Pro Rock 44 with 40's.....

Vettethret · Jul 7, 2014

Now that my SRT is gone Iam working on a set up for my new Rubicon. I have always gone with 38's for the sake of the Diffs. I will never do the fast desert stuff. I like the moderate trails (Last Chance Canyon. Cleghorn etc). I do want to start doing some more challenging stuff but will never do a trail where I will get body damage (Im a Mall Crawler at heart apparently).

My question is this- Going easy on the skinny pedal and not wheeling like an ecsaped con, will a prorock 44 be sufficient for the most part on 40's? I emailed Nitto to find out the weight difference between 38x15.5x20s and 40x15.x20s and am stillwaitingto hear back. I know I dont need 40's, but daddy like 40's!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OverlanderJK · Jul 7, 2014

If you are going 40's and coilovers why skimp on axles? It's not recommended by dynatrac and they make the axles so no I wouldn't do it.

Vettethret · Jul 7, 2014

OverlanderJK said:
If you are going 40's and coilovers why skimp on axles? It's not recommended by dynatrac and they make the axles so no I wouldn't do it.

Because I wont have the money in phase one of the build (It will be almost 20k), so the axles would have to wait. I didnt know Dynatrac didnt recommend 40's on the 44? Ive never been able to figure out how an extra 2" of tire and an extra 20-30lbs could make such a difference (Needing to go from a 44 to a 60).

OverlanderJK · Jul 7, 2014

Vettethret said:
Because I wont have the money in phase one of the build (It will be almost 20k), so the axles would have to wait. I didnt know Dynatrac didnt recommend 40's on the 44? Ive never been able to figure out how an extra 2" of tire and an extra 20-30lbs could make such a difference (Needing to go from a 44 to a 60).

How long before you could afford the 60's? You could always run 37's until you can upgrade and then sell the 37's when you get the new axles. Or just stick to 37's and a PR44 for good. There aren't that many trails that you would need 40's for and the ones that you would are nowhere close to moderate trails. The closet ones would be some of the hammer trails.

Vettethret · Jul 7, 2014

OverlanderJK said:
How long before you could afford the 60's? You could always run 37's until you can upgrade and then sell the 37's when you get the new axles. Or just stick to 37's and a PR44 for good. There aren't that many trails that you would need 40's for and the ones that you would are nowhere close to moderate trails. The closet ones would be some of the hammer trails.

I'll probably stick with my 38's then. I just cant justify spending 16-20k on Axles when I'll probably never use them anywhere near their potential. Once again, it appears my little mans complex has overloaded my wallet!

JK_Dave · Jul 7, 2014

Have you looked at the Trail 60? Thicker axle tubes and larger pumpkin (9 3/4" ring gear) are both standard. Might be a better compromise for you?

http://dynatrac.com/products/jk/trail-series60.html

The ProRock 44/60 Hybrid is nice too, but doesn't come in 5x5 bolt pattern so you'd have to change your wheels.

http://dynatrac.com/products/jk/ProRock4460Hybrid.html

And I don't think the extra 2" or 20lbs is what makes the difference. It's the leverage gained by the bigger diameter of your wheels that can put extra stress on the axle. Maybe post up your question in Dynatrac's vendor forum here and I'm sure they could tell you better.

OverlanderJK · Jul 7, 2014

JK_Dave said:
Have you looked at the Trail 60? Thicker axle tubes and larger pumpkin (9 3/4" ring gear) are both standard. Might be a better compromise for you?

http://dynatrac.com/products/jk/trail-series60.html

The ProRock 44/60 Hybrid is nice too, but doesn't come in 5x5 bolt pattern so you'd have to change your wheels.

http://dynatrac.com/products/jk/ProRock4460Hybrid.html

And I don't think the extra 2" or 20lbs is what makes the difference. It's the leverage gained by the bigger diameter of your wheels that can put extra stress on the axle. Maybe post up your question in Dynatrac's vendor forum here and I'm sure they could tell you better.

Trail 60 is a rear axle and PR44 is a front axle.

OverlanderJK · Jul 7, 2014

Vettethret said:
I'll probably stick with my 38's then. I just cant justify spending 16-20k on Axles when I'll probably never use them anywhere near their potential. Once again, it appears my little mans complex has overloaded my wallet!

