Trackbar dilema...

M

MaaMohTh

New member
Hey guys,
hope everyone is doing good! It's been a while since I last posted here... but you know... life....

anywhays... I got a question for y'all, last automn I changed my 35" to put the 32" winter back on it... after a few days I ended up having a deathwobble... kinda freaky when it happens but it gets worst after that cause you never know when it'll happen! So, went to the shop and .... tie-rod, drag-link had to be changed and the ball joints... hehehe one of the ball joints had about 1/4" play in it while the other one had close to 1/2" of play! So no luxury in changing them!... but... and that's where I'm baffled.... my caster angle changed!!!??? ... got stock arms yet, after removing the 35", it seems something bent somewhere or something cause yeah, the caster changed and now I have to play re-center the steering wheel everytime I turn a corner or make a lane change!!! Pretty F'ing annoying!!!...so here's the question... WHY ??? every bolt is torqed to spec, didn't see any egg holes...

...part 2! ;) hehehe.... the trackbar issue! I still have the stock one but it bends... and I have a feeling it's not strong enough since everytime I turn, I can feel it shift.. every bump I hit, I can feel the axle getting off-center.... so I started looking for trackbars... found 3 possibilities (3 available from where I live and budget wise too!) :

RockKrawler Bomb proof
ProComp trackbar
Curry with the JJ's

I know (I think!) Curry is the best wth their JJ's and all.. but budget wise, it's also the most expensive so .... does anyone have any feedback on any of those 3 trackbars ? ...keep in mind, DD weekend warrior, living up north where it's a mix of snow, ice, salt, sand, gravel for about 5-6months a year!

Pleeeeaaaaase help me out here!!!

Thx :)
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
MaaMohTh said:
Hey guys,
hope everyone is doing good! It's been a while since I last posted here... but you know... life....

anywhays... I got a question for y'all, last automn I changed my 35" to put the 32" winter back on it... after a few days I ended up having a deathwobble... kinda freaky when it happens but it gets worst after that cause you never know when it'll happen! So, went to the shop and .... tie-rod, drag-link had to be changed and the ball joints... hehehe one of the ball joints had about 1/4" play in it while the other one had close to 1/2" of play! So no luxury in changing them!... but... and that's where I'm baffled.... my caster angle changed!!!??? ... got stock arms yet, after removing the 35", it seems something bent somewhere or something cause yeah, the caster changed and now I have to play re-center the steering wheel everytime I turn a corner or make a lane change!!! Pretty F'ing annoying!!!...so here's the question... WHY ??? every bolt is torqed to spec, didn't see any egg holes...

...part 2! ;) hehehe.... the trackbar issue! I still have the stock one but it bends... and I have a feeling it's not strong enough since everytime I turn, I can feel it shift.. every bump I hit, I can feel the axle getting off-center.... so I started looking for trackbars... found 3 possibilities (3 available from where I live and budget wise too!) :

RockKrawler Bomb proof
ProComp trackbar
Curry with the JJ's

I know (I think!) Curry is the best wth their JJ's and all.. but budget wise, it's also the most expensive so .... does anyone have any feedback on any of those 3 trackbars ? ...keep in mind, DD weekend warrior, living up north where it's a mix of snow, ice, salt, sand, gravel for about 5-6months a year!

Pleeeeaaaaase help me out here!!!

Thx :)
Click to expand...

Are you sure the caster changed? Or was your toe not set right or your draglink not set right in regards to your steering. Also, sometimes new ball joints can be sticky when turning. Caster shouldn't change with any of those parts. Measure your control arms bolt to bolt. Uppers should be identical to each other and lowers should be identical to each other. If they aren't, one could be bent.

As far as track bar, I would have someone turn the steering wheel while you inspect to make sure there is no play anywhere.
 
M

MaaMohTh

New member
...well, I'm thinking it's my caster angle since all i've read on the subject points to that ...but then again, maybe I didn't read enough!

The trackbar bends a lot when I turn my wheels and it doesn't come back (or thats how it feels) when I turn. I always have to re-center the steering wheel... could it be the power-steering going bad ?

...I still think I'll have to change the trackbar ....my 3" zone offroad does off-center the axles a little... so I figured an adjustable trackbar should help...
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
MaaMohTh said:
So, went to the shop and .... tie-rod, drag-link had to be changed and the ball joints... hehehe one of the ball joints had about 1/4" play in it while the other one had close to 1/2" of play! So no luxury in changing them!... but... and that's where I'm baffled.... my caster angle changed!!!??? ... got stock arms yet, after removing the 35", it seems something bent somewhere or something cause yeah, the caster changed and now I have to play re-center the steering wheel everytime I turn a corner or make a lane change!!! Pretty F'ing annoying!!!...so here's the question... WHY ??? every bolt is torqed to spec, didn't see any egg holes...
Click to expand...

