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Thread: Recent Shooting and Discussion

  1. #551
    Old Timer HighwayTrout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
    Do you really think so (I ask that sincerely, not sarcastically)? Everyone I know in the airline industry says it is crazy how many times the TSA fails to catch things in planned tests...and that is just the failures that are known about. They also say that if someone really wants to do something...it is going to happen. That said, I do feel safer with the new cockpit door protocols on US flights.
    I do. Really. You donít?

    Even how bad they are and miss items. Same could be said for every law enforcement/security agency world wide. Canít imagine how bad it would be with no security now.

    They are also correct. If someone wants to commit harm. They will find a way.
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  2. #552
    Old Timer fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
    Do you really think so (I ask that sincerely, not sarcastically)? Everyone I know in the airline industry says it is crazy how many times the TSA fails to catch things in planned tests...and that is just the failures that are known about. They also say that if someone really wants to do something...it is going to happen. That said, I do feel safer with the new cockpit door protocols on US flights.
    No system is fail safe but I do think the post-9/11 airline security measures have been effective, both to prevent and deter. Reasonable people can disagree about whether the associated extraordinary costs have been worth it.


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  3. #553
    Word Ninja Sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighwayTrout View Post
    I do. Really. You donít?

    Even how bad they are and miss items. Same could be said for every law enforcement/security agency world wide. Canít imagine how bad it would be with no security now.

    They are also correct. If someone wants to commit harm. They will find a way.
    Except for the cockpit door changes, I feel like most of it is smoke and mirrors to make people feel better. I've seen a variety of reports from 2017 indicating that TSA misses somewhere between 70-90% of the "mock weapons" sent through the system by undercover investigators for the OIG. That is considered an improvement over the 95% failure rate from 2015.

    Mind you, from what I have been told, the preplanned tests are favored towards detection. That doesn't exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
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  4. #554
    Old Timer fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
    Except for the cockpit door changes, I feel like most of it is smoke and mirrors to make people feel better. I've seen a variety of reports from 2017 indicating that TSA misses somewhere between 70-90% of the "mock weapons" sent through the system by undercover investigators for the OIG. That is considered an improvement over the 95% failure rate from 2015.

    Mind you, from what I have been told, the preplanned tests are favored towards detection. That doesn't exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
    I havenít seen the studies you cite. But even assuming they are what you say, they do not account for the deterrent effect. Remember the extraordinary amount of planning that Bin Laden and co went through to perpetuate the 9/11 attacks, and that was before all the post 9/11 security measures that have made it harder, but admittedly not impossible, to carry out a similar scheme. Itís no stretch to conclude that would-be terrorists will be looking for easier targets than highjacked airplanes.


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  5. #555
    Caught the Bug JK_0311's Avatar
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    Letís not forget that there were unsuccessful attempts on airlines with the TSA in place. The underwear bomber is one that comes to mind.

    The problem with the TSA is there is no oversight to them. They are the federal government, they supposedly check themselves, but really donít. So the TSA, I would argue, has done nothing. Kinda like my security sign in front of my house. Locking the cockpit is what is probably what has done it. Reference the Israelis. They locked their cockpits after hijackings. Then no more hijackings.

    The truth is that most of the shootings background checks would not have stopped them. Removing guns from the equation does not do any good, there are plenty of ways to commit mass murder. The real answer is probably educating our youth, parents being more aware and involved with their kids. Even then, shit still happens. Itís like saying, letís outlaw drugs...howís that going? Nurture is the best deterrence but even then nature (mental health) will have its way.

    We have had mass killings/murders in America, and across the world for that matter, for quite sometime. We just are now swarmed with it with the constant information overload now, 24/7 media and social networking.

    In America gun ownership is a right that has been given value as high as free speech and religion. Because the founders understood the importance of self defense and as importantly checking the govts power.

    The answer is to nurture our youth with education and a proper upbringing, but as mentioned, some of these killings are just the nature of the person committing the act.


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  6. #556
    Nothing but a Thing Honor2afault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JK_0311 View Post
    Letís not forget that there were unsuccessful attempts on airlines with the TSA in place. The underwear bomber is one that comes to mind.

    The problem with the TSA is there is no oversight to them. They are the federal government, they supposedly check themselves, but really donít. So the TSA, I would argue, has done nothing. Kinda like my security sign in front of my house. Locking the cockpit is what is probably what has done it. Reference the Israelis. They locked their cockpits after hijackings. Then no more hijackings.

    The truth is that most of the shootings background checks would not have stopped them. Removing guns from the equation does not do any good, there are plenty of ways to commit mass murder. The real answer is probably educating our youth, parents being more aware and involved with their kids. Even then, shit still happens. Itís like saying, letís outlaw drugs...howís that going? Nurture is the best deterrence but even then nature (mental health) will have its way.

    We have had mass killings/murders in America, and across the world for that matter, for quite sometime. We just are now swarmed with it with the constant information overload now, 24/7 media and social networking.

    In America gun ownership is a right that has been given value as high as free speech and religion. Because the founders understood the importance of self defense and as importantly checking the govts power.

    The answer is to nurture our youth with education and a proper upbringing, but as mentioned, some of these killings are just the nature of the person committing the act.


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  7. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by JK_0311 View Post
    Letís not forget that there were unsuccessful attempts on airlines with the TSA in place. The underwear bomber is one that comes to mind.

    The problem with the TSA is there is no oversight to them. They are the federal government, they supposedly check themselves, but really donít. So the TSA, I would argue, has done nothing. Kinda like my security sign in front of my house. Locking the cockpit is what is probably what has done it. Reference the Israelis. They locked their cockpits after hijackings. Then no more hijackings.

    The truth is that most of the shootings background checks would not have stopped them. Removing guns from the equation does not do any good, there are plenty of ways to commit mass murder. The real answer is probably educating our youth, parents being more aware and involved with their kids. Even then, shit still happens. Itís like saying, letís outlaw drugs...howís that going? Nurture is the best deterrence but even then nature (mental health) will have its way.

    We have had mass killings/murders in America, and across the world for that matter, for quite sometime. We just are now swarmed with it with the constant information overload now, 24/7 media and social networking.

    In America gun ownership is a right that has been given value as high as free speech and religion. Because the founders understood the importance of self defense and as importantly checking the govts power.

    The answer is to nurture our youth with education and a proper upbringing, but as mentioned, some of these killings are just the nature of the person committing the act.


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    i dont think it could have been stated better than this.

  8. #558
    Addict Brute's Avatar
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    My sisterís daughters high school in Highlands Ranch CO was just shot up...

    This shit has got to stop...we live in a fucked up world

    My niece is ok...trying to find out if any of her friends were shot

  9. #559
    Addict Brute's Avatar
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    My sisterís daughters high school in Highlands Ranch CO was just shot up...

    This shit has got to stop...we live in a fucked up world

    My niece is ok...trying to find out if any of her friends were shot

  10. #560
    Addict jesse3638's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brute View Post
    My sisterís daughters high school in Highlands Ranch CO was just shot up...

    This shit has got to stop...we live in a fucked up world

    My niece is ok...trying to find out if any of her friends were shot
    Glad she is OK. I agree something has got to change. I just don't know what. Prayers to everyone.

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