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View Full Version : Jeep JK Wrangler Grade 8 Replacement Bolts - Do I Really Need Them?



wayoflife
10-13-2014, 03:10 PM
I know there are a lot of people on the internet who really sound like they know what they're talking about and will tell you that you need to replace your factory 10.9 metric track bar bolt with a new 9/16" grade 8 shouldered one. And, I know there are even a few reputable vendors out there who sell whole grade 8 replacement bolts kits as if there's something wrong with all your factory bolts, BUT, I'm hear to tell you to NOT buy into the stupidness and save your money. Just because it's said on the internet doesn't make it true and let's face it, vendors are in the business of making a buck - they will sell you whatever it is you are willing to buy. Fact of the matter is, there nothing wrong with your factory bolts, they are the right size, they don't need to be shouldered and Chrysler purposefully put them on your Jeep for a reason.

To put things into perspective, you need to know that there are over 1,000,000 Jeep JK Wranglers out there on the roads today and 99% of them or more are still running these so called "wrong size bolts", for about the last 8 years now and without ANY issues. If all these bolts are really the wrong size, you would think it would be all over the news and some kind of recall issued by now. What the naysayers don't understand is that if bolt size were really the only thing that mattered in keeping things from moving around, there would be no need for torque settings.

Still not convinced? Let's take a closer look at how things work. When you look at the bushing of your track bar or control arms, the metal piece in the middle where your bolt will go through is called a "crush sleeve". AS IN, it's designed to get pushed really really hard from either end. The purpose of your bolts and nuts is to provide "compression" and cause your mounts to act like a vice by clamping down really really hard on the crush sleeve. The crush sleeves is NOT supposed to rotate AT ALL when installed correctly but rather, the bonded rubber bushing will twist around it. Of course, if you have a polyurethane bushing, heim or other aftermarket joint, the bushing will rotate around the sleeve or misalignment spacers - again, there is NO movement around the bolt and therefore, shouldered bolts are NOT necessary. This is the reason why bolts are rated for "torque" and NOT "sheer" - the value of compression strength is all that is necessary to hold things together. Don't believe me? Place a pencil between your index finger and thumb and hold it in the air. Why doesn't the pencil fall? I mean, there's no bolt going though your finger and thumb to hold it in place. Pinch it harder and it will even take effort to move the pencil around. Imagine that - compression alone made that possible. :crazyeyes:

If you really want to spend money on your Jeep, invest in a good torque wrench and use it as a part of regular maintenance. :yup:

Big b
10-13-2014, 06:00 PM
I don't normally post because I feel like I have a hard time putting my thoughts down. I also do not have near the offroad experience as a lot of people on here. What I do have is a background in automotive mechanics and engineering and now work in the natural gas industry which puts a lot of emphasis on fastener safety (I have been to week long courses about proper nut and bolt usage). With what little knowledge I have on the subject I can assure you that Jeep engineers put more thought into using non shouldered bolts into these bushings locations than any home mechanic ever will. A bolt is a "spring" and once torqued to it's design point or stretched it wants to relax back to it's original length, fastening the joint. To get the proper spring tension a lot of engineering goes into bolt design, I'm not sure but believe this is why full threaded bolts are used in these situations. When you use very high grade bots in shorter lengths it's actually harder to get the needed stretch or tension applied. For this reason in the Natural gas industry when fastening down high pressure pipe, vessels, or machinery we don't use the largest diameter, shortest, and highest grade bolt, but instead use several smaller diameter, longer, and the correct grade to give us the most clamping tension. Eddie is 100% right in the fact that the bolt is not designed for sheer, they are not axles and are not the parts that were engineered to accept the side load. The side load is handled by the sleeve and bushing, and is only fastened in place by a properly torqued bolt. When you decide to use shoulder bolts (especially high grade) you are bringing in some unknowns that weren't engineered into the system. These may in fact require a lot more torque to hold tension and not loosen, This could damage the crush sleeve, bushing, heim joint, or whatever else was not designed to be crushed as hard. I'm not saying that these grade 8 "upgrade" bolt kits do not work and solve some peoples issues. More than likely you are just masking the fact of improper torque. I just believe those issues could be solved with the factory bolts, proper torque, and maintenance. A better purchase would be a quality torque wrench.

GCM 2
10-13-2014, 07:02 PM
I don't normally post because I feel like I have a hard time putting my thoughts down. I also do not have near the offroad experience as a lot of people on here. What I do have is a background in automotive mechanics and engineering and now work in the natural gas industry which puts a lot of emphasis on fastener safety (I have been to week long courses about proper nut and bolt usage). With what little knowledge I have on the subject I can assure you that Jeep engineers put more thought into using non shouldered bolts into these bushings locations than any home mechanic ever will. A bolt is a "spring" and once torqued to it's design point or stretched it wants to relax back to it's original length, fastening the joint. To get the proper spring tension a lot of engineering goes into bolt design, I'm not sure but believe this is why full threaded bolts are used in these situations. When you use very high grade bots in shorter lengths it's actually harder to get the needed stretch or tension applied. For this reason in the Natural gas industry when fastening down high pressure pipe, vessels, or machinery we don't use the largest diameter, shortest, and highest grade bolt, but instead use several smaller diameter, longer, and the correct grade to give us the most clamping tension. Eddie is 100% right in the fact that the bolt is not designed for sheer, they are not axles and are not the parts that were engineered to accept the side load. The side load is handled by the sleeve and bushing, and is only fastened in place by a properly torqued bolt. When you decide to use shoulder bolts (especially high grade) you are bringing in some unknowns that weren't engineered into the system. These may in fact require a lot more torque to hold tension and not loosen, This could damage the crush sleeve, bushing, heim joint, or whatever else was not designed to be crushed as hard. I'm not saying that these grade 8 "upgrade" bolt kits do not work and solve some peoples issues. More than likely you are just masking the fact of improper torque. I just believe those issues could be solved with the factory bolts, proper torque, and maintenance. A better purchase would be a quality torque wrench.


Thank you Big b,

Along with Eddie's earlier post, this is by far the best detailed explanation of "using a proper fastener" ever to grace the forum. If anyone disputes this well written, factual logic you should be kick in the genital region repeatedly for continuing to argue your ridiculous shade tree mechanic rhetoric.

Please lock this thread Admin.

JayKay
10-13-2014, 07:36 PM
Thank you Big b,

Along with Eddie's earlier post, this is by far the best detailed explanation of "using a proper fastener" ever to grace the forum. If anyone disputes this well written, factual logic you should be kick in the genital region repeatedly for continuing to argue your ridiculous shade tree mechanic rhetoric.

Please lock this thread Admin.
So true!!! Post definitely needs to be locked!

BChaffins
10-13-2014, 09:19 PM
I seem to always learn a lot from the Wayalife forums and even though it seems to get heated at times sometimes causing a little friction brings out the best.

This has been a good learning experience and for the cost of a few bolts I feel its been worth the ride. And now I own a ball joint puller which can't be a bad thing either. If my wobble is still there in a day or two I'll be heading down the ball joint road I'm sure. Everything else seems to be secure and is properly torqued. I own a fairly good Utica micrometer style torque wrench and it has never failed me yet.

wayoflife
10-13-2014, 11:03 PM
Thank you Big b for your most insightful follow up to my post. It was so insightful that I felt that this whole discussion needed to be it's own thread so that others can benefit from it and save their money. :cool:

OverlanderJK
10-13-2014, 11:19 PM
I did the grade 8 upgrade. Didn't do anything except thread my control arm bushings. I went back to stock.

End thread.

sean.m.adams33
10-13-2014, 11:22 PM
Good thing I read this right before I clicked buy on amazon prime! But seriously, thanks Eddie, I too have wondered about doing the bolt upgrade mod.

ralphie
10-14-2014, 02:55 AM
Thank you Eddie, good info. I was on track to buy the grade 8 bolt kit till i read this post.

