Evo drag link flip/C gusset question

TonyViv

TonyViv

Member
I apologize if this has been asked before but I searched through 70 or so threads and couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

Backstory.... 2012 2 door with 4 in pro comp lift on 35s, had some wandering in the past and fixed with caster adjustment but still had a bit of bump steer. Recently Ive been getting a shimmy in the steering wheel going over some bumps. Ive had it before and was able to fix it for the most part with a tire balance and rotation.

Its back again and thought I should look deeper into it and make sure it isn't anything else.. Checked ball joints, no play(I thought odd at 35k miles) tie rod ends no play, draglink no play on the knuckle but small amount of play on the pitman arm side. Not sure but considering that joint is attached to steering it could possibly cause the shimmy ? Seems like a good time to do a drag link flip. Is this something that might help me? My adjustable track bar and drag link seem to be fairly parallel to each other but not perfect.

So if in fact the flip kit will help me, looking at the evo kit it doesn't come with the pitman arm end and I would like to replace it all.. Is it correct that moog part es-3624 is the proper replacement? I still have my stock track bar to put back on with the new bracket if I cant collapse my adjustable enough.
It also said you need minimum 3 in bump stops, I looked inside my front spring and coming from the top down there is a bump stop that is about 7 inches long, but no stop of any kind attached to the bottom perch of the spring.. Is this a correct set up? and why would someone have put in one so long? Ill attach pic of it.


On a second note, as surprised as I am that the stock ball joints aren't shot yet, I would like to install C gussets. Can it be done without the removal of the ball joints? I have read that it can if welded slowly. No point in spending the money on ball joints if they still ok. Do you find it as odd as I do that they are still holding up?


Thanks
Tony


bumpstop.jpg
frontend.jpg
 
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WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
I would do the EVO kit and just buy an upper end link separately. Your angles look very steep. For a 4 inch lift, did they give you a track bar drop bracket or a drop pitman arm? If so, and you choose to do the evo kit, you will need to remove the existing drop bracket and/or aftermarket pitman arm. And yes that slight play will cause your shimmy.
 
Napalm

Napalm

New member
Welding of the C gussets can be done without the removal of the ball joint as long as you/your welder knows what they are doing and takes proper measures to keep them cool.


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QuicksilverJK

QuicksilverJK

Caught the Bug
Press the ball joints out and then reuse them if they are still ok. That is what I did. The C's can be welded cold to prevent overheating, but you will not get adequate penetration of the weld. You are far better off to get the ball joints out of the way until all welding is done and it has cooled back down slowly.


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TonyViv

TonyViv

Member
WJCO said:
I would do the EVO kit and just buy an upper end link separately. Your angles look very steep. For a 4 inch lift, did they give you a track bar drop bracket or a drop pitman arm? If so, and you choose to do the evo kit, you will need to remove the existing drop bracket and/or aftermarket pitman arm. And yes that slight play will cause your shimmy.[/QUOT




I have neither a drop pitman arm or drop bracket.. So if Im understanding correctly not only are the track bar and drag link supposed to be parallel to each other but also horizontal to the ground ?

Would the proper part # for the end link for the evo kit be moog es-3624?

What are your thoughts on the bump stops?

Thanks all
Tony
Click to expand...
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
4 is a lot of lift with no steering correction. Yes they should be parallel and parallel to the ground. After a lift, it's not always possible to get them parallel to the ground but the closer you get the better. It sounds like your bump stops would be fine but you need to cycle your axle after the DL flip just to make sure. I don't know the part numbers.
 
Trail Jeeps

Trail Jeeps

-
I'll throw my two cents into the ring.

I'll bet that play is the source of your shimmy as a previous poster mentioned, but I would correct that FIRST before adding additional new components. Granted, in this situation it's a good time to replace the other drag link end, but you run a small but real chance of doing all of this and still having your issue.

A lot of guys get caught up in the whole bump steer/draglink flip thing. While it does definitely clean up your road manners and make for a nice street ride, your Jeep should be more than manageable in the standard drag link configuration at a 3-4" lift. By all means, do the drag link flip! It's definitely worthwhile, just do it to clean up bump steer and brake steer, not to fix a mechanical problem you aren't 100% sure about.

