Tramlining or Wandering on 35's

[cstishenko]

I didn't think balancing the tires was gonna work but it made all the difference. Driving on rutted roads now, I can feel contour of the road and the jeep will pull to one side or the other depending on the rut but it is nothing like the lane changing guessing game that is was before they were balanced correctly.

Did all 3 jeeps use the same shop to balance the tires?

Yes. All 3 done on the same day, same shop, same Roadforce Balancer, same wheel, same tire....... 3 different suspension setups.

 

[cstishenko]

Wouldn't need to be 35's to test run to verify its not steering or suspension related. You indicated it didn't do it on the 285's, so lets see....what changed?

Nothing has changed mechanically.
On mine - drove for 8,000 KM on 285/70/17 Duratrac's.
On wifes - drove for 5,000 KM on 285/70/17 Duratracs's.
On Coworkers - drove for 30,000 km on 285/70/17 Duratrac's.

No odd steering, driving or pulling on any one of the three - over the course of nearly 50,000 km combined.


Switched from 285's to 315's - and all 3 were immediately ALL over the place.



Now: We only have hair raising lane switching experiences where the ruts are really bad... But at high speed it is a constant steering battle.
By the end of a 5 hour trip - you are exhausted from trying to keep it between the lines.

 

[cstishenko]

SO...

I'm down to two thoughts:

1) The tire is pulled down SO FAR onto the narrow wheel, that the tire is losing it's square stance - losing stability. That coupled with the slightly rounded tread profile of the tire is allowing the vehicle to be affected greatly by any rut in the road.

2) The stock rubber bushings in the control arms cannot keep up to the weight and tractive forces of the new tires - allowing the axle to walk slightly as the tire grab ruts.

I don't want to buy wheels - if I am going to need control arms.
I don't want to buy control arms - if I need wheels.

 

[MedixJK]

Im not an expert, but i would say #2 is not happening. Im running 35x12.50 toyo mts (almost 80lbs) on factory wheels. Never an issue. I just pulled the front Lcas and replaced them with adjustable Evo's, but the factory bushing looks fine. Im not sure what your problem is, but i dont think its the wheel size or the control arm bushings.

 

[Rebel JK]

Nothing has changed mechanically.
On mine - drove for 8,000 KM on 285/70/17 Duratrac's.
On wifes - drove for 5,000 KM on 285/70/17 Duratracs's.
On Coworkers - drove for 30,000 km on 285/70/17 Duratrac's.

No odd steering, driving or pulling on any one of the three - over the course of nearly 50,000 km combined.


Switched from 285's to 315's - and all 3 were immediately ALL over the place.



This was the point I was trying to make. Nothing mechanically changed, but the common denominator on all 3 was the upgrade to the same tire, Then they all drove like hell. Just sayin... if the wife was scared to drive the jeep I'd find another set to borrow/try. Cheaper than a rental or worse. Just trying to help.

 

[OverlanderJK]

Changing your toe to 1/8 from 1/16 helps nothing. Just masks the problem.

 

[MedixJK]

You definately need to run a different set of tires to rule that out..

 

[cstishenko]

Just got off the phone with a Mod friendly service manager.

He says that the 13'+ JK's are coming from the factory with BARELY enough caster for OEM sized tires.
Says many "soccer moms" are complaining about lack of lane holding ability, and tendency to "wander". Their fix is cam adjustment bolts. :shock: :icon_crazy:

The suggestion has been for me to check the caster of the 3 vehicles, compare, and potentially install a set of adjustable lower front arms to bring the caster back into check.

Would like to compare my caster numbers to those who are having no issue.

 

[OverlanderJK]

Just got off the phone with a Mod friendly service manager.

He says that the 13'+ JK's are coming from the factory with BARELY enough caster for OEM sized tires.
Says many "soccer moms" are complaining about lack of lane holding ability, and tendency to "wander". Their fix is cam adjustment bolts. :shock: :icon_crazy:

The suggestion has been for me to check the caster of the 3 vehicles, compare, and potentially install a set of adjustable lower front arms to bring the caster back into check.

Would like to compare my caster numbers to those who are having no issue.

Caster should be four degrees. If you've netted more then 2.5" of lift I would assume your caster is off.

 

[cstishenko]

Caster should be four degrees. If you've netted more then 2.5" of lift I would assume your caster is off.

If you read above,
One is stock suspension
One is 1.75"
One is 2.5"

I'll post up as soon as I have my degrees

 

[OverlanderJK]

If you read above,
One is stock suspension
One is 1.75"
One is 2.5"

I'll post up as soon as I have my degrees

2.5" spring lift will probably yield more then 2.5" of lift. Hence my comment.

And actually you said two have 1.75" spacer lifts and one has a 2.5" spring lift.

 

[cstishenko]

See below, Quote from original text.

