piginajeep
The Original Smartass
mmccurdy said:
Haha... No kidding.
Roof Rack + Snorkel = Overland?
- Thread starter wayoflife
- Start date
Haha... No kidding.
wolfguy09(papabear)
New member
In New York
here where i live, most any jeeps would be considered for both, we have hills, wilderness, mud and no dessert. A snorkel would be kind of useless in most aspects around here, but a roof rack and winch would be a must. I think you can have all 3 and have it be considered both, just label it as you use it. then you can change it whenever you want =p
here where i live, most any jeeps would be considered for both, we have hills, wilderness, mud and no dessert. A snorkel would be kind of useless in most aspects around here, but a roof rack and winch would be a must. I think you can have all 3 and have it be considered both, just label it as you use it. then you can change it whenever you want =p
a roof rack? really? man, i always found mine would get hung up in the trees and throw my center of gravity off. it was needed back when we just had our TJ but man, i hated it and thought it got in the way more than anything.
piginajeep
The Original Smartass
What's the point in a roof rack?? To haul more shit and raise the center of gravity?
What do people haul on them, I can't haul inside or on the bumper?
I thought about one for my two door then realized the 4 door made more sense
What do people haul on them, I can't haul inside or on the bumper?
I thought about one for my two door then realized the 4 door made more sense
piginajeep
The Original Smartass
wayoflife said:
The rear big ass Hanson basket would be my alternative
Still love your old TJ
Maybe y'all are too close to the problem
GSM early on came up with the right definition, then totally overlooked the obvious by saying he could rent a car to do most of it. I'll tell you something: those pioneers' Conestoga covered wagons didn't have paved or even dirt roads to run the overland trails. Living in the desert as most of you do, the countryside is flat and your rock crawling is for fun, not for the intent of getting from--for instance--Maine to Oregon without traveling paved roads or riding the Appalachian trail (not the Blue Mountain Parkway) from Alabama to Vermont.
Think about the old African safaris. Those people had to carry their homes in their vehicles and those vehicles had to handle all kinds of terrain from dry desert flats to mucky river marshes. They needed a vehicle that not only could carry from 2 to 4 people inside, but they had to carry their entire living supplies--water, fuel, food (though they could hunt for some of that) ammunition and any other scientific data gathering materials. Think about the group of scientists that drove a pair of Jeep Wrangler Unlimiteds (overland equipped) up the slopes of a sleeping 15,000 foot volcano. To be bluntly obvious, a roof rack is a necessity for that kind of work.
We're not talking about a 1- or 2-day trail ride; we're talking about going places no other vehicle has gone and needing to live out of their vehicle for perhaps weeks at a time. A rental car simply cannot do that and quite honestly your typical rental car couldn't even survive the Pan-American highway from Peru to Alaska. That rental car could probably not handle a cross-country run from Kamchatka to Moscow in Russia. That is what an Overland rig is all about.
Until now, the best overland rig in the world was the stereotypical Land Rover Discovery(? Not absolutely certain of the model) you saw in all the old Safari movies. The Jeep JK Unlimited is America's first real challenger for that title.
GSM early on came up with the right definition, then totally overlooked the obvious by saying he could rent a car to do most of it. I'll tell you something: those pioneers' Conestoga covered wagons didn't have paved or even dirt roads to run the overland trails. Living in the desert as most of you do, the countryside is flat and your rock crawling is for fun, not for the intent of getting from--for instance--Maine to Oregon without traveling paved roads or riding the Appalachian trail (not the Blue Mountain Parkway) from Alabama to Vermont.
Think about the old African safaris. Those people had to carry their homes in their vehicles and those vehicles had to handle all kinds of terrain from dry desert flats to mucky river marshes. They needed a vehicle that not only could carry from 2 to 4 people inside, but they had to carry their entire living supplies--water, fuel, food (though they could hunt for some of that) ammunition and any other scientific data gathering materials. Think about the group of scientists that drove a pair of Jeep Wrangler Unlimiteds (overland equipped) up the slopes of a sleeping 15,000 foot volcano. To be bluntly obvious, a roof rack is a necessity for that kind of work.