CharlieK
10-14-2014, 03:36 AM
These were on my list of up grades that still needed to do. Thanks Eddie for saving me on this one.

maxcustody
10-14-2014, 09:38 AM
Thanks for some great info.

Linebacker
10-14-2014, 02:54 PM
Informative writeups like this are the reason I became and have stayed a member.:yup: Besides, I don't want a shot to the group by Greg.:naw:

CrunchyPeanutbutter
10-14-2014, 04:51 PM
If its not broke dont fix it.

wayoflife
10-14-2014, 04:53 PM
If its not broke dont fix it.

Depending on who you're talking to, some will tell you that the factory bolts are broke. Or, at least, they are the wrong size :crazyeyes:

CrunchyPeanutbutter
10-14-2014, 06:50 PM
Depending on who you're talking to, some will tell you that the factory bolts are broke. Or, at least, they are the wrong size :crazyeyes:

I hear you.

I compiled a list and put together my own kit instead of buying one of the ones marketed and as it turned out, one of the supposedly undersized bolts and the self proclaimed experts said I had wasn't undersized at all. In other words, I went and got bolts I really didn't need because I believed what I read online.

Silver Surfer
10-14-2014, 11:04 PM
I hear you.

I compiled a list and put together my own kit instead of buying one of the ones marketed and as it turned out, one of the supposedly undersized bolts and the self proclaimed experts said I had wasn't undersized at all. In other words, I went and got bolts I really didn't need because I believed what I read online.


^ This is the same for me. I had no clue what 10.9 meant on a bolt I know grade ratings but not the standard ratings. So i drank the cool aid on this one. I still have not installed them. But I will keep for a rainy day for the unlikely event I may need one on the trail. I did happen to run into a guy who broke a motor mount so I handed him a couple bolts and nuts and he was fixed. So my money was not totally wasted.

catahoula
10-15-2014, 12:08 AM
Thanks for the post! As mentioned I was contemplating this too. Torgue wrench a plus. I do not have a high quality one....HF, but I have followed Eddie's torque specs and have had absolutely no problems at all. My rig is not highly modified. I always read about owners installing suspension kits that have problems. The first thing I always think about is did they torque correctly.

MTG
10-15-2014, 04:43 AM
Thank you Big b,

Along with Eddie's earlier post, this is by far the best detailed explanation of "using a proper fastener" ever to grace the forum. If anyone disputes this well written, factual logic you should be kick in the genital region repeatedly for continuing to argue your ridiculous shade tree mechanic rhetoric.

Please lock this thread Admin.


Thank you Big b for your most insightful follow up to my post. It was so insightful that I felt that this whole discussion needed to be it's own thread so that others can benefit from it and save their money. :cool:

Wait a minute….

Wasn't there some guy or "man with a plan" that had this all figured out? Pretty sure he trailered his jeep to wherever he "wheeled hard" and then posted about it? :idontknow:

Seriously though, I want to hear from the AEV fans who have replaced their factory bolts in light of their research…

On the one hand they taught the advantage of having an AEV lift as being designed by "former" jeep engineers, yet would replace their factory bolts (also designed by jeep engineers) for some after market bolts promulgated by a few "for profit companies" and the aforementioned expert? :idontknow:

jedg
10-21-2014, 06:21 PM
I don't normally post because I feel like I have a hard time putting my thoughts down. I also do not have near the offroad experience as a lot of people on here. What I do have is a background in automotive mechanics and engineering and now work in the natural gas industry which puts a lot of emphasis on fastener safety (I have been to week long courses about proper nut and bolt usage). With what little knowledge I have on the subject I can assure you that Jeep engineers put more thought into using non shouldered bolts into these bushings locations than any home mechanic ever will. A bolt is a "spring" and once torqued to it's design point or stretched it wants to relax back to it's original length, fastening the joint. To get the proper spring tension a lot of engineering goes into bolt design, I'm not sure but believe this is why full threaded bolts are used in these situations. When you use very high grade bots in shorter lengths it's actually harder to get the needed stretch or tension applied. For this reason in the Natural gas industry when fastening down high pressure pipe, vessels, or machinery we don't use the largest diameter, shortest, and highest grade bolt, but instead use several smaller diameter, longer, and the correct grade to give us the most clamping tension. Eddie is 100% right in the fact that the bolt is not designed for sheer, they are not axles and are not the parts that were engineered to accept the side load. The side load is handled by the sleeve and bushing, and is only fastened in place by a properly torqued bolt. When you decide to use shoulder bolts (especially high grade) you are bringing in some unknowns that weren't engineered into the system. These may in fact require a lot more torque to hold tension and not loosen, This could damage the crush sleeve, bushing, heim joint, or whatever else was not designed to be crushed as hard. I'm not saying that these grade 8 "upgrade" bolt kits do not work and solve some peoples issues. More than likely you are just masking the fact of improper torque. I just believe those issues could be solved with the factory bolts, proper torque, and maintenance. A better purchase would be a quality torque wrench.

Eh... I posted this in another thread.. it's more appropriate here.

Not sure it's been brought up before... the difference between the two bolts (14mm and 9/16") is just 11/1000ths of an inch.

FWIW, I have 78,000 on my stock bolts and no issues and won't switch as I see no reason to. BUT, I thought I would educate myself on the real differences between the two bolts.

As for the difference between Grade 8 and Metric 10.9; I looked at SAE J429 and ISO 898.1 (2013 version). I think it's a wash and so I don't think the argument that the 9/16th bolt is 'better' holds water. If anything, if you're not careful and use the course thread 9/16 (12 threads per inch), you might exceed the torque capacity of the bolt you're using.

I know one argument will be the shoulder present on the 9/16" bolt will make it stronger. Mechanically this is a wash as the threaded area portion will still be the weak point on the bolt. (per http://www.fastenal.com/content/docu...renceGuide.pdf (http://www.fastenal.com/content/documents/FastenalTechnicalReferenceGuide.pdf)).

The next argument for the shouldered bolt is that the shoulder works as a pivot point for rotation. I will argue that if the bolt is properly torqued, this isn't rotated upon. Rather the bushing (that surrounds the bolt) is held in place and the joint rotates around that. This would especially be true with aftermarket joints??

ISO 10.9
Med Carbon Alloy Steel, quenched and tempered
Tensile Strength - minimum 1040 mPa (150,000 psi)
14mm (M14 x 2.00) has a torque load up to 160 ft lbs dry

SAE Grade 8
Med Carbon Alloy Steel, quenched and tempered
Tensile Strength - 150,000 psi (1040 mPa)
9/16" (with 12 threads per inch) has a torque load up to 135 ft lbs dry
9/16" (with 18 threads per inch) has a torque load up to 150 ft lbs dry

Also, both have the same proof load (working tensile strength) of 130,000 psi (900 mPa)

wayoflife
10-21-2014, 06:27 PM
Great follow up and great info but I can guarantee you that there will still be plenty of people out there who will still feel the need to buy replacement bolts and just because there are morons on the internet that sound like they know what they're talking about and say that they are needed.

Charlie Mike
10-21-2014, 06:53 PM
But the Grade 8 bolts are a nice Gold color! :crazyeyes:

2007blackJk
10-21-2014, 07:27 PM
But the Grade 8 bolts are a nice Gold color! :crazyeyes:

Match metal cloak components win win :D

olram30
10-21-2014, 07:50 PM
Match metal cloak components win win :D

Like this gold?

2007blackJk
10-21-2014, 08:02 PM
Like this gold?

W........T........F. Just a little bent.

ridg3runner
10-21-2014, 08:19 PM
Like this gold?

Now that's sexy!! That's pic of the year material right there, lol

wayoflife
10-21-2014, 09:04 PM
Like this gold?

