Boll Joint run out question

M

myrddin

Member
He folks, I am about to line up a few new projects, was looking for advice. I had thought my ball joints were worn, but I went out to take a measurement with my dial indicator and I only see 10 (0.010) showing for the vertical run out... I think if I remember reading right the limit is 0.050 vertical (Axial) and 0.060 side to side (Radial). I get nothing I can see when I look for side to side, but I can use the pole test method with one side off the ground at a time and I can visually see movement up and down on both the upper ball stud and the lower ball joint... but I get about 0.010 for the reading... I am unable to feel anything by hand (9-3 o'clock and 6-12 o'clock) but I can see the movement I mentioned with the pole on both sides... Thoughts? looks like they are OK... I can however get movement up and down on the tie rod ends by hand, I can push up and it will move enough for me to feel and see on both sides... I don't think this is acceptable... I was about to order the Teleflex ball joints, but if they are fine I will switch to tie rod...

I will re measure again tonight as my dial indicator was at an angle and not 90 deg. which means it couldn't have been precise... but still the difference between 0.010 and 0.50 is pretty big.

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myrddin said:
He folks, I am about to line up a few new projects, was looking for advice. I had thought my ball joints were worn, but I went out to take a measurement with my dial indicator and I only see 10 (0.010) showing for the vertical run out... I think if I remember reading right the limit is 0.050 vertical (Axial) and 0.060 side to side (Radial). I get nothing I can see when I look for side to side, but I can use the pole test method with one side off the ground at a time and I can visually see movement up and down on both the upper ball stud and the lower ball joint... but I get about 0.010 for the reading... I am unable to feel anything by hand (9-3 o'clock and 6-12 o'clock) but I can see the movement I mentioned with the pole on both sides... Thoughts? looks like they are OK... I can however get movement up and down on the tie rod ends by hand, I can push up and it will move enough for me to feel and see on both sides... I don't think this is acceptable... I was about to order the Teleflex ball joints, but if they are fine I will switch to tie rod...

I will re measure again tonight as my dial indicator was at an angle and not 90 deg. which means it couldn't have been precise... but still the difference between 0.010 and 0.50 is pretty big.
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Up and down play is .050 allowable wear I believe. So that's slightly less than 1/16". There should be no side to side play. Post a video of your tie rod issue, typically if your tie rod joints don't move sideways when you have someone turn your steering wheel, you should be ok.
 
I will get you a video... I can tell you that the tie rod ends have little to no side to side play at all (tires on the ground with some one turning the wheel back and forth). I can tell you that the only noticeable movement is vertical where I can take channel locks and squeeze or my hands and push up and it will move up (I think this may be ok after reading).

Ball joints. they both have zero side to side, only the 0.010 up and down (per the dial indicator)...

Wheel of the ground I have zero movement side to side or up and down when I use my hands.


I would think that I should hear a pop or clunk if the ball joints or tie rod ends are bad...
 
myrddin said:
I will get you a video... I can tell you that the tie rod ends have little to no side to side play at all (tires on the ground with some one turning the wheel back and forth). I can tell you that the only noticeable movement is vertical where I can take channel locks and squeeze or my hands and push up and it will move up (I think this may be ok after reading).

Ball joints. they both have zero side to side, only the 0.010 up and down (per the dial indicator)...

Wheel of the ground I have zero movement side to side or up and down when I use my hands.


I would think that I should hear a pop or clunk if the ball joints or tie rod ends are bad...
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Sounds like everything is fine. Are you having any kind of abnormal symptoms? What led you to check these things?
 
