Sleeves and gussets...when are they really needed?

Stegertime

Stegertime

Caught the Bug
I'm working on a 2.5" budget boost lift and putting 35x12.5 tires on and want to make sure I am keeping the Jeep balanced all around as it grows. I already plan on redoing the gears, but have been seeing people mention sleeves and gussets. I see a lot of people stress it is needed for sure once you hit the 37 size and above, but has anyone had experience on trails with 35s with or without the sleeves and gussets. Would love to hear peoples opinions. Thanks :D
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
You definitely want gussets with 35's or bigger as you can bend your c's just driving around town. Sleeves are not necessary and people only stress their need because it's what they've been told they need. I can assure you that if you play hard enough, you will still bend your axle tubes with or without sleeves or even a truss. Rather than waste more money than you need on beefing up your axle housings, you'd be better off saving your money until you can afford a ProRock 44 or better. If you're determined to keep your factory axle, spend your money where it'll actually make a difference - get chromoly shafts with full circle clips. You bend a housing and you can still drive just fine. you break a shaft and you could have a bad day.
 
utiadam

utiadam

LOSER
Most people on here will tell you to do the gussets only. Sleeves or a truss will not prevent you from bending the axle. Better to save the money for a PR44. There is actually a good chance of damaging the axle during the welding of a truss if not done slowly.
 
David1tontj

David1tontj

New member
Like Eddie said... Do c gussets and maybe internal parts, but ideally just get a different axle.

My brother played into the hype of the sleeves an gussets. He got both, ran 35" tires, never really hammered on it, and still bent his front rubicon 44. He ended up finally replacing it with a dynatrac pr44 and loves it. Not only is it stronger, but his jk handles better now that the geometry of the axle is made specifically for his lift height.

This is one case where it actually will cost you more to be cheap.


My ride- 2001 power wheel, 11" plastic tires, upgraded battery, boat sides, custom bumpers, tow hooks, new paint.
 
Dukes_of_C.Rock

Dukes_of_C.Rock

New member
wayoflife said:
You definitely want gussets with 35's or bigger as you can bend your c's just driving around town. Sleeves are not necessary and people only stress their need because it's what they've been told they need. I can assure you that if you play hard enough, you will still bend your axle tubes with or without sleeves or even a truss. Rather than waste more money than you need on beefing up your axle housings, you'd be better off saving your money until you can afford a ProRock 44 or better. If you're determined to keep your factory axle, spend your money where it'll actually make a difference - get chromoly shafts with full circle clips. You bend a housing and you can still drive just fine. you break a shaft and you could have a bad day.
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What ^^^^ he said! I'm taking his advice and mine are being done next week.
 
t8er

t8er

New member
Just jumping in here. I've got the stock rubicon Dana 44 Axle. Im putting on 35's but yes in the future was looking at 37's. How have they held up with better axles, sleeved axle tubes and C gussets with 37's. If I end up liking these trail grapplers then it'll be 37" trail grapplers. I love the idea of a Pro Rock 44 but it's about $2700 last I looked.
 
Stegertime

Stegertime

Caught the Bug
wayoflife said:
You definitely want gussets with 35's or bigger as you can bend your c's just driving around town. Sleeves are not necessary and people only stress their need because it's what they've been told they need. I can assure you that if you play hard enough, you will still bend your axle tubes with or without sleeves or even a truss. Rather than waste more money than you need on beefing up your axle housings, you'd be better off saving your money until you can afford a ProRock 44 or better. If you're determined to keep your factory axle, spend your money where it'll actually make a difference - get chromoly shafts with full circle clips. You bend a housing and you can still drive just fine. you break a shaft and you could have a bad day.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much this is exactly what I was looking to find out, thank you so much! Have you happened to hear if the ball joints are a necessary change when doing gussets? I have seen some mentions of temperature affecting them during welding. I have a 2014 if that matters
 
Stegertime

Stegertime

Caught the Bug
Thank you everyone for the input here, seems like there is a definite consensus with the group, I'll be purchasing the gussets and putting pennies in the bank for the ProRock down the road. Much appreciated!

