PR60 (Hard Core package) hydro assist

[RSQCON]

Buster does this look familiar? We saw your rig in the parking lot at the Pope-Balwin estates up in Tahoe. I didn't know who's it was but I went to look at your hydro setup after I saw that sparkling tie rod setup. I actually emailed Fusion4x4 and spoke to Dan asking about your rod ends as they are different than what I have. Now that I know who owns the Jeep why did you choose the .5" forward offset ends over the standard 1.35" forward offset ends and how much more did they cost? I assume you don't have any issues with the tie rod hitting your front diff cover?

 

[Buster3479]

Thanks, definitely my rig. I had Dan order custom bent ends so that I could maximize the approach angle of the tie rod. They do not hit the diff cover on full lock, I was careful in the measurements I provided.

The further out and lower my tie rod is, the more stuff I ram it into. I've bent a Rare Parts ends before, and wanted to minimize the chance of reoccurrence.

While I'm happy with the custom bent ends, I'm not sure they'll do them anymore. I can't remember the cost. We've wheeled 12 out of the last 13 days, and the set up is holding up and working great. I kind of wish he'd stock my custom offset for the hardcore package.

 

[RSQCON]

So how much clearance do you have between the tie rod and diff cover at full lock? He can still do the .5" offset ends you have and while I understand the reason you did it I probably won't do it just due to the cost. I will be ordering a spare end and cartridge. My tie rod took a couple hits on the Rubicon and Fordyce with no issues to report. Any reason you chose to not run the rubber boots on your cartridges? I'll be doing the same ram setup as you and mounting it to the track bar axle mount.

 

[Buster3479]

I don't believe the rubber boots are intended to be installed on the tie rod. He provides the foam washer setups instead for that application.

I'll try to remember to measure it for you tomorrow when we get off the trail, but it clears with a little room to spare even with the increased angle of the Big Bore box.

I did bend an end slightly after climbing out of Soup Bowl two weeks ago. It's slight enough that I haven't stopped to re-adjust anything. I'll do that when we get it back home at this adventure's conclusion.

You'll need a spare end for each thread direction. One cartridge should suffice. I've been checking out Benito's setup while we were in Ouray, and here in Moab. His EVO high steer setup with a frame notch is pretty slick too. He definitely has better approach lines and ram protection than my setup does.

 

[RSQCON]

If you still want more clearance why not notch your frame just like the Evo, flip your drag link and ream your knuckles then buy the Rare Parts cartridges than aren't tapered and drop your tie rod in from the top? Keeping the greaseable joint would be far superior to the heim joint Evo uses?

 

[Buster3479]

That's an option. This is working well for now, so I probably won't change anything. I just liked seeing Benito's setup in person, it's very high clearance.

 

[RSQCON]

I did some measuring today and don't think the drag link/tie rod flip will work with the Fusion setup. The 2.5 ton ends are so large there is a good chance the tie rod would contact the drag ling where it bolt into the pitman arm so at some point I will be doing something similar to your setup and building a ram mount off the track bracket to keep it above the tie rod and out of harms way.

 

[MDK210]

Interesting info, reading all this stuff makes me want to turn my Jeep into a mall crawler or stock ha. Doesn’t matter how much you spend something breaks, doesn’t matter what brand you run something will break, and doesn’t matter what Jeep you have because...something will break. What’s the point ha.

 

[Mybadjk]

Perhaps I just got a bad set. My Jeep drove hands off to 80 mph prior to the axles, not so much after despite the same tires balanced on new rims. Death wobble became a regular occurrence despite months of trouble shooting, and I eventually had to weld washer the trackbar holes as they looked like angled slots. The Dynatrac folks have been good about helping troubleshoot and replace parts, but I regret the purchase immensely. I should have bought a custom XD60 set up the way I wanted it instead of going the "budget" route!

Sounds like I’m in the same boat as you.. but I went with xds and I keep getting death wobble every once in awhile.


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[Buster3479]

Sounds like I’m in the same boat as you.. but I went with xds and I keep getting death wobble every once in awhile.

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I'm sorry to hear that. My Jeep drives great again after a year of troubleshooting. No death wobble, smooth and straight at 70 mph on the highway and long distances at high speeds aired down.

We trailed our rig across country this year and almost exclusively rode in the Jeep once arriving in each location. We completed:

Rubicon Trail (+3 days Jeep driving around South Lake Tahoe)
Part of Fordyce before it closed (+1 day driving around Truckee)

Bronco Canyon (minimal local driving)

Black Bear Pass
Imogene Pass
Poughkeepsie Gulch
Engineer Pass (most of it)
Ophir Pass
(+3 days driving in and around Ouray)

Top of the World
Fins n Things
Hell's Revenge
Metal Masher
Pritchett Canyon
Cliffhanger
(+5 days driving in and around Moab)

The axles and Jeep performed admirably throughout the entire trip, and on all of the driving locally before and after. I still wish I had wider XD's for the increased clearance, lower scrub radius, and recessed ball joints.

