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Thread: Recent Shooting and Discussion

  1. #21
    Word Ninja Sharkey's Avatar
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    Prayers for the 17 kids killed today!

    Quote Originally Posted by FallonJeeper View Post
    I'm resisting the urge to site drunk driving statics and make some ridiculous comment about how we should make it more difficult to buy alcohol or cars.
    Why would those comments be ridiculous? If we are going to (and we should) have an honest conversation about the social utility of firearms, we should also discuss the social utility of a few other highly regulated things in our society.


    Alcohol (data from CDC)
    - There are approximately 88,000 deaths per year directly attributable to alcohol.

    - There are about 27.12 deaths attributable to alcohol per 100,000 people.

    - Alcohol is attributable to 1-10 deaths for adults aged 20-64.

    - About 4,300 teenager deaths every year are attributable to alcohol.

    - Each year, approximately 3 million violent crimes are attributable to alcohol.

    - 40% of violent crime inmates were under the influence of alcohol when the crime was committed.

    Cars (data from National Safety Council and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)
    - 40,200 people died in 2016 in car accidents.

    - There are 12.2 deaths per 100,000 people.

    - In 2017, the economic cost of vehicle deaths in the US for the first 6 months of the year was $191.7 billion.

    - The economic cost of accidents in general exceeds $870 billion per year.

    -75% of carbon monoxide emissions are caused by automobiles.

    - In 2016, there were about 268.8 million vehicles on the road.

    Firearms (data from Gun Violence Archive which is generally viewed by NRA types as being very anti-gun and very pro-gun control)

    - In 2017 there were 15,590 deaths from firearms; if you include suicide, the number jumps up to 33,590 deaths.

    - In 2017, 3,234 of the deaths were 12-17 year olds (this is all deaths and can include situations where the decedent was killed in the commission of a crime, in self-defense, or by accident).

    -Excepting suicide, there are about 4.8 firearm related deaths per 100,000 people.

    - It is estimated that there are about 364 million firearms in the US (this is an estimate based on yearly manufacture, import, and export rates.)

    - 3% of the population owns about 50% of the firearms (that is lawfully purchased firearms…there is no reliable way to track unlawful ownership).

    - Firearms are used in about 25% of all violent crimes.

    - Wyoming has the highest per capita number of firearms in the country; Washington D.C. is second; Nevada is eighth.
    Last edited by Sharkey; 02-15-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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  2. #22
    Old Timer TrailHunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brute View Post
    If you really care about your right to bear arms, you need to be involved in the discussion in finding solutions...legislation is like a pendulum...there are core passionate groups that are polarized on opposite sides of the pendulum, and a largely unapathetic group in the middle...when the middle group , sitting on the fence becomes energized to respond one way or the the other, they swing the pendulum...by voting in people to enact legislation.

    Some think that the tool is not the problem...some think that is is...it's not that black and white. You might find that the tool may be just a part of the problem...
    You make some really good points. It’s definitely not black & white. And the AR may be “part” of the problem. Or it may not.

    My logic tends to think like this:

    1. Mass shootings with semi auto AR.
    AR Bannned. (lets pretend they all disappeared)

    2. Mass Shootings with semi Auto “Hunting Rifle”. “Hunting Rifle” Banned. (lets pretend they all disappeared)

    3. Mass Shootings with semi Auto Pistol..... Banned...

    4. Mass Shootings with revolvers.... Banned....

    5. Mass Shooting with SA revolvers...
    Banned.....

    Somewhere in there you may want to re-check Crime and Murder statistics...

    I worry it’s a downward slope... caused by a problem.... with most likely the wrong solution.

  3. #23
    Word Ninja Sharkey's Avatar
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    Prayers for the 17 kids killed today!

    IMHO, we (as a collective nation) need to stop talking about the proposed solutions that make us feel warm and fuzzy like they will do anything at all in the long run.

    It’s time to have the tougher conversation about the decay of our civilization. Our nation has become so incredibly narcissistic that we cannot fathom that another human being could disagree with our own personal views without being a racist, a fascist, a communist, whatever (pick your chosen political side or hateful generalization).

    Unless and until we learn to actually give two fucks about each other again, this country will continue on its way to hell in a hand basket.

    As the leaders of the free world, it is incredible to me just how uncivilized we have actually become.
    Last edited by Sharkey; 02-15-2018 at 11:31 PM.
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  4. #24
    Old Timer TrailHunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
    IMHO, we (as a collective nation) need to stop talking about the proposed solutions that make us feel warm and fuzzy like they will do anything at all in the long run.

    It’s time to have the tougher conversation about the decay of our civilization. Our nation has become so incredibly narcissistic that we cannot fathom that another human being could disagree with our own personal views without being a racist, a fascist, a communist, whatever (pick your chosen political side or hateful generalization).

    Unless and until we learn to actually give two fucks about each other again, this country will continue on its way to hell in a hand basket.

    As the leaders of the free world, it is incredible to me just how uncivilized we have actually become.
    Well Said!

  5. #25
    Word Ninja Sharkey's Avatar
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    Prayers for the 17 kids killed today!

    And for the record, I’m not against guns, alcohol, or cars. But, they are all deserving of rational regulation because their social utility is quickly diminished by their potential negative impacts on society.

    Regulation should be based on fact, not fear. It should also balance the interests of law abiding citizens against the backdrop of the harm sought to be prevented.

    None of it matters though if we continue to assign zero value to the lives, and differing opinions, of those around us. Crazy will always find a way to be crazy.
    Last edited by Sharkey; 02-15-2018 at 11:45 PM.
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  6. #26
    Fresh Catch Wazzier's Avatar
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    Just curious, what’s the purpose of owning an AR anyway? Seems like a lousy choice for hunting or personal protection.


    Cheers.

  7. #27
    That dude from Mississippi notnalc68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzier View Post
    Just curious, what’s the purpose of owning an AR anyway? Seems like a lousy choice for hunting or personal protection.


    Cheers.
    I have two. Locked in a safe. They’ve never hurt a soul.


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  8. #28
    Fresh Catch Wazzier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notnalc68 View Post
    I have two. Locked in a safe. They’ve never hurt a soul.


    Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
    Ya but why do you have two? I’m certainly not saying your wrong to own them, just curious why they are so popular. I have zero experience with it and never plan to.


    Cheers.

  9. #29
    Old Timer Jackal01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzier View Post
    Just curious, what’s the purpose of owning an AR anyway? Seems like a lousy choice for hunting or personal protection.


    Cheers.
    It is a fantastic choice for hunting, depending on the game. Hogs, coyote, etc. The AR platform isn't the first with a magazine so people arguing against it's ownership are silly and uninformed. There are a bunch of semi automatic rifles: M1 Garand, Mini 14, AK platform, AR10, M4, SKS, Mauser. All semi automatic rifles would have to banned. They all have detachable magazines. Shotguns and pistols can be semi automatic as well. The AR platform just has a trillion accessories and looks scary because the military uses it however they (branches world wide) use many of the examples listed above and others of course. Hell i have two AR rifles and they aren't even my preferred long gun. They are just cheap to build and marginally easier to shoot.
    Last edited by Jackal01; 02-16-2018 at 12:24 AM.

  10. #30
    That dude from Mississippi notnalc68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzier View Post
    Ya but why do you have two? I’m certainly not saying your wrong to own them, just curious why they are so popular. I have zero experience with it and never plan to.


    Cheers.
    They are really easy to shoot, with light recoil, and are a lot of fun. Mainly, because being libertarian, I believe in liberty. I have them, because I can. The Constitution protects my right to have them.


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