NEVER talk to the police!

[TheStick]

I don't think the issue is so black and white. I am one who will always be courteous, answer reasonable questions as I would if anyone asked them. I make eye contact and say hello as I pass people. These are things I think we should do as just fellow humans on this planet. I do however think there should be a healthy skepticism of authority. As humans, we are easily corrupted. Authority can easily lead to corruption and power often leads to abuse.

I listened to a radio program recently that had a panel of cops who were questioned about their own. They were in agreement that they believe about half of people in LE should not be. They have a personality not to serve, but to abuse the power given to them. This is not a knock on cops, but just as humans and our inherent flaws.

I appreciate very much the tough job LEO's have. I have several friends who do so. One of the first things I remember is they do not pass the laws they are sent out to enforce. Those that do write the laws are a whole different conversation, and I personally see an ever encroaching infringement of our civil rights from the laws that add up every day.

This nation was created from a resistant to authority, power and abuse of that power. In order to keep the freedom we have, that kind of skepticism and resistance is needed, but I believe it can be done in a peaceful way. And now just a few quotes

“Any fool can make a rule. And any fool will mind it.”
― Henry David Thoreau

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
― James Madison

“Authority allows two roles: the torturer and the tortured. Twists people into joyless mannequins that fear and hate, while culture plunges into the abyss.”
― Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

“The disappearance of a sense of responsibility is the most far-reaching consequence of submission to authority.”
― Stanley Milgram

 

[10frank9]

http://www.surenews.com/controversi...t-a-police-officer-is-shot-in-a-split-second/

This guys was clearly minding his own business and was stopped for no reason, those policemen were bullies and were infringing on his rights! Being facetious for those who doubt. :crazyeyes:

Clearly an illustration of how things can go from casual to deadly. Never underestimate any encounter.

 

[firecrew1]

I spent two and half years as a fire fighter. So I've seen what you have and done what you have. I just decided that it wasn't for me and I returned to school to do something else. Which I'll be completing in 14 months after 11years of school and work.

Just curious were you spent two years in the fire service?(department) and what was your position

 

[Voodoo Actual]

Say no more. This all makes sense now. You've been there done that. In a completely different field.

I don't understand why bakers use so much flour. I mean, I was a mechanic for years and i know they should use less flour!!

The next time someone screams at me how they know their Rights etc etc etc, I am going to respond with that.

Fire does some interesting things. I've seen them pull a body down from a sitting position on a bed, move the rifle, and unload it, so they can "safely" practice their techniques in a body. Never mind the investigation guys. We'll just assume it's not a homicide - thanks for the help.

I don't think the issue is so black and white. I am one who will always be courteous, answer reasonable questions as I would if anyone asked them. I make eye contact and say hello as I pass people. These are things I think we should do as just fellow humans on this planet. I do however think there should be a healthy skepticism of authority. As humans, we are easily corrupted. Authority can easily lead to corruption and power often leads to abuse.

I listened to a radio program recently that had a panel of cops who were questioned about their own. They were in agreement that they believe about half of people in LE should not be. They have a personality not to serve, but to abuse the power given to them. This is not a knock on cops, but just as humans and our inherent flaws.

I appreciate very much the tough job LEO's have. I have several friends who do so. One of the first things I remember is they do not pass the laws they are sent out to enforce. Those that do write the laws are a whole different conversation, and I personally see an ever encroaching infringement of our civil rights from the laws that add up every day.

This nation was created from a resistant to authority, power and abuse of that power. In order to keep the freedom we have, that kind of skepticism and resistance is needed, but I believe it can be done in a peaceful way. And now just a few quotes

Just to touch in a few points:

DUI checkpoints are black and white. You are either below or above the legal limit. That's pretty simple.

I recently had a DUI where the suspect chose to pull over in the jail parking lot. To avoid towing and impound he called his wife to pick up his vehicle. She drove into the parking area, got out, hopped in her husband's vehicle, drove about 10ft (all clearly in front of a patrol vehicle), stopped, and asked what the quickest way out was. She was also went to the gray bar motel for DUI. Then claimed it was entrapment etc.

