Death Wobble HELP!!!

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SpazmanDJS

New member
Alright this is my last resort.... Been trying to figure out this death wobble for months, $3000 and my sanity have been spent. I need any suggestions or out-of-box thinking. Ive looked at it personally, had jeep specialists looks at it (these guys have been building jeeps for years and years), ive even gone to the dealership...no answers, but still get the DW. Lemme give you a quick lil timeline. Oh yeah... 2009 JK unlimited wrangler...

July: Steering stabilizer blows, replaced with rancho... no issues.
Aug: Factory Jeep gets its first upgrade. Warn Elite series bumper. Trouble begins. Get my first session of DW. Bring in Jeep. All steering components fine, shocks looks almost toast. Maybe too much weight on front end with new bumper + winch.
Sept: Shocks/Springs replaced, Old Man Emu 2.5" lift installed in its place, yee haww... DW continues... Rancho stabilizer blown... after only 2 months, new rancho installed.
Dec: Two months of DW continue... components all inspected again, all looks good cept drag link, drag link replaced, ball joints / trac bar triple inspected and all looks good.
Jan: New XRC ****tybilt Rear bumper/carrier installed to add weight to rear in a sad attempt to rebalance ends. DW continues...
?Feb?: Possibly drive jeep into volcano, collect insurance.

Okay so as you can see, Ive replaced any part that needed to go. Nothing else even looks so much as suspect of replacing.. all is tight. I still get this DW on highways, sometimes even in the city at 70 km/h. Let me add, this is no shimmy, it is full out DW at 110km/h. Gone into the ditch twice this winter to avoid semi's having to lock up cuz i need to drop speed asap. I have not wheeled off road -at all-. End of my rope.. need help. If you need any info on anything post and you shall receive.

Spaz
 
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SpazmanDJS

New member
wayoflife said:
Click on this link and give it a read:

http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...s-What-it-isn-t-and-What-You-Can-Do-to-Fix-it

Those should help you out.
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Ty, had already read through and through, trac bar is good, no movement, ball joints are good. DW came before the lift so i doubt it is a caster thing, (i do need another allignment and caster set to 6 degrees, which is what my jeep tech told me for my lift) but still has original caster. Stabilizer is good, tires are balanced, bolts have all been checked at least 5 times by mechanics. Ty again for the reply but I dont see anything in there I have yet to check.
 
MTG

MTG

Caught the Bug
SpazmanDJS said:
Ty, had already read through and through, trac bar is good, no movement, ball joints are good. DW came before the lift so i doubt it is a caster thing, (i do need another allignment and caster set to 6 degrees, which is what my jeep tech told me for my lift) but still has original caster. Stabilizer is good, tires are balanced, bolts have all been checked at least 5 times by mechanics. Ty again for the reply but I dont see anything in there I have yet to check.
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Maybe check them yourself rather than relying on mechanics that don't care as much as you do. :thinking:

If it is death wobble, it will likely be found within the above link.

Good luck!
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
SpazmanDJS said:
Ty, had already read through and through, trac bar is good, no movement, ball joints are good. DW came before the lift so i doubt it is a caster thing, (i do need another allignment and caster set to 6 degrees, which is what my jeep tech told me for my lift) but still has original caster. Stabilizer is good, tires are balanced, bolts have all been checked at least 5 times by mechanics. Ty again for the reply but I dont see anything in there I have yet to check.
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Did you actually check the torque on the track bar bolts? How do you know your ball joints are good? Did you use a dial indicator when checking them? The amount of movement that would render them bad is small enough that you most likely would not see it with the naked eye. Stabilizer wouldn't do squat and I would remove it when checking DW and when you say that the bolts have been checked by mechanics - what exactly were they checking for? You say your tires are balanced but when was the last time you had them balanced? It can take several times for a shop to get off road tires balanced right.