We're not talking about a 1- or 2-day trail ride; we're talking about going places no other vehicle has gone and needing to live out of their vehicle for perhaps weeks at a time. A rental car simply cannot do that and quite honestly your typical rental car couldn't even survive the Pan-American highway from Peru to Alaska. That rental car could probably not handle a cross-country run from Kamchatka to Moscow in Russia. That is what an Overland rig is all about.
Until now, the best overland rig in the world was the stereotypical Land Rover Discovery(? Not absolutely certain of the model) you saw in all the old Safari movies. The Jeep JK Unlimited is America's first real challenger for that title.
Last edited:
Yeah, but once again, we're talking about here in America, NOT the Pan-American highway from Peru to Alaska. Here, you need to stick to designated trails and, while I could take you on 4-5 day trail rides through some of the most remote regions of Sierra Nevada or Great Basin Desert where you do have to live out of your Jeep, civilization is still relatively near and certainly not out of the reach of my Spot GPS locator.
My biggest issue is with this idea that there is supposedly a way to specifically make an "overland" JK and that it is somehow better than a well built up JK. And, I have yet to hear a single person prove it. I want to hear actual experiences where a highly built JK broke down and BECAUSE it had specialized aftermarket parts, was left high and dry. Or, I want to hear actual experiences where a guy in a "overland" style JK broke down and was saved because of his minimal build and his ability to find parts in a local town. I hear all kinds of great stories and imagined predicaments but, I have yet to hear any specific facts proving this whole idea of "overland" being somehow better. But hey, that's just me.
I guess that's where the concept of "off road" and "overland" differs. Quite honestly, as you said it would be difficult to consider overlanding here in the US; our country is in its way simply overpopulated and there's very little real wilderness left. Many of the types of overland trails I would consider are either illegal to even attempt or in some cases purposely blocked. When I lived out in Colorado, I found a stretch of 19th Century railroad bed that had eventually been replaced by the Moffat tunnel. You could stand beside the roadbed next to a creek only a couple miles off I-70 and follow the roadbed by eye all the way up about 5 miles to where the track had to cut through a short tunnel simply because trains couldn't make the curve around the end of the spur.
I actually watched somebody in an off-road rig (I think it was a pickup with a bed topper) drive all the way up and into that tunnel, only to back out and have to back all the way down the trail because he had no place to turn around. Honestly, a TJ would have done no better because those old roadbeds were barely wide enough for the 4'8" track gauge plus another foot or two for the ties and ballast. Believe me, that drop off looked scary even to me because the slopes on those mountains approached 75-80° in many places. Add the high altitude and most rigs didn't have a whole lot of power to get themselves out of trouble.
My point is that I agree about the lack of necessity for a true overland-rigged Jeep in the US, but places both north and south might have every reason to have one.
A quickie after thought here might be to consider the overlander as a kind of off-road-capable micro-motorhome for a couple or family of three. It's big enough to carry everything they need into a remote area and let them camp there for at least a week. Sure, pickup trucks have filled that role in the US for decades, but they weren't originally designed for that purpose where a stock JK or JK Rubi could do the job straight off the showroom floor. Obviously the snorkel is intended to let it ford streams that may rise over the hood of the vehicle and carrying gear on top keeps it from getting wet when fording those streams. Outside of that, the rig may be almost completely stock.
Last edited:
Yeah. With this post I match you for number of posts and I've only been a member for about 2 hours.:bleh: (well, almost. I thought I had 7 already.)
StrizzyChris
New member
Thats what makes Overland in the US a trend or vehicle fashion statement rather than a vehicle fit for function! If we were in africa there may be some arguement, but even then its a weak one! Wheel width, turning radius, etc in one argument against a Jeep in one scenario will later be the advantage in another scenario. There is never a perfect build for every scenario, if so there would only be one offroad vehicle in production. :twocents:
posting on the same thread doesn't count :cheesy::cheesy:
GCM 2
New member
Have you ever been out here?? The southwest is NOT flat, I live in the 5th largest city in America and there is a 2000' mountain down the street from my house.
