Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: 2011 KK (Liberty) CEL - Need Advice

  1. #1
    Nothing but a Thing sipafz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Saukville, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,450

    2011 KK (Liberty) CEL - Need Advice

    Anna, our 2011 KK (Liberty) has been sick for the last couple of months. CEL is illuminated carrying a P0302, miss-fire cylinder #2. Iíve been dinking around for awhile and now Iím running out of bullets. Iím hoping to tap into the wealth of forum knowledge here at Wayalife.

    A little background on the KK engine; this 3.7L has COP (coil over plug) only on one side of the engine, cylinders 1, 3 & 5. Cylinders 2, 4 & 6 use plug wires that run across the engine. Subsequently the following cylinders share coils 1 & 4, 3 & 6 and 5 & 2. This engine has 115k miles on it and only had one coil replaced in the past - no other work ever done.

    What Iíve done:
    1. First time CEL illuminated I got 4 codes, in order:
    - P0302, miss-fire cylinder #2
    - P0581, Cruise Control Multi-Function Input A Circuit High
    - P0579, Cruise Control Multi-Function Input A Circuit Range/Performance
    - P0585, Cruise Control Multi-Function Input A/B Correlation
    The engine was truly miss-firing! I wasnít really concerned with the cruise control codes since it has worked/not worked for a couple of years, but this was the first time seeing the codes for the cruise .
    I had a P030X problem years ago and fixed it with a new coil. We were leaving on a cruise in few days so I took a shot and replaced the coil and all six spark plugs. That seemed to fix the problem for about a month.

    2. CEL returned - P0302 was the only code. It illuminated shortly after a cold start, but the engine didnít seem to be miss-firing. I swapped the new coil with a different one and reset the PCM.

    3. A week later the CEL was back. Again, P0302 and after a cold start, but didnít seem to be miss-firing. This seems to be a recurring theme. Swapped the plug wire and reset.

    4. A few days later, CEL is back, same as before plus the P0581 and P0589 came back. Checked compression thinking maybe I have a head gasket issue. Warm compression looked good at 195psi, cold at 175psi. Range should be 175 to 225psi so that seems ok.
    I checked the coolant level which was good, smelled the coolant, no fuel and check the oil. I also checked the exhaust at cold start. No excessive smoke or coolant smell. Every looked good so Iím ruling out the head and gasket. For shits and giggles I swapped the third and final coil and reset.

    5. Of course the CEL came back, same as before. I took the next step and swapped fuel injectors and reset.

    Present day - CEL is back, just P0302 as before. Doesnít seem to be miss-firing and Iím running out of bullets. Thinking that I might have a bad crankshaft position sensor, but I would think that would throw a P0300, multiple miss-fire? Or is it just a failing PCM?

    I think Iím going to order a ODB2 scanner adapter for my phone:

    IMG_6338.jpg

    Anybody have any experience with this? I want to see if the engine is really miss-firing using live data in the auto doctor app. Or is there a better app?

    Thank you in advance for reading through all this detail! If you have any thoughts, advice or further questions, please drop a line.

    Sipafz - Chris
    Last edited by sipafz; 01-25-2018 at 03:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Meme King WJCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    27,742
    Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I see a lot of 3.7s with loose valve seats. Not saying that is the case with yours but it wouldn't surprise me. Sounds like you've done everything else. Strangely your compression is within specs. Maybe try a leak down test just to see.
    Jeep parts and accessories purchased through the following link will help support this forum and at no cost to you.
    RECOMMENDED JEEP PARTS & ACCESSORIES



    Support the JL forum: JLWRANGLER.COM

    Jeep JT GLADIATOR FORUM: www.JT-Gladiator.com

  3. #3
    Nothing but a Thing sipafz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Saukville, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,450
    Quote Originally Posted by WJCO View Post
    Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I see a lot of 3.7s with loose valve seats. Not saying that is the case with yours but it wouldn't surprise me. Sounds like you've done everything else. Strangely your compression is within specs. Maybe try a leak down test just to see.
    Thanks! I will definitely do that before taking it in!

  4. #4
    Nothing but a Thing sipafz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Saukville, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,450
    I got my scan tool today:

    IMG_6349.jpg

    I take it out to the Jeep, plug it in start the engine and no MIL. Still had a P0302 stored. Viewed the live data and the engine was firing normally. After 20mins and a short drive I had the following:

    Cylinder - Misfire
    1-0
    2-2
    3-0
    4-0
    5-1
    6-13

    Question: How many is needed to illuminate the MIL? Is it so many per minute?

    It was warm today at 40F. Itís suppose to be cold Sunday morning, so I will repeat the test then.

  5. #5
    Meme King WJCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    27,742
    I don't know the answer to your question as to how many counts the pcm needs, but what a weird issue. It may not be a bad idea to run a can of BG 44K through the fuel system in the event there's some bad gas or sticking valves. Only other thing I can think of is your primary ignition wiring, fuel injector wiring, or the pcm itself. Any signs of rodent damage?
    Jeep parts and accessories purchased through the following link will help support this forum and at no cost to you.
    RECOMMENDED JEEP PARTS & ACCESSORIES



    Support the JL forum: JLWRANGLER.COM

    Jeep JT GLADIATOR FORUM: www.JT-Gladiator.com

  6. #6
    Nothing but a Thing sipafz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Saukville, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,450
    Quote Originally Posted by WJCO View Post
    I don't know the answer to your question as to how many counts the pcm needs, but what a weird issue. It may not be a bad idea to run a can of BG 44K through the fuel system in the event there's some bad gas or sticking valves. Only other thing I can think of is your primary ignition wiring, fuel injector wiring, or the pcm itself. Any signs of rodent damage?
    Iíve beed reading up on the issue and found the following:

    ďIf the code set when the engine was cold, chances are the OBDII system is being overly sensitive and there is no real misfire problem. Check for any technical service bulletins (TSBs) that may be out on the vehicle for false misfire codes. The cure, in many instances, is to flash reprogram the PCM so the OBDII system will be less sensitive to misfires.Ē

    I have found this practice of raising the limits in a few different places now. Sounds a bit like turning a blind eye, but if thatís possible, who am I to judge?

