Loose/flighty/“Dead spot” in steering

RageKage

RageKage

Member
I’ve searched the forum with no luck so I don’t know if my solution may be posted up already, but I digress, anyways while driving it feels like there is a “dead spot” in my steering from about the point of the steering wheel at center and slightly when turning to the left and right. Ive checked all my steering components and re-torqued everything to spec. Before I tighten up the gear box is there anything else I should check or is this just normal with a lift and larger tires on the stock gear box? It’s never really bothered me, but I know it’s there and when others have drove my jeep they immediately complain about how shitty the steering is. Any help would be awesome. Thank guys!


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WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
How many miles on the Jeep? Pretty rare that you would need to adjust the box. Plus, if you don't do it right, you can damage it. What's your caster angle at? Are you 100% sure track bar bolts are torqued and bushings don't have play?
 
RageKage

RageKage

Member
33,340ish. Caster is crap cuz I have a 6 1/2” lift with 37’s on a stock Dana 30 [emoji23], so I just removed the front driveshaft and caster was left as close to stock as possible. That honestly could be the whole problem. Yes I’m sure. I just re-centered the axle and did an alignment a few days ago and made sure everything was torqued and bushings were good.


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10frank9

10frank9

Web Wheeler
I too would recommend checking your caster and track bar, rule all of that out before deciding to hop into the steering box.

Is this all new, maybe after changing or installing something?


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RageKage

RageKage

Member
10frank9 said:
I too would recommend checking your caster and track bar, rule all of that out before deciding to hop into the steering box.

Is this all new, maybe after changing or installing something?


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Click to expand...

No not new. Lift and tires were installed a little over 3 years ago. I known about the “dead spot” but just wrote it off as being normal due to bigger lift and tires. It wasn’t until recently and other people complaining that I’ve decided to look into anything


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WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
If you have a 6.5 inch lift, I assume you have an aftermarket drop pitman arm. Make sure those splines are tight on the sector shaft and that the pitman arm nut is tight. And definitely try to get your caster back around 4+. Did your issue start after the lift was installed?
 
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10frank9

10frank9

Web Wheeler
RageKage said:
33,340ish. Caster is crap cuz I have a 6 1/2” lift with 37’s on a stock Dana 30 [emoji23], so I just removed the front driveshaft and caster was left as close to stock as possible. That honestly could be the whole problem. Yes I’m sure. I just re-centered the axle and did an alignment a few days ago and made sure everything was torqued and bushings were good.


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Click to expand...

No front DS and a 6 1/2” lift???

Need I say more? Drag link flip or anything done to help that extreme steering angle? Check your caster I’m sure it’s screwed.
 
RageKage

RageKage

Member
WJCO said:
If you have a 6.5 inch lift, I assume you have an aftermarket drop pitman arm. Make sure those splines are tight on the sector shaft and that the pitman arm nut is tight. And definitely try to get your caster back around 4+. Did your issue start after the lift was installed?
Click to expand...

See that’s where I think I have another problem. When the lift was installed they did a pitman arm drop but no drag link flip with a raised track bar. After I did more research I realized I needed a flipped drag link so I installed one but still have the drop pitman arm. I will be going back to a stock pitman arm soon to help with the parallel of drag link to track bar so that could be another issue adding to what I’m feeling. Yes “dead spot” was noticed after lift was installed then dual stabilizers removed to only one now, and drag link flipped. It’s a long story but I feel like I’m trying to fix my f*ck up of going with such a large lift with minimal knowledge of how jeep suspensions worked.


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RageKage

RageKage

Member
10frank9 said:
No front DS and a 6 1/2” lift???

Need I say more? Drag link flip or anything done to help that extreme steering angle? Check your caster I’m sure it’s screwed.
Click to expand...

Yes pinion angle was atrocious hence why I removed the from D/S it was starting to eat itself apart so to prevent further damages I just removed it until I can get a Dana 44 upfront and an adams D/S. Drag link is flipped but also have a drop pitman arm from the lift kit.


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TRLJNKY

TRLJNKY

New member
I seriously caution messing with the gearbox. Ive seen them lock up if not dialed in right. Would suck if your on the hwy. These guys are giving you some good insight with caster and steering geometry correction if not done already.

aka cavfighter
 
WJCO

WJCO

Meme King
Post some pics of your drag link and track bar. Even if they aren't parallel, that shouldn't be the cause of the dead spot. I'm guessing that the splines on your pitman arm aren't as tight as the OEM arm or that nut isn't fully tightened. If you have someone turn the steering wheel while you have your hand on the pitman arm, you should be able to feel if it's loose.
 
A.J.

A.J.

Active Member
I have seen " dead spots" in steering stabilizers. Pretty easy to check. Just unbolt one end of it and cycle it in and out. You will feel it if it has it. Really though it sounds like your geometry is all kinds of screwed up. Take a few pictures from front center of steering it helps to visualize.