LEO's have a lot of discretion. Your attitude when first contact is made goes a long way in determining what will transpire.

Everyone will of course be a little different. For example, I don't really even look at people who are doing 10 over. Now, If you are doing 10 over in a school zone with the cross walk lights flashing and a bus around. You're getting pulled over and I'll talk to you.

There are people who should not be cops. That is true. There's not much I can say about that other than statistically they burn out around 5 years.

 

[Voodoo Actual]

You welcome to ask me whatever the hell you want. I can't stop you from asking me questions but I can choose not to answer them and that is my right. It doesn't matter who, what, where, when and why and it's none of your business unless I decide that it is your business.

If you ever pull me over and someone else is in my car I'll shift with my eyes repeatedly in his direction so you know something is wrong. I wouldn't be like "HEY THE GUY IN THE BACK ISNT SUPPOSED TO WITH ME" as that would escalate the situation quickly. I don't for see that issue in my future though but hey ya never know.

When you flip the lights on me its not your choice where I pull over. If I put my 4 ways on so you know I see you, then I proceed to parking lot ( to many people have been killed sitting in there car on the highway) you can be all kinds of mad and I honestly do not care. Why? Because a parking lot if far safer than on the highway for both me and you. If not then why is officers want to come to the passenger side when others stop on the highway?

I spent two and half years as a fire fighter. So I've seen what you have and done what you have. I just decided that it wasn't for me and I returned to school to do something else. Which I'll be completing in 14 months after 11years of school and work.

You may need to re attend driver's education.

When you see those lights behind you, you pull over.

We dictate the stop. Not you.

If the conditions are not safe to make a stop, we will deal with that by choosing where we turn on our overheads.

There are many roads out here where it is not safe to stop someone. The solution is to wait to hit the overheads until we see a location safe for a stop.

The Statue of Limitations on a Misdemeanor is 1 year. If we need to we will follow you for 10 miles on a windy road that has a cliff on one side and a rock wall on the other until we see a safe place to make a stop.

If you don't stop, you'll get talked to on the PA and it is likely a felony stop will be made based on your actions.

 

[TheStick]

DUI checkpoints are black and white. You are either below or above the legal limit. That's pretty simple.

These are two different things. Above or below the legal limit is black and white, I agree, At least with the current laws, which have changed over time. Which might add a hint of grey to the reasoning of were that limit is set. But I digress.

As far as the constitutionality of the checkpoints, well the SCOTUS has determined they are, so that is what it is. But if you read the opinion, it also is very limited, and many times the activities that occur during these check points do cross the line of what is legal, and many times rely on the citizen not being aware of the rights they have.

My only point before was I think these two ideas are not mutually exclusive. You can be aware and educated of your rights, and be courteous at the same time. I only ask that the LEO behaves the same way.

 

[Voodoo Actual]

These are two different things. Above or below the legal limit is black and white, I agree, At least with the current laws, which have changed over time. Which might add a hint of grey to the reasoning of were that limit is set. But I digress.

As far as the constitutionality of the checkpoints, well the SCOTUS has determined they are, so that is what it is. But if you read the opinion, it also is very limited, and many times the activities that occur during these check points do cross the line of what is legal, and many times rely on the citizen not being aware of the rights they have.

My only point before was I think these two ideas are not mutually exclusive. You can be aware and educated of your rights, and be courteous at the same time. I only ask that the LEO behaves the same way.

The FST are so that we can determine if you are above or below the limit. If you fail those we move on to the PBT. The actual number is irrelevant and not admissible. The only thing we can use the PBT for is to show your BAC at the time of the maneuvers was over the legal limit. The BT you take at the jail however, is admissible. When we make contact we have to wait 20 mins before we can administer the PBT. People said it wasn't fair they they are given a breath test when they are drunk so they want a buffer and that is 20 mins. That's why DUI's take so long.

