Recent Shooting and Discussion

JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
I agree with some and disagree with others. Sometime disagreeing and agreeing with the same person.

I am a parent of two awesome kids who will be starting high school next year. It literally sickens my stomach to see what is happening in their world. Doing nothing shouldn't be an option anymore. This violence is happening far to often.

Thanks to brute and sharkey for putting real thoughts out there. Uncomfortable discussions need to happen and real solutions need to put on the table. It's too late for the 17+ who died yesterday. Next it could be my kid, or maybe someone you love.

Thoughts and prayers won't matter to me then.
 
Brute

Brute

Hooked
JAGS said:
I agree with some and disagree with others. Sometime disagreeing and agreeing with the same person.

I am a parent of two awesome kids who will be starting high school next year. It literally sickens my stomach to see what is happening in their world. Doing nothing shouldn't be an option anymore. This violence is happening far to often.

Thanks to brute and sharkey for putting real thoughts out there. Uncomfortable discussions need to happen and real solutions need to put on the table. It's too late for the 17+ who died yesterday. Next it could be my kid, or maybe someone you love.

Thoughts and prayers won't matter to me then.
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Roger that...
 
PatyWagon

PatyWagon

New member
IMHO We should all grieve the children lost, not give the shooter his 15 minutes, not take away guns (majority of people do use correctly), strive to identify those who should not have guns/weapons, realize that if someone wants to hurt/maim/kill they will find a way, and not have gun free zones (it's like serving up those in churches or schools to be hurt by the monsters). Establish safeguards in place. Need to make it harder for someone with problems to get their hands on a weapon and easier to get them immediately into treatment. Just my opinion.

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dwvninety

dwvninety

New member
In a DUI we blame the driver, in a bombing we blame the bomber, in the event where someone uses the vehicle as a weapon to mow down crowds we blame the person, in a shooting we blame the gun and gun makers :grayno:
 
catahoula

catahoula

Caught the Bug
Praying does not cure or help prevent this. Religion has caused so many deaths. It is not the liberals or conservatives. It is a fucking person with issues. There is one member on here that will comment with his religious bullshit and then be gone. I will be nice and not say his username, BUT it starts with a "G". It is everybody as a whole that needs to work together to find a solution to this. If I have truly offended anyone you can fuck off! Now back to my coffee.
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
TLife said:
Just asking for a friend: what are the specifics of these gun control laws we’re arguing about?


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I posted the law earlier above. I wouldn't call it a gun control law, I would call it a gun freedom law. It was put into law in 1791. 'The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

Seems simple enough to me. Not sure why so many people argue about it nowadays either. :idontknow:
 
TLife

TLife

Member
QuicksilverJK said:
That's the thing, there is never any specifics. The plan is chip away a little and when that doesn't solve the problem (because it's not the problem) take more, and more until we have lost our right completely.
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So without any specifics you know it's wrong because it's a "slippery slope". That certainly doesn't leave much room for discussion.
 
TLife

TLife

Member
WJCO said:
I posted the law earlier above. I wouldn't call it a gun control law, I would call it a gun freedom law. It was put into law in 1791. 'The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

Seems simple enough to me. Not sure why so many people argue about it nowadays either. :idontknow:
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So you would argue that any person should be allowed to own any gun? I'll be the first to admit that I'm woefully ignorant on current gun laws, but I know there's more to it than that.

Let's say that I've been previously convicted of armed robbery and served my jail time. Should I be allowed to legally own a gun?
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
TLife said:
So you would argue that any person should be allowed to own any gun? I'll be the first to admit that I'm woefully ignorant on current gun laws, but I know there's more to it than that.

Let's say that I've been previously convicted of armed robbery and served my jail time. Should I be allowed to legally own a gun?
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There will always be unique cases that will bring up your exact question. And truthfully I would argue that each case needs to be examined carefully. There are many stories of criminals that do their time and re-offend and there are many stories of criminals who do their time and change for the better.

