PDA

View Full Version : Electrical draw, batteries keep dying



NightKrawler
01-30-2016, 11:15 PM
Hello fellow jeepers. I was hoping I would get lucky and one of you guys knows a thing or two about the electrical systems in the JK. I had this dual battery system installed about a year ago and its had some type of draw on it since day one. I've had the shop that did the work go over it repeatedly and they're telling me that there's nothing wrong with the aftermarket parts used in this install and that there is a stock JK part that's causing the battery drain. I don't know if these systems can be wired up differently but the battery furthest away from the cab operates the accessories (winch, air compressor, lockers etc) and the battery closest to the cab operates the vehicle's stock accessories. For some reason only the accessory battery for the aftermarket parts was being drained at a rapid rate lasting only a week or two before it's completely dead and the battery for the vehicle has never had a problem. Recently the mechanic that has been working on the vehicle, in an effort to rectify the problem, rewired it somehow so both batteries are linked together and now they're both dying at roughly the same rate. I had taken it to the dealership, explained this scenario, and they had identified that there is no stock part that could cause a draw especially one of that magnitude. The dealership did confirm that the alternator is well within its operating range. Once again I know nothing about electrical issues and I'm hoping for feedback from someone more experienced than myself. I'd appreciate any related information, thank you

wayoflife
01-31-2016, 12:38 AM
Get yourself a test light, disconnect your negative battery lead and connect the light to the lead and the negative battery terminal to complete the circuit. Being that you have a parasitic draw, the test light should light up. Open up your fuse box and one by one, remove a fuse and check to see if the light goes out. If it doesn't, put it back in and go to the next fuse. If you get to one that causes the light to go out, that'll be the component that has the draw and where you can start looking for the problem. If they all check out, you'll need to do the same thing with your aftermarket components.

NightKrawler
01-31-2016, 12:57 AM
Get yourself a test light, disconnect your negative battery lead and connect the light to the lead and the negative battery terminal to complete the circuit. Being that you have a parasitic draw, the test light should light up. Open up your fuse box and one by one, remove a fuse and check to see if the light goes out. If it doesn't, put it back in and go to the next fuse. If you get to one that causes the light to go out, that'll be the component that has the draw and where you can start looking for the problem. If they all check out, you'll need to do the same thing with your aftermarket components.

Thank you, I appreciate the info. I'll let you know what it is when I find it

toxicwaste29
01-31-2016, 04:52 AM
Totally agreed what Eddie said. You can do the same with a multimeter but in has to be able to read amps. A test light is a cheaper option

WJCO
01-31-2016, 04:55 AM
Get yourself a test light, disconnect your negative battery lead and connect the light to the lead and the negative battery terminal to complete the circuit. Being that you have a parasitic draw, the test light should light up. Open up your fuse box and one by one, remove a fuse and check to see if the light goes out. If it doesn't, put it back in and go to the next fuse. If you get to one that causes the light to go out, that'll be the component that has the draw and where you can start looking for the problem. If they all check out, you'll need to do the same thing with your aftermarket components.


Totally agreed what Eddie said. You can do the same with a multimeter but in has to be able to read amps. A test light is a cheaper option

Word.

This simple test is a great way to isolate which circuit the draw lies within.

joedelalinea
01-31-2016, 05:06 PM
Let us know if you did the test. A buddy of mine had the same issue a couple of days ago

NightKrawler
01-31-2016, 10:33 PM
Let us know if you did the test. A buddy of mine had the same issue a couple of days ago

Will do. I got my tester last night but it's been raining all day so I haven't gotten the chance to pop the hood yet.

Eugene the Jeep
02-01-2016, 12:47 AM
Did you install any new accessories when you installed the dual battery kit that might be causing the problem?

NightKrawler
02-01-2016, 01:06 AM
Did you install any new accessories when you installed the dual battery kit that might be causing the problem?