LOL!! At least this Jeep can laugh at its own "joke" ;)

wayoflife
10-21-2014, 09:04 PM
Now that's sexy!! That's pic of the year material right there, lol

Sexy like this...
106282

stweasel
10-21-2014, 10:06 PM
106290

That was Flava's Jeep?

JeepFan
10-22-2014, 12:06 AM
I don't know about some of you guys but I go out of my way to collect the factory nuts and bolts others throw away. :yup::crazyeyes:
With proper maintenance and regularly checking the torque, you can't beat the factory fasteners. :thumb:

Sharkey
10-22-2014, 12:22 AM
I don't know about some of you guys but I go out of my way to collect the factory nuts and bolts others throw away. :yup::crazyeyes:
With proper maintenance and regularly checking the torque, you can't beat the factory fasteners. :thumb:

Agreed. I also save all of the extra hardware that comes with aftermarket stuff.

mudmobeeler
10-22-2014, 02:15 AM
Would the grade 8 package through a vendor be worthwhile to purchase to have in the jeep as spare parts in the "event" something happened while on the trail? Sure you could either go back to the factory and order all the bolts or even go to your hardware store and buy them once you figure out which ones you need. Or.....you could make one phone call or a couple of mouse clicks and have them coming. Not saying they are needed just wondering if they would be handy to have in case. I personally haven't heard or seen any of those fail. Just like to be prepared as much as possible. Or is it a complete waste of time and money even for that?

Sharkey
10-22-2014, 02:23 AM
Find someone getting rid of their stockers.

mudmobeeler
10-22-2014, 02:26 AM
Find someone getting rid of their stockers.

Or that, I brain farted and didn't put that. By the time I came back to add it, you already did. Lol.

frenchjk
12-16-2014, 07:52 PM
How ironic that this post exists, and that one of the supporters of the forum is Northridge who sells a Grade 8 kit "upgraded with two m14 bolts for the 12+ JK(U) front track bar"........:yup:

for us in Europe metric is the way to go......a JK is easy to wrench 100% in metric, why change?

wayoflife
12-16-2014, 07:57 PM
How ironic that this post exists, and that one of the supporters of the forum is Northridge who sells a Grade 8 kit "upgraded with two m14 bolts for the 12+ JK(U) front track bar"........:yup:

for us in Europe metric is the way to go......a JK is easy to wrench 100% in metric, why change?

Nothing ironic about it - I just like to tell it like it is. Likewise, our supporting vendors simply sell what people want to buy. People can decide for themselves what they want to do with their money :yup:

OverlanderJK
12-16-2014, 08:22 PM
How ironic that this post exists, and that one of the supporters of the forum is Northridge who sells a Grade 8 kit "upgraded with two m14 bolts for the 12+ JK(U) front track bar"........:yup:

for us in Europe metric is the way to go......a JK is easy to wrench 100% in metric, why change?

Northridge is a business. They sell stuff to make money. Dumbasses buy the grade 8 bolt kit which makes them money. How is that ironic?

Wardell
12-16-2014, 09:05 PM
for us in Europe metric is the way to go......a JK is easy to wrench 100% in metric, why change?

Europe? There are only three countries left in the world that haven't caught on to the metric system yet: Burma, Liberia, and the US... :p

dannymalkin
12-16-2014, 09:30 PM
Too late Eddie. I already bought it last year.... I fell into the marketing grrrrr

srosario
01-05-2015, 06:07 PM
These were on my list of up grades that still needed to do. Thanks Eddie for saving me on this one.

me too, save me some money, feel like donating it to the website. lol

srosario
02-03-2015, 07:14 PM
Ok so I broke the rear track bolt that the vehicle had, do I replace it with a stock one or just buy the aftermarket one?

wayoflife
02-03-2015, 07:22 PM
Ok so I broke the rear track bolt that the vehicle had, do I replace it with a stock one or just buy the aftermarket one?

Why does it have a cam washer welded on to it and, how did you get one on to the bolt in the first place?

srosario
02-04-2015, 04:39 AM
I bought the vehicle used, and it has a rear track bar relocation bracket, I'm assuming that bolt came with the kit as is. When I try to re torque it to 125lbs it broke, so I need a replacement.

wayoflife
02-04-2015, 02:37 PM
I bought the vehicle used, and it has a rear track bar relocation bracket, I'm assuming that bolt came with the kit as is. When I try to re torque it to 125lbs it broke, so I need a replacement.

What you're looking at is an aftermarket cam bolt and one that may only be a grade 5 or 8.8 instead of a 10.9. Unless there's a reason why you can't install a factory replacement (mount notched or altered to be used with the other bolt), that's what I would use or, a grade 8 of similar size.

UncensoredAggression
02-04-2015, 05:29 PM
I purchased my beadlocks used. They came with grade 8 bolts. Does it make a difference on the rims? Should I change them out?

srosario
02-05-2015, 09:24 AM
What you're looking at is an aftermarket cam bolt and one that may only be a grade 5 or 8.8 instead of a 10.9. Unless there's a reason why you can't install a factory replacement (mount notched or altered to be used with the other bolt), that's what I would use or, a grade 8 of similar size.

ok, thanks, just order the factory bolt today. hopefully it would fit properly, and wont have to get that cam bolt that broke.

CJW
02-05-2015, 06:46 PM
ok, thanks, just order the factory bolt today. hopefully it would fit properly, and wont have to get that cam bolt that broke.

I would think you'd need a new trackbar bracket if you're ditching the cam bolt?

srosario
02-06-2015, 12:01 AM
I would think you'd need a new trackbar bracket if you're ditching the cam bolt?

Why is that?

CJW
02-06-2015, 03:35 AM
Why is that?

Maybe I'm not following correctly but the cam bolt came out of your track bar bracket at the axle right? If so, the hole in the bracket is wider than the bolt. The misalignment washer on the bolt you broke sits between some tabs on the bracket right? So as you turn the cam bolt it pushes or pulls the axle left or right for aligning it under the vehicle. If you keep this style of track bar bracket and you put a regular bolt in it, it won't have the washer to take up the space between those tabs. This would allow the bolt to slide around in the mount.
Or am I misunderstanding the style of track bar bracket you have?

srosario
02-06-2015, 05:03 PM
Maybe I'm not following correctly but the cam bolt came out of your track bar bracket at the axle right? If so, the hole in the bracket is wider than the bolt. The misalignment washer on the bolt you broke sits between some tabs on the bracket right? So as you turn the cam bolt it pushes or pulls the axle left or right for aligning it under the vehicle. If you keep this style of track bar bracket and you put a regular bolt in it, it won't have the washer to take up the space between those tabs. This would allow the bolt to slide around in the mount.
Or am I misunderstanding the style of track bar bracket you have?

No that's the exact track bar bracket I have, it has two taps next to the opening. We're can i get the cam bolt. I don't know who makes the trackbar as the vehicle came with it.

CJW
02-06-2015, 10:58 PM
No that's the exact track bar bracket I have, it has two taps next to the opening. We're can i get the cam bolt. I don't know who makes the trackbar as the vehicle came with it.

I have no idea who makes that style of track bar, just know that I've seen them before. After thinking about it, if you used an OEM bolt and found a regular washer to fit the opening between the tabs and fits snugly on the bolt it may work. You'd lose the side to side adjustability but it may work.
I'd try "googling" cam track bar bracket and see what comes up. That may lead you to the cam bolt you'd need.
Just know I'm not 100% sure on this. Just listing what I would try.

