Hydro Assist vs Big Bore XD Box

ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
So, both my pump and box have gone out. Pump shaft broke, and box is leaking profusely. I've looked at the thread on the release of the XD box but the oppinions seemed mixed. My question is, if I have to replace the box and the pump, am I better off with a hydro Assist kit? Or a high volume pump and the big bore box?
 
J

JKDream

Guest
ZachJKUR said:
So, both my pump and box have gone out. Pump shaft broke, and box is leaking profusely. I've looked at the thread on the release of the XD box but the oppinions seemed mixed. My question is, if I have to replace the box and the pump, am I better off with a hydro Assist kit? Or a high volume pump and the big bore box?
Click to expand...

What size tires are you currently running?
I'd go hydro assist personally, the new system sounds great and I'm sure it is.
I just like the idea of something that has been proven for a long time, and also takes stress off other components.
 
ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
Right now, I've got 33s because I can't turn the 35s. However, I'm planning on 37s for the next set if that makes a difference.

When you say it takes stress off other components, what exactly is included in that? I mean obviously the drag link isnt as stressed with hydro, but is there anything else?

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Ddays

Ddays

Hooked
Seems like this is an either or situation since this HD box came out. Used to be with 37's the hydro was a go-to, but IDK anymore. Mel built Spicy Chicken with the new HD box and seems like so far he's got nothing negative to say about it. I do have to say that other than him I haven't seen much chatter here regarding the performance of this box. Hopefully someone that has installed it can comment?
 
ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
Ddays said:
Seems like this is an either or situation since this HD box came out. Used to be with 37's the hydro was a go-to, but IDK anymore. Mel built Spicy Chicken with the new HD box and seems like so far he's got nothing negative to say about it. I do have to say that other than him I haven't seen much chatter here regarding the performance of this box. Hopefully someone that has installed it can comment?
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Another thing I am concerned with is the "future-proofing." Would one suit me better than the other long term? It's hard to know since the XD is so new, what it's limitations are. Ugh. Decisions.

Another note is that ball joints, steering linkage and shocks are in the mix for the next couple months. I'm not sure if those would play in to an advantage of one over the other.

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Ddays

Ddays

Hooked
ZachJKUR said:
Another thing I am concerned with is the "future-proofing." Would one suit me better than the other long term? It's hard to know since the XD is so new, what it's limitations are. Ugh. Decisions.

Another note is that ball joints, steering linkage and shocks are in the mix for the next couple months. I'm not sure if those would play in to an advantage of one over the other.

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Click to expand...

Long term, thats a tough call. With hydro you can run 40's and above with no issues. The HD box says up to 37's but Spicy Chicken runs 40's. Honestly this is probably going to come down to how you wheel.

The other pieces are more affected by tire size than steering system. Pick out good high quality on those & you should be good.
 
fiend

fiend

Caught the Bug
ZachJKUR said:
So, both my pump and box have gone out. Pump shaft broke, and box is leaking profusely. I've looked at the thread on the release of the XD box but the oppinions seemed mixed. My question is, if I have to replace the box and the pump, am I better off with a hydro Assist kit? Or a high volume pump and the big bore box?
Click to expand...

You have to replace your pump and box no matter what. The PSC hydro kit comes with both, plus some other stuff (e.g. High volume reservoir, bracket, etc.) If you go with the XD box, you still need a pump and maybe the reservoir, and maybe some other stuff beyond that. As I see it, the XD box beefs up the shaft and pitman arm but potentially puts more stress on the drag link, passenger knuckle, and associated joints. So you strengthen one part of the system but may cause problems elsewhere. The hydro assist ram helps out the steering gear by transferring some force to the tie rod. This avoids adding stress to the drag link. If your ram is properly set up to work axially with the tie rod, all should be good. I have the hydro assist system and find that it works well, although it was a bit expensive and more complicated to install compared to a box alone or a box and pump. Personally I don't see enough advantages to the XD box that would make me go with that instead if I were making a purchase decision now.


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rockabillyroy

rockabillyroy

Member
I've been looking at the big bore since my buddy snapped his sector shaft on our last outing. We had to drag him off the trail since he didn't have any steering. If there was a failure on another component, I'm wondering if we would have had an easier time getting him off the trail.

That being said, I looked up trail fixes for snapped sector shafts when I got back and found the wayalife vid using the winch to steer. Wish we had thought of that. hahaha... thanks.
 
ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
fiend said:
You have to replace your pump and box no matter what. The PSC hydro kit comes with both, plus some other stuff (e.g. High volume reservoir, bracket, etc.) If you go with the XD box, you still need a pump and maybe the reservoir, and maybe some other stuff beyond that. As I see it, the XD box beefs up the shaft and pitman arm but potentially puts more stress on the drag link, passenger knuckle, and associated joints. So you strengthen one part of the system but may cause problems elsewhere. The hydro assist ram helps out the steering gear by transferring some force to the tie rod. This avoids adding stress to the drag link. If your ram is properly set up to work axially with the tie rod, all should be good. I have the hydro assist system and find that it works well, although it was a bit expensive and more complicated to install compared to a box alone or a box and pump. Personally I don't see enough advantages to the XD box that would make me go with that instead if I were making a purchase decision now.


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Click to expand...
That's great input. And by axially I'm guessing you mean make sure the ram is as close to parallel as possible with the tie rod? I've never had issues with the sector shaft breaking (knock on wood) but it seems like the pump has always gone out first (this is the third time it has gone out) which in turn wouldn't allow me to apply enough force to break the shaft I believe.

