Over 2 Months and Still No Moby - Manual Transmission Woes

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
Yeah Eddie has some experience here. It may not be legal but they definitely try to shaft you and make it hell for you to get anything done. No one wants a lawyer every time you need some simple warranty work.

Now this happens all the time. A dealer will ALWAYS try to shaft you, counting on ignorance, lack of will to fight, lack of funds to pursue legal action, etc etc etc. 99% of lawyers will never take a car case (unless it is consumer fraud) on contingency, so most people don't want to shell out the funds for a lawyer. Thats the unfortunate part of the game. That is why everyone plays cat and mouse...you blow your motor, take out the supercharger and act dumb. You snap your axle? Take off those 37s and stick on the stockies. It has become a game of who's the better liar.
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
I really don't knoe how they could flag her jeep. It only has a bumper winch and 33" duratracs on the stock wheels. Every thing else is stock

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When a vehicle is flagged, that is an internal document. The customer generally doesn't even know about it. My wife had to subpoena Subaru North America to get the report. They are not shared with the public, so even if it was flagged, unless you are good friends with someone high up at the dealer, you would never know. Having said that, there is no way the vehicle is going to be flagged for a bumper and 33s. The subaru I keep talking about is a 2008 STI (used) with what we found out to be a wrong motor (either from a 2008 WRX or a 2004 STI), completely modified and poorly put back to stock fuel system, broken sway bars, holes from a roll cage, etc etc etc. As a result, when subaru discovered the vehicle had an incorrect motor (running poorly) they flagged the vehicle and denied the warranty claim.
 

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
I really don't knoe how they could flag her jeep. It only has a bumper winch and 33" duratracs on the stock wheels. Every thing else is stock

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That wasn't directed at you. I doubt they will.

I am very well versed in the legal aspects of dealer practices as they pertain to warranty claims. The subaru in my wife's lawsuit was flagged by a field engineer that was brought in specially for that reason. That is partially what the lawsuit is about. You can do whatever you want with your Jeep, but if your seat starts squeeking or your seatbelts don't work properly, they are still under warranty. The only thing that can be denied is the claim you put in. Your control arms snap, they can deny your claim to replace the control arm. The claims can only be denied one at a time. A dealer/manufacturer cannot blanket "void the warranty." There is no such thing as it is illegal to do so. A flagged vehicle simply makes the dealer aware of the situation, and they handle the claim with a much closer inspection. If I turned a brand new Jeep into Moby (like Rubicat), no dealer can simply say "you modified it, your warranty is gone." Rubicat didn't have his heated seats modified, his power mirrors changed, etc. Again, only an individual claim can be denied, never a warranty. BTW, if you have a REALLY good lawyer, you can even sue for false advertising. Chrysler routinely showcases their vehicles offroad, with massive tires, bumpers, axles, racks, etc etc etc. This has already been done (and won) by owners for the Nissan GTR and the Mitsubishi Evo.

P.S. A dealer doesn't have the authority to flag a vehicle. It must be flagged by a representative of the manufacturer (ie a field engineer).

I never said the dealer will flag it, I said it can be flagged.

And since you seem to want me to prove you wrong here it is right from the owners manual.


3.1 Modifications Not Covered
A. Some Modifications Don’t Void the
Warranties But Aren’t Covered
Certain changes that you might make to your
vehicle do not, by themselves, void the warranties
described in this booklet. Examples of some of
these changes are:
• installing non-Chrysler Group LLC (􏰀Chrysler􏰀)
parts, components, or equipment (such as a non-
Chrysler radio or speed control); and
• using special non-Chrysler materials or
additives.
plant or is not certified for use on your vehicle. Nor
do they cover the costs of any repairs or adjustments
that might be caused or needed because of the
installation or use of non-Chrysler parts, compo-
nents, equipment, materials, or additives.
Performance or racing parts are considered to be
non-Chrysler parts. Repairs or adjustments caused
by their use are not covered under your warranties.
Examples of the types of alterations not covered are:
• installing accessories — except for genuine
Chrysler / MOPAR accessories installed by
an authorized Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep or Ram dealer;
• applying rustproofing or other protection
products;
14
• changing the vehicle’s configuration or
dimensions, such as converting the vehicle into
a limousine or food service vehicle; or
• using any refrigerant that Chrysler has
not approved.
B. Modifications That WILL Void Your
Warranties
 

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
When a vehicle is flagged, that is an internal document. The customer generally doesn't even know about it. They are not shared with the public, so even if it was flagged, unless you are good friends with someone high up at the dealer, you would never know.

Again with the wrong information. If they flag you and you bring it back in they will tell you that they cannot do any work on it due to a restriction. Again if you don't believe what I am saying wait until Eddie chimes in and tells you how they flagged Moby.
 