CJW
02-06-2015, 11:06 PM
A quick google search lead me to this:
http://offroadwarehouse.com/i-11644155-synergy-jeep-jk-front-track-bar-bracket-w-cam-bolt-adj.html
It's a front bracket but you get the point.
You could just keep looking like that for the bracket that matches yours to find the manufacturer.
Honestly though, if it were me I buy a whole new trackbar bracket that doesn't use a cam bolt. They can move out of alignment when taking a decent hit offroad. Again, just what I personally would do/try. I'm not the all knowing authority on everything jeep.

cozdude
02-06-2015, 11:13 PM
If you torque the factory bolts down to there proper setting (125 ft/lb) you don't need any extra washers or anything. Cam bolts and grade 8 bolts on suspension parts are snake oil just like outer axle seals.

frenchjk
02-07-2015, 10:30 AM
I purchased my beadlocks used. They came with grade 8 bolts. Does it make a difference on the rims? Should I change them out?

keep those grade 8 bolts.....as long as they are not mashed up

n3tfury
03-31-2015, 04:13 AM
Glad I read the first two posts before considering going down "that" road. Thanks guys.

J.B.
03-31-2015, 04:32 AM
A 10.9 metric bolt is equivalent in strength to a grade 8 SAE bolt. They have approx. the same tensile strength. It is a complete waste of time to re-thread and convert unless upsizing the bolt for a larger diameter one which would ultimately weaken the bore but the bolt would take more load due to its increased size. It's basic mechanics.

JRied
03-31-2015, 05:56 PM
I bought the vehicle used, and it has a rear track bar relocation bracket, I'm assuming that bolt came with the kit as is. When I try to re torque it to 125lbs it broke, so I need a replacement.

Hey what ever happened with replacing this bolt? As you know my jeep came with it as well. Any updates on if you were able to use a factory or grade 8 etc etc???

Jeepfan30
04-16-2015, 01:05 AM
I wish I would have read this a year ago, before I got my Grade 8 bolts. Removed my control arms to sell them and one of the grade 8 bolts threaded itself into my RK control arm bushing. Had to cut the bolt with sawzall to remove the arm. Now I have one control arms that can't be mounted until I get the bolt out of the bushing.

Patmasterflash
06-23-2015, 05:25 PM
I don't know......I'v had a few bolts break off while loosening or tightening. Specifically, my tensioner belt housing bolt broke and it was quite an ordeal to remove. I think the stronger bolts will at least give you some piece of mind.

jedg
06-23-2015, 05:26 PM
I don't know......I'v had a few bolts break off while loosening or tightening. Specifically, my tensioner belt housing bolt broke and it was quite an ordeal to remove. I think the stronger bolts will at least give you some piece of mind.


That's just it. They AREN'T stronger.

jnabird333
06-23-2015, 07:04 PM
I don't know......I'v had a few bolts break off while loosening or tightening. Specifically, my tensioner belt housing bolt broke and it was quite an ordeal to remove. I think the stronger bolts will at least give you some piece of mind.


That's just it. They AREN'T stronger.

And if they were they would be more brittle and prone to breaking. A softer bolt isn't always a bad thing. They will allow for some stretch. A hard bolt will not and is far more brittle.

But to jedg's point. They aren't...

Patmasterflash
06-24-2015, 04:55 AM
Hmm I stand corrected. I'm glad I read this before changing

YellowJK
10-09-2015, 12:12 AM
Didn't read the whole thread but I actually replaced every single bolt with Grade 8 except uppers. That goes for Sway bar links, shocks, everything under.

Every trip something seemed to happen. Whether that was a trac bolt came loose or a sway bar link, almost everything did at one point. After the switch, nothing has and nor do I hear some of those annoying noises I used to. I tell everyone it was the best little mod I've done.

10frank9
10-09-2015, 12:30 AM
Didn't read the whole thread but I actually replaced every single bolt with Grade 8 except uppers. That goes for Sway bar links, shocks, everything under.

Every trip something seemed to happen. Whether that was a trac bolt came loose or a sway bar link, almost everything did at one point. After the switch, nothing has and nor do I hear some of those annoying noises I used to. I tell everyone it was the best little mod I've done.

Sorry to break it to you, but if you read the FIRST post you would've read that Grade 8 bolts are not needed. If you regularly maintain your jeep which means you are checking torque regularly you a shouldn't see any bolts loosening. That is unless you are wheeling, In which case you should be checking and adjusting torque as things have a way of working themselves loose.

munstie
10-09-2015, 12:32 AM
The first few posts of thus thread are spot on, but as luck would have it there will still be arguments that they are better.

wayoflife
10-09-2015, 12:37 AM
Didn't read the whole thread but I actually replaced every single bolt with Grade 8 except uppers. That goes for Sway bar links, shocks, everything under.

Every trip something seemed to happen. Whether that was a trac bolt came loose or a sway bar link, almost everything did at one point. After the switch, nothing has and nor do I hear some of those annoying noises I used to. I tell everyone it was the best little mod I've done.

Damn, Northridge is really good at sell you stuff! Well, if it helps you to sleep better at night believing your investment in bolts that you never needed in the first place was a worthy one, you keep believing just that. :yup:

BTW, can I have your old factory bolts? I'd be more than happy to pay for shipping :yup:

MR.Ty
10-09-2015, 12:45 AM
Didn't read the whole thread but I actually replaced every single bolt with Grade 8 except uppers. That goes for Sway bar links, shocks, everything under.

Every trip something seemed to happen. Whether that was a trac bolt came loose or a sway bar link, almost everything did at one point. After the switch, nothing has and nor do I hear some of those annoying noises I used to. I tell everyone it was the best little mod I've done.

Checking the torque of your suspension components, prior to wheeling, was to difficult?

Sharkey
10-09-2015, 02:14 AM
Didn't read the whole thread but I actually replaced every single bolt with Grade 8 except uppers. That goes for Sway bar links, shocks, everything under.

Every trip something seemed to happen. Whether that was a trac bolt came loose or a sway bar link, almost everything did at one point. After the switch, nothing has and nor do I hear some of those annoying noises I used to. I tell everyone it was the best little mod I've done.

If you really want to complete the package, add some sleeves and gussets.

JAGS
10-09-2015, 02:55 AM
If you really want to complete the package, add some sleeves and gussets.

No truss????

Sharkey
10-09-2015, 04:04 AM
Sorry. I meant trusses, not gussets.

munstie
10-09-2015, 04:06 AM
Sorry. I meant trusses, not gussets.

And I thought you were really being helpful:o

dchew
10-24-2015, 12:31 PM
One other point about the factory bolts: Those pretty gold grade 8 bolts are cadmium plated. The factory bolts have some sort of galvanized coating (I think). Swap out just one factory bolt for one of those cad plated bolts, drive around for a winter in salt, then try to take it off and compare it with the factory bolt. I bet you will never do that again.

The coating on the factory bolts is significantly more resistant to the environment. As Eddie often says, "Ask me how I know."

Here is a cad plated aftermarket nut. One winter...

Dave

170672

YellowJK
10-29-2015, 06:13 PM
Checking the torque of your suspension components, prior to wheeling, was to difficult?

When you go every weekend, yes.

Northridge said I didn't need them by the way. They said the same things all of you guys are saying. I have not had anything come loose now. Before it seemed like every trip. Maybe it doesn't work for you guys, but it did for me.

wayoflife
10-29-2015, 06:29 PM
When you go every weekend, yes.

Northridge said I didn't need them by the way. They said the same things all of you guys are saying. I have not had anything come loose now. Before it seemed like every trip. Maybe it doesn't work for you guys, but it did for me.


Well, that explains it! As everyone knows, I never go wheeling so really, what would I know about any of this.

I'm pretty sure I had asked before but, could I have your old factory bolts? You know, the ones you seem to think are junk? I'll pay for shipping :yup:

MR.Ty
10-29-2015, 06:30 PM
When you go every weekend, yes.

Northridge said I didn't need them by the way. They said the same things all of you guys are saying. I have not had anything come loose now. Before it seemed like every trip. Maybe it doesn't work for you guys, but it did for me.