No. All accessories were installed simultaneously 3 years ago at ORE and everything has worked perfectly until the battery install at a different shop. Although at one point they tried to say it was the ARB compressor causing the battery drain. now you got me thinking about the accessories. Shortly after this battery setup was installed my cobra CB would cycle on and off randomly even though the dial was in the off position. Once again I don't know much about the electrical system in the JK. I pulled the power supply from the back of the CB to see if that could have been part of the problem but the battery still has a drain. At one point the mechanic had accidentally yanked the ground for my pillar lights out of the spod so it fried the cable the next time I turn them on and they had to replace it. I can't help but wondering if this short as a result of carelessness. I'm not trying to point fingers thats why I haven't said the name of the shop. First thing tomorrow I'll do the test that Eddie suggested. I'll keep this thread updated as I get new info and once again I appreciate everybody's contribution. I've been dealing with this for 18 months now, every time I'm told the problem is fixed and Here I am charging my battery at least once a week

NightKrawler
02-03-2016, 12:41 AM
Get yourself a test light, disconnect your negative battery lead and connect the light to the lead and the negative battery terminal to complete the circuit. Being that you have a parasitic draw, the test light should light up. Open up your fuse box and one by one, remove a fuse and check to see if the light goes out. If it doesn't, put it back in and go to the next fuse. If you get to one that causes the light to go out, that'll be the component that has the draw and where you can start looking for the problem. If they all check out, you'll need to do the same thing with your aftermarket components.

So I tried the test and it looks like I might need a little more advice. I pulled every fuse from the fuse box including the relays one at a time and the light stayed on. I should also mention that I got 2 test cables, one for the battery closest to the cab and one for the battery furthest away. When I hooked them up before I started the test only the battery closest to the cab had lit up. I also pulled every fuse in the S pod one at a time assuming that covered every accessory. The only accessory not going through the S pod is the winch and I disconnected the power to that is well and the light didn't go out. I just noticed this break in the wire housing going to the positive terminal on the battery closest to the cab that has the light on and when I remove that positively from the battery terminal the light goes out. Any other advice would be appreciated.

toxicwaste29
02-03-2016, 02:09 AM
Just curious. Did you undo one of the cables and use your light as a jumper between the cable and the battery post itself? The picture you posted the cable is still attached to the battery

NightKrawler
02-03-2016, 02:19 AM
Just curious. Did you undo one of the cables and use your light as a jumper between the cable and the battery post itself? The picture you posted the cable is still attached to the battery

That picture was just a close up of the broken wire housing going to the positive terminal. Yes I had a light tester completing the circuit to the negative terminal on each battery simultaneously when I did the test. when i initially hooked up the the test lights to both batteries before I started pulling fuses only the battery closest to the cab was illuminated and pulling the fuses for the stock accessories as well as the S pod fuses didn't make it go out

NightKrawler
02-03-2016, 02:22 AM
I don't know if this helps with the diagnosis but the battery closest to the cab is draining at a faster rate then the other battery

toxicwaste29
02-04-2016, 02:23 PM
Try pulling fuses for more than the stock accessories. It could be a drain somewhere in the main circuit

12-mile
02-04-2016, 02:29 PM
Chasing electrical gremlins is definitely not my strong suit, i'll be following this for educational purposes,
Hope you track it down

NightKrawler
02-04-2016, 09:47 PM
Try pulling fuses for more than the stock accessories. It could be a drain somewhere in the main circuit

Main circuit? I've pulled every fuse from the fuse box under the hood and from the S pod so I don't know what else I could check. I got a multimeter yesterday so I can attach that to the negative terminal and negative battery to see exactly how much power is being drawn. If I can't find it I have an appointment next week to take it to a specialist. Once again I appreciate everybody's help and I'll post what I find

NightKrawler
02-04-2016, 09:48 PM
Chasing electrical gremlins is definitely not my strong suit, i'll be following this for educational purposes,
Hope you track it down

This is a first for me as well. It's definitely been educational

Speedy_RCW
02-04-2016, 10:06 PM
Main circuit? I've pulled every fuse from the fuse box under the hood and from the S pod so I don't know what else I could check. I got a multimeter yesterday so I can attach that to the negative terminal and negative battery to see exactly how much power is being drawn. If I can't find it I have an appointment next week to take it to a specialist. Once again I appreciate everybody's help and I'll post what I find

Did the light intensity ever change when you were pulling fuses? I've never done this on a Jk but it's possible the light could be on simply from the current draw on factory computers and whatnot. Probably would be very dim though. Maybe someone that's done it on the JK can chime in on that. In that case the light would simply get dimmer when you pulled the fuse of the culprit circuit. And you do have the doors closed when you're doing this correct? i.e. no dome lights or anything on?

