Tea, Crumpets, and JK Dual Steering Stabilizers

JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
Hey guys. Been getting death wobble on my JK at low speeds like 15-20 mph on certain bumps and pot holes in a few places on the road for a long time. All new steering and ball joints, 7 degrees of caster, tires rotated and balanced, tires rotated on rim and rebalanced, Brakes are not dragging. So I made a new mounting area for the steering stabilizer behind the drag ling on the long side axle tube for protection of the piston from road dirt and salt. fitted a pro comp steering stabilizer as its the firmest I could get in the UK. This helped about 30%. So I decided to build another stablizer mount along the tie rod. It is in place of the sway bar bracket on the frame but if I wanted to run a sway bar I could trim the new mount to slot the sway bar saddle cap in there. This mod has removed all shakes and death wobble completely. The whole vehicle feels much more rigid as there were obviously minor shakes I had gotten used too which are now evidently eliminated.

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StrizzyChris

StrizzyChris

New member
You have created a Band-Aid and not corrected the actual problem with you front suspension/steering components. Dual stabilizers(not even one stabilizer) should be needed for your JK to drive like a Cadillac.

I would go over every front bolt you have on the track bar, tie rod, drag link, control arms, etc., EVERYTHING! It sounds like you've replaced all ball joints and rod ends, so that shouldn't be it, tires have been re-balanced so that shouldn't be it if they are in fact balanced. Without looking over it myself, its hard to say exactly what your issue is, but what I do know is that you still have a problem that's only been masked!

Fun to see a RHD on the forum though! :thumb:
 
nicholsmf

nicholsmf

Member
Like has already been said, steering stabilizers don't fix problems. Steering stabilizers simply make you not feel the problem as it continues to happen/gets worse.

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JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
I know what yout saying and I have been through all of that. Nothing else I can do untill new tires are needed. I can only put it down to side wall deflection and the fact that the wheels are offset outside the steering axis on the ball joints so bumps and dips pull back on the wheel and gets into a harmonic oscillation. Lots of solid axle trucks get these problems even from the factory. Even brand new stock vehicles. It cost me £35 to do this and it has stopped the shaking so im happy. I do so many miles in it that I just got tired of throwing money at it every time the joints had the slightest wear in it. It only happened in 2 places in my local town. Not on the highway and never above 30 mph.

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JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
Also bear in mind that vehicles are built to the bear minimum. They dont give a crap that there steering stabilizer are weak and feeble or that the track bar brackets rip off the axles. It just creates more revenue when people go back to the dealer outside of warranty buying stabilizers and bushings and ball joints and everything else. I know the stabilizer is a bandaid but if its a bandaid for a poor factory design and stops the occasional wobble or shake then im all for it. I would also like to add that jeep parts are so expensive here in the uk. Would you want to spend $122 dollars on a front axle u-joint? How about $170 on a pair of 77kick10 upgraded kicker speakers?

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ridg3runner

ridg3runner

-
Let's try a different route then. Explain in detail the characteristics of your death wobble.
The reason I'm asking you to explain what you see and feel is because we see many people complain of a shaking feeling in the steering and many of them ( not saying you) honestly have never experienced a "true" death wobble but have only heard another person down the line mention the term and therefore misinterpret what is really a bump steer. Many of those same people would likely fill their boxers if and when they ever did experience a real death wobble.
 
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JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
OK have experienced death wobble in my XJ at about 55 mph. Happened in the same spot every time. Coming down a hill on the open road then thru a gentle dip and a sweeping left turn. Then It would kick in. A violent shaking that shook the whole jeep. Being a 2 door it made the whole vehicle feel like a cardboard box shaking itself the pieces. I just had to hold on and try to slow down without losing control. Once below 5 mph it would finally stop. The xj was on stock 10 hole rivet wheels with 30x9.5r15 tires. The drag link rod end at the pitman arm was worn and so was the ball joint at the track bar. Changed them and totally fixed. The JK did exactly the same thing but at lower speed. Once it kicked in at about 20 mph I would have to literally stop to remedy the situation. Same problem but at different speed. My jk is on stock gladiator wheels with 35x12.5r18 hankook RT03 tires with teraflex steel wheel spacers.

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cozdude

cozdude

Guy with a Red 2-Door
So let me start by saying that one thing that will be causing your death wobble could be your caster. 7*!!! You should be at factory spec which is 4.2* of caster.

Also recheck your alignment and I would also suggest getting your tires balanced again.

Last but not least don't dis the factory SS. I still run mine and love it! Hell to make sure my alignment was in check I even had it off for a few weeks to make sure. The factory SS has served me well and I will continue to run it until I feel the need for a ram assist. Dual SS will only mask the issue even more and not solve anything. Oh and one last thing, I have a 2 door as well.
 
JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
I was talking about my 2 door xj. Not my JK. And I went all the way from stock caster to 7 degrees on my JK and 7 is where I have got the most improvement. Please bear in mind that It only happens in a couple of places and never on the highway.