Then a paint pen would have served you well. Torque it, mark it, check it visually..... Time and money saved.

wayoflife
10-29-2015, 06:31 PM
Then a paint pen would have served you well. Torque it, mark it, check it visually..... Time and money saved.

:gaah: Way too much common sense there my friend. You might make his head explode. :crazyeyes:

RockyJk
10-29-2015, 06:44 PM
:gaah: Way too much common sense there my friend. You might make his head explode. :crazyeyes:

Mind=blown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG0NAUdiMpQ&feature=youtu.be

YellowJK
10-29-2015, 07:37 PM
Geez, you guys are brutal sometimes. All I said is it worked for me and for under $100 it's not a big deal. I do mark the bolts. It wasn't them coming loose really, it was more of them lost on the trail that made me look for a solution.

I know you wheel harder than most people and go a lot. It wasn't meant that you don't know anything. Sure, you can have the bolts even though I'm sure it was sarcastic.

piginajeep
10-29-2015, 07:46 PM
Geez, you guys are brutal sometimes. All I said is it worked for me and for under $100 it's not a big deal. I do mark the bolts. It wasn't them coming loose really, it was more of them lost on the trail that made me look for a solution.

I know you wheel harder than most people and go a lot. It wasn't meant that you don't know anything. Sure, you can have the bolts even though I'm sure it was sarcastic.

He's serious. If not, I'm second in line for the bolts!!

MR.Ty
10-29-2015, 07:48 PM
Geez, you guys are brutal sometimes. All I said is it worked for me and for under $100 it's not a big deal. I do mark the bolts. It wasn't them coming loose really, it was more of them lost on the trail that made me look for a solution.

I know you wheel harder than most people and go a lot. It wasn't meant that you don't know anything. Sure, you can have the bolts even though I'm sure it was sarcastic.

That leads me to question how they were "falling out" if they were properly torqued. What specification guide were you using? What kind of torque wrench do you have? Where you using any kind of extension?

jedg
10-29-2015, 08:16 PM
That leads me to question how they were "falling out" if they were properly torqued. What specification guide were you using? What kind of torque wrench do you have? Where you using any kind of extension?

I'll take a guess on this one.

1. If he was checking the torque manually, that means that he likely incrementally over-torqued the bolts over time.

2. If he left his torque wrench set while stored (say on 70 ft lbs) then it's no longer calibrated and he's got the wrong amount of torque on them.

And in the end, the bolts were torqued to the wrong ft lbs and either stretched or loose.

YellowJK
10-29-2015, 08:17 PM
That leads me to question how they were "falling out" if they were properly torqued. What specification guide were you using? What kind of torque wrench do you have? Where you using any kind of extension?

The only ones to actually fall out were the right LCA and the sway bar link twice. LCA was on the trail and link was the following weekend somewhere because it wasn't on when home. The ones that were loose were the trac bars and a few arms. Having even used Red some how.

As far as Torque wrench, it's a snap on. On a few I actually was using an extension which if I remember was the trac bar so that probably explains that. The specs were to the lift that I have. All in all, these make me feel better regardless if they were a useless buy. Not having to worry for the last few months is worth the $100 spent.

wayoflife
10-29-2015, 08:44 PM
Sure, you can have the bolts even though I'm sure it was sarcastic.

Nope, not being sarcastic at all. If you wouldn't mind letting me know what shipping is to 89701, I'd be grateful. I can pay by PayPal :yup:

OverlanderJK
10-29-2015, 09:02 PM
He's serious. If not, I'm second in line for the bolts!!

Thirded!..

MTG
10-30-2015, 12:05 AM
Thirded!..

Fourtheth.

Imchasinyou
12-02-2015, 12:19 PM
I did go and buy them. I didnt buy the sets sold by others for 80+. I went to a local fastener store here in Columbus. Columbus Fasteners. I gave them the sizes I found listed on the page of one of the vendors and they had them all.

Here is why i chose to do this even though if properly torqued, they should not move by the simple clamping force. When installing my lift, one of the bushing sleeves was pretty worn. That told me the bolt had either not been torqued from the factory, the previous owner in Alaska had taken it out for some reason or a tech had not properly torqued it when he/she did service in this area. These bolts fit perfectly and have absolutely no slop in any direction. I still have my stock bolts in my trail kit. I think I paid about $26 for every bolt. UCA, LCA and both ends of both track bars. The new bolts are as strong, fit better and, well, cant hurt anything. I have them installed, torqued and locked with blue.

I have a RC 4" lift on the JK and that kit called for removing the steel tabs on the LCA mounts to install the cam bolts. Stupidly, I did just that and could never get a good setting on the castor. Once set, they would still move out of the 4* setting i had them at. This made me leery of driving the Jeep at any speeds above 40 as even just a pot hole could knock this castor setting out on me even properly torqued to 125 ft lbs with a Snap-On torque wrench that gets stored at 0 when not in use. Synergy Engineering's eliminator kit and the new bolts have this issue fixed for me. Ive never had to look back at them.

wayoflife
12-02-2015, 02:59 PM
These bolts fit perfectly and have absolutely no slop in any direction.

Guess you didn't read the thread before chiming in as if you had, you would know that if your bolts are properly torqued, there would be NO "slop". If slop or keeping your untightened bolts from moving around their holes was the only thing that mattered, there would be no need for "torque" specs.


The new bolts are as strong...

This is not true. A metric 10.9 bolt is technically ever so slightly stronger than a grade 8 but really, that's a moot point.


I still have my stock bolts in my trail kit.

Can't imagine why. I mean, the bolts you bought are so much stronger and fit so much better, you should never have a need for weak and sloppy fitting factory bolts.

Superfly3176
12-10-2015, 02:48 PM
Just to chime in that so many people believe this. Really if jeep could have fixed this "massive" issue for a few dollars they would have.

Let's be realistic, it's easier and cheaper to fix an issue than to deal with lawsuits.

Therefore I have to figure that this isn't an issue at all.

Mike_JK_Houston_711
05-22-2016, 05:17 AM
This is the first time I'm hearing this. I put in the grade 8 bolt kit from Northridge about a year ago...no issues yet, bushings are not worn all around. But I'm glad I found this thread because I will pay close attention to these things now. Question would be, if I keep these grade 8 bolts properly torqued on a regular basis, is there any reason to think this will cause my jeep harm? Or do I need to go out and find the factory bolts and revert sooner than later? I don't even know what I did with them honestly...

2nd.gunman
05-22-2016, 08:43 AM
This is the first time I'm hearing this. I put in the grade 8 bolt kit from Northridge about a year ago...no issues yet, bushings are not worn all around. But I'm glad I found this thread because I will pay close attention to these things now. Question would be, if I keep these grade 8 bolts properly torqued on a regular basis, is there any reason to think this will cause my jeep harm? Or do I need to go out and find the factory bolts and revert sooner than later? I don't even know what I did with them honestly...

You won't have any issues with the grade 8 bolts if properly torqued. It's just that they are a totally unnecessary "upgrade".

still in school
08-17-2016, 12:55 AM
Newbie here.. Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm thankful for encountering this thread before hitting the "pay" button on the bolts.

I had the death wobble going into work yesterday and I about to order these bolts. Instead, saw this thread and went home and sure enough, my track bolts were loose. +1 for wayalife!:rock:

dillard09
08-17-2016, 12:57 AM
Newbie here.. Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm thankful for encountering this thread before hitting the "pay" button on the bolts.

I had the death wobble going into work yesterday and I about to order these bolts. Instead, saw this thread and went home and sure enough, my track bolts were loose. +1 for wayalife!:rock:

Rite on! I bet that stoked ya, fixed problem and saved money.

