JK Steering-Tie rod & Drag link questions

Big-T · Nov 30, 2012

Hey guys I didn't see a thread about this already if I missed it didn't mean to start a new one, looking for some advice. 2010 Rubicon Unlimited with 37x13.50-17 Toyo MT's, a 4" long arm, just added a set of JKS ACOS ( adjustable coil spring spacer) because I wanted the ability to level out / balance my ride height. So on to the point, looking to up grade my steering components a bit. Been having a little wondering on the road, more than I would like. Wouldn't go as far as calling it bump steer but I think there is defiantly room for some improvement. The PSC Cylinder Assist Kit would be the ideal set up for sure, but at this time a little out reach. So was to going try a few mods that might work well with the PSC (less the steering stab)when I am able to add it later. 1- Rock solids Steering Sector Shaft Brace, 2- new Synergy HD ball joints 3-Synergy tie rod and drag link( planning to do the high mount/ flip on both) and 4-New steering stabilizer w/ Synergy high mount kit. Any thoughts or input from those of you that done these type of mods with the tie rod and drag link would be a great help, and is anyone running a Steering Sector Shaft Brace? If so how has it worked for you? :thinking:

Thanks guys,
Troy

rinkishjk · Nov 30, 2012

That sector shaft brace doesn't work with some track bars.. I have the psc kit with 35's,and the steering is much better with it. I can basically turn with one finger when in the rocks, or when with the stock setup the wheel wouldn't turn. It's a great investment.
As far as the synergy bars I have a friend that has a drag link that's fairly new and the joint at the knuckle has play. I have the Currie setup, and it's dam pricey but solid!
Also the end joints are all the same, and they thread into the bar.
A drag link flip also requires raising the track bar at the axle so plan on that. The drag link flip will greatly inhance the steering feel and control. At least it does for me.
Jks sells a frame side tb bracket, and a sector brace also. I have the bracket, but not the sector brace setup.

wayoflife · Nov 30, 2012

for as much money as you would be spending to do all that, why not just save up a bit more and just get the PSC. honestly, none of the things you have listed will do much if anything to help out your current situation. a sector shaft brace will not be needed if you have a PSC. a new steering stabilier or relocation bracket isn't needed with a PSC. new ball joints are not needed if the ones you have aren't bad. a new tie rod would be nice to have if the one you have is already bent but, i too would put my money in a currie instead as it is a MUCH better tie rod. a drag link flip and track bar relocation bracket would help improve handling but not wandering like you have - that would be a result of not enough positive caster. and, at that, i personally would go with an EVO or AEV setup.

nmwranglerx · Nov 30, 2012

If you are having wandering issues have your caster checked out. A small adjustment with your front adjustable control arms to give you more positive caster could do wonders. I know it did for me when I got mine. I see you're in New Mexico. Are you in Abq? If so, I'd be glad to meet up and show you the EVO drag link flip. I'd also like to check out 37s with 5.13 gearing. I'm thinking of going this route but also 5.38 and moving to D60 rear, D44/60 front.

CRAZYCASEY · Dec 1, 2012

If you have been out wheeling hard with your 37s the first thing I would check is your Stearing box. I had mine rebuilt twice while running 37s with no ram assist. I'm with WOL the first thing I would do is upgrade to a PSC, otherwise you'll just keep throwing $$$s at it.

Big-T · Dec 1, 2012

wayoflife said:
for as much money as you would be spending to do all that, why not just save up a bit more and just get the PSC. honestly, none of the things you have listed will do much if anything to help out your current situation. a sector shaft brace will not be needed if you have a PSC. a new steering stabilier or relocation bracket isn't needed with a PSC. new ball joints are not needed if the ones you have aren't bad. a new tie rod would be nice to have if the one you have is already bent but, i too would put my money in a currie instead as it is a MUCH better tie rod. a drag link flip and track bar relocation bracket would help improve handling but not wandering like you have - that would be a result of not enough positive caster. and, at that, i personally would go with an EVO or AEV setup.

