Majik
Member
Thanks! :wings: My boys and I worked really hard on that project... I'll be sure to share the compliment with them! :clap2:
My own JK 'Big Brake' research:
- Thread starter Majik
- Start date
Thanks! :wings: My boys and I worked really hard on that project... I'll be sure to share the compliment with them! :clap2:
Thank you for all the work, research and money you are putting into this. It is much appreciated.
I've taken the time to read it over the course of about 1 week, back in Sept.
so, with all of your testing and research, I think you mentioned some direct bolt on options that would improve braking to some extent. Do you have that info handy?
I'm thinking for the 315-70/17 BFG A/T's I run, I would like a little better braking, but probably don't need to go to the extreme you guys running 37's and up will.
I think there were 2 other master cyl. options, from a durango and a 1500 pick up? any specific year? what about larger vented rotors? and someone suggested 100% ceramic pads? what about different bolt on calipers with same volume but allow a larger rotor?
I've taken the time to read it over the course of about 1 week, back in Sept.
so, with all of your testing and research, I think you mentioned some direct bolt on options that would improve braking to some extent. Do you have that info handy?
I'm thinking for the 315-70/17 BFG A/T's I run, I would like a little better braking, but probably don't need to go to the extreme you guys running 37's and up will.
I think there were 2 other master cyl. options, from a durango and a 1500 pick up? any specific year? what about larger vented rotors? and someone suggested 100% ceramic pads? what about different bolt on calipers with same volume but allow a larger rotor?
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JK_Dave
Caught the Bug
Welcome to Wayalife swampjeep. I think once all the testing is complete, we'll likely see some different upgrade paths depending on how hard core we're each looking to go.
Our friend Majik has already said he's coming up with plans for the single 4 piston caliper setup and a dual 4 piston caliper setup so I'm sure based on what he's found out already could also offer his opinion for those looking to keep the stock calipers and upgrade the other components alone.
BTW Majik, I'm hopping on the band wagon as well! :blush: It's always impressive when you see a practical application of book knowledge to a real world project. Nothing like seeing something come together with your own hands! I feel like I already owe you a case of :beer: for all your work so far!
Our friend Majik has already said he's coming up with plans for the single 4 piston caliper setup and a dual 4 piston caliper setup so I'm sure based on what he's found out already could also offer his opinion for those looking to keep the stock calipers and upgrade the other components alone.
BTW Majik, I'm hopping on the band wagon as well! :blush: It's always impressive when you see a practical application of book knowledge to a real world project. Nothing like seeing something come together with your own hands! I feel like I already owe you a case of :beer: for all your work so far!
MAMUT
Member
I posted this pic a few months back, but this is what happens when someone cuts you off and gets on their brakes. I'm running 37's and breaking is a huge factor. You really have to plan ahead. They got in trouble for the blackout lenses over the tail lights, you cant see the brake lights on a sunny day. My jeep turned out perfectly fine other than they scratched my paint on the stinger. The Accord on the other hand got totalled. Their rear window shattered as you can see.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using WAYALIFE mobile app
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using WAYALIFE mobile app
Attachments
JK's JK
Banned
That's what happeneds when you meet, well build. Damn plastic cars these days!!! :naw:
Interested in the results as well.... doing some research, 14" is easy if you go with 18" wheels, but then that limits your tire selection..
Majik
Member
14" will work with the 17" wheels. I agree...18s just limit tires too much.
Thank you all for staying tuned. Almost there! I just keep thinking of it this way: If it was an easy kit to produce, then there would be bunches out there to choose from. If only a rare few companies that do such mods as their business have been able to put a kit together, then I feel better about the time, difficulties, and effort I've put into it. Thanks again for your support. It will be worth it...
Livin4Today
New member
Wow! 6 months for you, 6 hours of reading for me (so far), keep up the great work, I'm as interested as everyone else. You are tenacious for sure, and have a heck of a lot of patience... No way in hell I could sit on all the goodies you're sitting on for this long, yet I don't have any kids riding with me. Looking forward to the final outcome, and saving grace...
Majik
Member
Well I've been doing some minor rethinking of my parts selection, trying to ensure compatibility with the largest amount of Jeep rigs as possible. My near complete solution runs on the ragged edge of the biggest rotor and caliper that I can squeeze in a wheel, however, I've found a solution that may be a slight reduction in rotor size, but ensure way more compatibility for everyone out there. This gets complicated, but it has to do with clearances with the inner rim bead, the rim spokes, potential stick-on wheel weights used on the inside of the rim, the tie rod mounting tab on the steering knuckle...and on and on and on...
-- I also have been doing extensive research and testing regarding caliper stiffness. And there are some AMAZING results regarding this.... I even have a video of the stock caliper on my jeep, with the camera mounted in the wheel well, showing the massive flexing open the caliper does when you stomp the brakes like in an emergency stop... it is mind boggling and explains so many of the limitations of a stock system...