Ddays
08-17-2016, 01:14 AM
Ironically I came across an offroad shop's website today while I was entertaining myself while stuck at a trade show all day. This is actually directly from their website;

"It does not take much for your 07-11' Jeep Wrangler JK to develop steering and ride quality issues. Simple bolt on suspension upgrades like a budget boost or leveling kit have been known to cause bump steer and death wobble. This is caused by a number of reasons, and simply adding a heavy duty steering stabilizer/dampener isn't the right solution.

The right way to fix this often difficult to troubleshoot problem can be as simple as a Grade-8 Hardware upgrade."

I won't say the shop name because that would be 'Rebel lious' of me, but to me, this is irresponsible. Yeah I know it says "can be as simple as" but the average guy that just shit his pants having experienced death wobble for the first time would come across this & think what a great deal this was. :naw:

swampdog
08-17-2016, 01:44 AM
Ironically I came across an offroad shop's website today while I was entertaining myself while stuck at a trade show all day. This is actually directly from their website;

"It does not take much for your 07-11' Jeep Wrangler JK to develop steering and ride quality issues. Simple bolt on suspension upgrades like a budget boost or leveling kit have been known to cause bump steer and death wobble. This is caused by a number of reasons, and simply adding a heavy duty steering stabilizer/dampener isn't the right solution.

The right way to fix this often difficult to troubleshoot problem can be as simple as a Grade-8 Hardware upgrade."

I won't say the shop name because that would be 'Rebel lious' of me, but to me, this is irresponsible. Yeah I know it says "can be as simple as" but the average guy that just shit his pants having experienced death wobble for the first time would come across this & think what a great deal this was. :naw:

Yeah, it's pretty shitty marketing angle for sure. It says a lot about the company.

JKbrick
08-17-2016, 03:01 AM
Yeah, it's pretty shitty marketing angle for sure. It says a lot about the company.

Don't remember the company but a friend was having bump steer and he sent me a link for a "death wobble kit" and ask me if he should buy it. We did a drag link flip and checked all his bolts and after an alignment it's perfectly fine

jeepsterchris
08-24-2016, 07:37 PM
Just because it's said on the internet doesn't make it true

Haha! I just read that on the internet! My brain is now broken.

Just kidding...Great info Eddie...

Tomb1957
08-25-2016, 03:16 AM
Funny, this non-issue and thread is what led me to becoming a member here. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience at your finger tips. Also, the way the Trolls get handled is priceless.

xman4602
12-19-2016, 02:12 PM
Ok after reading all this, I admit to buying into the grade 8 craze. That being said my build is still pending completion. I have these bolts in place but have not tightened them yet. Would you guys recommend actually removing them in favor of the stock bolts or since they are there now would you tighten them and rock n roll?


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GraniteCrystal
12-19-2016, 02:18 PM
Ok after reading all this, I admit to buying into the grade 8 craze. That being said my build is still pending completion. I have these bolts in place but have not tightened them yet. Would you guys recommend actually removing them in favor of the stock bolts or since they are there now would you tighten them and rock n roll?


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If they didn't cost that much, I'd just tighten them and go. Not hurting anything, just not needed.

같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같
Build thread: http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=32769

WJCO
12-19-2016, 02:30 PM
Ok after reading all this, I admit to buying into the grade 8 craze. That being said my build is still pending completion. I have these bolts in place but have not tightened them yet. Would you guys recommend actually removing them in favor of the stock bolts or since they are there now would you tighten them and rock n roll?


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If they didn't cost that much, I'd just tighten them and go. Not hurting anything, just not needed.

같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같같
Build thread: http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=32769

Agreed. Tighten them up.

xman4602
12-19-2016, 02:45 PM
Sweet! I'm off tomorrow, hopefully the rest of my tires will arrive today so I can get it finished up!


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JKbrick
12-19-2016, 06:04 PM
Ok after reading all this, I admit to buying into the grade 8 craze. That being said my build is still pending completion. I have these bolts in place but have not tightened them yet. Would you guys recommend actually removing them in favor of the stock bolts or since they are there now would you tighten them and rock n roll?


Sent from my iPhone using WAYALIFE mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=73415)

I also did this before I found the WAYALIFE but like stated, they don't hurt anything, it was just $45 bucks I wasted. Damn you Northridge


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xman4602
12-19-2016, 11:28 PM
I also did this before I found the WAYALIFE but like stated, they don't hurt anything, it was just $45 bucks I wasted. Damn you Northridge


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Meh. Can't blame Northridge really. They marketed it well to those of us that don't know better. I fell for it twice. Put them on my two door as well.


"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room!"

Dusty
12-28-2016, 02:48 PM
This thread just saved me from buying into the bolt size hype and I can use it now towards another purchase.

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wayoflife
12-28-2016, 03:26 PM
This thread just saved me from buying into the bolt size hype and I can use it now towards another purchase.

Glad to hear we were able to help :yup:

DiggerJKU
12-28-2016, 03:30 PM
I made the mistake of getting the bolt kit too and then immediately got RK arms all around with my lift. I figured at least I have back up bolts now for everything


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Calico Jack
12-28-2016, 04:24 PM
This forum has literally saved me money, the wisdom and jeep knowledge i find here on a daily basis is awesome! I know this is a older post but it was relevant to me as I was recently told by another jeeper that I should upgrade my bolts.

catahoula
12-28-2016, 04:27 PM
I have 114,000 on my rig and have never had a problem with factory bolts.

f14framer
04-01-2017, 12:42 PM
Wish I had found this post 2 weeks ago, lol. $40 down the drain.☹️


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Alexander
05-04-2017, 09:15 AM
...
Still not convinced? Let's take a closer look at how things work. When you look at the bushing of your track bar or control arms, the metal piece in the middle where your bolt will go through is called a "crush sleeve". AS IN, it's designed to get pushed really really hard from either end. The purpose of your bolts and nuts is to provide "compression" and cause your mounts to act like a vice by clamping down really really hard on the crush sleeve. The crush sleeves is NOT supposed to rotate AT ALL when installed correctly but rather, the bonded rubber bushing will twist around it. Of course, if you have a polyurethane bushing, heim or other aftermarket joint, the bushing will rotate around the sleeve or misalignment spacers - again, there is NO movement around the bolt and therefore, shouldered bolts are NOT necessary. This is the reason why bolts are rated for "torque" and NOT "sheer" - the value of compression strength is all that is necessary to hold things together. Don't believe me? Place a pencil between your index finger and thumb and hold it in the air. Why doesn't the pencil fall? I mean, there's no bolt going though your finger and thumb to hold it in place. Pinch it harder and it will even take effort to move the pencil around. Imagine that - compression alone made that possible. :crazyeyes:

If you really want to spend money on your Jeep, invest in a good torque wrench and use it as a part of regular maintenance. :yup:

I'm new here. But here's what I'll say: the brace where trackbar attached to the front axle has a hole for an inch bolt. And the fact that the metric bolt is used there leads to the fact that the hole will break and turn into an oval. That all leads to a shimmy.
256906
My opinion is: You can tighten and tighten the bolt from time to time. Or you can just change it to the correct one.
P.S. Sorry for my English.

cozdude
05-04-2017, 10:32 AM
I'm new here. But here's what I'll say: the brace where trackbar attached to the front axle has a hole for an inch bolt. And the fact that the metric bolt is used there leads to the fact that the hole will break and turn into an oval. That all leads to a shimmy.
256906
My opinion is: You can tighten and tighten the bolt from time to time. Or you can just change it to the correct one.
P.S. Sorry for my English.

Can I have your factory bolts then please?

The factory bolts are perfect. If you keep it torqued like your supposed to then the hole will never oval. It only ovals from not being at the right spec. And if it does, weld a washer on the hole and bring it back to size.

Alexander
05-04-2017, 10:47 AM
Can I have your factory bolts then please?
No bolts. Only one bolt yet. From trackbar.