As far as crossing the line, a good LEO knows what is and is not appropriate. What is and is not needed. If I made contact based on your tail light being out, I cannot immediately ask how much you've had to drink. I need to first take care of why I made contact. Then I can address my suspicion of you being intoxicated.

If an LEO, for example, makes an illegal search, everything he found was illegally obtained/discovered. It is not admissible and will be tossed out so in reality, it is of no advantage to do anything like that as an LEO.

If you want to see great examples of bad police work, watch cops.

 

[piginajeep]

Voodoo,
You are speaking from real experience and education to back it up. There is no place for that on the Internet. Please step away from the keyboard.

 

[TheStick]

The FST are so that we can determine if you are above or below the limit. If you fail those we move on to the PBT. The actual number is irrelevant and not admissible. The only thing we can use the PBT for is to show your BAC at the time of the maneuvers was over the legal limit. The BT you take at the jail however, is admissible. When we make contact we have to wait 20 mins before we can administer the PBT. People said it wasn't fair they they are given a breath test when they are drunk so they want a buffer and that is 20 mins. That's why DUI's take so long.

As far as crossing the line, a good LEO knows what is and is not appropriate. What is and is not needed. If I made contact based on your tail light being out, I cannot immediately ask how much you've had to drink. I need to first take care of why I made contact. Then I can address my suspicion of you being intoxicated.

If an LEO, for example, makes an illegal search, everything he did/found was illegally obtained. It is not admissible and will be tossed out so in reality, it is of no advantage to do anything like that as an LEO.

If you want to see great examples of bad police work, watch cops.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. Just remember we are all humans. We all make mistakes, and we all will make more.

My last encounter with a cop was great. It was after I was rear-ended just recently, the kid couldn't have been over 25. I am not old, just 39... I asked him his name and he gave me his first. Thank God, I am not going all "sir" with a 25yro. Even older, respect is earned not just given. The kid was polite and so was I. That is all I ask. Treat me as an equal, and I will show the same respect.

 

[OverlanderJK]

DUI checkpoints are black and white. You are either below or above the legal limit. That's pretty simple.

What if you are AT the legal limit?

Mind blown....

 

[Voodoo Actual]

What if you are AT the legal limit?

Mind blown....

This is a common question.

The law states at or above.

If you don't have any warrants and you don't have a history of intoxicated driving, and you weren't driving dangerously, it would not be unreasonable for the LEO to ask you to call someone to get a ride home etc.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. Just remember we are all humans. We all make mistakes, and we all will make more.

My last encounter with a cop was great. It was after I was rear-ended just recently, the kid couldn't have been over 25. I am not old, just 39... I asked him his name and he gave me his first. Thank God, I am not going all "sir" with a 25yro. Even older, respect is earned not just given. The kid was polite and so was I. That is all I ask. Treat me as an equal, and I will show the same respect.

Agreed. That's the point. A good LEO should be objective and exercise common sense. That is also why we have discretion.

For example, can you be arrested for blowing a Stop sign? Sure can. Is arresting say, a 16 y/o for blowing a Stop sign going to have any positive effect? No. If you talk to the kid and explain this and that, more often than not, they won't even look in the wrong direction for a week.

Then of course there are people who don't learn from conversations. They learn from a warning. Then we have the ones who don't learn from warnings, they learn from monetary penalties, a ticket. Then we have the ones who don't understand financial burdens. They learn from a time out. Sometimes the tough guys need a little more motivation. This is helped by shiny pink bracelets.

 

[rubbersidedownJK]

Just started reading this and will have to go through the whole thing but so far i find it disheartening to really read the amount if posts that are not wanting to cooperate with their local law enforcement.
I agree, there are some people who wear a badge that shouldn't. but also there are many people in every career field that should not be their either.
As an Officer you never know what you encounter from person to person, the worse you are against us is what makes us make sure we are safe first.
Cooperating with your local law enforcement helps promote community policing and can only better a relationship.
People think they know the laws and what is allowed of them because of crap education on the topic, what the read on the internet and watch on youtube.
Grow up, we are here to give out lives to make sure the people who don't like us can live their happy lives.
Thank you VooDoo for giving such great responses to all of it.