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cozdude

cozdude

Guy with a Red 2-Door
JKUndaunted said:
I was talking about my 2 door xj. Not my JK. And I went all the way from stock caster to 7 degrees on my JK and 7 is where I have got the most improvement. Please bear in mind that It only happens in a couple of places and never on the highway.

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Click to expand...

Well like I said you should be able to drive around and on the highway even without a stabilizer on. I would highly suggest you go back to factory spec for caster, rebalance your wheels, and recheck your alignment.

Check out this whole thread on death wobble issues and how to fix.
http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...s-What-it-isn-t-and-What-You-Can-Do-to-Fix-it
 
JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
One drawback I have noticed on the JK is that the track bar and drag link are different lengths which creates a small amount of bump steer. On land rovers they are exactly the same length and I never ever had death wobble on them. I may move the track bar up a couple of inches at the axle end so it can keep up with the drag link. That was my original plan but was getting desperate and the dual ss was a 3 hour £35 fix without leaving the vehicle un driveable while I built the track bar bracket and reinforcement.

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cozdude

cozdude

Guy with a Red 2-Door
JKUndaunted said:
One drawback I have noticed on the JK is that the track bar and drag link are different lengths which creates a small amount of bump steer. On land rovers they are exactly the same length and I never ever had death wobble on them. I may move the track bar up a couple of inches at the axle end so it can keep up with the drag link. That was my original plan but was getting desperate and the dual ss was a 3 hour £35 fix without leaving the vehicle un driveable while I built the track bar bracket and reinforcement.

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Click to expand...

If your going to raise the trackbar you MUST do a drag link flip at the same time. Your trackbar and drag link need to be parallel.

If I were you I would ignore anything you have learned about land rovers and stop trying to apply it to the jeep. It's a different animal.

Did you even read the death wobble thread that I posted for you?
 
olram30

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
Don't be this guy. Adding more steering stabilizers won't fix your issue.
 

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David1tontj

David1tontj

New member
It's cool that you've found a good band-aid. But unfortunately they are right. It just masks the real problem.

I run 40s in a 2 door with no death wobble and NO steering stabilizer at all.

I totally understand just trying to make the problem stop, and it's great that you were able to temporarily fix it with that extra SS for so cheap!

Ps- how is the 4.0 treating you??


My ride- 2001 power wheel, 11" plastic tires, upgraded battery, boat sides, custom bumpers, tow hooks, new paint.
 
jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
not much info on your jeep in your profile - how much lift do you have? do you have an adjustable track bar? agree with cozdude - your caster is too much, while the extra SS has masked your issue, the caster angle can put a lot of strain on your transfer case and crack it.

have you rechecked the torque on the TF wheel spacers? did you remove the factory washer clips on the drums before installing the spacers?

you're on the right track about the track bar but...depends on how much lift you have, on my 3.5" lift I ordered the adjustable front track bar and it came with the proper bracket to keep it parallel with the drag link (no drag link flip needed) but it needs to be correct.

Figure out where the cause of the issue is before you make anymore changes, you may be adding additional stress to other components and facing other issues down the road.
 
JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
The drag link can only be parallel to the track bar if they are both horizontal and the suspension has very little travel or if they are the same length. If your track bar is shorter and they are both at the same angle the track bar cannot keep up during drop which causes bump steer. It takes longer for the drag link to steepen than the track bar. Im not trying to apply land rover set up to the jeep. Land rovers are garbage but they got the track bar and drag link right. And why would anybody run dampers from the bumper to the axle?

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olram30

olram30

Not That Kind of Engineer
JKUndaunted said:
The drag link can only be parallel to the track bar if they are both horizontal and the suspension has very little travel or if they are the same length. If your track bar is shorter and they are both at the same angle the track bar cannot keep up during drop which causes bump steer. It takes longer for the drag link to steepen than the track bar. Im not trying to apply land rover set up to the jeep. Land rovers are garbage but they got the track bar and drag link right. And why would anybody run dampers from the bumper to the axle?

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Click to expand...

That's the point. Why add extra stuff that isn't needed. Are you suffering from dw and bump steer? As others have repeatedly mentioned, to much caster is going to crack your transfer case, you have either worn or lose suspension components or tires out of balance. Good luck in your quest to fix the real problem.
 
JKUndaunted

JKUndaunted

New member
cozdude said:
Well like I said you should be able to drive around and on the highway even without a stabilizer on. I would highly suggest you go back to factory spec for caster, rebalance your wheels, and recheck your alignment.

Check out this whole thread on death wobble issues and how to fix.
http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...s-What-it-isn-t-and-What-You-Can-Do-to-Fix-it
Click to expand...

I can drive it without a stabilizer without any problems except 2 places in my town and 1 place near my work. After countless hours and money spent on joints and rebalanced wheels I thought id try a second stabilizer and guess what. Its stopped the wobble. I had reached the end of my patience and financial ability to keep throwing money at it and possibly incompetent tire shops.

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