The factory bolts are perfect. If you keep it torqued like your supposed to then the hole will never oval. It only ovals from not being at the right spec. And if it does, weld a washer on the hole and bring it back to size.
I just put the proper inch bolt after that and have no issues now. With hard torque you just mask the engineering miscalculation. It is better when you have well tightened PROPER bolt. IMHO.

cozdude
05-04-2017, 11:26 AM
No bolts. Only one bolt yet. From trackbar.

I just put the proper inch bolt after that and have no issues now. With hard torque you just mask the engineering miscalculation. It is better when you have well tightened PROPER bolt. IMHO.

Fine can I have your trackbar bolt then.

If a grade 8 bolt is the "proper" bolt than why didn't mopar have the Jeep come with it from factory then? Also why didnt the Jeep come with an inch bolt either than? factory spec is 125ft/lbs. that's plenty tight

catahoula
05-04-2017, 11:41 AM
I have factory bolts on my 2011 with over 122,000 on it AND have had 0 problems.

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WJCO
05-04-2017, 11:44 AM
Damn those engineers! What were they thinking? Our JK must also be an exception to the poor engineering, it's nearing 170k with a perfectly round hole. I may write them a letter....

Alexander
05-04-2017, 12:16 PM
Fine can I have your trackbar bolt then.

If a grade 8 bolt is the "proper" bolt than why didn't mopar have the Jeep come with it from factory then? Also why didnt the Jeep come with an inch bolt either than? factory spec is 125ft/lbs. that's plenty tight

I made some photos for you.
Factory bolt:
256915256916
The inch hard mark of steel bolt that turner made for me. It's hard to find an inch bolt here.
256917256918256919
Dark photos because it is midnight on Sakhalin now.

OverlanderJK
05-04-2017, 12:47 PM
No bolts. Only one bolt yet. From trackbar.

I just put the proper inch bolt after that and have no issues now. With hard torque you just mask the engineering miscalculation. It is better when you have well tightened PROPER bolt. IMHO.

Yeah Chrysler engineers really fucked up. They have only produced a million and a half JK's over the years but somehow, some business, (in the business of sales and making money) said that the bolt size is wrong, and idiots like yourself buy into it.




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Andy5160
05-04-2017, 12:57 PM
Fine can I have your trackbar bolt then.

If a grade 8 bolt is the "proper" bolt than why didn't mopar have the Jeep come with it from factory then? Also why didnt the Jeep come with an inch bolt either than? factory spec is 125ft/lbs. that's plenty tight

Steve,

Don't get the bolt from Russia
Shipping cost will be similar to your new STT's :) :)

Alexander
05-04-2017, 01:12 PM
Yeah Chrysler engineers really fucked up. They have only produced a million and a half JK's over the years but somehow, some business, (in the business of sales and making money) said that the bolt size is wrong, and idiots like yourself buy into it.

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Anybody can make a mistake. Even a Chrysler engineers (or other guys in Chrysler):))) For example: casting sand in cooling system of my JK. What is it? A mistake of course.
Most of you have no problems with bolts. Good for you. But I have. There may be a reason in bad Russian roads. Maybe someone has not screwed the bolt well enough. In any case, I do not force you to agree with me. This is just my point of view.

Alexander
05-04-2017, 01:21 PM
Steve,

Don't get the bolt from Russia
Shipping cost will be similar to your new STT's :) :)

Where Steve bought such cheap STT's?:)

Alexander
05-04-2017, 01:41 PM
If a grade 8 bolt is the "proper" bolt than why didn't mopar have the Jeep come with it from factory then? Also why didnt the Jeep come with an inch bolt either than? factory spec is 125ft/lbs. that's plenty tight
Steave, about your questions: I don't know. Really, why don't they use inch bolts? It costs nothing to them, it should be even better. May be you know?

wayoflife
05-04-2017, 01:45 PM
I'm new here. But here's what I'll say: the brace where trackbar attached to the front axle has a hole for an inch bolt. And the fact that the metric bolt is used there leads to the fact that the hole will break and turn into an oval. That all leads to a shimmy.

My opinion is: You can tighten and tighten the bolt from time to time. Or you can just change it to the correct one.

In America, tightening bolts from time to time is called "maintenance". But, pay no attention to a silly thing like that. Being that the right size bolt is all that's needed, just install your bolt with a stover or pinch nut but make sure to NOT tighten it to torque spec. :yup:

wayoflife
05-04-2017, 01:49 PM
Anybody can make a mistake. Even a Chrysler engineers (or other guys in Chrysler):))) For example: casting sand in cooling system of my JK. What is it? A mistake of course.
Most of you have no problems with bolts. Good for you. But I have. There may be a reason in bad Russian roads. Maybe someone has not screwed the bolt well enough. In any case, I do not force you to agree with me. This is just my point of view.

A "mistake" is something that occurs on a few vehicles and recalls or TSB's are issued to have them "fixed". You know, kind of like what happened with the casting sand problem or the head problem on the early Pentastars. Maybe language is a barrier for you but what OverlanderJK was saying is that there literally are over 1.5 million JK's that have been made and ALL with the same track bar bolt. If it really were a "mistake", it's nothing short of amazing that there aren't at least a million people out there with a loose bolt problem. But hey, what would I know.

Alexander
05-04-2017, 02:04 PM
In America, tightening bolts from time to time is called "maintenance". But, pay no attention to a silly thing like that. Being that the right size bolt is all that's needed, just install your bolt with a stover or pinch nut but make sure to NOT tighten it to torque spec. :yup:

It's sarcasm. Witty. I understand.:yup:

notnalc68
05-04-2017, 02:05 PM
A "mistake" is something that occurs on a few vehicles and recalls or TSB's are issued to have them "fixed". You know, kind of like what happened with the casting sand problem or the head problem on the early Pentastars. Maybe language is a barrier for you but what OverlanderJK was saying is that there literally are over 1.5 million JK's that have been made and ALL with the same track bar bolt. If it really were a "mistake", it's nothing short of amazing that there aren't at least a million people out there with a loose bolt problem. But hey, what would I know.

I agree. Why was there no recall, for such a widely known problem? I suspect most of the people, that have had a problem, installed a lift, and the bolt was never torqued properly, after the installation.


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Alexander
05-04-2017, 02:15 PM
A "mistake" is something that occurs on a few vehicles and recalls or TSB's are issued to have them "fixed". You know, kind of like what happened with the casting sand problem or the head problem on the early Pentastars. Maybe language is a barrier for you but what OverlanderJK was saying is that there literally are over 1.5 million JK's that have been made and ALL with the same track bar bolt. If it really were a "mistake", it's nothing short of amazing that there aren't at least a million people out there with a loose bolt problem. But hey, what would I know.

I understand your point of view. It turns out that if someone puts such inch bolts - this is just for their own peace of mind. In any case, any bolt needs to be tightened well, yes? :)

Alexander
05-04-2017, 02:20 PM
I agree. Why was there no recall, for such a widely known problem? I suspect most of the people, that have had a problem, installed a lift, and the bolt was never torqued properly, after the installation.


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Most likely you're right. It happened when I put a lift and 37th. :D

wayoflife
05-04-2017, 02:26 PM
I understand your point of view. It turns out that if someone puts such inch bolts - this is just for their own peace of mind. In any case, any bolt needs to be tightened well, yes? :)

"Tightened well" is NOT the same thing as tightened to the "proper torque spec". Peace of mind comes from maintaining your Jeep, not from buying things you don't need.

WJCO
05-04-2017, 02:33 PM
I understand your point of view. It turns out that if someone puts such inch bolts - this is just for their own peace of mind. In any case, any bolt needs to be tightened well, yes? :)

It's not a point of view, it's accurate information. While I appreciate your passion to save the internet, it's bullshit that the factory uses a one inch hole. No one needs to retain any of this stuff that you're selling.