 

[JokerJKU]

For example, can you be arrested for blowing a Stop sign? Sure can. Is arresting say, a 16 y/o for blowing a Stop sign going to have any positive effect? No. If you talk to the kid and explain this and that, more often than not, they won't even look in the wrong direction for a week.

Should probably be noted that you are speaking about the state in which you serve. In TX, you cannot, as a matter of law, be arrested for a traffic violation so long as you have no warrants outstanding and have a valid drivers license.

 

[TheStick]

Just started reading this and will have to go through the whole thing but so far i find it disheartening to really read the amount if posts that are not wanting to cooperate with their local law enforcement.
I agree, there are some people who wear a badge that shouldn't. but also there are many people in every career field that should not be their either.
As an Officer you never know what you encounter from person to person, the worse you are against us is what makes us make sure we are safe first.
Cooperating with your local law enforcement helps promote community policing and can only better a relationship.
People think they know the laws and what is allowed of them because of crap education on the topic, what the read on the internet and watch on youtube.
Grow up, we are here to give out lives to make sure the people who don't like us can live their happy lives.
Thank you VooDoo for giving such great responses to all of it.

I want to discuss more over a glass of wine

 

[Voodoo Actual]

Voodoo,
You are speaking from real experience and education to back it up. There is no place for that on the Internet. Please step away from the keyboard.

I knows my Rights! I have the Right to step on my iBoard at any time! I am protected by some Amendment somewhere that says something! I think I'm sure of it!

 

[Voodoo Actual]

Should probably be noted that you are speaking about the state in which you serve. In TX, you cannot, as a matter of law, be arrested for a traffic violation so long as you have no warrants outstanding and have a valid drivers license.

That was just an example that people can relate to.

However, if I were to approach 10 Citizens in civvies, and ask them if they can be arrested for blowing a stop sign, they'd say, No. If I were to approach 10 Citizens in uniform and ask them if they can be arrested for blowing a Stop sign, they'd still say, No.

TX is not my stompin' grounds so I'm not positive but I wouldn't be at all surprised considering it is illegal to blow a Stop sign - I am inclined to believe you can be arrested for running a stop sign.

That being said, I have not ever arrested someone for blowing a Stop sign or used that as leverage for compliance.

Edit:
I wanted confirmation so I did some research.

Running a Stop sign, in TX, is an Offense. Therefore you can be arrested for running a Stop sign in TX.

 

[rubbersidedownJK]

well pretty much read through everything of this year. and wow. nutz. i think i lost track of what posts i wanted to quote from shadow. the best though is when you have a PASTOR tell you that your an idiot, you should probably just stop... and your learning to pray line was just as dumb as everything else.

Now I have plenty of friends from Texas, most of which now are Officers or Firefighters why is it that the two worse people right now in the thread are from that state? From what I know of the hose draggers, who yes I highly respect, yes a cop said they respected a FF, once you fight, and I mean fight for just the chance of getting an academy seat or even a job, it is what you live for an cannot let it go. so being a FF for 2 years is what im thinking out of the academy tail end or just off probation? or just dont have the nads to cut it as a FF. anyway you cut it your an idiot.

THE BIG THANKS for the others here who have tried to explain that you are an idiot since I havent had the chance to.

 

[rubbersidedownJK]

I want to discuss more over a glass of wine

Always happy to have a glass of wine and discuss more! come on out to the GG next month!

 

[Sharkey]

...And now just a few quotes
“Any fool can make a rule. And any fool will mind it.”― Henry David Thoreau

You do realize that the Constitution and all of those pesky little amendments we call the Bill of Rights are just a bunch of rules, right?

 

[JAGS]

You do realize that the Constitution and all of those pesky little amendments we call the Bill of Rights are just a bunch of rules, right?

Did you read this on the Internet? If it's not on TMZ, it's not news.