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jeeeep

jeeeep

Hooked
RageKage said:
I’ve searched the forum with no luck so I don’t know if my solution may be posted up already, but I digress, anyways while driving it feels like there is a “dead spot” in my steering from about the point of the steering wheel at center and slightly when turning to the left and right. Ive checked all my steering components and re-torqued everything to spec. Before I tighten up the gear box is there anything else I should check or is this just normal with a lift and larger tires on the stock gear box? It’s never really bothered me, but I know it’s there and when others have drove my jeep they immediately complain about how shitty the steering is. Any help would be awesome. Thank guys!

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Click to expand...

you're running the BDS long arm all bolt on or are the brackets welded on?

if it's just bolted on, I'd check the bolts on all the brackets including the track bar.

sounds like you have the stock front DS?

you've checked your caster and it's close to stock?

also loosen the control arms and with the Jeep on the ground, give it good jounce (shakedown) so any binding is released.

torque everything to spec.

as mentioned, I wouldn't mess with the gear box.
 
RageKage

RageKage

Member
BaddestCross said:
Sounds like a ballerina trying to run a 100 yard dash.

Jesus, how'd you put up with this for so long? Your Jeep has to handle like shit.

--
Build Thread - Adventures of Fiona - https://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=47407
Click to expand...

I never really thought it was that bad. And having never drove anyone else’s jeep besides my 74 CJ5 which drives like a boat I really don’t have anything to compare it to. So I never second guessed it.


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RageKage

RageKage

Member
jeeeep said:
you're running the BDS long arm all bolt on or are the brackets welded on?

if it's just bolted on, I'd check the bolts on all the brackets including the track bar.

sounds like you have the stock front DS?

you've checked your caster and it's close to stock?

also loosen the control arms and with the Jeep on the ground, give it good jounce (shakedown) so any binding is released.

torque everything to spec.

as mentioned, I wouldn't mess with the gear box.
Click to expand...

I can look but I thought they were welded in. Could be bolted. And no I removed the front D/S cuz it was shearing itself apart and I didn’t want to cause further damage but that also allowed me to have relatively close to stock caster.


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DWiggles

DWiggles

Caught the Bug
I think it is also possible that what your friends are calling a "dead spot" is just them being used to rack and pinion steering, opposed to the "oldschool" Ackerman system, along with the roll of the drag link.

Before I went to cylinder assist, I tried everything in the world to tighten up the steering feel. The added caster of the PR44 helped a ton with the "sawing at the wheel" on road trips (removing my front drive shaft was NOT an option for me.) But Ultimately, the wheel still had a bit more play then I wanted. what gave me the modern feel I was looking for all along was the cylinder assist kit. :thumb:

Its just a bonus how much it helps in the rocks. On the street, its amazing! :thumb: on my list MUST HAVE's for sure
 
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RageKage

RageKage

Member
DWiggles said:
I think it is also possible that what your friends are calling a "dead spot" is just them being used to rack and pinion steering, opposed to the "oldschool" Ackerman system, along with the roll of the drag link.

Before I went to cylinder assist, I tried everything in the world to tighten up the steering feel. The added caster of the PR44 helped a ton with the "sawing at the wheel" on road trips (removing my front drive shaft was NOT an option for me.) But Ultimately, the wheel still had a bit more play then I wanted. what gave me the modern feel I was looking for all along was the cylinder assist kit. :thumb:

Its just a bonus how much it helps in the rocks. On the street, its amazing! :thumb: on my list MUST HAVE's for sure
Click to expand...

They could be used to that but they both drive a 2005 or newer vehicle so I’m not sure about that. But then again both drive trucks with IFS so who knows what they are feeling. Cylinder assist is definitely on my list along with the bigger gear box that was posted on the forum a while ago.


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DWiggles

DWiggles

Caught the Bug
RageKage said:
They could be used to that but they both drive a 2005 or newer vehicle so I’m not sure about that. But then again both drive trucks with IFS so who knows what they are feeling. Cylinder assist is definitely on my list along with the bigger gear box that was posted on the forum a while ago.


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Click to expand...

So... rack and pinion systems... Which is a FAR superior system... HOWEVER it isn't currently feasible with solid axle builds. Which is one of the many reasons why MOST pickups and SUVs have moved over to IFS... The benifits of the solid front axle will IMMEDIATELY be apparent in the rocks. On the pavement, there is no denying that a modern IFS system as a whole (steering included) will be more refined compared to a modern solid axle Ackerman... even in its factory forum... :twocents:
 
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RageKage

RageKage

Member
DWiggles said:
So... rack and pinion systems... Which is a FAR superior system... HOWEVER it isn't currently feasible with solid axle builds. Which is one of the many reasons why MOST pickups and SUVs have moved over to IFS... The benifits of the solid front axle will IMMEDIATELY be apparent in the rocks. On the pavement, there is no denying that a modern IFS system as a whole (steering included) will be more refined compared to a modern solid axle Ackerman... even in its factory forum... :twocents:
Click to expand...

Agreed.


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