When to engage rear lockers (or front)

JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
Tried a search and didn't really find anything. So my question is for you guys wheeling a lot and within various conditions and terrain. Experienced wheelers please :thumb: as I obviously got some bad advice by some folks on the trail recently.

When, as in what conditions and terrain should you/should you not lock your rear diff? Front and rears? :crazyeyes::idontknow:

Not sure if this vehicle specific, but I'm running a stock 2012 rubicon unlimited. Thanks in advance.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
You'll get a lot of different answers on this. For the most part, so long as you can keep all four on the floor and on good solid ground, you don't really need to lock up. Where lockers come in handy is when the terrain requires you to articulate enough that one or more tires don't have much bite or where traction is marginal on one side or the other (patchy snow, ice, mud, etc). Conditions like this will get your diff behaving as if you were in a turn. If and when you do need to lock up, I personally recommend that you do both front and rear at the same time. Doing just the rear will put more stress on it than is needed and on a JK, that can cause it to fail prematurely. When you will want to run rear lockers only is if you are in a position where turning is required. With your front end locked up, this will be very difficult to do.
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
wayoflife said:
You'll get a lot of different answers on this. For the most part, so long as you can keep all four on the floor and on good solid ground, you don't really need to lock up. (patchy snow, ice, mud, etc).
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I figured more than one way, but that's why asked for the many experienced wheelers to chime in and teach this new dog a trick or two. :yup:

So if all four are on the floor but you're running mud, snow and ice...would you lock then or no because all four are in the same conditions?
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
JAGS said:
I figured more than one way, but that's why asked for the many experienced wheelers to chime in and teach this new dog a trick or two. :yup:

So if all four are on the floor but you're running mud, snow and ice...would you lock then or no because all four are in the same conditions?
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Assuming the terrain you're on is even and traction is the same on all 4 tires, you should be able to negotiate it open. Having said that, there are plenty of times where you'll encounter a snow drift or mud slick rocks where you can only get part of your Jeep working on solid ground. In these cases, lockers come in handy. Of course, you can always give it a conservative go first and then lock up as needed. But, if you get a bad feeling just looking at an obstacle, it can be beneficial to lock up ahead of time especially with factory JK lockers that don't always want to engage unless you're moving.
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
Well, as a noob and still under warranty, I will walk the walk of shame. I took advice from several others on the recent snow run and locked rear after several ahead were getting stuck in the snow pack.

Didn't think anything of it and ran through with zero issues. Problem came in that they wouldn't disengage.

Dealership said it was likely because the snow was not giving enough and seized my diff. The dealership replaced the diff (with what actually looks like beefier one) under warranty, but said not to lock in snow with all four on solid ground.

So I guess I live and learn under warranty? :doh: ok let the bashing begin.
 
MTG

MTG

Caught the Bug
JAGS said:
Well, as a noob and still under warranty, I will walk the walk of shame. I took advice from several others on the recent snow run and locked rear after several ahead were getting stuck in the snow pack.

Didn't think anything of it and ran through with zero issues. Problem came in that they wouldn't disengage.

Dealership said it was likely because the snow was not giving enough and seized my diff. The dealership replaced the diff (with what actually looks like beefier one) under warranty, but said not to lock in snow with all four on solid ground.

So I guess I live and learn under warranty? :doh: ok let the bashing begin.
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No one's going to (or should) bash you. Live and learn. At least it was under warranty! :thumbs:
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
MTG said:
At least it was under warranty! :thumbs:
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That's exactly what I was telling myself on the way home. That and fact I learned before mods and dealership said that was the reason.

Needless to say, I'll take my chances in just 4h or 4lo in the future should I do snow again. Next time they may not be as accommodating for a $1250 repair.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
JAGS said:
Well, as a noob and still under warranty, I will walk the walk of shame. I took advice from several others on the recent snow run and locked rear after several ahead were getting stuck in the snow pack.

Didn't think anything of it and ran through with zero issues. Problem came in that they wouldn't disengage.

Dealership said it was likely because the snow was not giving enough and seized my diff. The dealership replaced the diff (with what actually looks like beefier one) under warranty, but said not to lock in snow with all four on solid ground.

So I guess I live and learn under warranty? :doh: ok let the bashing begin.
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Seriously? They told you that "the snow was not giving enough" and "that's what seized your diff"? Sorry, but that's just a load of crap. The factory lockers are weak for sure and prone to having a sticky dog clutch but, there's no way your diff is gonna seize up without blowing something up. Still, is it safe to assume you were hammering through the snow with your lockers on? In the future, if you can't crawl it, you're better off leaving your diff open. Glad to hear you got your locker covered under warranty but, I gotta tell you that even if you were being careful, this would have most likely happend sooner or later. Trust me, I've gone through 3 of them before finally switching over to ARB's.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
JAGS said:
Needless to say, I'll take my chances in just 4h or 4lo in the future should I do snow again. Next time they may not be as accommodating for a $1250 repair.
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If you can, running a really low psi in your tires, locked front and rear and crawling it is the better way to go. If that doesn't work and speed is needed, try to keep your diffs open. What you use really just depends on what you're trying to do.
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
wayoflife said:
Seriously? They told you that "the snow was not giving enough" and "that's what seized your diff"? Sorry, but that's just a load of crap. The factory lockers are weak for sure and prone to having a sticky dog clutch but, there's no way your diff is gonna seize up without blowing something up. Still, is it safe to assume you were hammering through the snow with your lockers on? In the future, if you can't crawl it, you're better off leaving your diff open. Glad to hear you got your locker covered under warranty but, I gotta tell you that even if you were being careful, this would have most likely happend sooner or later. Trust me, I've gone through 3 of them before finally switching over to ARB's.
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Paraphrasing, but basically what he said. That you should not lock in sand or snow. As for hammering through, not sure where that line is. Top top speed at any point might have been 20. Average speed as someone calculated was about 8mph for the whole 25 miles of trail.