On the flip side, I have a personal friend who got in an argument with his ex-girlfriend 20+ years ago and threw a plate against the wall not even in her direction. She called the police, and my friend was charged with a domestic violence misdemeanor. To this day, the law says he cannot own a gun because of that incident.

Here's what I will argue for. The government passing more gun laws to limit or reduce the weapon itself is not a solution. With several hundred million gun owners in this country, we do not see several hundred shootings. The majority of gun owners are responsible. Even if guns were banned completely, evil criminal people will still find a way to get them or carry out their evil in another way. Criminal nature of the individual is the problem, not the gun itself. Thousands were killed on 911 without a single gun used as an example.
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
Change is usually uncomfortable. Anyone mention the guy was an active member of multiple white supremacy hate groups? Asking for a relative. Or is that a touchy subject since we're 7+ pages in?

I'll just leave this here.


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jasont0311

jasont0311

Caught the Bug
TLife said:
So you would argue that any person should be allowed to own any gun? I'll be the first to admit that I'm woefully ignorant on current gun laws, but I know there's more to it than that.

Let's say that I've been previously convicted of armed robbery and served my jail time. Should I be allowed to legally own a gun?
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If you were convicted of armed robbery you would be a felon and would not be able to legally own a gun.
 
SoCalJeepster

SoCalJeepster

New member
TrailHunter said:
You make some really good points. It’s definitely not black & white. And the AR may be “part” of the problem. Or it may not.

My logic tends to think like this:

1. Mass shootings with semi auto AR.
AR Bannned. (lets pretend they all disappeared)

2. Mass Shootings with semi Auto “Hunting Rifle”. “Hunting Rifle” Banned. (lets pretend they all disappeared)

3. Mass Shootings with semi Auto Pistol..... Banned...

4. Mass Shootings with revolvers.... Banned....

5. Mass Shooting with SA revolvers...
Banned.....

Somewhere in there you may want to re-check Crime and Murder statistics...

I worry it’s a downward slope... caused by a problem.... with most likely the wrong solution.
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Slippery slope much?

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Maineiac

Maineiac

New member
JAGS said:
Change is usually uncomfortable. Anyone mention the guy was an active member of multiple white supremacy hate groups? Asking for a relative. Or is that a touchy subject since we're 7+ pages in?

I'll just leave this here.


View attachment 293329
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I thought it was already debunked he has no direct ties to a hate group? Also would be off topic since he didn't appear to target non whites?

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Sharkey

Sharkey

Word Ninja
A hundred or so posts in and people are still fighting about the "how" and avoiding the much harder discussion about the "why". :naw: Ironically, this thread further exemplifies exactly what I was talking about.

I guess I'll bite though. As someone who spends the majority of my days and weeks arguing the rule of law, I am always amazed when people use slippery slope arguments related to the Bill of Rights, or when they speak of the Bill of Rights in terms of absolutes. "The right to keep and bear arms" is no more absolute than the right of free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, or any other "freedom". Government restriction of all of these rights not only exists, it is necessary. The question is simply how much level of restriction are you willing to accept given the social utility of a particular "freedom"?

Even though the Bill of Rights does not define "arms", it seems that most rational Americans would agree that government restriction of private citizen ownership of shoulder fired rockets is ok. I think, or at least hope, that the majority of rational Americans would agree that the danger of having private citizen ownership of explosive rounds or true "armor piercing" rounds outweighs the social utility of possession by those same citizens. In other words, a reasonable society can place reasonable restrictions on "rights" without falling down the slippery slope into the abyss.

(On that point, slippery slope is really just a euphemism for "I'm taking my ball and going home". Each and every one of us makes decisions about what is or is not acceptable all day, every day, without falling down a slippery slope. Rational people, even people of different beliefs, can find reasonable common ground if they are willing to actually listen, discuss, and consider a given topic without resorting to emotion and rhetoric.)
 
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