Seahawkfan
Hooked
Yes I totally agree. I was being totally serious and not trying to be condescending.
Recent Shooting and Discussion
- Thread starter Brute
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Yes I totally agree. I was being totally serious and not trying to be condescending.
Honor2afault
Caught the Bug
Lets Be Honest...
There's no way to "fix" an issue that has been manifesting and growing exponentially for the past 30+ years. Sorry to say it, but Nope, no way.
Socially speaking, with the current state of our society, which is damn near that of Orvilles 1984, with the exception that instead of the government having eyes on everyone, it's Society via YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and every other social media network out there that's watching everyone. All the government has to do is monitor them, which it has already admitted to.
With everyone being subjected to unsolicited scrutiny and being judged, prosecuted and, in many facets, executed publicly via social media and that so many people, from elementary school age to the true elderly put such stock in this shit that the idea, concept, functionality and design of our judicial system, as fucked up as it is, is rendered as an afterthought or subsidiary institution.
We cannot turn back time or wish this cluster fuck of a situation fixed. So we are forced to deal with the ramifications of this. I, truly and wholeheartedly do, wish that loving one another was that easy to accomplish. However, honesty, like truth, simply is and we can either see it for what it is or continue to wear the blinders that society, that Cluster Fuck known as Political Correctness (talk about an oxymoron) , and the biases that we were raised with have placed upon our collective heads.
If, and I do say this with less than a grain of salt and very loosely, we as a society don't find something in the near future to fundamentally and effectively curtail the neglect of proper moral and ethical teaching of todays parents and youth, I believe (fear) that severe actions will be taken by the powers that be. Or, if as a social collective we run to the government for a "fix" no one and I do mean No One will like the outcome.
Think of the effects of marshal law. Think what you will, but it is a possibility and would offer a "temporary solution", one with no time limit. Think if they made use of those "rehabilitation centers" that no one wants to admit are there or the purpose for which they were built. Yes, these are extreme measures, I admit, but still a possible solution. And our government has done this and worse to our citizens in the past for "their own wellbeing".
A compromise between letting a society that's all but fucking worthless in terms of being moral, ethical or showing the least bit of sense (common or otherwise), and the extreme side that our less then benevolent government has proven to be, historically, would be to require everyone to serve in our military for at least 1 full term.
Yes, I understand that each branch would have to revamp its current structure to be more stringent, but in being more stringent would weed out or bring to the forefront those that do have those mental deficiencies and would allow for those to be dealt with under a regulated protocol. Those aspects that are lacking in our society could also be taught in a controlled environment, I mean parents, society, administrators ect. don't want to take a part in it and they DO need to be taught and Learned by everyone. It would help turn the whiny assed, butthurt pussies that have no ambition to be anything but a burden on everyone else, into contributing, functional members of, hopefully, a better, stronger society.
Looking around the world, specifically at those countries that have the lowest crime rates, per capita, the highest economic output, per capita, and most stable, gross, society, most have an aspect that is common to all. And, as it stands, those who require the longest stint in service by All of their population are, and have been, the most stable countries on this big blue marble we all call home.
(climbs off soapbox, again)
Thank you and have a great day.
There's no way to "fix" an issue that has been manifesting and growing exponentially for the past 30+ years. Sorry to say it, but Nope, no way.
Socially speaking, with the current state of our society, which is damn near that of Orvilles 1984, with the exception that instead of the government having eyes on everyone, it's Society via YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and every other social media network out there that's watching everyone. All the government has to do is monitor them, which it has already admitted to.
With everyone being subjected to unsolicited scrutiny and being judged, prosecuted and, in many facets, executed publicly via social media and that so many people, from elementary school age to the true elderly put such stock in this shit that the idea, concept, functionality and design of our judicial system, as fucked up as it is, is rendered as an afterthought or subsidiary institution.
We cannot turn back time or wish this cluster fuck of a situation fixed. So we are forced to deal with the ramifications of this. I, truly and wholeheartedly do, wish that loving one another was that easy to accomplish. However, honesty, like truth, simply is and we can either see it for what it is or continue to wear the blinders that society, that Cluster Fuck known as Political Correctness (talk about an oxymoron) , and the biases that we were raised with have placed upon our collective heads.