Something to think about is how many people do you wheel with that have 38's? If you get a flat and need to bum a tire chances are slim that you won't be able to get one since not many people run 38's. In fact in the two years I've been wheeling with this group I think you are the only one I have wheeled with that had 38's. Just my two cents.

Vettethret · Jul 7, 2014

OverlanderJK said:
Something to think about is how many people do you wheel with that have 38's? If you get a flat and need to bum a tire chances are slim that you won't be able to get one since not many people run 38's. In fact in the two years I've been wheeling with this group I think you are the only one I have wheeled with that had 38's. Just my two cents.

Ive always been the one upper. You have bike? I rode in and won the Tour De France (Twice)!! You say you rent? I own (A loft actually)

http://youtu.be/MjK-dl0cWlI

The 37's just arent quite big enough so I do 38s:brows: Out of the gate this time I will be running an aftermarket rear bumper and spare which I never ran on my other rigs. Doing the under armor as well out of the gate so I can hit the trails.

wayoflife · Jul 8, 2014

As Adam mentioned, a Trail 60 is only available as a rear axle. Also, a 38 is a really weird size and I personally wouldn't recommend it either. There's a real benefit with sticking with common sizes like 35", 37" or 40". If you need a spare in a pinch, it'll most likely be available.

Having said that, I personally would NOT run a 40 on a ProRock 44. As great as the housing is, you will still have a much smaller ring and pinion and you shafts will still be weaker than a 60. The whole point of getting a ProRock 60 is that you get a MUCH BIGGER ring and pinion and run much beefier shafts with much higher spline counts.

Vettethret · Jul 8, 2014

wayoflife said:
As Adam mentioned, a Trail 60 is only available as a rear axle. Also, a 38 is a really weird size and I personally wouldn't recommend it either. There's a real benefit with sticking with common sizes like 35", 37" or 40". If you need a spare in a pinch, it'll most likely be available.

Having said that, I personally would NOT run a 40 on a ProRock 44. As great as the housing is, you will still have a much smaller ring and pinion and you shafts will still be weaker than a 60. The whole point of getting a ProRock 60 is that you get a MUCH BIGGER ring and pinion and run much beefier shafts with much higher spline counts.

Do those run 8-10k? I assume I could probbaly get $2500 for a factory Rubicon 44. I also assume both axles need o be done at the same time?

Ill take the advice above and start with the 38's and save for the Axles.:thumb:

wayoflife · Jul 8, 2014

Vettethret said:
Do those run 8-10k? I assume I could probbaly get $2500 for a factory Rubicon 44. I also assume both axles need o be done at the same time?

Ill take the advice above and start with the 38's and save for the Axles.:thumb:

Depending on how you build it up, a ProRock 60 can weigh in closer to $12K. Assuming your factory 44 is in good shape, yes, you can probably get about $2500 for it. You don't need to do both axles at the same time but, if you don't, you will have issues with your wheels as a ProRock 60 will have a different bolt pattern and will also be wider. You can run wheel adapters to help make up the difference temporarily though.

Vettethret · Jul 8, 2014

wayoflife said:
Depending on how you build it up, a ProRock 60 can weigh in closer to $12K. Assuming your factory 44 is in good shape, yes, you can probably get about $2500 for it. You don't need to do both axles at the same time but, if you don't, you will have issues with your wheels as a ProRock 60 will have a different bolt pattern and will also be wider. You can run wheel adapters to help make up the difference temporarily though.

WOW! 12k = LOTS OF BUTTHURT! Looks like I either need to stick to the kiddie trails or work some overtime! At least I know I'll be keeping the Rubicon for a long while this time around. Either way, cant wait to hi tthe trails again.

BTW- LOVE your face book pics. I grew up in El Dorado Hills and havnt been back to Tahoe since I was a kid. I would love to go back in the Jeep and hit some of those trails:rock:

Heholua · Jul 8, 2014

wayoflife said:
As Adam mentioned, a Trail 60 is only available as a rear axle. Also, a 38 is a really weird size and I personally wouldn't recommend it either. There's a real benefit with sticking with common sizes like 35", 37" or 40". If you need a spare in a pinch, it'll most likely be available.

Having said that, I personally would NOT run a 40 on a ProRock 44. As great as the housing is, you will still have a much smaller ring and pinion and you shafts will still be weaker than a 60. The whole point of getting a ProRock 60 is that you get a MUCH BIGGER ring and pinion and run much beefier shafts with much higher spline counts.