Well, what was your caster and what is it now?

...part 2! ;) hehehe.... the trackbar issue! I still have the stock one but it bends... and I have a feeling it's not strong enough since everytime I turn, I can feel it shift..
Click to expand...

Funny, I run factory track bars on both my JK's running 40" tires and it seems to hold up fine for me.

every bump I hit, I can feel the axle getting off-center....
Click to expand...

How much lift do you have and how do you know your axle is getting off center?
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
MaaMohTh said:
...well, I'm thinking it's my caster angle since all i've read on the subject points to that ...but then again, maybe I didn't read enough!

The trackbar bends a lot when I turn my wheels and it doesn't come back (or thats how it feels) when I turn. I always have to re-center the steering wheel... could it be the power-steering going bad ?

...I still think I'll have to change the trackbar ....my 3" zone offroad does off-center the axles a little... so I figured an adjustable trackbar should help...
Click to expand...

Ummm, have you checked your track bar mount at the axle to make sure it isn't tearing at the welds? Have you checked your drag link to make sure the adjustment coupler isn't loose?
 
jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
MaaMohTh said:
.... tie-rod, drag-link had to be changed and the ball joints...

...part 2! ;) hehehe.... the trackbar issue! I still have the stock one but it bends... and I have a feeling it's not strong enough since everytime I turn, I can feel it shift.. every bump I hit, I can feel the axle getting off-center.... so I started looking for trackbars... found 3 possibilities (3 available from where I live and budget wise too!

Thx :)
Click to expand...

if they changed the tie-rod and drag link, your steering would be off center. do you know for certain they re-centered your steering during the front end alignment? if they left the adjustment collar loose it would move cause the steering to get off center quickly. the adjustment collar needs to have the pinch seam line up properly with the clamp bolts to hold, if not lined up it will not hold properly

found the link to the pinch seam alignment:
http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?...Wheeling/page2&highlight=drag+link+adjustment

does the track bar bend or flex? when parked and you turn your steering left to right does the front of your Jeep appear to move up and down? get someone to sit in the drivers seat and turn the wheel full turn to turn as you watch the track bar. if it's loose you'll see the end moving (probably at the axle end). Be sure to have the Jeep in park and the brakes on!
 
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M

MaaMohTh

New member
hmmm.. got a lot to answer! hehehe
ok here goes...

the caster angle before.. I got no clue but I'll check as soon as it gets a little bit hotter here! -20C is not friendly for the fingers!

I have a 3 inch zone offroad lift... they supplied shocks, springs, 2 swaybar links and i relocation bracket for the rear but none for the front.
All bolts are torqed to specs, control arms, track bar, draglink, tie-rod.
The frame bracket looks just fine as far as I can tell.
Trackbar bushings have been changed.

As for the feel, when I got the jeep at first, it ran like a car, no steering issues no nothing, a real charm! Then I added the liftkit... still drove like a charm but when I stopped brutally, I could feel the body shifting from the axles...or twisting ... as if you're going right but the rest of the jeep is going left! Even when I hit a bump, I have to be careful not to let it do a lane change by itself! I know a jeep is a jeep but it would be nice to get the driving feel I had when I bought it or, at least, before I went ahead and put those 32" back on!

I'll do my homework this week and report back but to be honest, I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever get it back to "normal"

Thx.
 
M

MaaMohTh

New member
jeeeep said:
if they changed the tie-rod and drag link, your steering would be off center. do you know for certain they re-centered your steering during the front end alignment? if they left the adjustment collar loose it would move cause the steering to get off center quickly

does the track bar bend or flex? when parked and you turn your steering left to right does the front of your Jeep appear to move up and down? get someone to sit in the drivers seat and turn the wheel full turn to turn as you watch the track bar. if it's loose you'll see the end moving (probably at the axle end). Be sure to have the Jeep in park and the brakes on!
Click to expand...

it bends... and doesn't feel like it's getting it's shape back without me helping out with the steering...
it did go to the alignment shop once they installed the tie-rod, ball joints and draglink... but then again, I did have to re-tighten the bolts... so maybe something is still off... (sorry guys but it blows chunks to do this at -20C)...
 