Here's is a picture of the factory bolt being measured and compared to a one inch hole. If the factory bracket used a one inch hole, the bolt would be flopping around like a 90 year old scrotum. It's not accurate. The factory bolt is a 14mm.

256936

256937

Alexander
05-04-2017, 02:36 PM
"Tightened well" is NOT the same thing as tightened to the "proper torque spec". Peace of mind comes from maintaining your Jeep, not from buying things you don't need.

You right.
I do not have a torque wrench. So tighten bolts and nuts as I feel :idontknow:

cozdude
05-04-2017, 02:42 PM
Steave, about your questions: I don't know. Really, why don't they use inch bolts? It costs nothing to them, it should be even better. May be you know?

You seem to be the expert on this matter which is why I asked you. Clearly I know nothing and so does the mopar engineers

Alexander
05-04-2017, 02:45 PM
It's not a point of view, it's accurate information. While I appreciate your passion to save the internet, it's bullshit that the factory uses a one inch hole. No one needs to retain any of this stuff that you're selling.

Here's is a picture of the factory bolt being measured and compared to a one inch hole. If the factory bracket used a one inch hole, the bolt would be flopping around like a 90 year old scrotum. It's not accurate. The factory bolt is a 14mm.


No "one inch hole" :doh: I mean "inch bolt" is " no metric bolt". Inch bolt is 9/16''' = 14.3mm.
Sorry, difficulties of translation :rolleyes2:

WJCO
05-04-2017, 02:50 PM
No "one inch hole" :doh: I mean "inch bolt" is " no metric bolt". Inch bolt is 9/16''' = 14.3mm.
Sorry, difficulties of translation :rolleyes2:

That makes a lot more sense. I'm still using what the factory intended to be there though.

wayoflife
05-04-2017, 02:51 PM
I do not have a torque wrench. So tighten bolts and nuts as I feel :idontknow:

And there in lies your problem.

Alexander
05-04-2017, 02:52 PM
You seem to be the expert on this matter which is why I asked you.
No, I'm not an expert. I just have my little experience.

Clearly I know nothing and so does the mopar engineers
Do you really think so? Probably not.

Alexander
05-04-2017, 03:04 PM
And there in lies your problem.

I always repair the jeep by myself.
Time to put a torque wrench in my shopping list.
Thank you.

notnalc68
05-04-2017, 03:14 PM
I always repair the jeep by myself.
Time to put a torque wrench in my shopping list.
Thank you.

Good idea. Too much torque can be as bad as too little torque.


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JeepJeep75
05-04-2017, 06:33 PM
Good idea. Too much torque can be as bad as too little torque.


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Don't know why, but the ad below your comment made me laugh!!256985


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catahoula
05-04-2017, 08:10 PM
You right.
I do not have a torque wrench. So tighten bolts and nuts as I feel :idontknow:

Seriously?

JKbrick
05-04-2017, 08:56 PM
It's not a point of view, it's accurate information. While I appreciate your passion to save the internet, it's bullshit that the factory uses a one inch hole. No one needs to retain any of this stuff that you're selling.

Here's is a picture of the factory bolt being measured and compared to a one inch hole. If the factory bracket used a one inch hole, the bolt would be flopping around like a 90 year old scrotum. It's not accurate. The factory bolt is a 14mm.

256936

256937

Thank you for not posting a 90 year old scrotum in your illustrations


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Alexander
05-04-2017, 09:03 PM
Seriously?
Absolutely. I usually do operations with suspension. It is hard to overtorque M14 bolts :))
I'm not saying that I'm a cool mechanic. Live and learn. :)

Alexander
05-04-2017, 09:10 PM
Thank you for not posting a 90 year old scrotum in your illustrations


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I also don't want to know how the 90 year old scrotum flopping. :yup:

2nd.gunman
05-04-2017, 09:45 PM
No bolts. Only one bolt yet. From trackbar.

I just put the proper inch bolt after that and have no issues now. With hard torque you just mask the engineering miscalculation. It is better when you have well tightened PROPER bolt. IMHO.

Do a little research into how bolts work and you'll understand how stupid this sounds


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WJCO
05-04-2017, 10:03 PM
Thank you for not posting a 90 year old scrotum in your illustrations


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I also don't want to know how the 90 year old scrotum flopping. :yup:

It was tempting. I'll save that pic for another time. Wait for it.

Brute
05-04-2017, 10:12 PM
No bolts. Only one bolt yet. From trackbar.

I just put the proper inch bolt after that and have no issues now. With hard torque you just mask the engineering miscalculation. It is better when you have well tightened PROPER bolt. IMHO.

"Engineering miscalculation"?...


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Brute
05-04-2017, 10:26 PM
In the industry I was in for 30 years, torque specifications are relied on religiously...many fasteners have torque ranges within only 5 in/lbs...and people have lost their lives when torque specs were overlooked or just ignored.

While there may be instances in which a "engineering miscalculation " may have occurred (extremely rare in the automotive industry), the mistake would have surfaced much sooner in a fastener that has been used in an application of over a decade duration.


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JKbrick
05-04-2017, 10:46 PM
It was tempting. I'll save that pic for another time. Wait for it.

Is it the guy that had a 30" penis and a ford raptor?


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Judesign
05-04-2017, 10:46 PM
It was tempting. I'll save that pic for another time. Wait for it.

I knew he had one.


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WJCO
05-05-2017, 12:04 AM
Is it the guy that had a 30" penis and a ford raptor?


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This guy? Unlikely....


I knew he had one.


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:dont_tell:

Alexander
05-05-2017, 01:25 AM
Do a little research into how bolts work and you'll understand how stupid this sounds


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Do not exaggerate. It's not so stupid for a non-professional in this point. :)
I did a little research. I have read some information about bolted connections.
Most likely we are talking about tolerances for bolt fasteners.
Tolerances for bolted connections depend on the application.
When designing a Jeep suspension, Chrysler engineers chose the accuracy of the bolted joint that they chose.
Probably 0.3 mm is enough accuracy. Enough for this type of connection.
Now I know more. Thank you.

Alexander
05-05-2017, 01:29 AM
"Engineering miscalculation"?...


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You're right. It sounds too much.

BaddestCross
05-05-2017, 01:42 AM
Hey, a guy that actually takes some sarcastic criticism, rolls with the punches, does some additional research, and then admits he was wrong. Almost like finding a unicorn. 👍 😂

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Alexander
05-05-2017, 01:56 AM
Hey, a guy that actually takes some sarcastic criticism, rolls with the punches, does some additional research, and then admits he was wrong. Almost like finding a unicorn. 👍 😂

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Thanks.
:) "Unicorn". The first time I hear this word in English.
Like "Corn","PopCorn", but "UniCorn". Sounds funny.

BaddestCross
05-05-2017, 02:07 AM
Thanks.
:) "Unicorn". The first time I hear this word in English.
Like "Corn","PopCorn", but "UniCorn". Sounds funny.
Lol. You'll do just fine here. 🍻

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OverlanderJK
05-05-2017, 02:09 AM
And there in lies your problem.

No shit, right.

My wheel fell off cause I didn't tighten the lug nuts. Guess I should install bigger wheel studs now.


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BaddestCross
05-05-2017, 02:29 AM
No shit, right.

My wheel fell off cause I didn't tighten the lug nuts. Guess I should install bigger wheel studs now.


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Just make sure they're grade 8.

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frenchjk
05-05-2017, 10:30 AM
In fact the grade 8 "kit" was created to let people have fun playing a round with different size spanners, ratchets sockets and bolts......not to mention the torquewrench(s)...because everyone knows you don't torque metric and imperial (coarse or fine) the same way.;);)

I'm there and still have to find where i had stashed my metric bolts to revert......and have one (1) set of tools.....:naw:

JKUFavor
08-29-2019, 04:22 AM
I love this thread. This is the kind of conversation I need more of. 🤩


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