all solid-axle, short wheel-base vehicles. But none-the-less the fact that you say you haven't is good feedback for the OP.

OverlanderJK · Jan 13, 2014

Maybe in a TJ bump steer was more common but I've never heard of it on a JK.

JK1 · Jan 13, 2014

I had what i would call bump steer with 3.5 in springs net 4.25 and when i did the EVO drag link flip and the rear EVO trackbar re location bracket it seamed to drive alot better on the highway where it use to take some effort to keep it straight down the road but that being said i guess i dont know how severe bump steer can become before it turns into the DW... I will say that adding those to peices help my over all ride that is for sure ..:beer:

wayoflife · Jan 13, 2014

jnabird333 said:
I never stated that ALL lifted 2-Doors have bump steer I only pointed out that is will be more dramatic on a shorter wheelbase.

No, you just states that, and I quote, "most complain of bump-steer when a flip isn't done." Me, I'm still waiting to see some proof of all these people complaining about it.

I know many on this forum have had lots of first-hand experience, but it is sometimes assumed that others don't.

Cool - I was under the impression that everything you knew came from hours of reading you've done on Google searches. My mistake and now I'm all ears - I would love to hear all about your first hand experience with bump steer.

I find it hard to believe that you have NEVER experienced bump steep

Never said that I haven't experienced it, just not any of my Jeeps EVEN THOUGH they were lifted 4" or more and didn't have draglink flips on them.

....since in an inherent issue with all solid-axle, short wheel-base vehicles.

Just because that's what you gathered from doing hours of research on google doesn't always make it true. Of course, I am a French model. :yup:

But none-the-less the fact that you say you haven't is good feedback for the OP.

No offense but, I gotta say, I don't know if I'd ever want to buy a lift kit that you've decided to run especially based on the research you've done.

JK's JK · Jan 13, 2014

You've got me thinking what bump steer is? I think it consists of when your driving and you hit a pot hole and your steering wheel goes that way?

JK1 · Jan 13, 2014

mine would hit a ridge in the road and it seemed i would chase the jeep with the steering wheel it was a lot of babysitting the steering wheel on a rough road and now its two fingers on the steering wheel on the same rough road that is what i called bumpsteer..shit i could be wrong.lol.. i thought bump steer was caused by the angle of your trackbar and dragling and the fact that it was going sideways (a little) insteed of straighter up and down which is fixed by the evo dragling flip getting everything more parrallel with the axle but then again what do i know im just a recruiter :beer:

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