idler pulley melting help me please.....

ok about a month ago i was in the woods in some mud for maybe 20 mins and i noticed power steering went out and ac wasnt cold anymore . so i stopped turned off engine thinking the belt came off. lifted hood and the belt was shreaded because it had slide off the idler pulley inbetween the engine and the pulley.i inspected the pulley and the side against the engine was grinded down about 3/8 of a inch making it narrower than the belt, and im guessing thats why it slipped off the the idler pulley. but i couldnt figure out why the pullry was worndown on that one side like that, there is nothing close enough for it to hit to wear perfectly like it did . it almost looked like it was kinda melted. but i said to hell with it replaced the idler pulley and the belt, and i was moving again. last weekend i pulled my atv out to the same trails where my belt broke before in my jeep, long story short buried my honda rancher in a mud hole so bad i had to get my jeep drive it back there and used my jeeps winch to pull it out. got it out and headed back out of woods , and power steering and ac stop working, and i say theres no way that shit happen again. i wasnt even wheelin it, sure enough same thing happen , melted down looking idler pulley followed by broken belt. so if any body has any advice for me it would be great cause im afraid to go off road without 2 sets of extra belts and pulleys. i cant figure it it happened again in less than a month...:thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking:

now this is interesting.... i would love to see pic's of this. I have never heard of this specific problem; but i would bet something else is broken other then what you see as the obvious

the first time it happen i kept the pulley ill just have to find it in the garage and ill try to post some pics , i dont have the best luck uploading pictures. the second time ithappen i was so pissed that that pulley mightstill be air borne from how far i threw that guy. hate that i littered but it was a crime of passion at that moment. the only thing i could think of is that maybe the heat from the engine slowly melt that side of the pulley being that its made of plastic, cause around that time i had problems with my fan and the engine was getting extra hot. but i think thats a long shot. but if i can ever find somewhere on line that sells a metal idler pulley for my 07 jk i could put that long shot theory to the test maybe. what do u think?

Well let me be more specific. I don't think seeing the actual failed pulley off the jeep will help. its the whole setup that i would need to see, but even in pic's its really not going to help. what i think may be going on is something i need to touch and examine.

This is where im going with this. Maybe a bad motor mount is allowing the motor to move into somewhere that grinds down the idler pulley and belt to a point where it makes the belt fail. You only see the idler and belt failure but not the root problem.

This is just a guess, but its a good guess that there is a root problem that you are not seeing

Actually pics would be really helpful. If you could show the position of the belt as it sits on the idler pulley after you have ran it for a while and then shut the motor down. I know I will be Captain Obvious here, but this is the only way i can clearly explain it (maybe ?) Here is one way the idler pulley can get bearing failure, which is what it sounds like for you; The serpentine belt will pretty much always be centered on the power steering pulley to a certain degree because the center of the pulley is recessed and grooved. And the lip on the edges of the pulley keep it in the recess....unless, for example the pulley is- 1) either not pressed on to its output shaft far enough or 2) pressed too far on to the shaft and sitting too close to the pump. When the belt gets misaligned, it will wear one edge of the belt quickly by contacting the lip of the recessed pulley and riding on the sharper edge of the lip, which will end up shredding it. I think this is why your belt is shredding. If the pulleys are so far away, or too close, to the component (power steering pump) it can make the belt place a high amount of torque on one side of the idler pulley causing premature bearing failure. This may be why you are melting an idler pulley.

You will need a Mopar/Chrysler/Dodge style pulley "puller/installer". Different mfg's have different style pulleys, but you can get a universal kit with parts for all mfg's in one box if you can't find the specific Mopar one. You use the pulley puller to slide the pulley on the output shaft away from the pump, do this if the front edge of the serpentine belt (towards bumper) is worn or frayed. If the pulley is adjust too far away from the component, the rear edge of the belt (towards the engine block) will be frayed or worn, just take a mallet/ rubber hammer and tap the pulley on to the output shaft until it looks like the serpentine belt is running true and straight.

In either circumstance above when the pulley is too close, or too far, from the pump you should be able to observe one of these or all; see a slight bow in the belt, see that it's not in the center of the idler or see the beginnings of worn or frayed edges of the serpentine belt. Bottom line if the pulleys aren't centered it will cause belt failure and bearing failure on pulleys and components.

Hope this was understandable. What are your questions?

What would cause a pulley to become misaligned in the first place to cause the initial problem. Im assuming he had not ever touched the engine; this may be my mistake. Please tell us if you ever messed with the engine components prior to any problems.

Army_Vet said:

What would cause a pulley to become misaligned in the first place to cause the initial problem. Im assuming he had not ever touched the engine; this may be my mistake. Please tell us if you ever messed with the engine components prior to any problems.

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Man, who knows? It could be just a loose bolt on the font of the power steering pump or the idler pulley itself. It could even be something as serious as you pointed out, an entire component that runs off the serpentine belt is not properly tightened or attached causing things to contact something it shouldn't be. Not sure if bad/lose motor mounts would come into play as the entirety of the whole motor would move as one......unless that is causing the contacting of parts. But a broken or loose motor mount will manifest itself in other ways that would be felt and heard.

It's hard diagnosing this over the Internet :icon_crazy: this is something you need to see while the motor is running.

Edit: I'm calling you Mark now. Haha!

GCM 2 said:

Man, who knows? It could be just a loose bolt on the font of the power steering pump or the idler pulley itself. It could even be something as serious as you pointed out, an entire component that runs off the serpentine belt is not properly tightened or attached causing things to contact something it shouldn't be. Not sure if bad/lose motor mounts would come into play as the entirety of the whole motor would move as one......unless that is causing the contacting of parts. But a broken or loose motor mount will manifest itself in other ways that would be felt and heard.