Edit. Just read where you removed the cable that has a cut in the insulation and the light went out. Did you only remove that cable or the whole bundle. Doesn't look like a factory cable, do you know where it goes?

Cadima
02-05-2016, 06:09 PM
I have a similar issue with my 13 JKU. I don't have any dual battery set up and haven't yet tried to track down the culprit, BUT....I have noticed that inside the jeep behind the dash console somewhere something is activating intermittently. More specifically, every 4 minutes 12 seconds what sounds like some kind of motorized flap like anA/C vent damper is cycling. This is with the Jeep sitting in the garage with no key in it and not having been turned on for days. Absolutely have no idea what is being cycled on and off or why, but its occurring exactly every 4 minutes 12 seconds and if I leave the Jeep for a week or so the battery will be drained. So as weird as it may sound, sit in your jeep in silence for at least 5 minutes and see if you hear anything.

toxicwaste29
02-05-2016, 09:51 PM
Main circuit? I've pulled every fuse from the fuse box under the hood and from the S pod so I don't know what else I could check. I got a multimeter yesterday so I can attach that to the negative terminal and negative battery to see exactly how much power is being drawn. If I can't find it I have an appointment next week to take it to a specialist. Once again I appreciate everybody's help and I'll post what I find

Sorry by the main circuit I mean all the drive train fuses. I thought I read you only pulled the jeep accessory fuses and the s pod fuses. It could be something draining the power from a factory fuse you never pulled

JeepJeep75
02-05-2016, 10:01 PM
I have a similar issue with my 13 JKU. I don't have any dual battery set up and haven't yet tried to track down the culprit, BUT....I have noticed that inside the jeep behind the dash console somewhere something is activating intermittently. More specifically, every 4 minutes 12 seconds what sounds like some kind of motorized flap like anA/C vent damper is cycling. This is with the Jeep sitting in the garage with no key in it and not having been turned on for days. Absolutely have no idea what is being cycled on and off or why, but its occurring exactly every 4 minutes 12 seconds and if I leave the Jeep for a week or so the battery will be drained. So as weird as it may sound, sit in your jeep in silence for at least 5 minutes and see if you hear anything.

I have heard this door closing sound behind the dash in my '15 JKUR as well. I think it's just a delayed thing that occurs after your turn the key off. Have you heard it do it more than once in say, 10 minutes?

NightKrawler
02-06-2016, 08:38 PM
I have a similar issue with my 13 JKU. I don't have any dual battery set up and haven't yet tried to track down the culprit, BUT....I have noticed that inside the jeep behind the dash console somewhere something is activating intermittently. More specifically, every 4 minutes 12 seconds what sounds like some kind of motorized flap like anA/C vent damper is cycling. This is with the Jeep sitting in the garage with no key in it and not having been turned on for days. Absolutely have no idea what is being cycled on and off or why, but its occurring exactly every 4 minutes 12 seconds and if I leave the Jeep for a week or so the battery will be drained. So as weird as it may sound, sit in your jeep in silence for at least 5 minutes and see if you hear anything.

I remember hearing that same noise in my Jeep when I first got it but I haven't heard it in a while. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention so I'm going getting the cab and see if I hear it.

moto450r
02-06-2016, 08:49 PM
Could be bad diodes in your alternator. Disconnect your alternator and then check your test light to negative battery post again.

NightKrawler
02-06-2016, 10:18 PM
Could be bad diodes in your alternator. Disconnect your alternator and then check your test light to negative battery post again.