Ultimately I believe the problem was a badly built set of wheel bearings, which corner it was I'll never know. Dynatrac was gracious enough to rebuild the fronts completely after I paid for new parts (which ultimately eliminated all occurrences of death wobble after troubleshooting all of the below first). I bought the parts and a shop press and re-built the rears myself before they shipped them back.

I did have to put weld washers in the track bar bracket as the hole opened up to a VERY large oval. This proved to be a result of repeated death wobble, not the cause of it.

Along the way I swapped out every steering linkage due to bad tie rod ends. Again, these proved to be the result of repeated death wobble, not the cause of it.

Chasing the issue I swapped out all of the control arms with no result (believing the bushings or ends had worn out).

I swapped out two steering boxes due to play in the box which yet again had no real improvement and may have been the result of repeated death wobble, but not the cause of it. In the end I love the Big Bore box with or without the ram. The steering feels better than it ever has with the Big Bore box.

I had a really out of round set of 40" Coopers that would road force "balance" (23 oz on the worst), but rode horribly even after eliminating death wobble occurrences. The Jeep lurched like a grocery store mechanical riding horse at any speed above 40 mph. Discount Tire gave me yet another instance of AWESOME customer service, and swapped them out for a set of Nitto Trail Grapplers which have been AWESOME in every way on and off road. We've met plenty of people who love their 40" Coopers, I think I just got multiple bad tires (really bad luck).

I've had to grind away at the top of the front LCA mounts to clear the Jhonny Joints when drooping.

I relocated the Ram mount onto the track bar bracket. I have no idea why they even bothered to include one that mounts the Ram below the axle line.

End result: I'm still disappointed that I don't have wider XD's with all of the design improvements. Most importantly though, I love my Jeep again! :thumb:

 

[Mybadjk]

I'm sorry to hear that. My Jeep drives great again after a year of troubleshooting. No death wobble, smooth and straight at 70 mph on the highway and long distances at high speeds aired down.

We trailed our rig across country this year and almost exclusively rode in the Jeep once arriving in each location. We completed:

Rubicon Trail (+3 days Jeep driving around South Lake Tahoe)
Part of Fordyce before it closed (+1 day driving around Truckee)

Bronco Canyon (minimal local driving)

Black Bear Pass
Imogene Pass
Poughkeepsie Gulch
Engineer Pass (most of it)
Ophir Pass
(+3 days driving in and around Ouray)

Top of the World
Fins n Things
Hell's Revenge
Metal Masher
Pritchett Canyon
Cliffhanger
(+5 days driving in and around Moab)

The axles and Jeep performed admirably throughout the entire trip, and on all of the driving locally before and after. I still wish I had wider XD's for the increased clearance, lower scrub radius, and recessed ball joints.

Ultimately I believe the problem was a badly built set of wheel bearings, which corner it was I'll never know. Dynatrac was gracious enough to rebuild the fronts completely after I paid for new parts (which ultimately eliminated all occurrences of death wobble after troubleshooting all of the below first). I bought the parts and a shop press and re-built the rears myself before they shipped them back.

I did have to put weld washers in the track bar bracket as the hole opened up to a VERY large oval. This proved to be a result of repeated death wobble, not the cause of it.

Along the way I swapped out every steering linkage due to bad tie rod ends. Again, these proved to be the result of repeated death wobble, not the cause of it.

Chasing the issue I swapped out all of the control arms with no result (believing the bushings or ends had worn out).

I swapped out two steering boxes due to play in the box which yet again had no real improvement and may have been the result of repeated death wobble, but not the cause of it. In the end I love the Big Bore box with or without the ram. The steering feels better than it ever has with the Big Bore box.

I had a really out of round set of 40" Coopers that would road force "balance" (23 oz on the worst), but rode horribly even after eliminating death wobble occurrences. The Jeep lurched like a grocery store mechanical riding horse at any speed above 40 mph. Discount Tire gave me yet another instance of AWESOME customer service, and swapped them out for a set of Nitto Trail Grapplers which have been AWESOME in every way on and off road. We've met plenty of people who love their 40" Coopers, I think I just got multiple bad tires (really bad luck).

I've had to grind away at the top of the front LCA mounts to clear the Jhonny Joints when drooping.

I relocated the Ram mount onto the track bar bracket. I have no idea why they even bothered to include one that mounts the Ram below the axle line.

End result: I'm still disappointed that I don't have wider XD's with all of the design improvements. Most importantly though, I love my Jeep again! :thumb:

I feel your pain. Lol yeah replaced my steering. I un-bolted everything and re-torqued it. I’ve thought about it being the wheel bearings. Ended up installing my hydro and seemed to relieve the bumpsteer.


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