If, and I do say this with less than a grain of salt and very loosely, we as a society don't find something in the near future to fundamentally and effectively curtail the neglect of proper moral and ethical teaching of todays parents and youth, I believe (fear) that severe actions will be taken by the powers that be. Or, if as a social collective we run to the government for a "fix" no one and I do mean No One will like the outcome.
Think of the effects of marshal law. Think what you will, but it is a possibility and would offer a "temporary solution", one with no time limit. Think if they made use of those "rehabilitation centers" that no one wants to admit are there or the purpose for which they were built. Yes, these are extreme measures, I admit, but still a possible solution. And our government has done this and worse to our citizens in the past for "their own wellbeing".
A compromise between letting a society that's all but fucking worthless in terms of being moral, ethical or showing the least bit of sense (common or otherwise), and the extreme side that our less then benevolent government has proven to be, historically, would be to require everyone to serve in our military for at least 1 full term.
Yes, I understand that each branch would have to revamp its current structure to be more stringent, but in being more stringent would weed out or bring to the forefront those that do have those mental deficiencies and would allow for those to be dealt with under a regulated protocol. Those aspects that are lacking in our society could also be taught in a controlled environment, I mean parents, society, administrators ect. don't want to take a part in it and they DO need to be taught and Learned by everyone. It would help turn the whiny assed, butthurt pussies that have no ambition to be anything but a burden on everyone else, into contributing, functional members of, hopefully, a better, stronger society.
Looking around the world, specifically at those countries that have the lowest crime rates, per capita, the highest economic output, per capita, and most stable, gross, society, most have an aspect that is common to all. And, as it stands, those who require the longest stint in service by All of their population are, and have been, the most stable countries on this big blue marble we all call home.
(climbs off soapbox, again)
Thank you and have a great day.
Clutch
Caught the Bug
That brings up a good point, how do we ever really know if a measure stops a mass murder? There is no feedback loop, so good ideas are difficult to discover. Additionally, good measures take time to show up in data and we need everyone to agree on which metrics are important.
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TrailHunter
Hooked
Concealed Carry Holders have stopped murders.... but most don't want to hear that.
fiend
Caught the Bug
I’d be afraid of getting shot by the cops. Like in that recent news story of the security guard that had a shooter disarmed and pinned and the cops rolled up, saw the gun, and killed the guard. No thanks.
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HighwayTrout
Hooked
I know no one likes TSA.... but how many hijackings have occurred since 9/11? (Zero in the United States)
Better/higher level of security is a must. Much like the airlines.
I feel like a broken record bringing him back up. For those who don’t want to read his books. Maybe give this article a read. Sad that this article is about a decade old and not much has changed. We need to start thinking of violence like firemen think of fire....
https://www.policeone.com/school-vi...tive-shooters-in-schools-The-enemy-is-denial/
Better/higher level of security is a must. Much like the airlines.
I feel like a broken record bringing him back up. For those who don’t want to read his books. Maybe give this article a read. Sad that this article is about a decade old and not much has changed. We need to start thinking of violence like firemen think of fire....
https://www.policeone.com/school-vi...tive-shooters-in-schools-The-enemy-is-denial/
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TrailHunter
Hooked
.... or the time No citizen pulled a gun and 12 people died. No plan is perfect.
Brute
Hooked
You have a valid point about higher level of security...but it may only work for certain places. I can see that at malls, churches, gvt buildings...but are we now going to require armed presence at restaurants, bars, Trader Joe's...our country will begin to resemble an armed encampment. I also think the armed security will now become the primary target in planning another mass murder...and I've seen at least one situation where an armed guard at a school failed to engage an active shooter...
fiend
Caught the Bug
Beefed up security at airports undoubtedly has been beneficial, but at huge cost, both financial and otherwise.
But whether the cost of “hardening” other places is worth it is questionable. E.g., schools. See https://apple.news/AlC34g2bJRSuj-sV8eJOimA
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Sharkey
Word Ninja
Do you really think so (I ask that sincerely, not sarcastically)? Everyone I know in the airline industry says it is crazy how many times the TSA fails to catch things in planned tests...and that is just the failures that are known about. They also say that if someone really wants to do something...it is going to happen. That said, I do feel safer with the new cockpit door protocols on US flights.