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ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
rockabillyroy said:
I've been looking at the big bore since my buddy snapped his sector shaft on our last outing. We had to drag him off the trail since he didn't have any steering. If there was a failure on another component, I'm wondering if we would have had an easier time getting him off the trail.

That being said, I looked up trail fixes for snapped sector shafts when I got back and found the wayalife vid using the winch to steer. Wish we had thought of that. hahaha... thanks.
Click to expand...
That's creative, ill have to look it up.

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fiend

fiend

Caught the Bug
ZachJKUR said:
That's great input. And by axially I'm guessing you mean make sure the ram is as close to parallel as possible with the tie rod? I've never had issues with the sector shaft breaking (knock on wood) but it seems like the pump has always gone out first (this is the third time it has gone out) which in turn wouldn't allow me to apply enough force to break the shaft I believe.

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Click to expand...

Yes, by axial I mean that an imaginary line drawn lengthwise through the shaft of the ram is parallel to an imaginary line drawn lengthwise through the tie rod. You can't get perfect parallelism because the tie rod moves closer to and away from the axle as you steer left and right. The PSC website has some literature on this in the "technical" section.

Your pump may be struggling because it's overheating. If you go with the hydro assist system, or maybe even the XD box, you could help avoid this with a PS oil cooler.


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ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
fiend said:
Yes, by axial I mean that an imaginary line drawn lengthwise through the shaft of the ram is parallel to an imaginary line drawn lengthwise through the tie rod. You can't get perfect parallelism because the tie rod moves closer to and away from the axle as you steer left and right. The PSC website has some literature on this in the "technical" section.

Your pump may be struggling because it's overheating. If you go with the hydro assist system, or maybe even the XD box, you could help avoid this with a PS oil cooler.


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Click to expand...
Noted. I'll definitely plumb in a cooler either way. Does it need to be a radiator? Or would a heat sink be fine?

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fiend

fiend

Caught the Bug
ZachJKUR said:
Noted. I'll definitely plumb in a cooler either way. Does it need to be a radiator? Or would a heat sink be fine?

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Click to expand...

PSC offers a heat sink type and a plate or fin type (I can't recall which). I have a heat sink, which seems to work fine. If I were to do it again, I probably would get the PSC dual PS/AT cooler that mounts in front of the engine radiator, just because it looks a bit more tidy.


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jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
fiend said:
PSC offers a heat sink type and a plate or fin type (I can't recall which). I have a heat sink, which seems to work fine. If I were to do it again, I probably would get the PSC dual PS/AT cooler that mounts in front of the engine radiator, just because it looks a bit more tidy.


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Click to expand...

I can tell you from experience the dual PS/AT cooler setup blocks too much airflow and if you have a winch you'll see your engine temp rise. Also, over time the lower fitting begin to leak on the PS side where they are soldered into the radiator.

I still have the AT cooler but switched out to a heat sink for the PS. I know that PSC runs heat sinks on their Jeeps.

My Rubicon came with a factory AT cooler but the installer that installed the PSC system removed it.....I didn't notice they had removed it until my trans overheat light came on - unfortunately or fortunately they sold the business before I realized what they had done. I plan to reinstall the factory AT cooler this summer.
 
ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
jeeeep said:
I can tell you from experience the dual PS/AT cooler setup blocks too much airflow and if you have a winch you'll see your engine temp rise. Also, over time the lower fitting begin to leak on the PS side where they are soldered into the radiator.

I still have the AT cooler but switched out to a heat sink for the PS. I know that PSC runs heat sinks on their Jeeps.

My Rubicon came with a factory AT cooler but the installer that installed the PSC system removed it.....I didn't notice they had removed it until my trans overheat light came on - unfortunately or fortunately they sold the business before I realized what they had done. I plan to reinstall the factory AT cooler this summer.
Click to expand...
Noted. Thanks.

Sounds like the route to go is a hydro kit since it already includes a new pump, gearbox, and reservoir. I'll also put a heat sink in the mix, but keep my stock AT cooler. Thanks guys!

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2

2011jk

Member
Just FYI I talked to PSC yesterday about changing my complete system over to the Big Bore and was told it will work fine with 40's but they haven't tested off road locked up. They will be coming out with a ported box in the future that would be able to add a ram.

Tech said only reason to go to a Big Boar is their is no flighty steering unlike what sometimes happens with the ram.

Since mine drives great with the ram I'm not changing.
 
AdrockTT

AdrockTT

New member
ZachJKUR said:
Noted. Thanks.

Sounds like the route to go is a hydro kit since it already includes a new pump, gearbox, and reservoir. I'll also put a heat sink in the mix, but keep my stock AT cooler. Thanks guys!

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Click to expand...

Hydro all day and twice on Sunday unless you have special circumstances or are budget constrained. Proven, any tire size GTG, less stress on components, if ram fails you still have steering, etc.
The box is a nice option for those replacing theirs after a failure on smaller tires, those building a race rig (to use as a foundation w hydro too), to prolong buying the ram setup, etc. It's nice that PSC came out with this option, but it doesn't offer the benefits of hydroassist of course (and isn't meant to).
 
ZachJKUR

ZachJKUR

Member
Granite_head said:
FYI, this box doesn't work with V8's. At least that's what PSC told me.



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Click to expand...
Oh how I wish I could have that issue...some day maybe
AdrockTT said:
You're right, I think there's clearance issues due the larger size. Excellent point.
Click to expand...
This makes sense.

Overall excellent feedback. Thanks to all. At this point I've decided to go with a hydro assist. Maybe down the road I'll add the XD box to the mix.

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