Hightower

Member
Going on 2 Months and Still No Moby

Dealership is now really on my shit list: my sister in law and I just got back from 2 days in moab last week. Her 2012 2dr sahara has barley gotten 3k miles on the odometer since she bought it, 2k of which where the drive to and from moab from San Diego. This was her first real wheeling trip, on the way up there was a clunck that could be felt through the tub anytime we turned right or hit a large bump. This progressed as we made our drive to moab to making the clunk over pretty much any terrain that wasn't smooth, and now to the point it is occurring the entire time the jeep is at free way speed. I checked the torque on all suspension bolts, track bar bolts, ball joints, and lug nuts a few times along the way. The clunk has no effect on steering, so I don't think its in the suspension itself. We wheeled the 2 days we had in moab and drove back, the clunk always there. Today she took it to Carl burger dodge in LA Mesa, where they refused to even look at it concerning the clunck since "the skid plate and cross member have off road damage". She left the jeep there over night to have a really annoying interior squeak checked out. I'm holding my breath that they even fix the squeak without f'in the jeep up some how and I'm going to go with her tomorrow to talk to the service advisor... This is bunch of bullshit, she payed a lot extra to buy a 100k warranty on a jeep she purchased 2 months ago and these punks are gonna try and void that 3k miles in. We didn't run trails that where that hard, she needed to be winched up one obstacle all weekend.... I'll let u know how it goes after I talk to them:mad:

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I don't even take my rig to dealers north of the 49th anymore all the service people come out to look at her they tell me how cool she looks ask me where I've wheeled than tell me no warranty on this or that because I've wheeled it or changed the tires, axels extra. Jeep needs to man up and get your dealers to back your products especially when they are used in the same manner you advertise them.
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
Again with the wrong information. If they flag you and you bring it back in they will tell you that they cannot do any work on it due to a restriction. Again if you don't believe what I am saying wait until Eddie chimes in and tells you how they flagged Moby.

Maybe this is a California thing (doubt it) but that is not how it works in NY or NJ. A flagged vehicle may still have warranty service done, but now requires the approval of the field engineer. It is not "voided" or denied, but simply requires approval, which may or may not get denied. Again, if you stick a diesel motor into in a brand new JK, they cannot void the warranty on your headunit. Anyway, no point in going around in circles. Handle your claims the best way you see fit. I just hope you are fully aware of what a dealer can and can't do so that you don't have a claim denied that should be rightfully honored. I have had dealers attempt to deny me warranty coverage, but they quickly found out that it's wasn't going to go their way. Have a great weekend!:rock:
 

OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
I don't even take my rig to dealers north of the 49th anymore all the service people come out to look at her they tell me how cool she looks ask me where I've wheeled than tell me no warranty on this or that because I've wheeled it or changed the tires, axels extra. Jeep needs to man up and get your dealers to back your products especially when they are used in the same manner you advertise them.

THIS!!! That thread asking what you want for the 2016 jeep, I want jeep to stand behind there warranty and not try to back out of it when you change something. :thumb:
 

TheDuff

New member
Re: Going on 2 Months and Still No Moby

I'll give an update on Tracy's jeep: during breakfast the service advisor called, he was trying to tell her over the phone that there was heavy undercarriage damage and that the crossmember was bent to the point it had damaged the exhaust loop. I took the phone and had a little chat with him, they wanted her to leave the jeep till Monday and speak with the service manager then. I told him I couldn't do that and would like to look at it with him today so he could show me this heavy damage. We went over right after breakfast. They still had it on the lift so we could look at it easily. While walking over the advisor said he had just gotten a chance to inspect the damage himself for the first time and went on to say it wasn't as bad as the tech had made it seem in his report. What we found underneath was really a lot and I mean a lot less damage then I had anticipated. I should have taken some pictures, there where a few scratches on the cross member, but clearly not bent. A decent size dent in the fuel tank skid, but again not near as bad as I thought was gonna be there. The oil pan, trans pan, and exhaust loop had not even a scratch. The loop wasn't loose or touching the tub or cross member. The advisor offered to let her take the jeep home and bring it back Monday so a experienced tech could do a real diagnosis. I'm amazed at the change of attitude once we arrived. The advisor pulled it off the lift and drove it out for her, he noted he could feel the clunk from just the short drive. Tracy looked at the odometer and told me they hadn't even put a mile on it, so that a little pathetic that the tech never even test drove it. I got to read a printed copy of the techs report, he made it sound horrible, like we out using the jeep as a rock racer:( Tracy is gonna ask that report be removed from the vehicle's record. We will hopefully find out Monday what the real cause of the clunk is:)