I went to the dealership the other day to get an oil change and I had them check my alternator and it was in excellent condition well within factory specifications

moto450r
02-06-2016, 11:09 PM
I went to the dealership the other day to get an oil change and I had them check my alternator and it was in excellent condition well within factory specifications

An alternator can still work (correct output) with a leaky diode. If it were me, I would just eliminate the alternator as the source of the drain since the drain is being elusive. I know the dealership checked the output but.....

An excerpt from the link below ""A leaky diode also can allow current to drain out of the battery through the alternator when the vehicle is not being driven"
Starters and Alternators: Common Misdiagnosis (http://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-articles/starters-and-alternators-common-misdiagnosis/)

Below is a video that might help you narrow down your parasitic drain


https://youtu.be/P-wxG6U5TuY

Good luck!

NightKrawler
02-07-2016, 01:10 AM
An alternator can still work (correct output) with a leaky diode. If it were me, I would just eliminate the alternator as the source of the drain since the drain is being elusive. I know the dealership checked the output but.....

An excerpt from the link below ""A leaky diode also can allow current to drain out of the battery through the alternator when the vehicle is not being driven"
Starters and Alternators: Common Misdiagnosis (http://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-articles/starters-and-alternators-common-misdiagnosis/)

Below is a video that might help you narrow down your parasitic drain

Video Link: https://youtu.be/P-wxG6U5TuY (https://youtu.be/P-wxG6U5TuY)

Good luck!

Thank you, that is very good information. Everybody with electrical issues should check this out. I thought I had covered just about everything but it looks like I have a project for tomorrow afternoon.

NightKrawler
02-07-2016, 01:53 AM
I have a similar issue with my 13 JKU. I don't have any dual battery set up and haven't yet tried to track down the culprit, BUT....I have noticed that inside the jeep behind the dash console somewhere something is activating intermittently. More specifically, every 4 minutes 12 seconds what sounds like some kind of motorized flap like anA/C vent damper is cycling. This is with the Jeep sitting in the garage with no key in it and not having been turned on for days. Absolutely have no idea what is being cycled on and off or why, but its occurring exactly every 4 minutes 12 seconds and if I leave the Jeep for a week or so the battery will be drained. So as weird as it may sound, sit in your jeep in silence for at least 5 minutes and see if you hear anything.

I just did the same test and I heard it cycle 4 minutes after turn the vehicle off but I didn't hear it again and I waited 10 more minutes. I open the door and closed it, with the key in my lap, then its cycle again in 4 minutes but it did not repeat

Cadima
02-09-2016, 02:42 PM
I am glad to hear others have this noise, but in my jeep it continues..... beyond my patience to sit there and see for how long. Cant recall how many times I heard in one sitting before but I'd bet I let it repeat at least 5 times before deciding there were gremlins inside. It certainly cycles more the one and done.

Eugene the Jeep
02-09-2016, 04:16 PM
I found this video on YouTube. It shows a damper behind the glove box cycling. https://youtu.be/28Gboq_hoCI

swampdog
02-09-2016, 04:25 PM
Mine does the same thing as well, but never had any issues. I was told that it is a recirculation vent opening to prevent interior air from being stagnant / mildewy.

Jeepnoub
02-09-2016, 04:30 PM
I have a similar issue with my 13 JKU. I don't have any dual battery set up and haven't yet tried to track down the culprit, BUT....I have noticed that inside the jeep behind the dash console somewhere something is activating intermittently. More specifically, every 4 minutes 12 seconds what sounds like some kind of motorized flap like anA/C vent damper is cycling. This is with the Jeep sitting in the garage with no key in it and not having been turned on for days. Absolutely have no idea what is being cycled on and off or why, but its occurring exactly every 4 minutes 12 seconds and if I leave the Jeep for a week or so the battery will be drained. So as weird as it may sound, sit in your jeep in silence for at least 5 minutes and see if you hear anything.

I noticed that same thing by accident. I was waiting in the jeep and looking at my phone and I kept hearing that noise. I was thinking about calling the dealer or jeep about it.

