Steering upgrade opinions

desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
I have been on the fence about wanting to do steering upgrades for a while now and just looking for some advice / opinions.

Running stock steering box, Exodus aluminum drag link and tie rod. 37x13.5 Cooper's.

I typically wheel solo so breaking a sector shaft is always on my mind so I have had my eye on the big bore. I really don't think I need the hydro assist with the way I wheel but by the time I do the big bore and pump it's damn near the same price.
Part of the appeal for me not doing hydro right now is that I can do the work myself. (my PR44 had a hydro bracket that I cut off during initial setup when I wasn't running a DL flip. So I'd need to get new tabs welded on.) I know the big bore doesn't absolutely require the PSC pump but I feel like while I'm in there I might as well do the pump too.

I keep talking myself in circles and reading thread after thread still hasn't helped maybe someone has a new opinion since the big bore has been out a while now that will help.

This jeep will eventually be on tons and 40s but that's so far down the line that saving the money on the ported version now might actually get me pull the trigger for my current set up.

Idk, what's the current climate on the big bore vs stock box hydro assist argument?

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Ddays

Ddays

Hooked
Just to add to the confusion, have you considered the Redneck Ram setup? An awful lot of guys run that setup and in your case it'd hold you over til you're ready for tons.:twocents:
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
Ddays said:
Just to add to the confusion, have you considered the Redneck Ram setup? An awful lot of guys run that setup and in your case it'd hold you over til you're ready for tons.:twocents:
Click to expand...
Yes I have and only because of the price. I could get a redneck ram for cheaper than a big bore and PSC pump. My reservation is I don't think I need hydro and I'd have to find a welder I trust where the big bore is bolt in. Just added logistics to get it done.
I'm not sure how common a sector shaft break is but I have seen enough on here that it gets me thinking.... I imagine if you hit something fast enough you can still break a sector shaft with hydro but I dont typically bomb through things.

Why I keep going in circles is sector shaft break is on my mind so go big bore, but for the price I could go hydro. Hydro is better for steering but do I need it, no....

Maybe I'm too concerned about sector shaft break but because I'm often out solo I'm less of a run it until it breaks then upgrade kinda guy.

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wjtstudios

wjtstudios

Hooked
The great thing with the PSC is you can build it in stages to help with the cost. Get the big bore ported, it works well without the pump and is definitely better than stock. Plus the safety of the larger selector shaft. You can always add the pump and ram down the road if you see the need, especially with 1 tons.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
 
R

red84cj7

New member
Excuse me if this is a stupid question because I know absolutely nothing about big bore and/or hydro costs, but is a sector shaft brace not a consideration as a bridge until you do the tons down the road?

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Mile High JK

Mile High JK

Member
wjtstudios said:
The great thing with the PSC is you can build it in stages to help with the cost. Get the big bore ported, it works well without the pump and is definitely better than stock. Plus the safety of the larger selector shaft. You can always add the pump and ram down the road if you see the need, especially with 1 tons.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
Click to expand...

This is the route I went. If I ever add the ram and pump it will have cost a little more in the long run. Right now on my 37s I don't see myself upgrading though.
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
wjtstudios said:
The great thing with the PSC is you can build it in stages to help with the cost. Get the big bore ported, it works well without the pump and is definitely better than stock. Plus the safety of the larger selector shaft. You can always add the pump and ram down the road if you see the need, especially with 1 tons.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
Click to expand...
Ultimately I think this is what I am going to do. It's a bolt in upgrade that I can handle, it relieves me of worrying about the sector shaft and I have the funds for the ported big bore. Where I get hung up is while I'm going through the ass pain of swapping boxes I might as well do the pump which drives the cost over 2k which is well into hydro territory so....

I have read your posts over and over trying to convince myself the big bore is fine with the stock pump and idk why I cant come to terms with just trying it. Did you do anything to add fluid to the system? Like a bigger reservoir or just full stock set up just big bore?
And did you do a full swepco flush and everything when you swapped the box?

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jdofmemi

jdofmemi

Active Member
red84cj7 said:
Excuse me if this is a stupid question because I know absolutely nothing about big bore and/or hydro costs, but is a sector shaft brace not a consideration as a bridge until you do the tons down the road?

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Click to expand...

Not a stupid question, but one many wonder about.

The brace will not strengthen the sector shaft, but will help keep the frame from flexing under load from the steering box by bracing the shaft to the frame.
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
red84cj7 said:
Excuse me if this is a stupid question because I know absolutely nothing about big bore and/or hydro costs, but is a sector shaft brace not a consideration as a bridge until you do the tons down the road?