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OverlanderJK

Resident Smartass
I'll give an update on Tracy's jeep: during breakfast the service advisor called, he was trying to tell her over the phone that there was heavy undercarriage damage and that the crossmember was bent to the point it had damaged the exhaust loop. I took the phone and had a little chat with him, they wanted her to leave the jeep till Monday and speak with the service manager then. I told him I couldn't do that and would like to look at it with him today so he could show me this heavy damage. We went over right after breakfast. They still had it on the lift so we could look at it easily. While walking over the advisor said he had just gotten a chance to inspect the damage himself for the first time and went on to say it wasn't as bad as the tech had made it seem in his report. What we found underneath was really a lot and I mean a lot less damage then I had anticipated. I should have taken some pictures, there where a few scratches on the cross member, but clearly not bent. A decent size dent in the fuel tank skid, but again not near as bad as I thought was gonna be there. The oil pan, trans pan, and exhaust loop had not even a scratch. The loop wasn't loose or touching the tub or cross member. The advisor offered to let her take the jeep home and bring it back Monday so a experienced tech could do a real diagnosis. I'm amazed at the change of attitude once we arrived. The advisor pulled it off the lift and drove it out for her, he noted he could feel the clunk from just the short drive. Tracy looked at the odometer and told me they hadn't even put a mile on it, so that a little pathetic that the tech never even test drove it. I got to read a printed copy of the techs report, he made it sound horrible, like we out using the jeep as a rock racer:( Tracy is gonna ask that report be removed from the vehicle's record. We will hopefully find out Monday what the real cause of the clunk is:)

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I don't think they ever test drive them. They did test drive mine until the following morning when I went in to get it back. The tech said "ok lets see if we can find anything." So they had mine for 24 hours without even driving it. :rolleyes2: (Not Carl Burger)
 

JAGS

Hooked
A small positive step, but positive none the less. :yup:These guys get treated like jerks all the time. Sometimes the best thing to do is exactly what you did, just talk and look at things together to get the full picture. Good luck on Monday and hope things progress.
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
I'll give an update on Tracy's jeep: during breakfast the service advisor called, he was trying to tell her over the phone that there was heavy undercarriage damage and that the crossmember was bent to the point it had damaged the exhaust loop. I took the phone and had a little chat with him, they wanted her to leave the jeep till Monday and speak with the service manager then. I told him I couldn't do that and would like to look at it with him today so he could show me this heavy damage. We went over right after breakfast. They still had it on the lift so we could look at it easily. While walking over the advisor said he had just gotten a chance to inspect the damage himself for the first time and went on to say it wasn't as bad as the tech had made it seem in his report. What we found underneath was really a lot and I mean a lot less damage then I had anticipated. I should have taken some pictures, there where a few scratches on the cross member, but clearly not bent. A decent size dent in the fuel tank skid, but again not near as bad as I thought was gonna be there. The oil pan, trans pan, and exhaust loop had not even a scratch. The loop wasn't loose or touching the tub or cross member. The advisor offered to let her take the jeep home and bring it back Monday so a experienced tech could do a real diagnosis. I'm amazed at the change of attitude once we arrived. The advisor pulled it off the lift and drove it out for her, he noted he could feel the clunk from just the short drive. Tracy looked at the odometer and told me they hadn't even put a mile on it, so that a little pathetic that the tech never even test drove it. I got to read a printed copy of the techs report, he made it sound horrible, like we out using the jeep as a rock racer:( Tracy is gonna ask that report be removed from the vehicle's record. We will hopefully find out Monday what the real cause of the clunk is:)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using WAYALIFE mobile app

Good for you for standing your ground. Never let a dealer strong arm you. Nice work.
 

TheDuff

New member
Re: Going on 2 Months and Still No Moby

Good for you for standing your ground. Never let a dealer strong arm you. Nice work.

I honestly think they where doing this to her just cause she is a girl. Or the tech is incompetent and needs to be restricted to working on soccer mom vehicles and certified mall crawlers. I understand not covering parts broken by off road damage, but the report made it sound like she was using the jeep to crush cars like bigfoot. I'm going to inquire how the installation of an aftermarket skid system would effect warranty work going forward. I would hope it would have no negative impact since at this point we want to avoid future issues concerning under carriage damage. I'm also going to be sure I am fully involved with any future dealership visits so she doesn't get the run around going forward and that the same tech not be allowed to touch her or my jeep.:)

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Big C 86

New member
Hey Eddie ~

Are you still dealing with Randy over at BB? Any luck getting the labor and diagnostic charges squared away? I can get you directly in touch with the owner if you need. If he was aware of how many people see your posts, I doubt they would have kept Moby as long as they did. Not much of an excuse, but he does prize his reputation online. The GM can be a pain in the ass and I think he enjoys arguing, so if it comes to that I'd just go around him straight to the owner.
 