Cadima
02-09-2016, 04:37 PM
I noticed that same thing by accident. I was waiting in the jeep and looking at my phone and I kept hearing that noise. I was thinking about calling the dealer or jeep about it.

Is it repeating or just once and it stops?

Jeepnoub
02-09-2016, 04:49 PM
Repeating. I was in there for Atleast 15 mins and heard it 3 or 4 times. Sounds like it comes from behind the glove box

Cadima
02-09-2016, 04:51 PM
Repeating. I was in there for Atleast 15 mins and heard it 3 or 4 times. Sounds like it comes from behind the glove box

Very strange that some repeat and others don't. :thinking:

So my next question is, has it ever sat for over a week and have you had any battery draining issues?

Jeepnoub
02-09-2016, 04:54 PM
No its never sat for that long. At most 3 or 4 days. But it's a brand new jeep. So the amp draw might affect older batteries differently.

jims68
02-09-2016, 08:30 PM
After 15 minutes or so everything should go to sleep if not disturbed. If you leave the key in, the CanBus will stay awake thinking you are ready to turn the key. You should only see around 80 milliamperes draw stock system when everything goes asleep.
Best way to test this is with a milliamp clamp meter that goes down under 100 milliamps. You need to find the wire with all of this draw on it and this will be the quickest way. I have traced draws with a multi meter using the current meter but first the draw can't be too large. If it is you can burn up your meter and your leads! Second you need to connect your leads up to each side of connection you are testing then carefully lift one side to put the meter into the circuit. Very time consuming!
Chrysler computers and the CanBus and particularly the TIPM can be very sensitive to changes and stock by themselves can have very weird issues. One being not shutting down at all!
My suggestion is find a good clamp meter to borrow, they start at $200 plus on up, and start the motor for 30 seconds to stabilize everything then wait or watch with the clamp meter over all feeds and wait for the CanBus to shut down after 15 to 30 minutes. Then pick a feed and see what the overall draw does. Do this till you find the culprit feed then work your way in from that point and disconnect feeds from there till you find the draw.
This is time consuming but at least yours is not intermittent!!

moto450r
02-11-2016, 04:31 PM
..... looks like I have a project for tomorrow afternoon.

Were you able to find the problem?

NightKrawler
02-11-2016, 08:20 PM
After 15 minutes or so everything should go to sleep if not disturbed. If you leave the key in, the CanBus will stay awake thinking you are ready to turn the key. You should only see around 80 milliamperes draw stock system when everything goes asleep.
Best way to test this is with a milliamp clamp meter that goes down under 100 milliamps. You need to find the wire with all of this draw on it and this will be the quickest way. I have traced draws with a multi meter using the current meter but first the draw can't be too large. If it is you can burn up your meter and your leads! Second you need to connect your leads up to each side of connection you are testing then carefully lift one side to put the meter into the circuit. Very time consuming!
Chrysler computers and the CanBus and particularly the TIPM can be very sensitive to changes and stock by themselves can have very weird issues. One being not shutting down at all!
My suggestion is find a good clamp meter to borrow, they start at $200 plus on up, and start the motor for 30 seconds to stabilize everything then wait or watch with the clamp meter over all feeds and wait for the CanBus to shut down after 15 to 30 minutes. Then pick a feed and see what the overall draw does. Do this till you find the culprit feed then work your way in from that point and disconnect feeds from there till you find the draw.
This is time consuming but at least yours is not intermittent!!

I can't seem to find anybody with a clamp meter. Apparently that's an uncommon tool amongst my friends

NightKrawler
02-11-2016, 08:26 PM
Were you able to find the problem?