MTG said:
Maybe check them yourself rather than relying on mechanics that don't care as much as you do. :thinking:

If it is death wobble, it will likely be found within the above link.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I agree. DW can ALWAYS be fixed and if the guys you are paying haven't fixed it by now, maybe the problem resides in the guys you are relying on to fix it. :idontknow:
 
jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
SpazmanDJS said:
Ty, had already read through and through, trac bar is good, no movement, ball joints are good. DW came before the lift so i doubt it is a caster thing, (i do need another allignment and caster set to 6 degrees, which is what my jeep tech told me for my lift) but still has original caster. Stabilizer is good, tires are balanced, bolts have all been checked at least 5 times by mechanics. Ty again for the reply but I dont see anything in there I have yet to check.
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sounds like you've had it to the same jeep tech several times, why haven't you reset your caster or at least confirmed that it is set to original specs as you say...lots of good write-ups here on lifts and alignment, when i installed my lift i read wayoflife's articles several times before beginning and my install went smooth, alignment was dead on when i took it in to get checked, i set my own caster per the articles and i have had zero issues, tracks straight even at 95mph! i'd read the articles get an angle finder as inidcated in the articles and do my own checking on everything...i'm also assuming you have stock control arms?
 
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SpazmanDJS

New member
The ball joints were checked by the shop so I am not 100% sure, these guys are awesome so I do put a lot of faith in them... however. I crawled under today in sub arctic temps and bingo, just a simple test of friend moving steering wheel back and forth, I feel excess play in the drag link end.. This blows me away, the drag link in brand new...but, the ends look not so new... is it possible they took out my old perfectly good drag link, and put in a new one with the same broken drag link end? Either the end is shot or the knuckle bolt hole is ovaled. Due to temp I couldnt jack it up and test the ball joints personally, but I will find a warm garage soon. Im beside myself that this might be the issue, either I am way off (not really a mechanic) or something so obvious was missed. I do put more faith in them but we will see.
 
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SpazmanDJS

New member
jeeeep said:
sounds like you've had it to the same jeep tech several times, why haven't you reset your caster or at least confirmed that it is set to original specs as you say...lots of good write-ups here on lifts and alignment, when i installed my lift i read wayoflife's articles several times before beginning and my install went smooth, alignment was dead on when i took it in to get checked, i set my own caster per the articles and i have had zero issues, tracks straight even at 95mph! i'd read the articles get an angle finder as indicated in the articles and do my own checking on everything...i'm also assuming you have stock control arms?
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alignment shop wouldn't set the caster. They said that the rotational motion of the tie rod bar would ruin anything they did (they obv didn't know that the tie rod bar is actually supposed to move that way, just not in any others) so I sit back and wait to find the cause of DW then do my alignment. new rubi express upper control arms
 
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wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
SpazmanDJS said:
The ball joints were checked by the shop so I am not 100% sure, these guys are awesome so I do put a lot of faith in them...
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Don't get me wrong but, if they're so awesome, why haven't they been able to solve your problem? :idontknow:

I've had DW on multiple Jeeps and have been able to fix it EVERY SINGLE TIME using the steps in the link I posted up. Just sayin.

however. I crawled under today in sub arctic temps and bingo, just a simple test of friend moving steering wheel back and forth, I feel excess play in the drag link end.. This blows me away, the drag link in brand new...but, the ends look not so new... is it possible they took out my old perfectly good drag link, and put in a new one with the same broken drag link end? Either the end is shot or the knuckle bolt hole is ovaled. Due to temp I couldnt jack it up and test the ball joints personally, but I will find a warm garage soon. Im beside myself that this might be the issue, either I am way off (not really a mechanic) or something so obvious was missed. I do put more faith in them but we will see.
Click to expand...

Rotational movement in your draglink tie rod ends is totally normal. A straight up and down movement or side to side is not. If you are not seeing this, you do not have a problem. As far as your ball joints go, you NEED to use a dial indicator to measure movement. Anything less than that is not really checking anything.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
SpazmanDJS said:
alignment shop wouldn't set the caster. They said that the up and down motion of the tie rod bar would ruin anything they did (they obv didn't know that the tie rod bar is actually supposed to move that way, just not in any others) so I sit back and wait to find the cause of DW then do my alignment. new rubi express upper control arms
Click to expand...

