Anyone JK owners with motor swaps have trouble with emissions in AZ? (kinda urgent)

L

LiveFree0rDie

New member
I have an 07 JKU with one of MoTech's 6.0 LS motor swaps. Last year it passed emissions perfectly. This year, the wife takes it in and the gal looks at the two ODB2 connectors and says that this vehicle has been "tampered with" and "modified". She fails it and sends my wife to one of 3 places in AZ that can handle "waivers". My wife goes there and the guy prints out this:

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/engswitch_0.pdf

and he highlights a few lines and tells her that they cannot pass the vehicle because it's a heavy duty engine.

My wife tells him that it's an LS1 motor that used to be in Corvettes and probably wouldnt be considered heavy duty. She gets me on the phone with the guy and I ask him why it matters what motor is in what vehicle as long as the emissions are acceptable. He tells me that "they are clamping down" on the engine switching law and the presence of two ODB2 connectors prohibits him from going any further. I said that every kid who put a bigger motor in an old muscle car and dozens of jeep owners in AZ are going to be enraged by this and he said that they are aware. He suggested we go to DMV and try to get it registered as recreational only and just trailer it.

Well... I have a huge investment over 5 years with this thing and pretty much every mod I selected was intended to get the most off road but still keep it street legal. I can't tell you how irked I am.

We now have a 60-day extension to figure out who to talk to. Either this guy is wrong (I read that thing a couple times and there is room for interpretation) or I'm going to be the first one in AZ to challenge this. I don't mind but I thought I'd check first with the community. Any advice would be helpful, especially if you are professionally intimate with Federal or AZ laws.

(I will post this on a couple other forums as well, so if you see it again, just ignore)

Thanks!

LF0D
 
notnalc68

notnalc68

That dude from Mississippi
LiveFree0rDie said:
I have an 07 JKU with one of MoTech's 6.0 LS motor swaps. Last year it passed emissions perfectly. This year, the wife takes it in and the gal looks at the two ODB2 connectors and says that this vehicle has been "tampered with" and "modified". She fails it and sends my wife to one of 3 places in AZ that can handle "waivers". My wife goes there and the guy prints out this:

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/engswitch_0.pdf

and he highlights a few lines and tells her that they cannot pass the vehicle because it's a heavy duty engine.

My wife tells him that it's an LS1 motor that used to be in Corvettes and probably wouldnt be considered heavy duty. She gets me on the phone with the guy and I ask him why it matters what motor is in what vehicle as long as the emissions are acceptable. He tells me that "they are clamping down" on the engine switching law and the presence of two ODB2 connectors prohibits him from going any further. I said that every kid who put a bigger motor in an old muscle car and dozens of jeep owners in AZ are going to be enraged by this and he said that they are aware. He suggested we go to DMV and try to get it registered as recreational only and just trailer it.

Well... I have a huge investment over 5 years with this thing and pretty much every mod I selected was intended to get the most off road but still keep it street legal. I can't tell you how irked I am.

We now have a 60-day extension to figure out who to talk to. Either this guy is wrong (I read that thing a couple times and there is room for interpretation) or I'm going to be the first one in AZ to challenge this. I don't mind but I thought I'd check first with the community. Any advice would be helpful, especially if you are professionally intimate with Federal or AZ laws.

(I will post this on a couple other forums as well, so if you see it again, just ignore)

Thanks!

LF0D
Click to expand...

PM Motech


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
I would definitely get an attorney. Never heard of such a thing but also don't have a lot of experience with street legal engine swaps. Contact Motech as well to see what they have to say.
 
B

Bigjimbo

Member
I had an issue with one of my vehicles here in VA a few years ago. They switched up equipment and it was failing random cars over the country. After dealing with multiple people from multiple organizations - all that gave me different answers, I looked up the DMV commissioner explaining the situation and if he could provide an answer.

Within an hour he "assigned" it to another person who got more information and within a day the three shops that gave me hell, all called asking me to come in. It was resolved the next time I went in and others having the same problem were able to resolve it as well.

While not your exact situation, it may be worth trying if you start getting the run around.
 
L

LiveFree0rDie

New member
FYI gang, I did talk to Robbie and this is the first he's heard of it. He gave my contact info to someone in AZ that already went through emissions this year and I'm waiting to hear back. Hopefully this is just a matter of rule interpretation. If not, I'll get an attorney who specialized in EPA rules if possible.
 
jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
sounds like they don't understand what they're reading.

as everyone has stated, contact Motech.

the fact that the LS swap is a stand alone system and does not modify the Jeep system IMO it meets the requirements of that 1991 document.

your state could have different laws but last time I saw it, the only law stated that it needed to pass emissions for the engine in question. something like:

Arizona laws do require that your vehicle pass emissions testing if driving into the Tucson and Phoenix areas. There are no other engine modification limitations.

did you go the same inspection station as last time?
 