We do rock crawl for fun, but have you seen the canyons and washes we drive? It's terrain that even the settlers avoided. How is my jeep not set up for going across country not using paved roads :thinking: Is it the snorkel I'm missing? Again, my jeep can go everywhere an "overland rig" can go, but that same "overland rig" most certainly cannot go where mine goes.
Sorry. But once again, my jeep can do this too and quite comfortably at that :thumb:
Actually, wrong on this point too. I have driven parts of the world (Russia, eastern Europe, the former Russian states, Pakistan, and most middle eastern countries) in 4x4's, Mitsubishi cars, Toyota Celicas, Russian Volgas, even a Ford Taurus (oddly enough in Uzbekistan) that most Offroaders here in the US wouldn't take their Rubicon into. I have been in Afghanistan since the beginning in 2001 and have seen the craziest stuff imaginable with two wheel drive cars, and yes, the average Afghan does more hardcore wheeling in his Celica just to get food than 75% of the forum readers will ever do, simply because it's a "must do to survive" and not a "sport".
The only reason Land Rovers ended up in these countries is because they are all former, or we're going to be, British colonies. Had the US done a bit more crusading in its early days, well they would all be driving jeeps. :thumb: BTW, I am a huge Land Rover fan, owned several, so no hating here. There is a picture of my "Overlanding" LR3 somewhere in this thread. You know why I don't have it anymore? I got tired of taking by-passes on trails and having to watch stock jeeps go on into the wilds of America without me :cheesy:
Like some throughout this thread, I'm just not getting how an "overland built" jeep/truck/car/bus/ is supposed to be better at crossing a plethora of different terrains and/or distances any better than my rig on 40" tires and coilovers.
Peace out :icon_crazy:
G
Last edited:
Sheesh! Why doesn't everybody take what I say the wrong way?
I've been trying to describe what an overland rig is, not trying to say it's better or worse in any way. The original question of this entire discussion was "Roof Rack + Snorkel + Overland?
The answer is, basically, "Yes." An overlander is essentially little more than a 4WD station wagon with sufficient ground clearance to travel through rough terrain and the means to travel through any environment an excursion would expect. It needs to be as completely self-sufficient as possible with the capacity to carry enough supplies to accommodate its passengers for an extended period away from ready assistance. To be quite honest, even going for the fat rock-crawling tires of WayofLife's three rigs is overkill since replacements even for that size tire may be impossible in some places that overland rigs may travel outside the United States. Of all the available vehicles around the world that could meet this need, until the JK Unlimited, that Land Rover was the vehicle of choice, followed closely by the license-built Toyota Land Cruisers of the '70s and probably before. With the drastic changes being made to the new Land Rovers, all of a sudden the JK stands to take over that role in international overland exploration.
As I said, most modified Jeeps in the US are probably far more rig than such groups would want because they would see all those modifications as wasted money. Sure, your Land Rover may take the bypasses, but overland exploration is looking for the easiest available route, not the most difficult. if a horse and cart can go over the trail, the Land Rover (Defender?) can take that same trail and the base Unlimited X, Sport and even Sahara can do just as well if not better.
As I said, most of you are too close to the issue to see the differences. I don't fault you for challenging your vehicles (hey, I have an '08 Sahara myself which took the #5 and #6 trails at Rousch Creek, PA factory stock) but again, that's not the intent or purpose of an overland rig. Get through however you can, the easiest trail you can find, and you've succeeded. Less is more in that case.
I've been trying to describe what an overland rig is, not trying to say it's better or worse in any way. The original question of this entire discussion was "Roof Rack + Snorkel + Overland?