These guys aren't able to fix your problem and are telling you things that just don't make any sense and yet, you continue to put your faith in them anyway?
 
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SpazmanDJS

New member
Rotational movement in your draglink tie rod ends is totally normal. A straight up and down movement or side to side is not. If you are not seeing this, you do not have a problem. As far as your ball joints go, you NEED to use a dial indicator to measure movement. Anything less than that is not really checking anything.[/QUOTE]

Movement was not rotational is was side to side. Rotational as well (same as tie rod) but I know that the rotational movement of TR and DL are normal. It was hard to see but when I held the DL I could feel the clunking, TRE had 0 movement or any sort of clunks feeling, as was the TB. Not too sure about the DL end at the Pitman arm tho, could feel a small clunk but saw nothing, I could be the clunk Im feeling from the DL end at the Knuckle.
 
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SpazmanDJS

New member
wayoflife said:
These guys aren't able to fix your problem and are telling you things that just don't make any sense and yet, you continue to put your faith in them anyway?
Click to expand...

that was at fountain tire, totally different shop. The mechs I have for my jeep dont do alignments. We just fixed it up as best we could with my AEV Pro Cal.


I should add that I really appreciate all the help, with the info I've gotten here I know I'll find it. Just sucks, I work 50h a week and just dont have time to sit outside and do this work myself with no garage. I thought paying the $$ for professionals would save me time and get it done right. I was mistaken, should kept on doing all my work myself, winter or no winter.

New edit, Im reading and it says I cant change the DL end at the knuckle and need a whole new DL, is this correct?
 
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jtrubicon47

jtrubicon47

New member
My past experience with DW took me about 3 months to track it down. I did the exact same things you all did. The dealership had the best jeep mechanic in the state. Took my jeep to them probably 6 times. I had tires rebalanced, rotated. Put on a new steering. Stabilizer. Checked all the steering components. Dealership all said ok. DW still there.

Then I went to my 4x4 shop and they looked at it. They took everything off the front end and checked all joints. They found 3 joints bad and a steering stabilizer that was brand new Rancho brand and it was bad. Put on better brand stabilizer and the end joints on the steering g components. All problems went away. Total cost was price of steering stabilizer and two hours shop time. The steering ends were warranty from jeep and the lift kit. Once the shop took off the actual parts to check tightness of joints and made sure looked right all problems went away.

I thought at the beginning this is Rediculous my jeep only has 20k miles. Still smells new. Minus the 4x4ing. Hahaha. Anyway it was very frustrating and it's easy to be sucked into the customer service talk.

Another story. Had a squeak for 5 months. Since jeep under warranty I always have dealership look at things first to keep warranty good. Dealership said brakes look good, rotors look good. "Weird squeak goes away when you brake. " So I took jeep to 4x4 shop and with me under jeep to look as well, took tires off and noticed one left rear brake pad worn down to pins and I had rotor damage. I then took this to dealership and the replaced rotor for free. They said at first looks good. Hahaha

Long story short. Trust and don't trust dealerships. Most of my repairs they have fixed with no problems or complaints. They missed those two big things for me.
 
jtrubicon47

jtrubicon47

New member
I also forgot to say. Even with a lift on a jeep. Most dealerships will honor their jeep parts still on jeep. My lift kit only replaced track bar. 4 inch super ride super lift is what I out on. So most my repairs were all warranty from jeep or lift kit from super ride. It's not uncommon for a new part to be built bad on a Friday holiday weekend. Lol.
 
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SpazmanDJS

New member
jtrubicon47 said:
My past experience with DW took me about 3 months to track it down. I did the exact same things you all did. The dealership had the best jeep mechanic in the state. Took my jeep to them probably 6 times. I had tires rebalanced, rotated. Put on a new steering. Stabilizer. Checked all the steering components. Dealership all said ok. DW still there.

