More TJ questions...

Maml

New member
Hi All,

So I managed to pick up a 2004 TJ Sahara (M) with 37000kms (23000mi) in reasonable condition (on 39kkms now, after a month of ownership).
Paid a really good price, but had to fit new tyres (fitted 31" Hankook AT's)...

The vehicle was used mainly in town, no off-road or major towing so they say.

I'm picking up a few issues & thought that you guys may be able to shed some light?

- My clutch seems to have a bit of shudder, but the local indy reckons it could be a host of other items including some gearbox bearing, flywheel etc etc etc (I'm not mechanically minded; so I may have misunderstood him somewhat). Any ideas? Could it be that the gearbox/trans just needs a good oil change??

- I'm experiencing a light shudder/jitter over uneven (even slightly uneven) surfaces...the tyres have 2kkms (1250mi) on them & was balanced/aligned at a major tyre place...seems fine at higher speed on freeway etc. Indy checked bushes etc and said all looks fine; but steering damper could need replacement. I drove a colleagues Defender yesterday & it was SOLID over rutted tar; granted it was a long wheel base, but I remember my swb also being pretty stable. I don't want to throw money at it without doing proper research...(the DIY section in this forum; under 'steering stabiliser' mentions it may be the alignment rather than damper?) Thoughts?

- Next thing is mods...I'm focussing on daily drive (tar, gravel, rough gravel) for the next 2yrs or so; with some light trail work for fun. What mods would you suggest - if any...and brands (we don't get a huge variety here in South Africa)?

- When I start the Jeep; there's a strange sound that has only recently become apparent, not quite a fan belt sound but squeaky nonetheless...doesn't do it all the time though. Any thoughts? Will try and record it.

That's it for now...looking forward to any and all responses.

Thank you.

Mike :)
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
First off, congrats on your new to you Jeep :thumb:

- My clutch seems to have a bit of shudder, but the local indy reckons it could be a host of other items including some gearbox bearing, flywheel etc etc etc (I'm not mechanically minded; so I may have misunderstood him somewhat). Any ideas? Could it be that the gearbox/trans just needs a good oil change??

Can you explain this "shudder" a bit more accurately? Are you saying that you feel a shudder in your clutch pedal when shifting or that your whole Jeep shudders when shifting or what?

- I'm experiencing a light shudder/jitter over uneven (even slightly uneven) surfaces...the tyres have 2kkms (1250mi) on them & was balanced/aligned at a major tyre place...seems fine at higher speed on freeway etc. Indy checked bushes etc and said all looks fine; but steering damper could need replacement. I drove a colleagues Defender yesterday & it was SOLID over rutted tar; granted it was a long wheel base, but I remember my swb also being pretty stable. I don't want to throw money at it without doing proper research...(the DIY section in this forum; under 'steering stabiliser' mentions it may be the alignment rather than damper?) Thoughts?

Is this related to your clutch or are you feeling this in your steering wheel or throughout your entire Jeep. Does the sensation stop as soon as you're on smooth ground?

- Next thing is mods...I'm focussing on daily drive (tar, gravel, rough gravel) for the next 2yrs or so; with some light trail work for fun. What mods would you suggest - if any...and brands (we don't get a huge variety here in South Africa)?

I guess you'd need to tell us how big of a tire you're hoping to run first or, will you be sticking with your 31's?

- When I start the Jeep; there's a strange sound that has only recently become apparent, not quite a fan belt sound but squeaky nonetheless...doesn't do it all the time though. Any thoughts? Will try and record it.

Is this sound a solid squeal, a squeek squeek squeek or what? More info will help here :yup:
 

Maml

New member
First off, congrats on your new to you Jeep :thumb:

Thank you - loving it (apart from the niggles lol)!
Now I see I could've been more descriptive hey:doh:...

Can you explain this "shudder" a bit more accurately? Are you saying that you feel a shudder in your clutch pedal when shifting or that your whole Jeep shudders when shifting or what?

Clutch related. if the clutch is out = no shudder. clutch in = shudder the more it comes out...i.e.: reversing up an incline means riding the clutch 'low' & revving to stop it from stalling. The indy also mentioned when the clutch is out there is like a scraping noise heard from outside...which stops when the clutch is pressed in. I didn't notice it until he pointed it out to me. No shudder when shifting on the move...no slipping of gears either.

Is this related to your clutch or are you feeling this in your steering wheel or throughout your entire Jeep. Does the sensation stop as soon as you're on smooth ground?