Eddie.....what about stopping power? How much bigger are the rotors and pads on 60s as compared to 44s? I have a hard enough time with 37s right now, I can't imagine what braking would be like with 40s.

SmokinV10 · Jul 8, 2014

Vettethret said:
WOW! 12k = LOTS OF BUTTHURT! Looks like I either need to stick to the kiddie trails or work some overtime! At least I know I'll be keeping the Rubicon for a long while this time around. Either way, cant wait to hi tthe trails again.

I don't know if my response will help in your decision, but from what I've read (in other posts) you've considered the DTD suspension and now you're looking at axles. I was in the same boat a few weeks ago and ended up just "sucking it up" and doing it right the first time. Sounds like you ultimately want 40's, and if your experience with the GC SRT8 says anything is to get what you ultimately want bc doing it twice is definitely more expensive....

JK1 · Jul 8, 2014

i know this is against the laws of physics but i have seen guys wheel on D30s with 40s you just have to be smart and know your limits :idontknow: i wouldnt do it but hey a D30 isnt worth much anyway so why not run them till they blow..:thumb: and if your gonna mall crawl with it nmost of the time you would be suprised on how long they last.... your going to have bigger issues than the axle anyway like not being able to turn around in a court without doing a three point turn unless your running slabs or something else with alot of back spacing.

wayoflife · Jul 8, 2014

JK1 said:
i know this is against the laws of physics but i have seen guys wheel on D30s with 40s you just have to be smart and know your limits :idontknow:

Again, everyone has their own idea of what wheeling is. Also, time and use has a way of trumping smarts or knowing your limits. :idontknow:

i wouldnt do it but hey a D30 isnt worth much anyway so why not run them till they blow..:thumb:

Hard to argue with the idea of running what you have until it breaks or until you can afford to upgrade. I am all for that but, it really does suck when you have "that guy" in your group break on a really tough trail with 20 miles to go to the nearest pavement and 100 miles from the closet real city. If all you run are off road parks, I can see how one would not consider this a big deal.

and if your gonna mall crawl with it nmost of the time you would be suprised on how long they last.... your going to have bigger issues than the axle anyway like not being able to turn around in a court without doing a three point turn unless your running slabs or something else with alot of back spacing.

While I would agree that it can be very difficult to steer a Jeep in a parking lot running 37's without a ram assist, I would have to disagree that axles still wouldn't be a big issue. The stress of trying to turn your Jeep in these situations will cause your yokes to wallow out and can result in the c-clips from getting pried out. Of course, once they are out, you can lose your bearing caps and that will lead to axle failure.

wayoflife · Jul 8, 2014

Heholua said:
Eddie.....what about stopping power? How much bigger are the rotors and pads on 60s as compared to 44s? I have a hard enough time with 37s right now, I can't imagine what braking would be like with 40s.

Up front, the rotors and calipers are significantly bigger on a ProRock 60.

MTG · Jul 8, 2014

Vettethret said:
I'll probably stick with my 38's then. I just cant justify spending 16-20k on Axles when I'll probably never use them anywhere near their potential. Once again, it appears my little mans complex has overloaded my wallet!

Reading your posts it sounds like you'll probably never use the 38s to their full potential either and simply like the look of bigger tires. I'd just run your Dana 44 and the 38s until it breaks or you sell the jeep,whichever comes first. :thumb:

SmokinV10 · Jul 8, 2014

JK1 said:
....i wouldnt do it but hey a D30 isnt worth much anyway so why not run them till they blow..:thumb: and if your gonna mall crawl with it nmost of the time you would be suprised on how long they last....

The op said somewhere that he wanted a full DTD suspension (maybe I'm wrong?!?). Spending all the cash on installing the DTD brackets and levers only to toss half of it when you do an axle swap and replace the discarded pieces seems like a huge waste. I am admittedly far from an expert compared to many here, but I have recently done the math myself and made the choice to avoid "incrementalism" because this isnt the type of system where you simply bolt parts on and then rebolt them to another set of axles. It SOUNDS like he has SOME intention of using his rig. It also SOUNDS like he just traded in a near $80K WK2 SRT8 because he didnt get what he wanted. Maybe the idea of cost avoidance and truly understanding the balance between wants, needs, and cost need to get weighed more judiciously before arbitrarily embarking on this next step. That's just my .02 but what do i know?

Pro Rock 44 with 40's.....

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