HighwayTrout
Hooked
I do. Really. You don’t?
Even how bad they are and miss items. Same could be said for every law enforcement/security agency world wide. Can’t imagine how bad it would be with no security now.
They are also correct. If someone wants to commit harm. They will find a way.
fiend
Caught the Bug
No system is fail safe but I do think the post-9/11 airline security measures have been effective, both to prevent and deter. Reasonable people can disagree about whether the associated extraordinary costs have been worth it.
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Sharkey
Word Ninja
Except for the cockpit door changes, I feel like most of it is smoke and mirrors to make people feel better. I've seen a variety of reports from 2017 indicating that TSA misses somewhere between 70-90% of the "mock weapons" sent through the system by undercover investigators for the OIG. That is considered an improvement over the 95% failure rate from 2015.
Mind you, from what I have been told, the preplanned tests are favored towards detection. That doesn't exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
fiend
Caught the Bug
I haven’t seen the studies you cite. But even assuming they are what you say, they do not account for the deterrent effect. Remember the extraordinary amount of planning that Bin Laden and co went through to perpetuate the 9/11 attacks, and that was before all the post 9/11 security measures that have made it harder, but admittedly not impossible, to carry out a similar scheme. It’s no stretch to conclude that would-be terrorists will be looking for easier targets than highjacked airplanes.
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JK_0311
Member
Let’s not forget that there were unsuccessful attempts on airlines with the TSA in place. The underwear bomber is one that comes to mind.
The problem with the TSA is there is no oversight to them. They are the federal government, they supposedly check themselves, but really don’t. So the TSA, I would argue, has done nothing. Kinda like my security sign in front of my house. Locking the cockpit is what is probably what has done it. Reference the Israelis. They locked their cockpits after hijackings. Then no more hijackings.
The truth is that most of the shootings background checks would not have stopped them. Removing guns from the equation does not do any good, there are plenty of ways to commit mass murder. The real answer is probably educating our youth, parents being more aware and involved with their kids. Even then, shit still happens. It’s like saying, let’s outlaw drugs...how’s that going? Nurture is the best deterrence but even then nature (mental health) will have its way.
We have had mass killings/murders in America, and across the world for that matter, for quite sometime. We just are now swarmed with it with the constant information overload now, 24/7 media and social networking.
In America gun ownership is a right that has been given value as high as free speech and religion. Because the founders understood the importance of self defense and as importantly checking the govts power.
The answer is to nurture our youth with education and a proper upbringing, but as mentioned, some of these killings are just the nature of the person committing the act.
Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
The problem with the TSA is there is no oversight to them. They are the federal government, they supposedly check themselves, but really don’t. So the TSA, I would argue, has done nothing. Kinda like my security sign in front of my house. Locking the cockpit is what is probably what has done it. Reference the Israelis. They locked their cockpits after hijackings. Then no more hijackings.
The truth is that most of the shootings background checks would not have stopped them. Removing guns from the equation does not do any good, there are plenty of ways to commit mass murder. The real answer is probably educating our youth, parents being more aware and involved with their kids. Even then, shit still happens. It’s like saying, let’s outlaw drugs...how’s that going? Nurture is the best deterrence but even then nature (mental health) will have its way.
We have had mass killings/murders in America, and across the world for that matter, for quite sometime. We just are now swarmed with it with the constant information overload now, 24/7 media and social networking.
In America gun ownership is a right that has been given value as high as free speech and religion. Because the founders understood the importance of self defense and as importantly checking the govts power.
The answer is to nurture our youth with education and a proper upbringing, but as mentioned, some of these killings are just the nature of the person committing the act.
Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app
Honor2afault
Caught the Bug
damn skippy. Peter Pan, Jif .. take your pick.
shogun
New member
i dont think it could have been stated better than this.
jesse3638
Hooked
Glad she is OK. I agree something has got to change. I just don't know what. Prayers to everyone.
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