A lift that rides better than stock...truth or fiction??

[10frank9]

My Metal Cloak Game Changer rides butter smooth. Much better than stock.

Flash

That's so cool. My EVO Mfg. Enforcer feels the same way! :crazy eyes:

 

[MTG]

If it will be anything like the difference between lowering springs/shocks vs coilovers on a car, then I already know it's worth the money for ride quality alone.

It's not.

I'm just not sure where to draw the line.

Figure out your budget and start/stop there.

I'm not sure I need triple bypass shocks, plus the amount of money required to utilize the DTD is a huge downfall IMO on the JK, where in a perfect world where money didn't matter, I would be all about it, but here in reality, I don't ever see myself bombing though the desert and if I was, my natural driving tendency would be to slow down for the whoops,

Then you probably don't even need bypass shocks let alone coilovers.

my point was to bring attention of other "middle ground setups" as the original post read as though "coil and shock combo, or DTD period.

Just here to "raise awareness"? :cheesy:

So I'm very much in "the research phase" and am curious why the bolt on coilovers F&R, or the front 12" coilovers and the rear EvoLever was not reccomended, only the full blown DTD system.

That was my post you quoted and what I recommend. It was the shorthand version of what has been posted many times before. But IMHO I don't think most people need coilovers, hell MOST people probably don't even need a lift or bigger tires. I simply don't see the incremental gain in the bolt ons being worth the additional cost. If you think they are, great. But, there just isn't a big enough noticeable gain in performance to justify the additional cost. Just my opinion. However, so nobody gets their feelings hurt….

Smaller budget: EVO Enforcer kit with Bilstein/Rancho shocks and drag link flip kit (I wouldn't bother with anything else, save until you can get this).
Bigger budget: Same, but get King shocks 2.0s or 2.5s
Bigger budget still: Bolt on coilovers
Bigger budget than the one above, but not quite big enough: DTD/Evolever but skip the triple bypass shocks until you can afford them
Budget not a concern: DTD/EvoLever with triple bypass shocks

 

[MTG]

How's their tie rod work?

It's so happy it smiles at you.

 

[DWiggles]

It's not.



Figure out your budget and start/stop there.



Then you probably don't even need bypass shocks let alone coilovers.


Just here to "raise awareness"? :cheesy:



That was my post you quoted and what I recommend. It was the shorthand version of what has been posted many times before. But IMHO I don't think most people need coilovers, hell MOST people probably don't even need a lift or bigger tires. I simply don't see the incremental gain in the bolt ons being worth the additional cost. If you think they are, great. But, there just isn't a big enough noticeable gain in performance to justify the additional cost. Just my opinion. However, so nobody gets their feelings hurt….

Smaller budget: EVO Enforcer kit with Bilstein/Rancho shocks and drag link flip kit (I wouldn't bother with anything else, save until you can get this).
Bigger budget: Same, but get King shocks 2.0s or 2.5s
Bigger budget still: Bolt on coilovers
Bigger budget than the one above, but not quite big enough: DTD/Evolever but skip the triple bypass shocks until you can afford them
Budget not a concern: DTD/EvoLever with triple bypass shocks

So you would recommend a DTD system for someone running stock axles? I mean, from what I read, a minimum of $30k to utilize the DTD system with the factory power plant. (Pr60 front, pr80 rear) that's a pretty large chunk of change to reccomended for someone looking for a better performing suspension then a standard sping/shock combo... but that's just me.

So your opinion in that the Evo bolt ons OR the front 12" coilovers and rear EvoLever WITHOUT the triple bypass shocks are no different then a standard coil & shock lift?

So the benifits of running a coilover over a standard spring & shock setup were non existent before the DTD kit was released? Then why did they even exist? :cheesy:

I'm not trying to call you out specifically, I'm just trying to learn from those with experience. If you don't know, there is no shame in that. I don't know, and I'm sure many many others don't either. but from a pure noob standpoint, I'll have to continue to respectfully disagree with your opinion. While I do see the benifit of the DTD over the others, I do not see how the lesser "coilover & evolever" or even the Bolton coilovers wouldn't produce a more capable/comfortablr rig then a standard coil & shock lift, even one with bypass shocks.

 

[OverlanderJK]

So you would recommend a DTD system for someone running stock axles? I mean, from what I read, a minimum of $30k to utilize the DTD system with the factory power plant. (Pr60 front, pr80 rear) that's a pretty large chunk of change to reccomended for someone looking for a better performing suspension then a standard sping/shock combo... but that's just me.