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Click to expand...
I briefly looked into the synergy one but it works with their trackbar bracket and trackbar which I don't have any of so the cost is a wash to just get the big bore.

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wjtstudios

wjtstudios

Hooked
desertrunner said:
Ultimately I think this is what I am going to do. It's a bolt in upgrade that I can handle, it relieves me of worrying about the sector shaft and I have the funds for the ported big bore. Where I get hung up is while I'm going through the ass pain of swapping boxes I might as well do the pump which drives the cost over 2k which is well into hydro territory so....

I have read your posts over and over trying to convince myself the big bore is fine with the stock pump and idk why I cant come to terms with just trying it. Did you do anything to add fluid to the system? Like a bigger reservoir or just full stock set up just big bore?
And did you do a full swepco flush and everything when you swapped the box?

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Click to expand...

No, I just put the big bore in, bled the system and it worked great. I did do the swepco flush with the first swap to clear all the old fluid out. Now I will only run swepco.

I did the big bore first and drive it for a year, it is a noticeable improvement turning the 37s on the rocks and in sand. Make sure you’ve upgraded your drag link, the added stress of the big bore will bend the OEM DL.

I added the pump, cooler and upgraded line sets second. It is a bit more responsive at low rpm with the pump, but not a noticeable difference. I added that to get ready for the Ram.

Adding the ram, and your not going to want to hear this, makes a massive difference whether you are turning in a parking lot, cruising down the road, or on the rocks. I do regret not doing it sooner, but it is a budget thing and the process I went through was the right solution for me over time. Today, I’m in a different place and would have just bit the bullet and done it all at once.

Hope this helps,


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
wjtstudios said:
No, I just put the big bore in, bled the system and it worked great. I did do the swepco flush with the first swap to clear all the old fluid out. Now I will only run swepco.

I did the big bore first and drive it for a year, it is a noticeable improvement turning the 37s on the rocks and in sand. Make sure you’ve upgraded your drag link, the added stress of the big bore will bend the OEM DL.

I added the pump, cooler and upgraded line sets second. It is a bit more responsive at low rpm with the pump, but not a noticeable difference. I added that to get ready for the Ram.

Adding the ram, and your not going to want to hear this, makes a massive difference whether you are turning in a parking lot, cruising down the road, or on the rocks. I do regret not doing it sooner, but it is a budget thing and the process I went through was the right solution for me over time. Today, I’m in a different place and would have just bit the bullet and done it all at once.

Hope this helps,


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
Click to expand...
It does, a lot, thank you. And I do have Bubba's aluminum drag link that I'm sure will do just fine.

The ported big bore is still more expensive than a red neck ram but for some of the reasons above a bolt on upgrade is more where I'm at right now. I have no doubt the ram is a huge difference but I'm far from needing it and would like some better options for welding shops once I move or wait until tons happen before taking that step.

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wjtstudios

wjtstudios

Hooked
desertrunner said:
It does, a lot, thank you. And I do have Bubba's aluminum drag link that I'm sure will do just fine.

The ported big bore is still more expensive than a red neck ram but for some of the reasons above a bolt on upgrade is more where I'm at right now. I have no doubt the ram is a huge difference but I'm far from needing it and would like some better options for welding shops once I move or wait until tons happen before taking that step.

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Click to expand...

I’d wait for the 1 tons unless you find you need the ram sooner. No sense in having the tabs welded on twice.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
 
A.J.

A.J.

Active Member
desertrunner said:
It does, a lot, thank you. And I do have Bubba's aluminum drag link that I'm sure will do just fine.

The ported big bore is still more expensive than a red neck ram but for some of the reasons above a bolt on upgrade is more where I'm at right now. I have no doubt the ram is a huge difference but I'm far from needing it and would like some better options for welding shops once I move or wait until tons happen before taking that step.

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Click to expand...

Get the ported big bore box and just use the stock pump. Change the fluid while your at it. Easy bolt on upgrade. Make sure you bleed the system properly and you’ll be happy for a long time. If the pump ever dies upgrade it then.


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Ddays

Ddays

Hooked
Mile High JK said:
This is the route I went. If I ever add the ram and pump it will have cost a little more in the long run. Right now on my 37s I don't see myself upgrading though.
Click to expand...

wjtstudios said:
No, I just put the big bore in, bled the system and it worked great. I did do the swepco flush with the first swap to clear all the old fluid out. Now I will only run swepco.

I did the big bore first and drive it for a year, it is a noticeable improvement turning the 37s on the rocks and in sand. Make sure you’ve upgraded your drag link, the added stress of the big bore will bend the OEM DL.