Sounds like good advice on the PSC, Being much less informed on all the products I was just trying to get get myself headed in the right direction. Did you send in your box to PSC or buy a new one? they told me about a 7 to 10 day turn around if i send it in as well as a appx $700 savings. my right side BJ's are loose so they need to be replaced no matter what so just planned to put H-d BJ's on both sides at the same time. I still would like to flip my tie rod & drag link. Let me give you a bit more info, I have a FT 4" long arm kit and it has a track bar relocation bracket on the frame side as well as a new adjustable track bar. the drag link is stock and I used their drop pit man arm with the kit. If I go with the EVO drag link will I be able to keep my current set up or will it all need to be changed? I am hoping to go back to the stock pit man arm with the new DL but leave the relocation mount / bracket frame side as it is. As far as Positive caster to correct the wandering, how much will i need to add. I realize that you not being here and seeing the measurements as it sits, that's a tough question, I guess i am looking for something to tell the guys that alined it so they can add some more to it.

Big-T · Dec 1, 2012

nmwranglerx said:
If you are having wandering issues have your caster checked out. A small adjustment with your front adjustable control arms to give you more positive caster could do wonders. I know it did for me when I got mine. I see you're in New Mexico. Are you in Abq? If so, I'd be glad to meet up and show you the EVO drag link flip. I'd also like to check out 37s with 5.13 gearing. I'm thinking of going this route but also 5.38 and moving to D60 rear, D44/60 front.

thanks for the info (on the learning curve here for sure). Lots of things to learn since the leaf spring days for me. Would defiantly like to meet up and check out the EVO DL Filp for sure. I am south of Albuq in Los Lunas, but I work out of town quite a bit. maybe we can meet up after the Holidays.

Big-T · Dec 1, 2012

CRAZYCASEY said:
If you have been out wheeling hard with your 37s the first thing I would check is your Stearing box. I had mine rebuilt twice while running 37s with no ram assist. I'm with WOL the first thing I would do is upgrade to a PSC, otherwise you'll just keep throwing $$$s at it.

yeah thanks man, all of you got me thinking this is the right move for sure. As we all know we can throw lots $$ at it, and wasting $$ is not in the plan if it can be helped.

wayoflife · Dec 1, 2012

Big-T said:
Sounds like good advice on the PSC, Being much less informed on all the products I was just trying to get get myself headed in the right direction. Did you send in your box to PSC or buy a new one? they told me about a 7 to 10 day turn around if i send it in as well as a appx $700 savings.

I sent mine in and I'm pretty sure you can only do that if you have an old Delphi box. The savings was well worth it.

my right side BJ's are loose so they need to be replaced no matter what so just planned to put H-d BJ's on both sides at the same time.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this? Also, have you looked into the new Alloy USA HD joints? They are practically identical to the Synergy joints and I'm pretty sure you can get them for less. Just trying to save you some money.

I still would like to flip my tie rod & drag link. Let me give you a bit more info, I have a FT 4" long arm kit and it has a track bar relocation bracket on the frame side as well as a new adjustable track bar. the drag link is stock and I used their drop pit man arm with the kit. If I go with the EVO drag link will I be able to keep my current set up or will it all need to be changed? I am hoping to go back to the stock pit man arm with the new DL but leave the relocation mount / bracket frame side as it is.

The only way you can flip your tie rod is to install new knuckles and for how much they cost, I wouldn't waste your money. The amount of clearance you get is only about an inch. You'd be much better served forwarding that money toward a good HD tie rod like the kind that Currie makes. As far as drag links go, if you flip it, you'll need to remove your dropped pitman arm and, if I were you, I would removed the frame side drop bracket as well and replace it with an axle mount like what EVO makes. That'll keep your track bar and drag link closer together like stock. BTW, I've run both setups and prefer the later.

As far as Positive caster to correct the wandering, how much will i need to add. I realize that you not being here and seeing the measurements as it sits, that's a tough question, I guess i am looking for something to tell the guys that alined it so they can add some more to it.

You'll want it as close to stock as possible, +4° or a tad more if you can do it without causing any driveline vibrations. Anything less and you will have wandering issues.