It's hard diagnosing this over the Internet :icon_crazy: this is something you need to see while the motor is running.

Edit: I'm calling you Mark now. Haha!

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No I haven't changed any components that run with the belt. and so u know which pulley I mean its not the one that is on the end of the tensioner but the one that is just a idler pulley on the engine inline inbetween the alternator and the power steering pulley. I guess the question now is outside of the part feeling or looking loose. how can I tell if any of these parts are bad. how tightshould the belt be

a/c comp. purges when i turn ac system on

now every time I turn the ac on the comp.purges I guesss the ac was getting to hot and it wants to releasae the pressure

LIKEITHIGH said:

now every time I turn the ac on the comp.purges I guesss the ac was getting to hot and it wants to releasae the pressure

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Maybe the freon level is to high? Did u add any?

yes I did but will it keep doing the purge till its at the right level or should I empty the Freon and refill to proper level. I sure hope its something like that I don't have $ 400 to drop on new compressor.

LIKEITHIGH said:

yes I did but will it keep doing the purge till its at the right level or should I empty the Freon and refill to proper level. I sure hope its something like that I don't have $ 400 to drop on new compressor.

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It's purging because there is to much pressure. I would bet it's cycling very fast. It could damage the compressor. What I would do is not use the ac, take it to an ac shop, have it evacuated, vacuumed and recharged to the right level.
I think the ac is way over charged, putting alot more strain on the compressor causing the belt to have an abnormal load and the plastic pulley is the one taking the abuse...
U don't want to end up in the carnage thread with this now do u?!? :what:

LIKEITHIGH said:

yes I did but will it keep doing the purge till its at the right level or should I empty the Freon and refill to proper level. I sure hope its something like that I don't have $ 400 to drop on new compressor.

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I think we found the problem.... The ac comp; for whatever reason is causing such a drag on the other parts it must be what is the root problem. Not saying im right; but its quacking like a duck soooooo I think its a duck.
I have seen this happen in many other types of vehicles. but all others had metal pulleys so it would only shred the belt, not melt the pulley...

is there any way I can empty the Freon from the a/c? but if I had to I guess ill take it to a shop to be done. It just kills me to pay someone else to do what I could do if I had the proper equipment. another thing if the engine is starting to get hot like it did on me last night because my radiators fins r clogged with mud and I was working the engine pretty hard to get through this stretch of trail that was some deep mud. but when it was starting to get hotter I turn the ac on and it immediately started purging so I turned it off and a minute later try it again by turning it on and it started purging again til I turned the ac off. basically if the engines to hot for the ac will it purge like this or does it sound like its the compressor going bad?

If your radiator is clogged with mud so is your a/c condenser causing high head pressure problems for the compressor. Don't run your a/c until you get it thoroughly cleaned. Use a low pressure water stream and brush with soapy water to accomplish this. Your compressor may not be bad and this cleaning will help determine if it is or not. Do not release your freon to the atmosphere, EPA fines for that are more than you can afford for negligent release. This is not likely the reason for your pulley failure however.

I was thinking since it happened twice in the same woods and not between trips it could be gnomes, but then you said it was quacking like a duck and ruined my theory. Sorry no help

LIKEITHIGH said:

is there any way I can empty the Freon from the a/c? but if I had to I guess ill take it to a shop to be done. It just kills me to pay someone else to do what I could do if I had the proper equipment. another thing if the engine is starting to get hot like it did on me last night because my radiators fins r clogged with mud and I was working the engine pretty hard to get through this stretch of trail that was some deep mud. but when it was starting to get hotter I turn the ac on and it immediately started purging so I turned it off and a minute later try it again by turning it on and it started purging again til I turned the ac off. basically if the engines to hot for the ac will it purge like this or does it sound like its the compressor going bad?

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Its so funny learning the whole story a lil at a time.....
the ac system depends on a clean evaporator which depends on good airflow to work properly. If we had photos we may have seen this right off. But on a forum anything you say I imagine it is a clean and good like when I was in school. Please do not release freon into the atmosphere. take it to a shop first

ok im laying all my problems out im not a nechanic by far but im not an idiot either. if my belt were loose because of the tensioner maybe or for some other reason could it cause my ac to act like it is , my belt jump off track, my engine start to overheat. also my fan wasn't coming on propably the relay, so I wired it to a switch on high speed, being I was not in town. but today I as driving down rod bout 35 with the fan on and it started to get hot. I have already replaced the thermostat and water pump and flushed system. I have right amount of antifreeze in system. being my jeeps an 07 do you think deposits could already be built up inside radiator slowing down flow. im not sure how hard water should be flowing out radiator during flush it seemed like I remember it flowing a little harder on other vehicles.oh yeah one more thing should I be able to pull the tensioner with a standard size socket wrench pretty easy or should it be very hard to move . thaks for all your help.

Visually inspect the belt tensioner for misalignment caused by a worn spring loading mechanism. This condition is visible at the pivot point of the tensioner, and the separation of the two halves of the tensioner can be easily seen with the naked eye.

Check spring loading of the belt by looking at the tension gauge cast into the two halves of the tensioner. The inner piece will have two arrows cast into the metal, and the outer piece will have one arrow cast into the metal. The outer arrow should point between the two inner arrows. If the arrows are not lined up properly, replace the belt.

With a wrench, check the tensioner for binding. If the tensioner is released and does not return to its original position, replace the tensioner.

Remove the belt by compressing the tensioner and slipping the belt off the pulley. Spin the pulley while listening and feeling for roughness. Any rough noise or vibration will be amplified when the pulley is under tension. Replace the pulley if these symptoms occur.

How easy you can pull it is hard to judge over the internet. but no it should not be easy, but not too hard. Its kinda hard to describe....