As a refresher - these are our setups as of current, and (in brackets) steps we've taken to remedy the problem.

Mine:
2014 Willys Unlimited / 6 Manual / 3.73's
1.75" Front Daystar Pucks / .75" Rear Daystar Pucks / Rancho 7000MT shocks
Rubicon Swaybar Disco w/EVO hand control / Long brakelines
All suspension torqued under vehicle weight
Spidertrax 1.5" spacers / 315/70/17 GY Duratrac tires / Willys (rubicon) Wheels
Cut Fenders/ Stubby Front Bumper
34 PSI
(Have been all over the map with tire pressure)

Wifes:
2014 Rubicon Unlimited / 5 Auto / 4.10's
1.75" Front Daystar Pucks / .75" Rear Daystar Pucks / Rancho 7000MT shocks
Rear swaybar link in the front / Long brakelines
Spidertrax 1.5" spacers / 315/70/17 GY Duratrac tires / Rubicon Wheels
Bushwacker flats/ Stubby Front Bumper / Winch on framerails
34 PSI
(Took Daystar pucks out of rear, no help. Took out of front, bringing vehicle back to 100% stock. No Help)
(Have been all over the map with tire pressure)
(Torqued all suspension under vehicle weight)

CoWorkers:
2014 RubiconX Unlimited / 6 Manual / 4.10's
AEV Dualsport XT 2.5" lift w/ Springs/ 5100's/ Geo correction brackets/ a proper lift.
All suspension torqued under vehicle weight / AEV's alignment specs
Spidertrax 1.5" spacers / 315/70/17 GY Duratrac tires / Rubicon Wheels
Stock Fenders / Mopar 10thav Bumpers/ AEV Tire carrier
36PSI
(No attempted remedy yet)

 

[OverlanderJK]

Good luck to you. Guess you don't want help.

 

[mudmobeeler]

Have you tried just rotating the tires? If it's a bad tire and you put it on back your issue might go away.

Are your wheels clean? Mud and stuff on the inside of a wheel can cause a tire to be out of balance.

I've seen multiple brand new tires be bad right off the tire truck. Anything is possible.

 

[olram30]

It's going to be one of three things,
1. Tires. All 3 have the same tire. Maybe you don't like the way they track.
2. Caster, but since even the stock one is doing the same kind of rules this out and another with drop brackets.
3. All in your head. In leaning towards this.

 

[cstishenko]

Good luck to you. Guess you don't want help.

I've replied to your comments 100% each time.
I wouldn't be here spending this time, if I wasn't looking for help.

Have you tried just rotating the tires? If it's a bad tire and you put it on back your issue might go away.

Are your wheels clean? Mud and stuff on the inside of a wheel can cause a tire to be out of balance.

I've seen multiple brand new tires be bad right off the tire truck. Anything is possible.

Yes. rotated front to back, side to side and vehicle to vehicle.

 

[RyanAZ]

I've had similar experience with stock FJ cruisers. I was the service manager at a Toyota store and spent a week fighting this. It's the tires. Between the tres pattern and width its following any slight imperfection in the road. We were working with BFG TA KO's on stock FJ's. Swapped tires with another brand new unit with the Rugged trails and the problem moved to the other truck and the original truck was fixed.

 

[cstishenko]

It's going to be one of three things,
1. Tires. All 3 have the same tire. Maybe you don't like the way they track.
2. Caster, but since even the stock one is doing the same kind of rules this out and another with drop brackets.
3. All in your head. In leaning towards this.

1. There is no way that this tire on a full sized truck would EVER track like that - or they would no longer be in production. I've owned this tire in many different sizes with no issue.

2. I will post the number as soon as I have it on each Wrangler. I have a feeling we all need to add or remove caster, being that we all added tire size.

3. I'm not the one complaining about it, as I don't drive far - or often. The wife and the coworker are the ones complaining. It was "so bad" that on a 5 hour road trip, he had to stop and take a rest because it was tiring constantly feeding steering input.

I'm looking for constructive help, not cheeky tough guy responses.

 

[cstishenko]

I've had similar experience with stock FJ cruisers. I was the service manager at a Toyota store and spent a week fighting this. It's the tires. Between the tres pattern and width its following any slight imperfection in the road. We were working with BFG TA KO's on stock FJ's. Swapped tires with another brand new unit with the Rugged trails and the problem moved to the other truck and the original truck was fixed.

Thanks for this!

So the problem followed the tire........
My immediate question is: Were the AT K/O's and the Rugged Trails of the same size on the same sized wheel?

Our problem was that we had no issue on 285/70/17's. On 315/70/17's in the same make of tire - the issues started.

 

[RyanAZ]

Yeah, same size tire, same OE wheels. I started in the auto industry 16 years ago running a Goodyear tire shop so I've seen crazier things than this.