I added the pump, cooler and upgraded line sets second. It is a bit more responsive at low rpm with the pump, but not a noticeable difference. I added that to get ready for the Ram.

Adding the ram, and your not going to want to hear this, makes a massive difference whether you are turning in a parking lot, cruising down the road, or on the rocks. I do regret not doing it sooner, but it is a budget thing and the process I went through was the right solution for me over time. Today, I’m in a different place and would have just bit the bullet and done it all at once.

Hope this helps,


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
Click to expand...

wjtstudios said:
I’d wait for the 1 tons unless you find you need the ram sooner. No sense in having the tabs welded on twice.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
Click to expand...

What WJT said. I know you said you don't need the hydro because you're only on 37's, but if you drove a Jeep with a hydro setup you'd think otherwise. If you're def gonna do tons I'd do the Big bore box ported. Then when you upgrade you're halfway there.

One thing on the drag link: Unless you're running a high steer setup, you may have to run the factory drag link. With the Dynatrac D60 front, they include an extension buckle so you can use the factory link. I had a Rare parts aluminum DL but can't re-use it because of clearance issues. There isn't enough real estate for the bar and end to fit on the knuckle.
I'm not overly worried about it - Rubicat ran that setup with hydro and there are a lot of others running the factory link. Spares for those are cheap too.

I circled the Dynatrac knuckle on Rubicat below

rubicat.jpg
 
TrailHunter

TrailHunter

Hooked
wjtstudios said:
No, I just put the big bore in, bled the system and it worked great. I did do the swepco flush with the first swap to clear all the old fluid out. Now I will only run swepco.

I did the big bore first and drive it for a year, it is a noticeable improvement turning the 37s on the rocks and in sand. Make sure you’ve upgraded your drag link, the added stress of the big bore will bend the OEM DL.

I added the pump, cooler and upgraded line sets second. It is a bit more responsive at low rpm with the pump, but not a noticeable difference. I added that to get ready for the Ram.

Adding the ram, and your not going to want to hear this, makes a massive difference whether you are turning in a parking lot, cruising down the road, or on the rocks. I do regret not doing it sooner, but it is a budget thing and the process I went through was the right solution for me over time. Today, I’m in a different place and would have just bit the bullet and done it all at once.

Hope this helps,


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
Click to expand...

I'm real close to starting this exact process... I'm only on 35's... but they are TG's with Slabs and I know that has to be putting stress on the sector shaft and it scares me. I would only add the Ram IF I jump to 37's.... but I don't think that will be any time soon.
 
BaddestCross

BaddestCross

Active Member
I did the Redneck Ram with the PSC bolt-on bracket for the cylinder. It's one of those things that you do and wonder why you didn't do it sooner. The stock pump and steering gear work fine.

Although it would work better if Bubba ever sends me the new pulley. [emoji12]



--
Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
Ddays said:
What WJT said. I know you said you don't need the hydro because you're only on 37's, but if you drove a Jeep with a hydro setup you'd think otherwise. If you're def gonna do tons I'd do the Big bore box ported. Then when you upgrade you're halfway there.

One thing on the drag link: Unless you're running a high steer setup, you may have to run the factory drag link. With the Dynatrac D60 front, they include an extension buckle so you can use the factory link. I had a Rare parts aluminum DL but can't re-use it because of clearance issues. There isn't enough real estate for the bar and end to fit on the knuckle.
I'm not overly worried about it - Rubicat ran that setup with hydro and there are a lot of others running the factory link. Spares for those are cheap too.

I circled the Dynatrac knuckle on Rubicat below

View attachment 346349
Click to expand...

haha i have never driven a jeep with hydro assist and im afraid if i do thats all im going to want. Its not that i dont need hydro for the 37s, i just havnt really gotten this jeep out on a regular basis running hard trails in the rocks to feel like i need more turning power. it might have helped in Moab a few times but i got by without it. Id like to keep the option open for hydro since i want it eventually so i think the ported big bore is the route im going to take.

As far as the clearance issue on your D60, i am only running a PR44 and when i go tons i plan to strip most of it for a fresh start and hopefully coilovers so i will cross that bridge when it comes.
 
desertrunner

desertrunner

Active Member
wjtstudios said:
Yes , very noticeable. But once you are fully bound up on rocks or sand it won’t help you like a Ram would.


2015 JKUR AEV JK350
1985 CJ8 Scrambler
Click to expand...
Would you say it's worth while to do it just in 1 shot while I'm in there replacing the box?
I have the funds to do the full kit at once and I'm just gonna drop the idea of putting hydro assist on this axle for now.

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