My own JK 'Big Brake' research:

[Majik]

Well, look at THIS! -->

I just happened to find a FILM that can be applied to any surface and will visually depict pressure across a surface. Brake pads are one of their specific uses! I am ordering samples!





Pretty cool, huh??? This will allow me to test the pressure across the inner AND outer pads, and compare the fixed caliper to a floating caliper and see both the DISTRIBUTION of force, AND the INTENSITY!! How cool??!! :wings: :clap2:

 

[jeeeep]

way cool! and getting closer!! nice work, can't wait to see the results :beer:

 

[Majik]

Yeah. This film stuff should really, really help to determine which caliper setup will truly provide better braking. I will be able to see if the outer pad of a traditional floating caliper actually is evenly squeezed across the pad, or if under heavy braking it deflects. I will be able to see if a four piston caliper truly does apply force more evenly. And I will visually be able to see which one applies more force. All the info I needed without having to soak up the cost of buying two complete sets of four calipers and matching MCs just to compare them. Exciting stuff! Well, at least for car junkies like us

 

[Prime8]

Used that exact film in college, except it was there super high pressure stuff (6000 psi).

 

[Majik]

Used that exact film in college, except it was there super high pressure stuff (6000 psi).

Nice! Yeah...I did similar...just kinda forgot about it. What was your major? Mine was mech eng. Now I'm an ER doc. Go figure! :idontknow:

 

[Notajerryskid]

Nice! Yeah...I did similar...just kinda forgot about it. What was your major? Mine was mech eng. Now I'm an ER doc. Go figure! :idontknow:

Prime8 is a metal god!!!

Sorry prime8 had after all THE thread. Lol.


(I hope you know I'm just giving you a hard time.)

 

[Majik]

Prime8 is a metal god!!!

Sorry prime8 had after all THE thread. Lol.


(I hope you know I'm just giving you a hard time.)

Of course! Keep it coming! I just don't want to end up labelled a Prime8 copycat given his awesome Gecko build first! :rock:

 

[TheRoyalDoyle]

Intrigued with this thread. I am not running to big of tires @ 35's, but I will say stopping power is less. I have a call in to HAWK brakes to see if the have a DTQ pad that will fit the JKU. I would venture to guess that a more agressive pad will add the little extra braking power I need with my specific setup, and for those who dont have huge lifts and huge tires. I will also mention that these DTQ pads that I am talking about wear fast, (I run them on my race car for HUGE braking power, with a stock brake setup. I can only venture to guess it will translate to the jeep) but if you cryo both the pad and the rotor, I see double life out of both of them. Just my :twocents:.

Having said that I love treads like that and hope everything comes together for you.

 

[Majik]

I agree that a higher coefficient of friction pad should be part of this build. One of the three points I mentioned in a post a page or so back. I'll have to check that DTQ pad. Thanks for the advice!

 

[TheRoyalDoyle]

I agree that a higher coefficient of friction pad should be part of this build. One of the three points I mentioned in a post a page or so back. I'll have to check that DTQ pad. Thanks for the advice!

I will also add, that these DTC* sorry not sure where DTQ came from... DTC = Dynamic Torque Control. They are race grade pads, so they are very hard, and will go through rotors more quickly. That is why I mention the cryo. Also they have some added noise to them. I would guess that just the pads should add enogugh stopping power for 35 in tires and 3.5in lifts and lower. When racing I changed NOTHING but the pads, and saw roughly a 30% improvement in stopping distance and power. For the big guys you would for sure need larger rotors/calipers/master.

 

[Zstairlessone]

I agree that a higher coefficient of friction pad should be part of this build. One of the three points I mentioned in a post a page or so back. I'll have to check that DTQ pad. Thanks for the advice!

Don't forget, just because it has a higher uf doesn't mean it is good for street/trail use. Many high friction pads need a lot of heat and may wear a rotor quickly. The same friction coefficient with a larger normal force is still a great solution - just what you are trying to do. One of my professors was a medical doctor before he got his BSEE and his masters and PhD in engineering. Looks like you two did it backwards from each other.

 

[Majik]

Don't forget, just because it has a higher uf doesn't mean it is good for street/trail use. Many high friction pads need a lot of heat and may wear a rotor quickly. The same friction coefficient with a larger normal force is still a great solution - just what you are trying to do. One of my professors was a medical doctor before he got his BSEE and his masters and PhD in engineering. Looks like you two did it backwards from each other.

Good point! I should have added details to my statement there. It should have read something like "...a higher coefficient of friction pad designed to achieve that higher cof at the relatively low operating temps our jeeps will run their braking systems at, and with the understanding that we may trade some rotor life for that benefit, would be awesome..."

Point well taken!! :thumb:

So between me and your prof, I wonder which of us was crazier for doing all of that school....!!?? :cheesy:

 

[bluewave]

Good point! I should have added details to my statement there. It should have read something like "...a higher coefficient of friction pad designed to achieve that higher cof at the relatively low operating temps our jeeps will run their braking systems at, and with the understanding that we may trade some rotor life for that benefit, would be awesome..."