I've read there not the best and this wasn't the first issue I've had as they stuck once before. That time I was finally able to disengage.

Glad for warranty too. :yup:
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
wayoflife said:
If you can, running a really low psi in your tires, locked front and rear and crawling it is the better way to go. If that doesn't work and speed is needed, try to keep your diffs open. What you use really just depends on what you're trying to do.
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After a few got stuck, that's when we aired down and went 4lo locked rear. Next time ill do one and then the other, but only if snarling along.

Wheeling is fun, but I learn something or several things every time I go. Guess that is better than not learning anything.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
JAGS said:
Paraphrasing, but basically what he said. That you should not lock in sand or snow.
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There's no need to lock in sand but it seems silly to suggest that you shouldn't lock up in something like snow which is slippery and offers little traction/resistance. In some cases, it's exactly what you want and need. If anything, most of the locker sticking I've seen occured after doing a lot of rock crawling where there was a lot mis-matched traction and jarring - places like Moab.

As for hammering through, not sure where that line is. Top top speed at any point might have been 20. Average speed as someone calculated was about 8mph for the whole 25 miles of trail.
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Hammering as in high RPM and having your tires skip as you make your way through sections of snow. The skipping and bouncing will be real hard on your locker.
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
JAGS said:
After a few got stuck, that's when we aired down and went 4lo locked rear. Next time ill do one and then the other, but only if snarling along.

Wheeling is fun, but I learn something or several things every time I go. Guess that is better than not learning anything.
Click to expand...

That's what it's all about. You learn most by doing :yup:
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
wayoflife said:
There's no need to lock in sand but it seems silly to suggest that you shouldn't lock up in something like snow which is slippery and offers little traction/resistance. In some cases, it's exactly what you want and need. If anything, most of the locker sticking I've seen occured after doing a lot of rock crawling where there was a lot mis-matched traction and jarring - places like Moab.

Hammering as in high RPM and having your tires skip as you make your way through sections of snow. The skipping and bouncing will be real hard on your locker.

That's what it's all about. You learn most by doing
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Havnt done a lot in sand, but will file away that note.

Didn't hammer it in that sense. But maybe, looking back in hindsight, it wasn't the best "locked" situation.

Love the learning process nearly as much as the wheeling itself. Figure if you ain't pushing yourself, your not doing it right...kind of like life.
 
1BAMFR

1BAMFR

New member
I try to stay open all day when offroading....lock it up when I get into a jam or a ridiculous obstacle is approaching...
 
Donny

Donny

New member
This thread brings up an excellent point...Filter the trail advice you get...two weekends back my wife and I went wheeling with a local club and at the trail head everyone got out to air down ( I have no source to air up again so we just chilled). Prior to mounting up to start down the trail the "leader" yelled out LOCKEM if you GOTem! (we do not have lockers) My wife looks at me and says "should we be going with them if we need lockers?"....The trail rating was 2.0:naw: so I told her we will tough it out:yup:.

At the lunch stop we talked to some folks about their rigs and lifts and got MANY recommendations on what to buy for our "limited" Unlimited. When asked what I was gonna do to it first I explained my "EVO ittiss" and desire to go to a Enforcer Kit or possibly the Coilover kits and I got the standard "Just get a TF or AEV kit and save yourself some money for .....many other items...

I realize there is many ways to approach a build but I wish there was a more logical way to get answers than trial and error with a pack of folks who hate products because they don't run it...


Donny
 
Atch

Atch

New member
Donny said:
This thread brings up an excellent point...Filter the trail advice you get...two weekends back my wife and I went wheeling with a local club and at the trail head everyone got out to air down ( I have no source to air up again so we just chilled). Prior to mounting up to start down the trail the "leader" yelled out LOCKEM if you GOTem! (we do not have lockers) My wife looks at me and says "should we be going with them if we need lockers?"....The trail rating was 2.0:naw: so I told her we will tough it out:yup:.

At the lunch stop we talked to some folks about their rigs and lifts and got MANY recommendations on what to buy for our "limited" Unlimited. When asked what I was gonna do to it first I explained my "EVO ittiss" and desire to go to a Enforcer Kit or possibly the Coilover kits and I got the standard "Just get a TF or AEV kit and save yourself some money for .....many other items...

I realize there is many ways to approach a build but I wish there was a more logical way to get answers than trial and error with a pack of folks who hate products because they don't run it...

Donny
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I like how they said save yourself money and suggested AEV. AEV is pretty pricey for a bunch of brackets
 
JAGS

JAGS

Hooked
1BAMFR said:
I try to stay open all day when offroading....lock it up when I get into a jam or a ridiculous obstacle is approaching...
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I'm going with this mindset for the most part from now on. When in doubt I'll ask myself "would eddie lock em up?" Granted, I aint running Moby, but if I close my eyes and click my heels together...... a man can dream right. :cheesy:

Donny said:
This thread brings up an excellent point...Filter the trail advice you get...
I realize there is many ways to approach a build but I wish there was a more logical way to get answers than trial and error with a pack of folks who hate products because they don't run it...
Click to expand...

Very true. Everyone has an opinion so its hard to tell what to do or what to buy. That's why I like coming back to the WAL forum, because there are several handfuls of people with enough experience and know how to trust. :thumb::yup:
 
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