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M

MaaMohTh

New member
Funny, I run factory track bars on both my JK's running 40" tires and it seems to hold up fine for me.
Click to expand...

I know! I've read it a few times here that a lot of you'z are using the stock trackbar...thats why i'm asking!
I don't have the budget to pay for something I don't need but seeing it bend about 1" upwards on full turn does make me uncomfortable...
I don't offroad as much as I would like but then again, the streets here are... well... urban offroading!!! ;)
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
MaaMohTh said:
the caster angle before.. I got no clue but I'll check as soon as it gets a little bit hotter here! -20C is not friendly for the fingers!
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, if you don't know what it was before, how do you know it changed since then?

The frame bracket looks just fine as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

I asked about the AXLE bracket.

Trackbar bushings have been changed.
Click to expand...

Changed? Changed with what and why? Why year is your JK?
 
M

MaaMohTh

New member
wayoflife said:
Don't get me wrong, if you don't know what it was before, how do you know it changed since then?



I asked about the AXLE bracket.



Changed? Changed with what and why? Why year is your JK?
Click to expand...

hmmm.. well, everything I read about the alignment pointed to the caster not being set properly. The fact that the sterring wont come back to it's normal place when I turn on a corner, the fact that I can go over a lot of small bumps without the steering moving at all.. I might be wrong to think it's the caster but I'm just going with what I read and what seems to be logical conclusions to me.. When I do a turn, the steering will recover for about half the travel it did to turn the jeep but as I start going forward, if I don't re-center the steering, i'll just keep turning!

The Axle bracket looked fine last I checked, not bent or anything and doesn't look like it tearing up either.

My JKU is a 2011 sahara. The trackbar was moving at the bolt holes especially the one on the axle so the guy at the shop replaced the bushings (with the equivalent to stock ones) and since then, the trackbar has stopped moving at the bolt holes but the darn thing flexes a lot (imo)

...quite the learning curve with no garage or much money to spare...
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
MaaMohTh said:
hmmm.. well, everything I read about the alignment pointed to the caster not being set properly. The fact that the sterring wont come back to it's normal place when I turn on a corner, the fact that I can go over a lot of small bumps without the steering moving at all.. I might be wrong to think it's the caster but I'm just going with what I read and what seems to be logical conclusions to me.. When I do a turn, the steering will recover for about half the travel it did to turn the jeep but as I start going forward, if I don't re-center the steering, i'll just keep turning!
Click to expand...

Brand new ball joints especially cheaper ones will do the same thing until they break in. A dented or damaged steering stabilizer will do the same thing.

My JKU is a 2011 sahara. The trackbar was moving at the bolt holes especially the one on the axle so the guy at the shop replaced the bushings (with the equivalent to stock ones) and since then, the trackbar has stopped moving at the bolt holes but the darn thing flexes a lot (imo)

...quite the learning curve with no garage or much money to spare...
Click to expand...

WTF? First off, you might need to find a new shop. A 2011 track bar will have a clevite bushing at the axle end and a cheap spherical joint at the frame end. To the best of my knowledge, there is NO replacement bushing for the frame end and you CANNOT install a clevite bushing in its place. So, either you had nothing done and got ripped off or you don't have a factory track bar. As far as movement at the bolt holes go, the only thing that will stop that is having the bolts tightened to the proper torque spec.
 
M

MaaMohTh

New member
Ball Joints are G2 ... shouldn't be the cheapest ones on the market I think...
looks like I'll be doing more work on the jeep than putting mud on t this summer!

Thx for the input :)

but uhmm.. is it normal that the trackbar bends about 1inch upwards when I turn the wheels ??? either side..
 
JKbrick

JKbrick

Active Member
Sounds like you have bump steer going on. Did you put a drop pitman arm on but do nothing to the track bar? They either both need to move or both be left alone
 
wayoflife

wayoflife

Administrator
Staff member
MaaMohTh said:
Ball Joints are G2 ... shouldn't be the cheapest ones on the market I think...
Click to expand...

You think wrong.

but uhmm.. is it normal that the trackbar bends about 1inch upwards when I turn the wheels ??? either side..
Click to expand...

As others have asked, you really need to post a video of this. I have NEVER seen a factory track bar bend without it STAYING bent.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

New member
Have you checked to see if the bolt holes where the track bar mounts have been egged out. I had the frame ends get egged from the bolts loosening up. Then no matter how much you torque it down to pinch the sleeve it still wanders around causing strange handling issues.
I also want to see a video of your track bar bending!
 
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