Not clutch related. whole front end shudders; but I mainly feel it through the steering wheel...took a colleague for a drive today & he mentioned the front felt quite jittery, so I told him to hold the steering wheel; which confirmed his comment even more. It feels like the wheels/steering components/suspension etc is loose (Indy gave bushes & steering comp's a good feel-over & reckons all feels fine). It pretty much stops when on smooth ground - but it is getting worse.

I guess you'd need to tell us how big of a tire you're hoping to run first or, will you be sticking with your 31's?

My goal eventually is 33" (2yrs or so)...we don't have access to upgraded axles etc to go bigger(only through import; or 'broken' & retrofitted from another vehicle). BUT, I'm happy with 31's for now & the fuel cons I'm getting. As mentioned it's a dd & I do reasonably high mileage; so the 33's would be overkill.
I like the idea of keeping CoG low...but the likes of AEV's body kit is too pricey for now.

Is this sound a solid squeal, a squeek squeek squeek or what? More info will help here :yup:

Hmm...it's done it two or three times in the last two weeks or so, so I'd be lying if I made a comment now. Will listen out for it & comment more accurately asap.

Noticed oil on the garage floor this afternoon when I got home...tx case/gbox area. grrr:idontknow:
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Clutch related. if the clutch is out = no shudder. clutch in = shudder the more it comes out...i.e.: reversing up an incline means riding the clutch 'low' & revving to stop it from stalling.

oh, you're saying that the shuddering is coming more from your engine about to stall than from something like a warped clutch plate. that would be normal if the incline were steep and you weren't in 4LO. or, if you were, your gear ratio is too low for your tire size.

The indy also mentioned when the clutch is out there is like a scraping noise heard from outside...which stops when the clutch is pressed in. I didn't notice it until he pointed it out to me. No shudder when shifting on the move...no slipping of gears either.

"scraping" or "rattling". if it's the latter, that's totally normal for an old nv3550 transmission.

Not clutch related. whole front end shudders; but I mainly feel it through the steering wheel...took a colleague for a drive today & he mentioned the front felt quite jittery, so I told him to hold the steering wheel; which confirmed his comment even more. It feels like the wheels/steering components/suspension etc is loose (Indy gave bushes & steering comp's a good feel-over & reckons all feels fine). It pretty much stops when on smooth ground - but it is getting worse.

what i can tell you is that a speed related shudder or shimmy that can be felt in the steering wheel is almost always a tire balancing problem. it isn't easy to balance bigger off road tires and sometimes, it requires more than once or even twice to get it on. does it go away completely on smooth surfaces or is it always pretty much there?

My goal eventually is 33" (2yrs or so)...we don't have access to upgraded axles etc to go bigger(only through import; or 'broken' & retrofitted from another vehicle). BUT, I'm happy with 31's for now & the fuel cons I'm getting. As mentioned it's a dd & I do reasonably high mileage; so the 33's would be overkill.
I like the idea of keeping CoG low...but the likes of AEV's body kit is too pricey for now.

you'll want a 3" lift for that. don't know what's available where you're at but, to do it right, you'll want to install a slip yoke eliminator and cv drive shaft when you do it. that is, assuming you don't have a rubicon.

Hmm...it's done it two or three times in the last two weeks or so, so I'd be lying if I made a comment now. Will listen out for it & comment more accurately asap.

does it only happen when it's cold out or, maybe when you turn on your AC? could just be a pully bearing going out.

Noticed oil on the garage floor this afternoon when I got home...tx case/gbox area. grrr:idontknow:

probably coming from the rear main seal - every I6 motor jeep has made has this problem.
 

Maml

New member
oh, you're saying that the shuddering is coming more from your engine about to stall than from something like a warped clutch plate. that would be normal if the incline were steep and you weren't in 4LO. or, if you were,

That makes sense...yes, I suppose more of 'about to stall'. What is indicative of a worn c/plate?
In 4Lo the shudder is almost nil due to the lowdown torque.

your gear ratio is too low for your tire size.

I tried keeping the diameter the same as the rubicon TJ...did they have different ratios out of the factory?

"scraping" or "rattling". if it's the latter, that's totally normal for an old nv3550 transmission.
Sounds more like a scraping in my mind...what could scraping mean?


what i can tell you is that a speed related shudder or shimmy that can be felt in the steering wheel is almost always a tire balancing problem. it isn't easy to balance bigger off road tires and sometimes, it requires more than once or even twice to get it on. does it go away completely on smooth surfaces or is it always pretty much there?
Are Jeeps generally quite sensitive to balancing issues? 31's are not thaaat big - compared to SUV's & light trucks etc:thinking:
Seems to be getting worse...was fine on smooth surfaces but lately I can vaguely feel it. Will go back to tyre place tomorrow & get them to re-check ;)
Thank you.

you'll want a 3" lift for that. don't know what's available where you're at but, to do it right, you'll want to install a slip yoke eliminator and cv drive shaft when you do it. that is, assuming you don't have a rubicon.