So your opinion in that the Evo bolt ons OR the front 12" coilovers and rear EvoLever WITHOUT the triple bypass shocks are no different then a standard coil & shock lift?

So the benifits of running a coilover over a standard spring & shock setup were non existent before the DTD kit was released? Then why did they even exist? :cheesy:

I'm not trying to call you out specifically, I'm just trying to learn from those with experience. If you don't know, there is no shame in that. I don't either, and I'm sure many many others don't either. but from a pure noob standpoint, I'll have to continue to respectfully disagree with your opinion. While I do see the benifit of the DTD over the others, I do not see how the lesser "coilover & evolever" or even the Bolton coilovers wouldn't produce a more capable/comfortablr rig then a standard coil & shock lift, even one with bypass shocks.

What.

The.

Fuck.

??

 

[piginajeep]

So you would recommend a DTD system for someone running stock axles? I mean, from what I read, a minimum of $30k to utilize the DTD system with the factory power plant. (Pr60 front, pr80 rear) that's a pretty large chunk of change to reccomended for someone looking for a better performing suspension then a standard sping/shock combo... but that's just me.

So your opinion in that the Evo bolt ons OR the front 12" coilovers and rear EvoLever WITHOUT the triple bypass shocks are no different then a standard coil & shock lift?

So the benifits of running a coilover over a standard spring & shock setup were non existent before the DTD kit was released? Then why did they even exist? :cheesy:

I'm not trying to call you out specifically, I'm just trying to learn from those with experience. If you don't know, there is no shame in that. I don't know, and I'm sure many many others don't either. but from a pure noob standpoint, I'll have to continue to respectfully disagree with your opinion. While I do see the benifit of the DTD over the others, I do not see how the lesser "coilover & evolever" or even the Bolton coilovers wouldn't produce a more capable/comfortablr rig then a standard coil & shock lift, even one with bypass shocks.

..................

 

[DWiggles]

What.

The.

Fuck.

??

Exactly, thats why I asked the question. I mean, I don't understand how your taking a request for jeep related knowledge and explanation of that knowlege on an Internet forum for jeeps in a negative way? I'm not cursing, or using derogatory statements, I respectfully desagreed with the way I am understanding your post. It's not personal. I am seeking knowlege. I'm sorry for offending you with questions :yep: :crazy:

 

[OverlanderJK]

Exactly, thats why I asked the questions? I mean, I don't understand how your taking a request for jeep related knowledge and explanation of that knowlege on an Internet forum for jeeps in a negative way? I'm not cursing, or using derogatory statements, I respectfully desagreed with the way I am understanding your post. It's not personal. I am seeking knowlege. I'm sorry for offending you with questions :yep: :crazy:

Offending me? I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you are saying.

 

[DWiggles]

Offending me? I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you are saying.

I'm trying to understand the benifits and drawbacks of the different evo/king coilover kits offered, so that I can better choose which is best for my use.

My understanding of your original post was that if you do not plan to fully utilize a DTD setup, then a spring & shock lift would be better served.

To which I replied again, attempting to explain my understanding of your post, and asked for information regarding the "non triple bypass" options.

I do not understand the mechanical advantage of the 14" coilover vs the 12" when both are advertised to have the same travel (full stuff to droop), or the rear bolt on coilovers vs the evolever (non DTD), this is the original goal of my question. To better understand the different packages, so that I can make an informed, educated, and proper suspension purchasing decision.

 

[10frank9]

I'm trying to understand the benifits and drawbacks of the different evo/king coilover kits offered, so that I can better choose which is best for my use.

My understanding of your original post was that if you do not plan to fully utilize a DTD setup, then a spring & shock lift would be better served.

To which I replied again, attempting to explain my understanding of your post, and asked for information regarding the "non triple bypass" options.

I do not understand the mechanical advantage of the 14" coilover vs the 12" when both are advertised to have the same travel (full stuff to droop), or the rear bolt on coilovers vs the evolever (non DTD), this is the original goal of my question. To better understand the different packages, so that I can make an informed, educated, and proper suspension purchasing decision.

You DO realize Overlander wasn't the one that made those statements right?

 

[ttfhell]

I don't know much but I know that none of these options are right for you. The little voice in my head keeps telling me something is "off" here.

 

[10frank9]

I don't know much but I know that none of these options are right for you. The little voice in my head keeps telling me something is "off" here.

Which voice? :idontknow:

 

[Sharkey]

So you would recommend a DTD system for someone running stock axles?...I do not see how the lesser "coilover & evolever" or even the Bolton coilovers wouldn't produce a more capable/comfortablr rig then a standard coil & shock lift, even one with bypass shocks.