:rock:
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
t8er said:
Just jumping in here. I've got the stock rubicon Dana 44 Axle. Im putting on 35's but yes in the future was looking at 37's. How have they held up with better axles, sleeved axle tubes and C gussets with 37's. If I end up liking these trail grapplers then it'll be 37" trail grapplers. I love the idea of a Pro Rock 44 but it's about $2700 last I looked.
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First, what you need to understand is that the Rubicon Dana 44 front axle is really just a Dana 30 housing with a 44 diff and shafts. In other words, the tubes, axle c's and knuckles are exactly the same and the tiny thin tubes will bend if you play hard enough. If you sleeve or truss it, it'll just bend where it meets the differential. How do I know? I've seen it time and time again over the last 7+ years both on my Jeeps and on others. Yes, a ProRock 44 is pricey but, that's because it's better than a REAL Dana 44. So, rather than waste money beefing up your axle housing, I would recommend you save you money until you need or can afford a true upgrade. But, that's just me.
 
utiadam

utiadam

LOSER
t8er said:
Just jumping in here. I've got the stock rubicon Dana 44 Axle. Im putting on 35's but yes in the future was looking at 37's. How have they held up with better axles, sleeved axle tubes and C gussets with 37's. If I end up liking these trail grapplers then it'll be 37" trail grapplers. I love the idea of a Pro Rock 44 but it's about $2700 last I looked.
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If you do sleeve the axle housing I believe you lose options on axle shafts you can run. If you ever decide to change to an ARB locker I think they require a 35 spline shaft which wont fit in the sleeved housing.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
ProjectYeti said:
Thank you so much this is exactly what I was looking to find out, thank you so much! Have you happened to hear if the ball joints are a necessary change when doing gussets? I have seen some mentions of temperature affecting them during welding. I have a 2014 if that matters
Click to expand...

Pulling your ball joints prior to installing C-gussets is a good idea. That, or replacing them with better ball joints is what I would recommend. while you can install them without damage to the ball joints, it takes a LOT longer to do and a lot of quenching is required by a skilled welder.
 
t8er

t8er

New member
wayoflife said:
First, what you need to understand is that the Rubicon Dana 44 front axle is really just a Dana 30 housing with a 44 diff and shafts. In other words, the tubes, axle c's and knuckles are exactly the same and the tiny thin tubes will bend if you play hard enough. If you sleeve or truss it, it'll just bend where it meets the differential. How do I know? I've seen it time and time again over the last 7+ years both on my Jeeps and on others. Yes, a ProRock 44 is pricey but, that's because it's better than a REAL Dana 44. So, rather than waste money beefing up your axle housing, I would recommend you save you money until you need or can afford a true upgrade. But, that's just me.
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Got it. I may do those other items in the meantime anyways with 35's. Basically it'd be a holdover until that point. I'm learning that Just Empty Every Pocket is for real. however I do want it to be an awesome trail rig that is reliable. Thank you.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
t8er said:
Got it. I may do those other items in the meantime anyways with 35's. Basically it'd be a holdover until that point. I'm learning that Just Empty Every Pocket is for real. however I do want it to be an awesome trail rig that is reliable. Thank you.
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It's your money. :yup:
 
utiadam

utiadam

LOSER
wayoflife said:
Pulling your ball joints prior to installing C-gussets is a good idea. That, or replacing them with better ball joints is what I would recommend. while you can install them without damage to the ball joints, it takes a LOT longer to do and a lot of quenching is required by a skilled welder.
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I agree. We didn't take my ball joints out but it definitely slowed down the process keeping them cool.
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jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
t8er said:
Just jumping in here. I've got the stock rubicon Dana 44 Axle. Im putting on 35's but yes in the future was looking at 37's. How have they held up with better axles, sleeved axle tubes and C gussets with 37's. If I end up liking these trail grapplers then it'll be 37" trail grapplers. I love the idea of a Pro Rock 44 but it's about $2700 last I looked.
Click to expand...

the price is relative depending on which PR44 you get and how many upgrades you get on it. you can recoup some of the cost by selling your D44. I had my D44 pre-sold but with the accident I went with a Rubicon PR44 housing (<$2200) and swapped all my D44 parts into it. I had just installed Ten Factory shafts, new hubs and ball joints on my D44 and wasn't ready to upgrade everything so soon, but it'll let me run 37's and play just fine :beer:
 
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Stegertime

Stegertime

Caught the Bug
wayoflife said:
Pulling your ball joints prior to installing C-gussets is a good idea. That, or replacing them with better ball joints is what I would recommend. while you can install them without damage to the ball joints, it takes a LOT longer to do and a lot of quenching is required by a skilled welder.
Click to expand...

Perfect, thanks for the tip, I will make sure that is the way it's done! Cheers
 
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