    Yes, I have some evidence of rodents gnawing on the hard plastic protecting the battery and alternator positive terminals. I havenít seen anything else on the harnesses or wires.

    Things to do:
    - Check for cold misfires with scan tool
    - Perform leak down test
    - Check plug voltage at the coil and injectors
    - Inspect wires and harness, again
    - Check spark plug wires with multimeter
    - Treat fuel system for water and add injector cleaner

    Iím not familiar with BG 44K so I will have to check into that! Thanks for the tip!

  7. #7
    Meme King WJCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    27,742
    Quote Originally Posted by sipafz View Post

    Iím not familiar with BG 44K so I will have to check into that! Thanks for the tip!
    There's a lot of snake oil on the market, but I can honestly say that this shit produces immediate results in regards to cleaning out carbon. Primarily in regards to pinging. When I worked in shops, I had many customers call back within a week saying their pinging was fixed after adding a can of this.

    So, if there are any abnormal fuel deposits where your injectors spray, this stuff will clean it up.
    Jeep parts and accessories purchased through the following link will help support this forum and at no cost to you.
    RECOMMENDED JEEP PARTS & ACCESSORIES



    Support the JL forum: JLWRANGLER.COM

    Jeep JT GLADIATOR FORUM: www.JT-Gladiator.com

  8. #8
    Nothing but a Thing sipafz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Saukville, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,450
    An update on this: Last January when I was having issues with this misfire the weather suddenly changed, staying above freezing and the issues went away.

    November came round and of course the temps started dropping. CEL came on and confirmed misfire with scan tool. Swapped coils and problem moved with the swap so I replaced the coil. Problem solved for 6 weeks.

    Last week the CEL came back. Scan tool showed misfires on all passenger side cylinders:

    2 - 30

    4 - 2

    6 - 10

    Cylinder 2 was throwing the code and was the only cylinder still using an OE coil. I replaced it with a new one. For the first time a new coil did not remedy the problem.

    Currently I have a minor misfiring on cold starts, only when the temperature is below freezing. Once the engine gets warm the misfire stops and everything is ok, just the CEL remains. Iím going to dig deeper on this and bought a leak down tester. More to come.

    IMG_8354.jpg

  9. #9
    Meme King WJCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    27,742
    Good luck. Hope it ends up being something else but now you'll know for sure.
    Jeep parts and accessories purchased through the following link will help support this forum and at no cost to you.
    RECOMMENDED JEEP PARTS & ACCESSORIES



    Support the JL forum: JLWRANGLER.COM

    Jeep JT GLADIATOR FORUM: www.JT-Gladiator.com

  10. #10
    Nothing but a Thing sipafz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Saukville, Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,450

    2011 KK (Liberty) CEL - Need Advice

    I think I picked a bad day to do this leak down test. I had a hell of a time getting consistent readings from the gauges. They seamed to be freezing up while I was using them. I suppose it didnít help that I had them hooked directly to the compressor without a dryer or filter. I was able to confirm that nothing major is mechanically wrong with the engine, but Iím going to perform this test again on a warmer day.

    Results:
    Cylinders 1,3,4 & 5 were at 32 to 38% which is normal air loss. I didnít hear any loss at the intake or exhaust nor did I see any bubbles in the coolant overflow. I could hear air going past the rings into the crank case. I noted the volume/pitch as normal.

    Cylinder 6 was at 44% which is moderate air loss. I could hear air escaping from the intake valve at the throttle body.

    Cylinder 2 (the one throwing the code) was at 40% which is the line between normal and moderate air loss. I could not hear any escaping air at the intake or exhaust, no coolant bubbles and the crank case volume/pitch sounded the same as the other passing cylinders.

    For fun, I repeated a compression test on the passenger side of a warm engine:

    2 - 205
    4 - 200
    6 - 190 - leaking intake valve?

    So nothing found that actually pinpoints the problem. I ordered a bottle of BG44k Fuel System Cleaner per Dougs recommendation. Hopefully that will address the leaking intake valve on #6. I also got a new set of ignition wires since the misfires are all happening on the wire fed side of the engine.
    Last edited by sipafz; 01-27-2019 at 02:22 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. WA - Liberty Run Saturday Sept 3rd
    By wetfootnw in forum Trails & Upcoming Trips
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-22-2016, 05:30 AM
  2. WA - Liberty Run May 17th
    By wetfootnw in forum Trails & Upcoming Trips
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-15-2015, 04:51 AM
  3. Jeep Liberty
    By VinceB in forum General Jeep Stuff
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-06-2015, 05:05 PM
  4. Jeep Liberty
    By VinceB in forum General Jeep Stuff
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-05-2015, 07:11 PM
  5. It used to be a liberty
    By cevery in forum Jeep Show & Tell
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-12-2013, 11:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
ďwayoflifeĒ is a moniker that Iíve been using for 20 years now and I chose it because I think it does a great job of explaining, in simple terms, the passion I have for Jeeps and the Jeep way of life. This is a lifestyle that transcends age, gender and race as the only thing you need to be a part of it is a love for the outdoors, a desire to explore, a yearning to take on a challenge and a will to conquer it. Over the years, Cindy and I have attempted to capture the essence of this lifestyle through photographs and videos and share it with others around the world. And, this is how WAYALIFE was born.
Join us
WATCH OUR VIDEOS