NFRs2000NYC

Caught the Bug
I honestly think they where doing this to her just cause she is a girl. Or the tech is incompetent and needs to be restricted to working on soccer mom vehicles and certified mall crawlers. I understand not covering parts broken by off road damage, but the report made it sound like she was using the jeep to crush cars like bigfoot. I'm going to inquire how the installation of an aftermarket skid system would effect warranty work going forward. I would hope it would have no negative impact since at this point we want to avoid future issues concerning under carriage damage. I'm also going to be sure I am fully involved with any future dealership visits so she doesn't get the run around going forward and that the same tech not be allowed to touch her or my jeep.:)

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1) Absolutely. The honda dealer was trying to fleece my wife a few months back telling her the brake pads are dangerously low (I changed them a week prior to that.) She called me, I arrived at the dealer, and told them I want the next 10 services for free or else I will rain a sh!tstorm on them with the media, lawyers, the NJCPB, etc etc. The GM of the dealer turned white, and of course, gave me everything I wanted. The service guy was straight up trying to scam my wife. I can't imagine how many people they have scammed over the years.

2) The skids being damaged would (in court) be considered completely normal as they are MEANT to be hit and their sole purpose is to protect other components. Thats like saying "I'm sorry sir, we don't warranty wipers because they got wet." This was the basis of the Nissan and the Mitsubishi lawsuit. The cars are advertised a certain way with certain abilities. Then when a customer uses said abilities, they deny warranty claims or blame the customer for the damage. As the courts already stated, this is absurd and blatantly false advertising and can even be spun into a consumer fraud statute with misrepresentation. Hell, Chrysler has a jeep crawling some rocks in the damn brochure. Now, if you cracked your fuel tank (through the skids) they can claim you took the vehicle OUTSIDE its ability and have a leg to stand on, but simply with a scratched/dented skidplate....not a chance.

You are also right (and not to sound sexist) but unless your wife is a gearhead, the dealer will try to fleece her every chance they get if it's going to cost them money, so your idea to back her up during dealer visits is spot on.
 
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rtguy1

New member
Any update on your rig Eddie? Curious if anything was found in the rear end, that is if you were able to have,it looked at yet.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Any update on your rig Eddie? Curious if anything was found in the rear end, that is if you were able to have,it looked at yet.

Funny that you would ask as I was about to post an update. :crazyeyes:

So, we stopped by Dynatrac and had them give things a quick test drive and a look. Like me, they had never heard of a rear end making the kind of sound that we were hearing before - no whine, howl as what you might expect to hear with a bad setup or failing bearing and the clatter that you hear is way too fast to be a broken tooth or teeth. They also pointed out that the sound ONLY occurs while in gear and with a forward load - no sound what so ever while coasting or while decellerating which is something you would expect to hear if the gears were bad or setup wrong. Last but not least, in reverse and even giving it some real gas, there is absolutely no sound. Again, if this were in the rear end, this would not be the case. Needless to say, the problem points back at the transmission. :naw:

Having said all that, I have talked to the dealership and they are willing to at least fix our NEW shifting into 1st problem and address the speed sensors that now no longer work and do it for free BUT, they still don't have a clue as to what is causing our noise or how to fix it. Of course, IF we drop it off again, who knows how long we will be without our Jeep and god forbid if they make things even worse. The whole thing just sucks!

Dynatrac has recommended a good transmission shop in Anaheim and are confident that if it's a transmission issue, they can fix it. Off Road Evolution has also volunteered to give things a look to help point us in the right direction as well. Of course, assuming it can be fixed, it'd be hard not to think that it'll cost at least an additional $1500 or more and honestly, I just don't know if I'm ready to throw anymore money at this problem. :sigh:
 

rtguy1

New member
Oh no! I am bummed for you man. I guess if u have any plans to swap it out later it would be best to save the cash and ride it out. Sleep on it a bit before you drop more cash. It would be disappointing to invest more into diagnosing the issue and come up empty again, or like you said, create new issues. It'll work it's way out, at least you have DYNATRAC and EVO lending a hand.
 
Re: Going on 2 Months and Still No Moby

that sucks Eddie! throwing money "at it" is exactly what it is since no one is really sure what it is.

it is insured right? how about some C4? :eek: strip him down, throw some stock bits back on him and BANG! problem gone.... :D but seriously, things dont sound good for Moby or your wallet, no matter which direction you end up going!

andrew -
 
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SquareLJ

New member
This whole thing just sucks Eddie, sorry to hear about all of these problems (also makes me seriously wonder about working for a dealer as a mechanic). I say, take it to the Trans shop and send the bill to the dealer.
 

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, here's a short clip we filmed before taking our Jeep to the dealership. This is what we're hearing only, it's gotten a lot worse...

 
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