Also, while it's possible to do the gussets with the balljoints installed, I would remove them and replace them with fresh balljoints while you're in there.
 
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TonyViv

TonyViv

Member
^^ That makes good sense to change the link first and see how it turns out.

When going to the drag link flip, you need 3 inches of bump stop? Is that in addition to the bump stops already coming out of the top of the front spring perch(see above photo)
I have about 7 inches of stop coming out the top (looks like an extension put on with the lift) but nothing on the bottom part spring perch.. is what I have enough or do I need to add to the bottom as well??

I know most seem partial to EVOs flip, but Synergy comes with the pitman end and seems to be a beefier drag link. What's the difference between them?
And is the Synergy pitman side link same as the factory item? So if there a new one was needed at some point would it be easy to get or a special order item

Thanks

Tony
 
TonyViv

TonyViv

Member
As far as C gussets go, there seems to be 2 styles. A "box" type style like EVO and a "plate" type style like pure jeep...... is one really stronger than the other? What may make one style more suitable than the other??



Thanks All


Tony
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
TonyViv said:
^^ That makes good sense to change the link first and see how it turns out.

When going to the drag link flip, you need 3 inches of bump stop? Is that in addition to the bump stops already coming out of the top of the front spring perch(see above photo)
I have about 7 inches of stop coming out the top (looks like an extension put on with the lift) but nothing on the bottom part spring perch.. is what I have enough or do I need to add to the bottom as well??

I know most seem partial to EVOs flip, but Synergy comes with the pitman end and seems to be a beefier drag link. What's the difference between them?
And is the Synergy pitman side link same as the factory item? So if there a new one was needed at some point would it be easy to get or a special order item

Thanks

Tony
Click to expand...

The bumpstops prevent the drag link from hitting the bottom of the Jeep when your axle cycles. And it doesn't matter if the bump stops are on the bottom or top inside the springs. It sounds like what you have will be fine. If you do the flip, cycle your axle anyways and make sure your drag link doesn't hit anything because it will be about 3 inches higher after the flip. The Synergy drag link joints will fit your pitman arm just fine. Either kit will be fine for your needs. I would make sure on either one, that you weld on the track bar bracket as that bracket takes a lot of force to it.
 
Goldeneagle1LC

Goldeneagle1LC

Member
The box type doesn't have to be as thick to have the same strength. the angles of the box add strength and rigidity to them. That's why trusses are always made out of angle instead of plate.
 
JeepJeep75

JeepJeep75

New member
ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1480699026.494453.jpg Here is what a factory upper bump stop looks like with a 3 inch aftermarket lower bump stop, minus the coil spring. ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1480699230.266233.jpg ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1480699265.637746.jpg ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1480699301.240289.jpg these pics show why a longer bump stop is needed when you add a raised track bar bracket and a flipped drag-link. Both the track bar and the drag link will hit the frame on full-compression of the suspension if you don't have a bump stop that is big enough.
 
USMMA11NC

USMMA11NC

Caught the Bug
JeepJeep75 said:
View attachment 232959 Here is what a factory upper bump stop looks like with a 3 inch aftermarket lower bump stop, minus the coil spring. View attachment 232960 View attachment 232961 View attachment 232962 these pics show why a longer bump stop is needed when you add a raised track bar bracket and a flipped drag-link. Both the track bar and the drag link will hit the frame on full-compression of the suspension if you don't have a bump stop that is big enough.
Click to expand...

Pics are worth 1,000 words. Good job on the pictures, they demonstrate the need for extended bumpstops perfectly.
 
TonyViv

TonyViv

Member
JeepJeep75 said:
View attachment 232959 Here is what a factory upper bump stop looks like with a 3 inch aftermarket lower bump stop, minus the coil spring. View attachment 232960 View attachment 232961 View attachment 232962 these pics show why a longer bump stop is needed when you add a raised track bar bracket and a flipped drag-link. Both the track bar and the drag link will hit the frame on full-compression of the suspension if you don't have a bump stop that is big enough.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the pictures how long is the factory bump stop on top?
 