Point well taken!! :thumb:

So between me and your prof, I wonder which of us was crazier for doing all of that school....!!?? :cheesy:

Majik, you are about 99% of the reason we joined over here. when are you going to say if you concluded what the best brake booster/master cylinder worked the best? I read the whole thread and have been following everything your doing. I was waiting to pull the trigger on your brake set up/idea when it happened but ended up going with the torq super 14 axles with the gm 14.75'' rotor with ssbc brake calipers front and rear. so the above is all that will be left to complete that set up.


Steve-

 

[mrblaine]

Yeah. This film stuff should really, really help to determine which caliper setup will truly provide better braking. I will be able to see if the outer pad of a traditional floating caliper actually is evenly squeezed across the pad, or if under heavy braking it deflects. I will be able to see if a four piston caliper truly does apply force more evenly. And I will visually be able to see which one applies more force. All the info I needed without having to soak up the cost of buying two complete sets of four calipers and matching MCs just to compare them. Exciting stuff! Well, at least for car junkies like us

I think in order for that film to have full validity for what we are trying to ascertain, we would also need a gauge on the output pressure of the master so we can get and maintain an exact comparison between the two different systems.

 

[P33J_JK]

I was literally minutes away from ordering the Teraflex BBK when I found this thread, and registered here so that I can follow it. I think a brake upgrade is in order, my daughter just passed her written driving test. This could/will save many lives, no pressure.

 

[mrblaine]

I was literally minutes away from ordering the Teraflex BBK when I found this thread, and registered here so that I can follow it. I think a brake upgrade is in order, my daughter just passed her written driving test. This could/will save many lives, no pressure.

There are a few kits out there that simply move the stock caliper out further with a new saddle and adapter bracket. In the testing we've done on the same vehicle with no other changes, the relocation of the stock caliper and 1" larger rotor proved more effective in all regards than the kit you referenced.

 

[Majik]

There are a few kits out there that simply move the stock caliper out further with a new saddle and adapter bracket. In the testing we've done on the same vehicle with no other changes, the relocation of the stock caliper and 1" larger rotor proved more effective in all regards than the kit you referenced.

With prior vehicles that I've upgraded brake systems on, I've noticed the same. The bigger the rotor, the more obvious the braking improvement. Even if keeping every other component the same. Thus why I'm really pushing with trying to make this 14" (actually like 14.2") rotor work. I'm kinda at a tough point right now though, debating the caliper. In theory, that nice shiny red 4-piston caliper I'm experimenting with has less piston surface area equivalent than any of several more common 2 piston floating calipers I could choose from, but it MIGHT make up for alot of that piston area loss because of its more rigid design and better distribution of "squeeze". It also should, in theory, have the benefit of better heat dissipation. Like I mentioned earlier, it's just hard to come to an answer of which is a stronger brake without springing cash for 4 4-piston calipers and matching rotors, and ANOTHER set of 4 2-piston calipers and matching rotors and then doing back to back comparisons.

I was hoping maybe the pressure film might help me avoid that big expense and give me good, hard data that wasn't just a "oh, system A feels stronger than system B".

One of the things that keeps me pursuing these 4-piston calipers, though, is that because of the effective piston surface area being smaller than other possible caliper choices, it should enable the use of either the stock or an only slightly larger bore 1 1/16" master cylinder. (Honestly, stock is likely to work great with these.)

I know there are systems out there that can be purchased right off the shelf that offer jeepers better brakes, and I'm appreciative of those vendors' solutions! I guess I'm just having fun trying to be the regular joe seeing if he can build a WOW brake system on his own, and using off the shelf stuff!! :yup:

 

[Majik]

I was literally minutes away from ordering the Teraflex BBK when I found this thread, and registered here so that I can follow it. I think a brake upgrade is in order, my daughter just passed her written driving test. This could/will save many lives, no pressure.

LOL!!! Sure...NO pressure there!! :rolleyes2:

 

[Majik]

I think in order for that film to have full validity for what we are trying to ascertain, we would also need a gauge on the output pressure of the master so we can get and maintain an exact comparison between the two different systems.

True. To accurately use that film, I have to rig up some kind of system for applying the same pedal pressure (and thus master cylinder output pressure), or the same pedal travel distance (the latter may be the easier to construct) and then seeing the film results.

 

[mrblaine]

True. To accurately use that film, I have to rig up some kind of system for applying the same pedal pressure (and thus master cylinder output pressure), or the same pedal travel distance (the latter may be the easier to construct) and then seeing the film results.

You are over complicating it. This is as simple as plumbing in a line pressure gauge and then applying pedal pressure until you reach the same pressure on the gauge for both calipers. If you want further data such as how far the pedal travels at what pressure, that can be done as well, but the test to see which caliper exerts the most clamping force in what areas across the pad shape is relatively easy.