Yeah, Rubicon TJ's were never imported here...only Sahara's & Sports:grayno:

does it only happen when it's cold out or, maybe when you turn on your AC? could just be a pully bearing going out.
Only when starting up in the morning...it's not really that cold here at the moment...ranges between 18'C - 22'C in the morning (64'F - 72'F).
Nothing to do with AC as far as I can remember.

probably coming from the rear main seal - every I6 motor jeep has made has this problem.

Cool. Is it worth fixing?
 
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wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
That makes sense...yes, I suppose more of 'about to stall'. What is indicative of a worn c/plate?
In 4Lo the shudder is almost nil due to the lowdown torque.

Okay, that's totally normal and I seriously doubt you have a bad clutch plate.

I tried keeping the diameter the same as the rubicon TJ...did they have different ratios out of the factory?

Yes. They came with a higher 4.10 ratio. If I could guess, you may have 3.73 or even 3.21.

Sounds more like a scraping in my mind...what could scraping mean?

Hard to say for sure, I'd have to hear it. Could be a throw out bearing going bad.

Are Jeeps generally quite sensitive to balancing issues? 31's are not thaaat big - compared to SUV's & light trucks etc:thinking:

Not Jeep specific but rather, tire specific. Some just balance out better than others.

Only when starting up in the morning...it's not really that cold here at the moment...ranges between 18'C - 22'C in the morning (64'F - 72'F). Nothing to do with AC as far as I can remember.

Well, if it happens again, try to get a better idea of what you're hearing and let us know.

Cool. Is it worth fixing?

Yes and no. Yes, because any leak is annoying and will make a mess and no, because it's not really doing any harm to your Jeep and, it'll just start leaking again. :crazyeyes:
 

Maml

New member
In the last hour; you've been more helpful than any of the local guys. Thank you!!!

Okay, that's totally normal and I seriously doubt you have a bad clutch plate.
Awesome!

Yes. They came with a higher 4.10 ratio. If I could guess, you may have 3.73 or even 3.21.
Riiiight. Silly me.
So if I replaced current ratios with 4.10, what sort of response would I get with 33's?
IF 33's need a different/more suitable ratio to 4.10, what would that (33" specific ratio) do to my current setup on 31's?

Doing ratio's now & then in 2yrs time seems like a waste. Lol, good excuse to do the 33's NOW! :D

Hard to say for sure, I'd have to hear it. Could be a throw out bearing going bad.
I read up on google...from the description of a throw out bearing I can well imagine that's what the problem is!!! woohoo! uhm. kinda.
So if the t/o bearing fails, what happens - no changing gears?


Not Jeep specific but rather, tire specific. Some just balance out better than others.
Will update once they've redone the bal&alignment.

Well, if it happens again, try to get a better idea of what you're hearing and let us know.
Will do ;)

Yes and no. Yes, because any leak is annoying and will make a mess and no, because it's not really doing any harm to your Jeep and, it'll just start leaking again. :crazyeyes:
Okay, will see how we go. Left some cardboard under there tonight - I'll take a pic tomorrow if worthwhile.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
In the last hour; you've been more helpful than any of the local guys. Thank you!!!

Well, I hope I've been able to help you out :crazyeyes:

So if I replaced current ratios with 4.10, what sort of response would I get with 33's?
IF 33's need a different/more suitable ratio to 4.10, what would that (33" specific ratio) do to my current setup on 31's?

You can run 33's with 4.10's but, if you want a bit more pep out of your Jeep, you might consider 4.56. That'll get your RPM's running on the high side on the highway but, it's doable.

I read up on google...from the description of a throw out bearing I can well imagine that's what the problem is!!! woohoo! uhm. kinda. So if the t/o bearing fails, what happens - no changing gears?

Shifting will be difficult but, if you know how to RPM shift, you can still get by. If you don't know what I mean by this, you can techically still shift your transmission without using the clutch, you just need to know the RPM you need to be where things sync up. On my JK, it's at about 1800-1500 and easiest to do on decell.

Will update once they've redone the bal&alignment.

Wouldn't hurt to check your bolts and tighten them to torque specs too.
 

Maml

New member
Balancing was out; alignment was cool. They fixed the balancing at their cost & the ride is now Muuuch better.
I could swear the clutch shudder is even better...thanks again for the help ;)
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Balancing was out; alignment was cool. They fixed the balancing at their cost & the ride is now Muuuch better.
I could swear the clutch shudder is even better...thanks again for the help ;)

Glad to hear that's all it was :thumb:
 
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