JeepJeep75

JeepJeep75

New member
TonyViv said:
Thanks for the pictures how long is the factory bump stop on top?
Click to expand...

You know, I'm not really sure for certain. Judging and guessing by looking at my pic I'd say about 5 inches from the rubber spring seat to the bottom of the metal part. 6 inches total maybe without the rubber spring isolator. Don't look at the yellow foam, that collapses and isn't really stopping anything.
 
TonyViv

TonyViv

Member
JeepJeep75 said:
You know, I'm not really sure for certain. Judging and guessing by looking at my pic I'd say about 5 inches from the rubber spring seat to the bottom of the metal part. 6 inches total maybe without the rubber spring isolator. Don't look at the yellow foam, that collapses and isn't really stopping anything.
Click to expand...


Thanks, that helps a lot I don't have the yellow part, looks like I have a solid rubber bump stop extension in its place that's a about 3 inches longer. Maybe they came with the lift and maybe I wont need as much bump stop on the bottom.

Can I guess that the better drive and road manners is well worth the loss of up travel? Also thinking, do you lose droop too? My thought is as one tire droops and the other stuffs up and hits the stop it will stop the droop on the other side?

Tony
 
JeepJeep75

JeepJeep75

New member
TonyViv said:
Thanks, that helps a lot I don't have the yellow part, looks like I have a solid rubber bump stop extension in its place that's a about 3 inches longer. Maybe they came with the lift and maybe I wont need as much bump stop on the bottom.

Can I guess that the better drive and road manners is well worth the loss of up travel? Also thinking, do you lose droop too? My thought is as one tire droops and the other stuffs up and hits the stop it will stop the droop on the other side?

Tony
Click to expand...

On this setup, you're looking at the EVO Enforcer 3 inch lift with the EVO drag link flip. There is no loss of up travel. With a longer coil comes a longer bumpstop. The amount of up-travel is still the same amount as from the factory, it's just been repositioned. The amount of droop is directly controlled by the shock. You can let the axle droop as far as the coil will allow. I opted to get the longer travel Rancho 9ks. I forget the exact number, but I made sure that my coil doesn't become loose at full droop.
Don't get to caught-up in all of this. There are so many ways to go about lifting these jeeps it's overwhelming. Read up in the build-threads section here and you can start figuring out how you want to build your jeep.
Just noticed you already have a 4 inch procomp lift. Those lifts don't really seem like they are to complete, they just get you up into the air.
 
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TonyViv

TonyViv

Member
JeepJeep75 said:
On this setup, you're looking at the EVO Enforcer 3 inch lift with the EVO drag link flip. There is no loss of up travel. With a longer coil comes a longer bumpstop. The amount of up-travel is still the same amount as from the factory, it's just been repositioned. The amount of droop is directly controlled by the shock. You can let the axle droop as far as the coil will allow. I opted to get the longer travel Rancho 9ks. I forget the exact number, but I made sure that my coil doesn't become loose at full droop.
Don't get to caught-up in all of this. There are so many ways to go about lifting these jeeps it's overwhelming. Read up in the build-threads section here and you can start figuring out how you want to build your jeep.
Just noticed you already have a 4 inch procomp lift. Those lifts don't really seem like they are to complete, they just get you up into the air.
Click to expand...



That all makes sense to me now.... Sorry I have been know to overthink shit to death with every answer gotten just leads to another question.
Yes I bought it with the Pro Comp lift already on it and have been working on completing/correcting it ever since.
This is my first JK and its a far cry different beast than my TJ was, a whole new learning curve.


Thanks for all your help and explanation

Tony
 
JeepJeep75

JeepJeep75

New member
TonyViv said:
That all makes sense to me now.... Sorry I have been know to overthink shit to death with every answer gotten just leads to another question.
Yes I bought it with the Pro Comp lift already on it and have been working on completing/correcting it ever since.
This is my first JK and its a far cry different beast than my TJ was, a whole new learning curve.


Thanks for all your help and explanation

Tony
Click to expand...

No kidding about the learning curve!! And keep firing off questions. This is the place to learn some great knowledge about, well, damn near everything jeep and then some! [emoji3]
 
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