Big-T · Dec 1, 2012

wayoflife said:
I sent mine in and I'm pretty sure you can only do that if you have an old Delphi box. The savings was well worth it.

not sure but i will find out monday.

wayoflife said:
Just out of curiosity, how do you know this? Also, have you looked into the new Alloy USA HD joints? They are practically identical to the Synergy joints and I'm pretty sure you can get them for less. Just trying to save you some money.

no prob, I jacked up the front end, got the weight off the frt wheels, with just enough room to side a pry bar under, then used the pry bar under the wheel to lift up, there is a bit of slop on the right side but not on the left. this is how I was taught yrs ago to check them. As far as Alloy's BJ's, no have not look into them. any idea what a full set cost?

wayoflife said:
you'll need to remove your dropped pit man arm and, if I were you, I would removed the frame side drop bracket as well and replace it with an axle mount like what EVO makes. That'll keep your track bar and drag link closer together like stock. BTW, I've run both setups and prefer the later.

Ok well I will look into the EVO set up, prob gonna do the PSC first then the EVO DL. kinda bummed to have to change so much out but I am looking for the end result. I appreciate your input and your experience with both set ups, thanks again.

wayoflife said:
You'll want it as close to stock as possible, +4° or a tad more if you can do it without causing any driveline vibrations. Anything less and you will have wandering issues.

Gonna have the guys at the shop recheck this for me, maybe have them add a tad see what happens.

wayoflife · Dec 1, 2012

Big-T said:
No prob, I jacked up the front end, got the weight off the frt wheels, with just enough room to side a pry bar under, then used the pry bar under the wheel to lift up, there is a bit of slop on the right side but not on the left. this is how I was taught yrs ago to check them. As far as Alloy's BJ's, no have not look into them. any idea what a full set cost?

Well, aside from using a dial indicator to accurately measure your movement, that would be the way to do it.

Oh, the Alloy USA joints are only $162.

http://www.amazon.com/Alloy-USA-Wrangler-Heavy-Joint/dp/B009RP89V6

Ok well I will look into the EVO set up, prob gonna do the PSC first then the EVO DL. kinda bummed to have to change so much out but I am looking for the end result. I appreciate your input and your experience with both set ups, thanks again.

Well, you don't have to but, it would be to your benefit. You most likely can sell what you remove to help suppliment some of your cost to change things out.

Gonna have the guys at the shop recheck this for me, maybe have them add a tad see what happens.

If you have an angle finder or even iphone, you can place it on the top of your ball joint to get a reading. You can also hold it up to the front flat surface of your differential housing where a case spreaders would be inserted into. If you are on flat ground, this should read 0°.

Gibbo · Dec 1, 2012

Wow what an interesting thread for this fresh catch, it was like learning a new language. It even answered a question I had in another thread about my caster after I'd installed front LCA. I got bang on 4 degrees so that must be ok. It drives brilliant. My question to this thread is, I've got a yet to be installed synergy front track bar bracket. Can I use it with a Currie flip kit, or should I use their bracket as well, or even an EVO kit. The more I learn, the more I find these two manufactures are quality worth saving up for. While I have an OME 4.5" lift that went 5.5" on my JK 2 door I run Currie track bars and control arms, and planning 35's very soon will be sourcing EVO gussets for the "C's". What do you think.

wayoflife · Dec 1, 2012

Gibbo said:
My question to this thread is, I've got a yet to be installed synergy front track bar bracket. Can I use it with a Currie flip kit, or should I use their bracket as well, or even an EVO kit.

You would use one or the other, not both. Being that both require welding, I would go with the Currie as it also gets welded to the upper control arm mount. The benefit of going EVO is that it's not that much more and is a bolt on application. For those that cannot weld, that's a significant savings in time and money.

sc_rhino · May 13, 2014

wayoflife said:
a sector shaft brace will not be needed if you have a PSC.

Also thinking about adding the PSC ram assist since I'm moving up to 37s. My shop also recommended the Synergy track bar brace and sector shaft brace. Am I correct in thinking I don't need this since the PSC would be taking the stress off of my sector shaft.

sc_rhino · May 13, 2014

ImageUploadedByWAYALIFE1400018031.653189.jpg

Here's a picture of it.

JK Steering-Tie rod & Drag link questions

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