First, if I had the coin, I'd run a DTD with a stock axle in a heartbeat. The need for a 60/60 or 60/80 combo has more to do with tire size than anything else. 35's and a DTD would be a pretty sweet sleeper combo in my opinion. When and if the front gave out, I'd get a pr44 and be happy as a clam.

Second, I laughed out loud that your mobile device automatically corrected "bolt on" to "Bolton". Listen to adult pop rock much?

 

[10frank9]

yeah?

First, if I had the coin, I'd run a DTD with a stock axle in a heartbeat. The need for a 60/60 or 60/80 combo has more to do with tire size than anything else. 35's and a DTD would be a pretty sweet sleeper combo in my opinion. When and if the front gave out, I'd get a pr44 and be happy as a clam.

Second, I laughed out loud that your mobile device automatically corrected "bolt on" to "Bolton". Listen to adult pop rock much?

 

[crippledpetey]

How's their tie rod work?

It has a great sense of humor

 

[MTG]

So you would recommend a DTD system for someone running stock axles?

...

So your opinion in that the Evo bolt ons OR the front 12" coilovers and rear EvoLever WITHOUT the triple bypass shocks are no different then a standard coil & shock lift?

So the benifits of running a coilover over a standard spring & shock setup were non existent before the DTD kit was released?

If you read what I wrote and got ^ from it. I'm going to suggest that if you have anything sharper than some children's left-handed-safety-scissors in the house, you should let a responsible adult handle them from this point forward.

I'm not trying to call you out specifically,

I guess I can sleep good tonight. :crazyeyes:

 

[JAGS]

I'm trying to understand the benifits and drawbacks of the different evo/king coilover kits offered, so that I can better choose which is best for my use.
.

Ok mr wiggles. Oh man. What is funny is when I know more than someone else. The last few hrs of this make even myself feel smart.

Here's a really basic explanation of some lifts. Take this for what it is worth and knowing everyone posting posting before me knows WAY more than I. From a newb still learning too, Try to stay with me here.

Stock rubicon: awesome jeep, nice suspension, ride smooth and can do all beginner trails and some moderate trails. Don't go too fast over whoops as stock shocks aren't built for that speed and constant compression. Plenty jeep for most. I ran stock rubi for 2 yrs myself.

Budget boost and big tires: same as above except now you've added some underbelly and ground clearance. Again, plenty for most.

Coil and shock lift: let's just talk EVO enforcer ok. Great coils. Rides as good or better than stock. Draglink flip and lower control arms get all suspension angles back in proper alignment. With some decent shocks you can add a little speed. With some nicer shocks even more speed. Some King 2.5 with bypass, you've got the best in class and one of the best on road drives and great off-road with speed and suspension travel.

Still with me?

Coilovers (CO): maybe lose a little bit of on road feel over the coil/shock enforcer. Gain a bit of suspension travel/articulation. Gain a little more speed in faster off-road driving.

Evo lever: an enhanced CO drive for rear suspension set up.

DTD: let's not get in over our heads. That's for you and me both. When you get to this level, you are more than a weekend warrior and some basic fun. It's truly built for prime time. I couldn't begin to speak its praise...as you shouldn't begin to consider this set up.

Ok so that was a ton of shit from someone still learning. But hopefully you gained a little knowledge.

If nothing else I made everyone laugh at my sorry attempt. Lol. :cheesy:

 

[DWiggles]

The DTD is definitely overkill for 95% of jeepers out there including Mr Wiggles. Hell it's overkill for a lot of people that run it.

I already said I would not utilize the DTD in my first post, so no argument there :thumb:

Buying three different lifts like I did before settling on the best isn't the way to do it. Neither is buying the best and not using it to its fullest capabilities and regretting the cost like the guy in your club.

This is exactly what I want to avoid, I'm not here to waste money. I'm here to learn facts, and take into account opinions. hence asking... perhaps my question was to complex. I'll try to simple it down in another thread. maybe that will be less offensive. :thinking: :crazyeyes:

 

[olram30]

I already said I would not utilize the DTD in my first post, so no argument there :thumb:



This is exactly what I want to avoid, I'm not here to waste money. I'm here to learn facts, and take into account opinions. hence asking... perhaps my question was to complex. I'll try to simple it down in another thread. maybe that will be less offensive. :thinking: :crazyeyes:

What exactly are you wanting out of a lift? What will YOU be doing? What size tires? I'm not going back and reading.

 

[Reaper]

DTD is well worth the money.....If you have the money. <~~~~~~~Poor guy here!