Slight shimmy in the steering wheel at 55/60 I know it could be the tires... But I started checking over the ball joints and rod ends to be sure... I did need to replace the drag link end... I just wasn't sure about the allowed play. In the past I wouldn't replace them unless I heard a clunk or had movement when the wheel was up and l use my hands to check. I did see a thread by a guy "plan man" he shows using the pipe and states that there should be no virticle play in the ball joint (if so he says replace) also he says take a set of channel locks and squeeze the rod ends, any virticle play means they are bad... So it set me on a mission to replace... But now o think that may not be right. Again, I do have 0.010 virticle movement in the ball joint and ball stud, I don't seem to have any horizontal movement that I can see or feel when I use the pole. The rod ends also have movement in a virticle plane but little to no horizontal movement as well. And no movement or sound at all when I shake with my hand.
 
myrddin said:
Slight shimmy in the steering wheel at 55/60 I know it could be the tires... But I started checking over the ball joints and rod ends to be sure... I did need to replace the drag link end... I just wasn't sure about the allowed play. In the past I wouldn't replace them unless I heard a clunk or had movement when the wheel was up and l use my hands to check. I did see a thread by a guy "plan man" he shows using the pipe and states that there should be no virticle play in the ball joint (if so he says replace) also he says take a set of channel locks and squeeze the rod ends, any virticle play means they are bad... So it set me on a mission to replace... But now o think that may not be right. Again, I do have 0.010 virticle movement in the ball joint and ball stud, I don't seem to have any horizontal movement that I can see or feel when I use the pole. The rod ends also have movement in a virticle plane but little to no horizontal movement as well. And no movement or sound at all when I shake with my hand.
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I would check manufacturer specs which I believe allow up to .050. I'd trust that. As far as the shimmy, maybe try a tire rotation just to see if something changes. Also, when you do the steering test, ensure there is NO play at your track bar ends.
 
How about deflection in the trackbar bushing? I do see it flexing... Enough to catch my eye... But I have all new 9/16 I think it is hardware and torqued everything to 140 fp (per kit recommendations).
 
myrddin said:
How about deflection in the trackbar bushing? I do see it flexing... Enough to catch my eye... But I have all new 9/16 I think it is hardware and torqued everything to 140 fp (per kit recommendations).
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Track bar shouldn't move at all at the bushings or bolts (other than normal pivoting).

myrddin said:
See the up and down movement in this video... My ball joints look similar
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ii81V7XYr-k
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If your ball joints do that, then they're bad. But you said earlier, your dial indicator only measured .010. .010 is acceptable, the joints in the video look more like .060.
 
Yes my measurement shows 0.010 but I get the same audible clunk noise when moved up and down with the pipe ( just not as loud). I think I am just going to turn this into a project... I'm going to order some teraflex ball joints, and a monster track bar... And if I have any money left over I will also replace the rod ends (tie rod and drag link at pitman arm). I saw I have a leaking axle seal on the passenger side too do while I'm in k might as well get it too. I was hoping to avoid the work and spend the money on some other things but I'm not 100% sure about what I am seeing, even though it seems in spec, it's not a bad idea to beef it up. What rod ends you think are good to use?
 
myrddin said:
Yes my measurement shows 0.010 but I get the same audible clunk noise when moved up and down with the pipe ( just not as loud). I think I am just going to turn this into a project... I'm going to order some teraflex ball joints, and a monster track bar... And if I have any money left over I will also replace the rod ends (tie rod and drag link at pitman arm). I saw I have a leaking axle seal on the passenger side too do while I'm in k might as well get it too. I was hoping to avoid the work and spend the money on some other things but I'm not 100% sure about what I am seeing, even though it seems in spec, it's not a bad idea to beef it up. What rod ends you think are good to use?
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I would do adequate research on the Monster track bar before purchasing. Here's a start: http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?510-Teraflex-HD-Monster-track-bar-broken!
 
thanks buddy... you have been a lot of help with your advice and feedback... I had not seen that problem with the monster track bars before... looks like it was a gen 1 thing... I will start tracking this down to see if it carried over to gen 2. Appreciate the help!
 
myrddin said:
thanks buddy... you have been a lot of help with your advice and feedback... I had not seen that problem with the monster track bars before... looks like it was a gen 1 thing... I will start tracking this down to see if it carried over to gen 2. Appreciate the help!
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No problem. I would want someone to warn me before buying something poorly built. I hope you find the answer on that and get a decent product.
 
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