I've run every test I know of in so far here is what I have discovered. I did a passive test on the fuses in the s pod. None of the main fuses have any draw but the two amp fuse has a 50 milliamp draw on it. I'm still trying to figure out what that is. And I believe if I'm reading the meter correct there is a 670 milliamp draw between the negative cable lead and the negative battery post. I just can't figure out specifically where its coming from and why

moto450r
02-16-2016, 03:03 PM
I've run every test I know of in so far here is what I have discovered. I did a passive test on the fuses in the s pod. None of the main fuses have any draw but the two amp fuse has a 50 milliamp draw on it. I'm still trying to figure out what that is. And I believe if I'm reading the meter correct there is a 670 milliamp draw between the negative cable lead and the negative battery post. I just can't figure out specifically where its coming from and why

Which ground cable were you checking? Just the original vehicle ground? Were all the other ground cables isolated from that one cable? Your original picture shows A LOT of add-on wiring that you should isolate for trouble shooting, meaning is the problem on the vehicle side or your add-on side (i.e. Dual batt isolator, S-pod, etc. etc.).

Below is an excerpt from the 2011 Service Manual (some rehashed info but good none the less).

CHECK FOR EXCESSIVE CURRENT DRAW

TESTING FOR PARASITIC DRAW










NOTE:
For a more accurate current draw reading, wait 20 minutes to make sure all modules have powered down before continuing. Some modules may stay powered up longer than others.






188270


Turn the ignition off.


1.
Disconnect the Negative battery cable (ground).





2.
Using a multimeter, set the multimeter leads up to properly measure Amperage.





3.
Connect the ground lead that is plugged into the COM port of the multimeter to the Negative battery post/terminal.





4.
Connect the other lead of the multimeter that is plugged into the Amp port of the multimeter to the Negative battery cable.





CAUTION:
Do not crank the engine or turn on any accessories that may draw more than 10 Amps. You may open the protective fuse in the multimeter.





5.
While monitoring the amperage reading on the multimeter, begin to remove fuses (one at a time) from each fuse location on the vehicle and see if the amperage drops.






NOTE:
http://wayalife.com/PicExportError Only remove one fuse at a time until the cause of the voltage draw is determined.
http://wayalife.com/PicExportError Many vehicles have multiple fuse locations on the vehicle.





6.
If the amperage does not drop, install the fuse you just removed and remove the next fuse.




Does the amperage drop to between 0.02 to 0.04 of an Amp when removing any fuses?

Yes


http://wayalife.com/PicExportError Use the wiring diagram as a guide to help indicate what components or modules are powered by the fuse.
http://wayalife.com/PicExportError At this point you can install the fuse and begin disconnecting the components powered by the fuse.
When the amperage drops after disconnecting a component this will indicate which component is at fault.
It is important to know how long some modules are designed to remain awake.
You don't want to replace a component that is operating normally.
The condition that originally caused the draw may not be present at this time.

No


http://wayalife.com/PicExportError The condition that originally caused the draw may not be present at this time.
http://wayalife.com/PicExportError Look for any chafed, pierced, pinched, or partially broken wires.
http://wayalife.com/PicExportError Look for broken, bent, pushed out or corroded ground terminals.
http://wayalife.com/PicExportError Perform any Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) that may apply.

Cadima
07-06-2016, 05:25 PM
Just wanted to update this thread with new info I found.

1) To refresh, my '13 JKU was draining my battery if left to sit long.
2) I noticed the vent dampers inside my jeep would cycle every 4 minutes 12 seconds.
3) I tracked the current drain to the HVAC module inside the jeep (was fuse M11 or M13 I believe, cant recall exactly).
4) My jeep would NOT fall asleep, even after sitting overnight. The root cause in my jeep of the battery drain was in the HVAC Module never shutting down.
5) Disconnecting the battery and reconnecting would stop the drain until I drove it again, yet removing the fuse that handled the current drain did not reset anything.
6) I wondered if re-flashing my power tune would affect it. I reflashed from the "93 Octane" tune to the "91 Octane" tune and there was no change.
6) In preparing it for the dealer to look at, I gave the ECU a factory reset using my Superchips traildash. Normally I run the max power tune.

For some reason, doing this factory reset eliminated the problem. I questioned whether it was due to the tune or what, so I reflashed it to the original 93 octane max power tune. Alas, the gremlins are still gone.:thinking:

So it would appear, without more experimenting, that I somehow got a bad flash. Just starting over appears to have fixed my issue. I'll need a lot more time to feel certain the gremlins are gone for good and I'm not sure why or how, but thought this info may help others.