The answer is, basically, "Yes." An overlander is essentially little more than a 4WD station wagon with sufficient ground clearance to travel through rough terrain and the means to travel through any environment an excursion would expect. It needs to be as completely self-sufficient as possible with the capacity to carry enough supplies to accommodate its passengers for an extended period away from ready assistance. To be quite honest, even going for the fat rock-crawling tires of WayofLife's three rigs is overkill since replacements even for that size tire may be impossible in some places that overland rigs may travel outside the United States. Of all the available vehicles around the world that could meet this need, until the JK Unlimited, that Land Rover was the vehicle of choice, followed closely by the license-built Toyota Land Cruisers of the '70s and probably before. With the drastic changes being made to the new Land Rovers, all of a sudden the JK stands to take over that role in international overland exploration.
As I said, most modified Jeeps in the US are probably far more rig than such groups would want because they would see all those modifications as wasted money. Sure, your Land Rover may take the bypasses, but overland exploration is looking for the easiest available route, not the most difficult. if a horse and cart can go over the trail, the Land Rover (Defender?) can take that same trail and the base Unlimited X, Sport and even Sahara can do just as well if not better.
As I said, most of you are too close to the issue to see the differences. I don't fault you for challenging your vehicles (hey, I have an '08 Sahara myself which took the #5 and #6 trails at Rousch Creek, PA factory stock) but again, that's not the intent or purpose of an overland rig. Get through however you can, the easiest trail you can find, and you've succeeded. Less is more in that case.
Indefatigable
New member
Beg to differ. Rover, and later Toyota had a much better global strategy than any of the parent companies of Jeep.
Besides, you guys tried that crusading thing back in 1812. Did not have the intended result...
sorry but, that was just an attempt to be cute with the title. the question was specifically, "what constitutes "overland" anyway" and "here in America, what exactly is "overland" wheeling and, how exactly does a Jeep built up for that differ from any other good Jeep build"? based on the conversations i've had with self-proclaimed "overland" types, there is apparently a difference and, for whatever reasons they may have, one they claim makes their rigs "better".
and, i would argue that i do all this now and can even go places that a 4wd station wagon with sufficient ground clearance could never hope to.
funny thing is, so long as i have been running my fat rock-crawling tires, i have NEVER needed to use my spare let alone look for a replacement. in fact, i have run one of these tires at almost ZERO psi for almost 100 miles without any problems. if there was a tire i had to run in a place where replacements might be difficult to find, it would be one of my fat rock-cralwing toyo's. but that's just me.
wasted money? how would they even know unless they actually had real experience running a rig with more modifications.
:cheesy: It seems clear to me that you have very little knowledge or understanding of the kind of terrain some of the early settlers were forced to conquerer as they made there way out west. Believe it or not, some of these trails still exist today and you can see them for yourself if you were so inclined to journey out to them. Some still bear the deep groves cut by wagon wheels as they were hoisted up boulder strewn ravines and, I can assure you, a so called "4wd station wagon with sufficient ground clearance" could never hope to climb. Also, it doesn't take much for nature to bitchslap even a modern paved road into a near impassible chasm. In places like the desert and even sierra nevada mountains, you see it happen all the time - unplanned and unexpected obstacles and, it is because of situations like that, i have built up my rig the way it is today.
that's a funny thing to say considering that guys like GCM 2 and myself have built up and wheeled what some would consider to be "overland" type rigs AS WELL AS what we have today. we can speak from personal experience and if anything, i would have to ask, can you?
But, as GCM 2 has said on multiple occasions, he can go anywhere an overland rig can go but, an overland rig cannot go where he can go. in spite of stereotyped understanding of what we have, we don't build our jeeps to just "challenge" them, we build them to be the best possible vehicle on and off the pavement. these are our daily drivers and they are what we use to head out into the middle of nowhere for extended periods of time. we live out of them, are fully self-sufficient and enough so that we can even help a broken down overland rig that we come across.
Maybe the trails you have back east never change, are constant and always have easy lines you can take but out in the west, a single flash flood or avalanch can wipe out any trail that once existed in an instant and, it happens all the time. when that happens, there is no less to be more to have.