Then I went to my 4x4 shop and they looked at it. They took everything off the front end and checked all joints. They found 3 joints bad and a steering stabilizer that was brand new Rancho brand and it was bad. Put on better brand stabilizer and the end joints on the steering g components. All problems went away. Total cost was price of steering stabilizer and two hours shop time. The steering ends were warranty from jeep and the lift kit. Once the shop took off the actual parts to check tightness of joints and made sure looked right all problems went away.

I thought at the beginning this is Rediculous my jeep only has 20k miles. Still smells new. Minus the 4x4ing. Hahaha. Anyway it was very frustrating and it's easy to be sucked into the customer service talk.

Another story. Had a squeak for 5 months. Since jeep under warranty I always have dealership look at things first to keep warranty good. Dealership said brakes look good, rotors look good. "Weird squeak goes away when you brake. " So I took jeep to 4x4 shop and with me under jeep to look as well, took tires off and noticed one left rear brake pad worn down to pins and I had rotor damage. I then took this to dealership and the replaced rotor for free. They said at first looks good. Hahaha

Long story short. Trust and don't trust dealerships. Most of my repairs they have fixed with no problems or complaints. They missed those two big things for me.
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If I had any warranty left on my jeep it would for sure be at the stealership. Unfortunately my warranty ended 23000km ago so I avoid them now due to overpaying for parts and labour. When I go back to the shop it will be for them to take off all my steering components and replace all the ends and to spec the bolt holes for any ovaling, again I will be putting my full faith in them as I just dont have the time/space/tools for redoing my whole front end and have it properly aligned. No garage or even a level surface to park on at my house is a nightmare, that and perpetual winter in Alberta, only 4 months of the year I can do my own work and those 4 months are too far away. I just need a mechanic who understands that if this doesn't get fixed soon myself or an innocent person on the highway is gonna have a bad day. That or my cost to fix will expand exponentially due to the amount of damage all this death wobble is doing to everything in my jeep. I'm actually surprised that after 10 episodes at 110km/h my jeep hasn't shat out my whole front end onto the road.
 
jtrubicon47

jtrubicon47

New member
Well I'm sorry it has been such a rough ride and bad experience. 1 Heim joint and two ball joints and a steering stabilizer is what I had replaced. It was super cheap to fix. Even if I had to pay out of pocket. Still would a been out 500 bucks. I know that be rough on top what you spent already. If its not steering components, rotors. It has to be tires. I run BFG KM2. 35 inch. It's never been my tires. I have researched cheap tires to save money. THey are just not balanced. I understand your frustration.
 
bl17z90

bl17z90

New member
Take the track bar off and stick a 9/16 bolt in te mount holes on both ends and see if it fits snug. The reasob for this is because that hole is a 9/16 hole.

Do this without the track bar in place. You should have no more than 1/16 of play in the mount holes if there is anymore than thr holes are egged out. That was my problem.

The fix for this is to weld a grade 8 9/16 washer onto the mount.

Hope this helps i had death wobble for almost 2 months before i was able to get it all taken care of now i just need to get my new track bar on.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
SpazmanDJS said:
Movement was not rotational is was side to side. Rotational as well (same as tie rod) but I know that the rotational movement of TR and DL are normal. It was hard to see but when I held the DL I could feel the clunking, TRE had 0 movement or any sort of clunks feeling, as was the TB. Not too sure about the DL end at the Pitman arm tho, could feel a small clunk but saw nothing, I could be the clunk Im feeling from the DL end at the Knuckle.
Click to expand...

SpazmanDJS said:
New edit, Im reading and it says I cant change the DL end at the knuckle and need a whole new DL, is this correct?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you might need a new drag link and no, you cannot just change the TRE on it.
 
jtrubicon47

jtrubicon47

New member
One last tip I also did was I grabbed a set of different wheels and tires off my buddy's jeep an checked to see if DW was still there. I proved it wasn't my tires and was more since it did it with his tires and wheels . So try that and see if its your tires. It seems you have tried a lot of things.
 
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