-- Brake pad compounds have also been researched. And I will give you guys a heads up on this: the pads I will ultimately recommend are going to produce a fair amount of dust. No they aren't ceramic. Yep, you will likely replace them every 30k or so. Why? Because you will pick up 30-40% in pad bite. A 30% increase in pad to rotor friction is worth more than the theoretical brake torque gained from increasing from a 12" to a 15" rotor!!! That's massive!! Let me restate that: you can get as much benefit from a pad with a 30% increase in coefficient of friction as increasing your rotor diameter from 12 to 15 inches!! The main reason that alot of brakes aren't marketed this way is because Joe Public complains about brake dust and pad replacement more than they complain about crummy brakes. And it's worth it. So I'm warning in advance - no whining about dust.
If you are worried about dust on your wheels, or demand 90k miles between pad changes, you don't need this upgrade... or at least will not ever utillize its full potential anyway.
So... you all know by now that this huge-ass long thread has basically been an active look into my thought process. And, I guess, the thought processes of any company that has tried to put out a better JK brake package. I've identified so, so many of the constraints that we must work within to build a brake package:
-- wheel size
-- knuckle mount tab location
-- limited rotor offset (more offset will hit the tie rod mount)
-- fixed (or nearly) master cylinder bore... (not enough space under that cramped hood for a bigger off the shelf master cylinder)
-- ... which limits caliper piston bore surface area choice...
-- insufficient room under the hood for a simple hydroboost setup
-- rear rotor choice that allows stock parking brake use
-- narrow range of front/rear brake bias allowable to avoid rear wheel lockup
... I could go on for days. But this is what I've been up against. Just FYI.
SO... I may be incorporating a slightly smaller rotor to allow for a much larger percentage of Jeep guys and gals to bolt this on their rigs without issues. However, it looks like the stiffness I gain with a correct caliper choice AND a massive friction increase with proper pad choice will make the system perform way better than the original rotor size I proposed.
I hope I haven't bored anyone. And, well, if I did, there's plenty of other things to read on the internet! :bleh: But for those still following... I hope we are learning together!
-- I also have been doing extensive research and testing regarding caliper stiffness. And there are some AMAZING results regarding this.... I even have a video of the stock caliper on my jeep, with the camera mounted in the wheel well, showing the massive flexing open the caliper does when you stomp the brakes like in an emergency stop... it is mind boggling and explains so many of the limitations of a stock system...
-- Brake pad compounds have also been researched. And I will give you guys a heads up on this: the pads I will ultimately recommend are going to produce a fair amount of dust. No they aren't ceramic. Yep, you will likely replace them every 30k or so. Why? Because you will pick up 30-40% in pad bite. A 30% increase in pad to rotor friction is worth more than the theoretical brake torque gained from increasing from a 12" to a 15" rotor!!! That's massive!! Let me restate that: you can get as much benefit from a pad with a 30% increase in coefficient of friction as increasing your rotor diameter from 12 to 15 inches!! The main reason that alot of brakes aren't marketed this way is because Joe Public complains about brake dust and pad replacement more than they complain about crummy brakes. And it's worth it. So I'm warning in advance - no whining about dust.
If you are worried about dust on your wheels, or demand 90k miles between pad changes, you don't need this upgrade... or at least will not ever utillize its full potential anyway.So... you all know by now that this huge-ass long thread has basically been an active look into my thought process. And, I guess, the thought processes of any company that has tried to put out a better JK brake package. I've identified so, so many of the constraints that we must work within to build a brake package:
-- wheel size
-- knuckle mount tab location
-- limited rotor offset (more offset will hit the tie rod mount)
-- fixed (or nearly) master cylinder bore... (not enough space under that cramped hood for a bigger off the shelf master cylinder)
-- ... which limits caliper piston bore surface area choice...
-- insufficient room under the hood for a simple hydroboost setup
-- rear rotor choice that allows stock parking brake use
-- narrow range of front/rear brake bias allowable to avoid rear wheel lockup
... I could go on for days. But this is what I've been up against. Just FYI.
SO... I may be incorporating a slightly smaller rotor to allow for a much larger percentage of Jeep guys and gals to bolt this on their rigs without issues. However, it looks like the stiffness I gain with a correct caliper choice AND a massive friction increase with proper pad choice will make the system perform way better than the original rotor size I proposed.
I hope I haven't bored anyone. And, well, if I did, there's plenty of other things to read on the internet! :bleh: But for those still following... I hope we are learning together!
Tumbleweed
Member
Bored? Not a chance.
Thank you so much for all your time, money and efforts in this research. It is not in vain and is most definitely appreciated.
Thank you so much for all your time, money and efforts in this research. It is not in vain and is most definitely appreciated.
Brankz
New member
Majik
Member
Well I just didn't want it to end up being a "you can bolt it on, but only if you have < 4 in of wheel backspacing, with only certain brands of wheels, only installed on the second Tuesday of the month, and an angle grinder might be needed..." kind of 'Bolt-On'.
It was just a matter of doing a little more thinking to make up for a slightly smaller rotor (but still much bigger than stock) with other ways of improving the brake torque. Like I discussed way, way back... we can gain from either rotor size increase, clamping force increase, or pad to rotor friction increase. So I'm just focusing a little more towards #2 and #3 on that list. Where I should have been focused all along
...