L

LiveFree0rDie

New member
Update: I removed the old ODB2 connector and went to a different emissions place. They pulled me up in the computer and said that it showed that I had been instructed to make repairs. I took a shot in the dark and said that I did the repairs myself. They had me sign a box stating that repairs were made then they hooked it up then kept looking at the computer then the guy checked the VIN on my dash then told me that "they weren't getting everything they needed to see" from the ODB2. I talked to Robbie again and he said it's likely that they caught that the motor and vehicle VIN doesn't match. I'm going to ship my CPU to Robbie, he's going to flash the VIN so that they match and I'll try one last time. If that doesn't work, I'm going to just register it in Casa Grande.

I'm willing to have the discussion about whether this vehicle/motor combination is legal or not, but I'm not sure who I'm supposed to talk to. The guy at the emissions place didn't care or want to know... he just said that the computer wasn't getting what they needed to see and that I need to go to get a waiver. The waiver place is where I got into the "heavy duty motor" debate last time, so that's a dead end too. Maybe there's a top figure in the DMV who has final say? I dunno. Heck, I'd get an attorney if I felt that it would help clarify this for all motor swap owners, but I'm not sure who to sic him on.

Anyways, Casa Grande is my final play and I'll just make up a reason for having it in Phoenix if I'm ever stopped. I don't commute in it and pretty much just use it for grocery, home-depot, and wheeling... never get pulled over. Murphy's Law though... I'll get pulled over 8 seconds after I register it in CG.

Will update after my third attempt with the flashed CPU
 
rogerk93

rogerk93

New member
I would understand if the motor was an aftermarket racing motor or something similar but the fact that is is used in other production vehicles should pass inspection I'm certified in NY for inspections and I've never heard of anything like that.


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
bthomas

bthomas

Member
LiveFree0rDie said:
Anyways, Casa Grande is my final play and I'll just make up a reason for having it in Phoenix if I'm ever stopped. I don't commute in it and pretty much just use it for grocery, home-depot, and wheeling... never get pulled over. Murphy's Law though... I'll get pulled over 8 seconds after I register it in CG.

Will update after my third attempt with the flashed CPU
Click to expand...

Im in San Tan Valley, Pinal County, the last I checked some years ago, we are considered a "commuter area" into Maricopa County, so emissions are needed, is Casa Grande not included in the Pinal/Maricopa commuter sham? And FWIW, the best I remember, if it's not, and your in Maricopa County in the jeep, I don't think there's any penalty unless it's a daily commute.
Anyway, good luck with it either way. Sounds like you've been put through the ringer with it.


Sent from my iPad using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
13_gecko_rubi

13_gecko_rubi

Caught the Bug
They are clamping down on these things for sure. If you look at epa rules (not state rules) it says you need to have same model year or newer and same class of vehicle, I think it may even say same manufacturer. The 6L Gen IV wasn't used in light duty vehicles, it was only used in HD trucks unless u have one of the ones that came out of an Escalade or something that was the same year or newer. Motech has even stated they can't do the 6L in cali and some other states because of this. It's kind of funny AZ is being strict now as u can basically register anything with 4 wheels for road use. Glad I live in MI where they only care about you paying them your annual registration fee lol.

Sent from my SM-G930V using WAYALIFE mobile app
 
Last edited:
DWiggles

DWiggles

Caught the Bug
while the Engine "switching" Fact Sheet has to be real. Hell, its sourced from epa.gov.... was it written by a child making their first attempt at technical writing? Maybe its just the authors blatant lack of understanding of the topic in which they are writing about? Perhaps... Which should bring to question "is this in fact a valid, legal standing document? or more of an EPA wish list- no lets call its a *Fact Sheet* fact sheet"

The document doesn't state or reference a law or vehicle compliance article statute of ANY kind, it only vaguely mentions a "certification process" without any reference to those actual laws or procedures either; documented nor described. It seems to me more like a "dream team paper pusher article" that some unknowing shop manager stumbled across, saw the threats of fines, which are again, stated on the document without any reference to being "in direct violation of..." any law or vehicle compliance article statute of any kind, so how the hell are they to enforce the said fines? But he freaked out anyway (unfortunately, the same shop manager that runs the shop your wife choose to stop at) I'm curious to see how this plays out though.

Side Bar: WHO THE FUCK engine "switches" a Pontiac Grand Am OR an Oldsmobile Calais?! :naw:
 
Last edited:
Andy5160

Andy5160

Hooked
rogerk93 said:
I would understand if the motor was an aftermarket racing motor or something similar but the fact that is is used in other production vehicles should pass inspection I'm certified in NY for inspections and I've never heard of anything like that.


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
Click to expand...

Good to know if i have have an issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
L

LiveFree0rDie

New member
Resolved

All, I recently sent my ECU to Robbie at Motech and he flashed my vehicle VIN into the computer. (I have also hidden the second ODBII port, which got the technician suspicious the first time)

Now the visual inspection of the VIN plate matches the ODBII readout. Last Friday I drove up, they hooked up to the port and had me passed in about 5 minutes... no questions asked. This is a huge relief and good news for anyone who's been considering an LS-swap in AZ.

Thanks to Robbie for suggesting this fix... and performing it.

LF0D.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom