Bad Day on White Ridge Trail, Need Some Advise

Last Saturday eight Jeeps from our local club were 20 miles from pavement on the rarely traveled but very easy White Ridge trail off of Reddington Road, east of Tucson. The trail leader called on the CB and reported a problem so we all stopped and waited to hear what his issue was. He came back and let us know he had broken his axle and we would be there a while. I started to pull on up to him and when I put my 2011 JK back in gear, she wouldn’t roll, no gear forward or reverse. I tried everything, as you do in those situations, and finally gave up and got out to see if I could see a problem. A bunch of fluid on the ground under the rear diff was the first clue; the 1 inch jagged hole in the ARB diff cover was the second. I let the crew know I had a problem too and got out the tools.

I pulled the cover that revealed a real mess. The ten ½ inch ring gear bolts were all loose or completely out; 4 or 5 were laying in the bottom of the housing along with a huge pile of metal shavings, and the rest were jammed at an angle with a couple threads in the gear. One had blown the hole in the cover and worst of all, one bolt was jammed between the locker plate and the back of the ring gear jamming it against the pinion and housing. We were going to be there a while.

Ruby Fix-1065.jpg

I had just had a regear done in May by a very well respected local shop ( in business 45 years) that installed new 5.13 gears and the ARB locker when I put the Dynatrac ProRock 44 in the front. It looks like they had not torqued the bolts and there is no evidence of any thread locker. There is about 4000 miles on the diff since they rebuilt it.

I was on a pretty steep downhill in loose gravel and leaning to the left about fifteen degrees. We needed to clear the jammed bolt or she wasn’t going anywhere. I was running as the tailgunner so everyone was between me and the lead who also wasn’t going to move. Six Jeeps were stuck between us on the narrow trail. We tried for the next two hours to clear the bolt. We tried to drive forward/backward to clear it. The gear would turn about 5 degrees then lock up, no good. We tried jacking up the rear axle to get some leverage on the tires, back and forth, no good. We removed the rear drive shaft and tried turning the pinion yoke with a big lever arm, no good. We had to get down the hill on flat ground and get to a spot where the other Jeeps could get past me. So with the rear drive shaft out, we drove her forward about 30 yards using the front axle and just dragged the rear tires through the dirt to level ground where we could safely work on the Jeep.

The only thing we could think of was to pull the axles so we could remove the diff and get the damn bolt clear. We used every jack I carry and then some to raise the rear end so we could pull the axles. We had two floor jacks under the axle, my Hi-lift was on the left side rock sliders to level her, and my bottle jack was under the axle tube as a safety.

We pulled the tires, rotors and axles and pulled my buddies JK around behind her in order to use the winch to pull the diff out. The shop I used doesn’t use a spreader but instead machines a close tolerance spacer so we were able to pull it out without pulling the Jeep off the jacks. All the parts were really beat up but 4 hours after we stopped the bolt was clear. The initial plan was to clean it up and get it back together to at least hold the axles in place so we could drive out on the front wheels. We used a grinder that a guest had in his rig to level out all the torn up metal but we couldn’t find three good bolts to reinstall the ring gear. All the threads were chewed up too badly. We went after a couple of the best ones with thread files but no joy.

We were almost back together but were frustrated, it was hot, upper 90’s, no shade and we were starting to share water with folks who hadn’t planned on a long day in the sun. I felt terrible for the rest of the folks who were patiently waiting and helping with tools and moral support. The Tucson Rough Riders pride themselves on never leaving a member in the desert but this was way past what anyone should have to deal with. We were just about to the point of taking apart another D44 to scavenge a couple of bolts when The trail leader Jeff came up with the idea to bolt the two plates together without the ring gear. Did I mention that the guy whose axle was broken spent the day helping me instead of beating feet back to town to fix his own ride? He’s building up a fresh axle and we are going back out to do the swap this week.

We found two bolts that would work in the bottom of one of our tool bags, bolted it up, used a cutoff wheel that someone had to trim the bolts so they would fit, reinstalled the axles and brakes, put the tires back on, reinstalled the cover, filled the diff with a quart of fluid through the open hole, picked up all the tools and drove out.

Well it wasn’t quite that easy, a couple of the long hills were too steep for front wheel drive only, so I got a tug from my buddy. We had been out there since 9:00 am, it was 8:00 pm when we got the twenty miles back to cell coverage so I could call a tow truck.

So I told you all that to ask you guys “What the heck do I do now?” I don’t trust the yahoos that did the work any further than I can throw them. The whole housing is gouged and pretty much toast. All the bearings in the entire assembly have to have metal shavings in them. The ARB locker is full of metal. The ring gear looks like someone used it for target practice. I’m talking to them tomorrow.

I’ll add a lesson’s learned to this thread later but what should I do with the shop? I hate not being able to trust folks. I’d really appreciate any advice. Ask them to rebuild it again or say screw it and order a Pro Rock 60 from Dynatrac with money I don’t have?

Oh yeah, here’s the kicker. I just got back from a 2000 mile round trip to California where we ran the Rubicon. I hate to think what would have happened if she had locked up at speed on the 10.
 
Last edited:

BaddestCross

Active Member
First of all, glad you're okay and made it safely home. 🍻

I'd get the rig over to the shop immediately with all the photos taken and parts salvaged and give them the chance to make it right. If they've been in business that long, it's not because they do shit work or fuck over their customers on a regular basis.

--
Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
 
First of all, glad you're okay and made it safely home. 🍻

I'd give them the chance to make it right. If they've been in business that long, it's not because they do shit work or fuck over their customers on a regular basis.

--
Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407

Thanks! That was my first inclination. They were closed today or I would have been on their doorstep. I'll send them some photos in the morning and see what they say.

Cheers,
 

Seahawkfan

Hooked
Last Saturday eight Jeeps from our local club were 20 miles from pavement on the rarely traveled but very easy White Ridge trail off of Reddington Road, east of Tucson. The trail leader called on the CB and reported a problem so we all stopped and waited to hear what his issue was. He came back and let us know he had broken his axle and we would be there a while. I started to pull on up to him and when I put my 2011 JK back in gear, she wouldn’t roll, no gear forward or reverse. I tried everything, as you do in those situations, and finally gave up and got out to see if I could see a problem. A bunch of fluid on the ground under the rear diff was the first clue; the 1 inch jagged hole in the ARB diff cover was the second. I let the crew know I had a problem too and got out the tools.

I pulled the cover that revealed a real mess. The ten ½ inch ring gear bolts were all loose or completely out; 4 or 5 were laying in the bottom of the housing along with a huge pile of metal shavings, and the rest were jammed at an angle with a couple threads in the gear. One had blown the hole in the cover and worst of all, one bolt was jammed between the locker plate and the back of the ring gear jamming it against the pinion and housing. We were going to be there a while.

View attachment 310293

I had just had a regear done in May by a very well respected local shop ( in business 45 years) that installed new 5.13 gears and the ARB locker when I put the Dynatrac ProRock 44 in the front. It looks like they had not torqued the bolts and there is no evidence of any thread locker. There is about 4000 miles on the diff since they rebuilt it.

I was on a pretty steep downhill in loose gravel and leaning to the left about fifteen degrees. We needed to clear the jammed bolt or she wasn’t going anywhere. I was running as the tailgunner so everyone was between me and the lead who also wasn’t going to move. Six Jeeps were stuck between us on the narrow trail. We tried for the next two hours to clear the bolt. We tried to drive forward/backward to clear it. The gear would turn about 5 degrees then lock up, no good. We tried jacking up the rear axle to get some leverage on the tires, back and forth, no good. We removed the rear drive shaft and tried turning the pinion yoke with a big lever arm, no good. We had to get down the hill on flat ground and get to a spot where the other Jeeps could get past me. So with the rear drive shaft out, we drove her forward about 30 yards using the front axle and just dragged the rear tires through the dirt to level ground where we could safely work on the Jeep.

The only thing we could think of was to pull the axles so we could remove the diff and get the damn bolt clear. We used every jack I carry and then some to raise the rear end so we could pull the axles. We had two floor jacks under the axle, my Hi-lift was on the left side rock sliders to level her, and my bottle jack was under the axle tube as a safety.

We pulled the tires, rotors and axles and pulled my buddies JK around behind her in order to use the winch to pull the diff out. The shop I used doesn’t use a spreader but instead machines a close tolerance spacer so we were able to pull it out without pulling the Jeep off the jacks. All the parts were really beat up but 4 hours after we stopped the bolt was clear. The initial plan was to clean it up and get it back together to at least hold the axles in place so we could drive out on the front wheels. We used a grinder that a guest had in his rig to level out all the torn up metal but we couldn’t find three good bolts to reinstall the ring gear. All the threads were chewed up too badly. We went after a couple of the best ones with thread files but no joy.

We were almost back together but were frustrated, it was hot, upper 90’s, no shade and we were starting to share water with folks who hadn’t planned on a long day in the sun. I felt terrible for the rest of the folks who were patiently waiting and helping with tools and moral support. The Tucson Rough Riders pride themselves on never leaving a member in the desert but this was way past what anyone should have to deal with. We were just about to the point of taking apart another D44 to scavenge a couple of bolts when The trail leader Jeff came up with the idea to bolt the two plates together without the ring gear. Did I mention that the guy whose axle was broken spent the day helping me instead of beating feet back to town to fix his own ride? He’s building up a fresh axle and we are going back out to do the swap this week.

We found two bolts that would work in the bottom of one of our tool bags, bolted it up, used a cutoff wheel that someone had to trim the bolts so they would fit, reinstalled the axles and brakes, put the tires back on, reinstalled the cover, filled the diff with a quart of fluid through the open hole, picked up all the tools and drove out.

Well it wasn’t quite that easy, a couple of the long hills were too steep for front wheel drive only, so I got a tug from my buddy. We had been out there since 9:00 am, it was 8:00 pm when we got the twenty miles back to cell coverage so I could call a tow truck.

So I told you all that to ask you guys “What the heck do I do now?” I don’t trust the yahoos that did the work any further than I can throw them. The whole housing is gouged and pretty much toast. All the bearings in the entire assembly have to have metal shavings in them. The ARB locker is full of metal. The ring gear looks like someone used it for target practice. I’m talking to them tomorrow.

I’ll add a lesson’s learned to this thread later but what should I do with the shop? I hate not being able to trust folks. I’d really appreciate any advice. Ask them to rebuild it again or say screw it and order a Pro Rock 60 from Dynatrac with money I don’t have?

Oh yeah, here’s the kicker. I just got back from a 2000 mile round trip to California where we ran the Rubicon. I hate to think what would have happened if she had locked up at speed on the 10.


Sounds like a rough trip. Glad you got out ok. Did you happen to take it back in after break in. Not sure if they re check torque settings, It's been awhile. After 4000 miles not sure what they will say. Good luck
 

wjtstudios

Hooked
Tough day. Great job working thru it though. No matter how much you plan for trail repairs, sometimes crazy things like that happen! Glad you got it off the trail!


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WJCO

Meme King
Wow. What a story. Glad you're ok and the Jeepers you were with helped you out like that. There is more than enough photographic evidence that those bolts were not torqued correctly, especially since there are SEVERAL that came loose. I would be pissed and do everything in my power to make that shop pay for everything. That is clearly a fuckup due to workmanship. And NO, ring gear bolts shouldn't have to be re-checked for torque after any set mileage interval. You put locktite on them, torque them, and they should stay there indefinitely.
 

Mountainjk10

Caught the Bug
This is a good example of why you should always carry tools with you on a trail ride. Question tho, how did you keep fluid in the diff after you refilled it? Wasn’t there a hole in the cover?


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Seahawkfan

Hooked
Wow. What a story. Glad you're ok and the Jeepers you were with helped you out like that. There is more than enough photographic evidence that those bolts were not torqued correctly, especially since there are SEVERAL that came loose. I would be pissed and do everything in my power to make that shop pay for everything. That is clearly a fuckup due to workmanship. And NO, ring gear bolts shouldn't have to be re-checked for torque after any set mileage interval. You put locktite on them, torque them, and they should stay there indefinitely.

Thanks I wasn't sure. On the ring gear torque.
 

jdofmemi

Active Member
Ouch, sounds like a rough day.

As stated above, ring gear bolts are not something to re torque. Put them in once, right, and they stay put.

Also as stated, I would take it back and let the shop have a chance to make it right. Be sure to have them check everything, show you everything, and explain what they are doing to make sure it is right. The housing could be ruined. Not likely but possible.

I had a Toyota rear do the same thing, but at speed on a desert road. On a large bump, one of the bolts laying on the bottom apparently bounced yp and ran BETWEEN the ring gear and the pinion. This spread the bearing retainers significantly, to the point they would not fit through the hole in the housing. (Toyota has a drop in third member) I share this so you can make sure that your housing is not bent at the bearing retainers. If so, the housing is junk. It sounds like the bolt was just caught between the gear and housing, so you may not have that problem, but it does need checked.

I had over a year on mine, and the shop said too bad, so sad.

I'm glad you were with a good group who got you going. Sounds like a long day, but a memorable one.
 
Question tho, how did you keep fluid in the diff after you refilled it? Wasn’t there a hole in the cover?


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Ruby Fix-1078.jpg

HI, completely agree on the tools, I'll be adding a few I didn't have. A lightweight floor jack and Milwaukee Impact are high on my list. The hole was high enough that I thought we could get it out if we took it easy. There was no gear to throw the oil around anyway and it wasn't under load with the driveshaft out anyway. I stopped a few times to check if the axle bearings were getting hot. In retrospect we should have taped it up. We were going to fill it with JB weld put decided to just go for it. It wasn't like I was worried about screwing up the diff any worse. ;-)
 
Sounds like a rough trip. Glad you got out ok. Did you happen to take it back in after break in. Not sure if they re check torque settings, It's been awhile. After 4000 miles not sure what they will say. Good luck


Thanks, They specifically recommended no fluid change until after 12,000 miles, which I thought was a crock. I changed the fluid at 1000 miles just before the trip to the Rubicon anyway. I didn't remove the cover, just drained and refilled, but I checked the magnet on the drain plug and it was clear so all the damage happened recently. Lesson learned, next time the cover is coming off and Im checking the torque, but I would have never thought to do that before.
 
Wow, what an ordeal! Hope it gets resolved. Sounds like you wheel with a bunch of stand up guys [emoji1303]


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Yes sir! The Tucson Rough Riders are a great group, about 120 members strong, they've been together since the 70's. We spend most of our energy working to keep trails open and promoting family wheeling. Luckily for me we had two great mechanics and enough tools. I was a A&P mechanic way back in the day so I know which end of the wrench to hold, but it was there Jeep knowledge that got us out.
 

fiend

Caught the Bug
What a story. Yet one more sobering example of why one shouldn’t wheel alone.

I would take it back to the shop and see what they say.
 

TrailHunter

Hooked
That’s crazy... like others said, glad you got out. You never heard or felt anything weird prior to the final seize? A slight grind, clunk, whine, etc. ? There were Zero warning signs?
 
Tough day. Great job working thru it though. No matter how much you plan for trail repairs, sometimes crazy things like that happen! Glad you got it off the trail!


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Thanks! There were a bunch of times I thought we'd have to leave her, but I didn't know what I'd bring back to get her out, and there was no way to get a flat bed back there, we couldn't tow her because she couldn't roll, so we just kept trying.
 
What a story. Yet one more sobering example of why one shouldn’t wheel alone.

I would take it back to the shop and see what they say.

Amen to that!

That’s crazy... like others said, glad you got out. You never heard or felt anything weird prior to the final seize? A slight grind, clunk, whine, etc. ? There were Zero warning signs?

I never heard a sound, no warning signs that I could make out. My Jeep has a Rock Krawler lift which isn't that quiet anyway, a little sqeaky so I may not have noticed if she was trying to tell me
 
Wow. What a story. Glad you're ok and the Jeepers you were with helped you out like that. There is more than enough photographic evidence that those bolts were not torqued correctly, especially since there are SEVERAL that came loose. I would be pissed and do everything in my power to make that shop pay for everything. That is clearly a fuckup due to workmanship. And NO, ring gear bolts shouldn't have to be re-checked for torque after any set mileage interval. You put locktite on them, torque them, and they should stay there indefinitely.

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure about the Locktite but it only makes sense. And you're right, they all came loose, it wasn't just a couple. I'll send them the pictures in an hour or so, they are closed on Monday, we'll see what they say.
 

Judesign

Caught the Bug
Wow what a story. I’ve never seen a diff grenade like that. Can’t imagine the force generated to blow a hole in a cover like that. I’m interested to hear how this turns out and what the shop will do for you.


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98XJ06LJ

New member
I think by now you already know your first course of action. I agree completely with the fact that this is clearly a labor error not a part failure.

Start with pictures and a phone call, if that doesn't go the way you want then go there in person and speak straight to the owner. Typically the owner of a business has a different view on taking care of their customers than an employee.

Also, don't start out letting them know you are thinking of going to a 60. Just tell them you want this resolved. If they know you are thinking of going to a 60 from the start it gives them a way to make more money from you out of this.

Make them commit to fixing the problem and that it will be a 100% warranty repair before talking about upgrades. This should be 0 dollars out of your pocket, unless you change what parts are going back in.

Good luck! Glad you had good friends on the trail with you!

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